ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags police issues , police misconduct charges

Reply
Old 25th June 2019, 10:45 AM   #1121
Dancing David
Penultimate Amazing
 
Dancing David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: central Illinois
Posts: 39,699
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
Yes, all reasonable human temperatures, it does just fine, how shock proof does it really need to be?

I know how bad you want to be right, but you're wrong. Like, extremely wrong. Not only can a camera be tiny, one piece, and easily record a whole shift at a reasonable video resolution, but it would be even easier and cheaper to attach a tiny CCD camera to an external battery/storage held on/in an officer's belt.

Also, and this may shock you right to your core, police officers are already wearing these kinds of cameras.
I am not fighting, just giving the list of why


Not even mentioning the archival problem.
__________________
I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn
And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch
You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager
Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar
Dancing David is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 10:50 AM   #1122
Dancing David
Penultimate Amazing
 
Dancing David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: central Illinois
Posts: 39,699
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
I have, actually quite a lot. Was kind of a hobby of mine for a while, recording, recompressing, and storing videos. With h.264/AVC standard of video encoding 720p HD video looks pretty good at 2GB/hour, like hardly any noticeable compression artifacts. With the latest and greatest h.265/HEVC thats down to 1.5GB per hour. I got a dashcam for my car a few months, it'll record well over 100 hours before looping back on itself. It was around $200 which is midrange, its good enough that I can read a license plate on playback from probably 30 feet in front of me.
Cool, I wasn't sure about the 720p
__________________
I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn
And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch
You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager
Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar
Dancing David is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 11:33 AM   #1123
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
 
luchog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 15,595
Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
I am not fighting, just giving the list of why


Not even mentioning the archival problem.
Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Cool, I wasn't sure about the 720p

At 2Gb/hr of 720p video, a common 256Gb micro-SD card (available for under $50 at Amazon), will hold over 120 hours of video.

Not seeing any real problem here.

10TB hard drives are cheap, around $300-$350, so active storage is not really that big a problem. 100GB Blu-Ray discs are roughly 5$ each, and high-capacity data tape is a lot cheaper at 30-40 cents per TB for video storage (given a standard data tape capacity of 160TB and cost of $50 -- eg. the Sony SDLT 320), so long-term archival storage isn't really a significant expense either.

Pretty much all of the so-called "technical hurdles" and "expense" objections are nonsense dredged up by police unions and departments to avoid accountability.

ETA: The average police officer works 40 hours a week, same as anyone else. Of a 40 hour week, approximately 30 hours can be expected to be on video (not including paperwork, breaks, etc.). So for long-term archival storage on the most expensive option, BD-XL blu-ray discs, that's roughly $5 for three weeks' worth of video, or $7 a month per officer at the high end, well under $100 per year per officer. Compare that to the average officer's rookie starting salary, which where I live is $75,000 a year. Also compare to the millions paid by PDs every year to fight or settle lawsuits brought against officers for use-of-force complaints and other constitutional rights violations.

Again, it's all smoke and mirrors to avoid accountability.
__________________
"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams
"The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf
"Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon

Last edited by luchog; 25th June 2019 at 12:51 PM.
luchog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 11:43 AM   #1124
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,677
Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
I am not fighting, just giving the list of why
And demonstrating that every problem you list is already solved. As a bonus, they're not solved like "we don't care how much it costs," they're solved like "we can order these things right now with bulk commodity pricing."

Quote:
Not even mentioning the archival problem.
What archival problem? Long-term storage is even cheaper per GB than the memory cards that are used in the cameras. Tag every day's output with badge number and date, back up the date regularly, and discard old, unneeded data regularly. Data required to be retained for specific evidentiary purposes would be stored separately.


ETA: As luchog says above.

Last edited by Babbylonian; 25th June 2019 at 11:44 AM.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 12:58 PM   #1125
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,085
Isn't it actually the case that video, where it exists, on the whole supports the police in disputes? So in the end, cost/benefit tradeoff favors the police.

The problem of course is the cost. With bodycam, sometimes the police will lose. And that is unacceptable. Because without bodycam, it is one word against the other. Police usually win that, too. So better to not have any record and take your chancrs
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 01:01 PM   #1126
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,729
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Isn't it actually the case that video, where it exists, on the whole supports the police in disputes? So in the end, cost/benefit tradeoff favors the police.
Who knows? Where is there a broad analysis of the footage? And then you have cases like Philando Castile where how do you even rate that?
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 01:11 PM   #1127
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
 
luchog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 15,595
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Isn't it actually the case that video, where it exists, on the whole supports the police in disputes? So in the end, cost/benefit tradeoff favors the police.

The problem of course is the cost. With bodycam, sometimes the police will lose. And that is unacceptable. Because without bodycam, it is one word against the other. Police usually win that, too. So better to not have any record and take your chancrs

The problem with that is, even when there is video showing clear wrongdoing by police, the officers involved generally get off scot-free, or with barely a wrist-slap. It's extremely rare that police officers are held accountable for their actions, regardless of the evidence available.
__________________
"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams
"The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf
"Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon
luchog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 01:29 PM   #1128
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,677
Originally Posted by luchog View Post
The problem with that is, even when there is video showing clear wrongdoing by police, the officers involved generally get off scot-free, or with barely a wrist-slap. It's extremely rare that police officers are held accountable for their actions, regardless of the evidence available.
The thing is that they can't count on that as time passes. The more incidents documented on video and then publicized, the less likely juries will be to accept lame cop excuses. This outcome is already inevitable given the proliferation of smartphones and cheap CCTV security systems. When police unions resist always-on body cameras, they're trying to delay this inevitability.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 01:47 PM   #1129
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
 
luchog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 15,595
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
The thing is that they can't count on that as time passes. The more incidents documented on video and then publicized, the less likely juries will be to accept lame cop excuses. This outcome is already inevitable given the proliferation of smartphones and cheap CCTV security systems. When police unions resist always-on body cameras, they're trying to delay this inevitability.

That sounds all well and good, but the evidence continues to say otherwise.
__________________
"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams
"The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf
"Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon
luchog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 01:51 PM   #1130
Dancing David
Penultimate Amazing
 
Dancing David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: central Illinois
Posts: 39,699
Originally Posted by luchog View Post

Again, it's all smoke and mirrors to avoid accountability.
No doubt, much less raising taxes
__________________
I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn
And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch
You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager
Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar
Dancing David is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 01:52 PM   #1131
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,677
Originally Posted by luchog View Post
That sounds all well and good, but the evidence continues to say otherwise.
I agree. It may just be my naturally optimistic, Pollyanna-type nature coming through.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 01:55 PM   #1132
Dancing David
Penultimate Amazing
 
Dancing David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: central Illinois
Posts: 39,699
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post

What archival problem?
Access to the data by outside requestors, and adding meta data for ease of access, it was another hurdle when the ACLU was trying to get to LAPD's body cam archives.

They were forced to open the archives and immediately stated, 'too many hours' to sort and access requested footage, there has been discussion of trying to crowd source it
__________________
I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn
And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch
You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager
Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar
Dancing David is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 02:09 PM   #1133
Babbylonian
Penultimate Amazing
 
Babbylonian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 11,677
Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Access to the data by outside requestors, and adding meta data for ease of access, it was another hurdle when the ACLU was trying to get to LAPD's body cam archives.

They were forced to open the archives and immediately stated, 'too many hours' to sort and access requested footage, there has been discussion of trying to crowd source it
The fact that an organization doesn't bother to properly organize records doesn't mean that it's not possible to properly organize records. If a police department can't manage that, it means there is a need for personnel changes. It doesn't mean police shouldn't be wearing bodycams.

When I started working for the American Red Cross in Portland in 1989, their recordkeeping practices were straight-up shameful, even for the time when paper records were the standard. By the time I left 7 years later, it would have taken no more than an hour or two to train someone to find any patient/blood donor data which was required to be available. In the 21st century, nobody (especially a large police department with significant administrative support) has any ******* excuse to be so sloppy.
Babbylonian is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 03:12 PM   #1134
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
 
luchog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 15,595
Originally Posted by Dancing David View Post
Access to the data by outside requestors, and adding meta data for ease of access, it was another hurdle when the ACLU was trying to get to LAPD's body cam archives.

They were forced to open the archives and immediately stated, 'too many hours' to sort and access requested footage, there has been discussion of trying to crowd source it
Originally Posted by Babbylonian View Post
The fact that an organization doesn't bother to properly organize records doesn't mean that it's not possible to properly organize records. If a police department can't manage that, it means there is a need for personnel changes. It doesn't mean police shouldn't be wearing bodycams.
(snippage)
In the 21st century, nobody (especially a large police department with significant administrative support) has any ******* excuse to be so sloppy.

The LAPD's video dump, like the Seattle PD's attempt to do the same, is nothing but a delaying tactic. And it's very, very old tactic that existed long before electronic media existed.

Someone demands records as part of a court case or outside accountability program, the PD or other organization then just dumps a warehouse full of unorganized data on them. Boxes and boxes of random crap with the data they want supposedly hidden in there somewhere. Whether it's video or paper the effect is the same, the targets get so bogged down they either have to deal with mountains of work they don't have the personnel to handle, or they just give up. In either case, the result is the same, accountability attempts are stymied and rendered ineffective.

There is no reason that someone should not be able to come up to the department, provide some combination of date, time, and officer name, and get a video that contains the incident in question. All that's needed is a database program that catalogs it all, with a convenient interface. I have such a database program on my mobile, for organizing my DVD/Blu-Ray collection. It cost me $12.
__________________
"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams
"The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf
"Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon
luchog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 06:08 PM   #1135
Grizzly Adams
Graduate Poster
 
Grizzly Adams's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,212
Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
"The publication reports that Irby’s husband rammed his car into the back of his wife’s vehicle after the hearing, citing police documents. Police said Irby called local authorities shortly after the incident “uncontrollably crying and advised that she was in fear for her life.”

Police reportedly arrested Irby’s husband on charges of aggravated battery after the incident. According to HuffPost, Irby had previously received protective orders against her husband.

Irby’s husband was reportedly released from police custody a day after his arrest. He was later reportedly ordered by a judge turn over the firearms in his possession as a condition of his pretrial release.

That’s when Irby reportedly went to her husband’s home to retrieve his firearms and hand them over to police because she said “he wasn’t going to turn them in.” But once Irby arrived at the local Lakeland Police Department, she was arrested for the act after police said she admitted to burglary and theft."


https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...ter-saying-she

Well that shows who the police find more sympathetic, the domestic abuser of course.
No, it shows that the police recognize that the alleged abuser still has rights and those rights were violated. It was up to her husband to turn in his guns. It was not up to her to burglarize his home and steal his property.
Grizzly Adams is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th June 2019, 06:48 PM   #1136
Lambchops
Graduate Poster
 
Lambchops's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Norvegr
Posts: 1,361
ACAB
__________________
Your grandchildren will be brown, trans, and Islamo-Communist.
Lambchops is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th June 2019, 09:00 AM   #1137
Dancing David
Penultimate Amazing
 
Dancing David's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: central Illinois
Posts: 39,699
Originally Posted by luchog View Post
The LAPD's video dump, like the Seattle PD's attempt to do the same, is nothing but a delaying tactic. And it's very, very old tactic that existed long before electronic media existed.
BINGO!
__________________
I suspect you are a sandwich, metaphorically speaking. -Donn
And a shot rang out. Now Space is doing time... -Ben Burch
You built the toilet - don't complain when people crap in it. _Kid Eager
Never underestimate the power of the Random Number God. More of evolutionary history is His doing than people think. - Dinwar
Dancing David is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th June 2019, 06:03 PM   #1138
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 23,758
Originally Posted by luchog View Post
The LAPD's video dump, like the Seattle PD's attempt to do the same, is nothing but a delaying tactic. And it's very, very old tactic that existed long before electronic media existed.

Someone demands records as part of a court case or outside accountability program, the PD or other organization then just dumps a warehouse full of unorganized data on them. Boxes and boxes of random crap with the data they want supposedly hidden in there somewhere. Whether it's video or paper the effect is the same, the targets get so bogged down they either have to deal with mountains of work they don't have the personnel to handle, or they just give up. In either case, the result is the same, accountability attempts are stymied and rendered ineffective.
Alex Jones's legal team just recently attempted this very tactic against the Sandy Hook parents who are suing him; they attempted to overwhelm plaintiffs' counsel with a huge dump of raw email metadata. In Jones's case, the tactic hilariously backfired when child pornography was found with the email dump.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2019, 01:19 AM   #1139
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,747
I find this so sad. The young man is clearly trying to keep his cool (And, to hie credit does. (I'd have got myself shot. Except I'm white) but looks like he's had enough of this ****.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9SZlypyK-4
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2019, 01:33 AM   #1140
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,582
What Mayor Pete Couldn’t Fix About the South Bend Cops
Quote:
The fatal shooting that derailed Pete Buttigieg’s campaign this week has a 7-year backstory.
BTW, I learned from this article that not only was the body cam turned off, but so was the dash cam in the police cruiser. This guy really didn't want his actions to be caught on camera. He also has a "history".

Quote:
The shooting has exposed a lingering and bitter conflict between South Bend’s black community and a predominantly white police department—a department that has grown only whiter since Buttigieg became mayor in 2012. As mayor, Buttigieg, who has pledged transparency and professionalism, sometimes seemed to make matters worse. Three months into his first term, he forced out the city’s first black police chief, who had been accused of illegally recording his officers, some of whom were said to have made racist remarks; since then, there have been a number of controversies with racial overtones—violent confrontations between police and minority residents, and lawsuits by black officers alleging that Buttigieg’s handpicked police chiefs engaged in racially discriminatory behavior. The officers involved in the shooting and its aftermath each have been accused multiple times of using excessive force against black people.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2019, 06:12 AM   #1141
Wudang
BOFH
 
Wudang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: People's Republic of South Yorkshire
Posts: 11,735
Apologies if this hasn't posted before - I skimmed the last few pages.


https://www.acluct.org/en/cases/pica...-jacobi-barone


ACLU Conneticut case where police don't realize the camera they've just taken off a guy is recording as they discuss how to trump up charges against him.
__________________
"Your deepest pools, like your deepest politicians and philosophers, often turn out more shallow than expected." Walter Scott.
Wudang is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2019, 08:05 AM   #1142
pgwenthold
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 18,085
Originally Posted by Wudang View Post
Apologies if this hasn't posted before - I skimmed the last few pages.


https://www.acluct.org/en/cases/pica...-jacobi-barone


ACLU Conneticut case where police don't realize the camera they've just taken off a guy is recording as they discuss how to trump up charges against him.
Raise your hand if you are stupid enough to think this is an isolated occurrence.
__________________
"As your friend, I have to be honest with you: I don't care about you or your problems" - Chloe, Secret Life of Pets
pgwenthold is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2019, 04:53 PM   #1143
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,545
Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Raise your hand if you are stupid enough to think this is an isolated occurrence.

Three cops at once, filming themselves unaware with the victim's illegally confiscated camera while plotting to break more laws probably is.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd July 2019, 03:46 PM   #1144
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 20,782
^^Nicely put
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd July 2019, 07:10 PM   #1145
qayak
Penultimate Amazing
 
qayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,439
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Three cops at once, filming themselves unaware with the victim's illegally confiscated camera while plotting to break more laws probably is.
Pretty assuredly isn't. Three cops and not one of them a "good" cop. That's 100%. I have yet to run into the mythological "good" cop. That is a cop that upholds the law when it comes to fellow officers. No . . . wait! I remember about 15 years ago there was a female cop who blew the whistle on her partner who pulled his gun and held it to a dentist's head over a claimed traffic violation. (The dentist was black.)

Of course, she's no longer a cop even though her partner was convicted. Funny how the union stood up for the convict and not for the "good" cop.
__________________
"How long you live, how high you fly
The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry
And all you touch, and all you see
Is all your life will ever be."

Last edited by qayak; 2nd July 2019 at 08:23 PM.
qayak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd July 2019, 09:57 PM   #1146
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 21,855
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Three cops at once, filming themselves unaware with the victim's illegally confiscated camera while plotting to break more laws probably is.
Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Pretty assuredly isn't. Three cops and not one of them a "good" cop. That's 100%. I have yet to run into the mythological "good" cop. That is a cop that upholds the law when it comes to fellow officers. No . . . wait! I remember about 15 years ago there was a female cop who blew the whistle on her partner who pulled his gun and held it to a dentist's head over a claimed traffic violation. (The dentist was black.)

Of course, she's no longer a cop even though her partner was convicted. Funny how the union stood up for the convict and not for the "good" cop.
I think he meant it was the accidentally filming themselves part that was unusual.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 2nd July 2019, 10:19 PM   #1147
qayak
Penultimate Amazing
 
qayak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 13,439
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
I think he meant it was the accidentally filming themselves part that was unusual.
Yeah. I was more focused on the post he was responding too. Rereading I agree with your take.
__________________
"How long you live, how high you fly
The smiles you'll give, and tears you'll cry
And all you touch, and all you see
Is all your life will ever be."
qayak is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th July 2019, 07:15 AM   #1148
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,147
A Florida cop planted meth on random drivers

Quote:
Wester, who was fired last September, was arrested Wednesday and charged with 52 counts of racketeering, false imprisonment, official misconduct, fabricating evidence and possession of controlled substances, among other charges. He’s accused of indiscriminately targeting innocent drivers and hauling them off to jail after planting meth or marijuana in their vehicles while feigning a “search."

“There is no question that Wester’s crimes were deliberate and that his actions put innocent people in jail,”
Quote:
At least 119 cases involving Wester have been dropped, the Tallahassee Democrat reported. In addition to the dropped charges, Circuit Judge Christopher Patterson ordered at least eight inmates released from correctional facilities last fall, as 263 cases remained under review.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...rests-scandal/
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th July 2019, 07:35 AM   #1149
lobosrul5
Graduate Poster
 
lobosrul5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,726
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
A Florida cop planted meth on random drivers





https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...rests-scandal/
If a cop asks to search your car, always say "no". Of course they can always just say "but I smell pot and search it anyways". But its some small protection.
lobosrul5 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th July 2019, 07:51 AM   #1150
The Greater Fool
Illuminator
 
The Greater Fool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA, North America, Earth, Sol, Milky Way
Posts: 3,865
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
If a cop asks to search your car, always say "no". Of course they can always just say "but I smell pot and search it anyways". But its some small protection.
In this case, the cop would find what he 'smells', so it's not protection when you are dealing with a corrupt cop.
__________________
- "Who is the greater fool? The fool? Or the one arguing with the fool?" [Various; Uknown]
- "The only way to win is not to play." [Tsig quoting 'War Games']
The Greater Fool is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th July 2019, 07:54 AM   #1151
lobosrul5
Graduate Poster
 
lobosrul5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,726
Originally Posted by The Greater Fool View Post
In this case, the cop would find what he 'smells', so it's not protection when you are dealing with a corrupt cop.
Bizarrely, the article says he commonly said he smelled pot, but found meth.

Seriously, the county and maybe the state needs to have the absolute **** sued out of them and people lose their jobs over this.

"Wester, who joined the Jackson County Sheriff’s Office in 2016, fell under suspicion last year after a prosecutor noticed inconsistencies in what Wester wrote in his reports and what was captured on his body camera "

2016 is THREE years ago. People were still sitting in jail.
lobosrul5 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th July 2019, 08:05 AM   #1152
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 22,913
We already have an entire thread on drug-planter Wester.

Police Officer Using Slight-of-Hand to plant drugs

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=332038
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th July 2019, 08:40 AM   #1153
CORed
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Central City, Colorado, USA
Posts: 8,802
Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
If a cop asks to search your car, always say "no". Of course they can always just say "but I smell pot and search it anyways". But its some small protection.
If they search without your consent, you can at least challenge the legality of the search and possibly get evidence obtained (or planted) excluded. If you consent to the search, it's legal.

I find it rather strange that, in the US, cops are required to advise you of your 5th amendment rights not to incriminate yourself, but not our 4th amendment protection against illegal searh and seizure. Before they question you, the police have to advise you that "You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of Law ...". OTOH, "consent" to search usually goes something like,
"Are there any drugs or weapons in the car?"
"No".
"Mind if I take a look"?
"Okay".
CORed is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th July 2019, 09:31 AM   #1154
SuburbanTurkey
Graduate Poster
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 1,625
The joys of the broad application of qualified immunity when it comes to unreasonable police violence:

https://twitter.com/TimCushing/statu...99663297376256

tl;dr: Appeals Court extends qualified immunity to a cop who shot a child her had ordered to "lie on the ground" when he was trying to shoot the family dog, which was walking away from him.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th July 2019, 04:11 PM   #1155
Puppycow
Penultimate Amazing
 
Puppycow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 23,582
FBI investigating tattooed deputy gangs in Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department

There are actual gangs within the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department.

Quote:
The FBI is investigating a secret society of tattooed deputies in East Los Angeles as well as similar gang-like groups elsewhere within the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, multiple people familiar with the inquiry said.
The federal probe follows allegations of beatings and harassment by members of the Banditos, a group of deputies assigned to the Sheriff's Department's East L.A. station who brand themselves with matching tattoos of a skeleton outfitted with a sombrero, bandolier and pistol. The clique's members are accused by other deputies of using gang-like tactics to recruit young Latino deputies into their fold and retaliating against those who rebuff them.
Quote:
In particular, the sources said, agents have been trying to determine whether leaders of the Banditos require or encourage aspiring members to commit criminal acts, such as planting evidence or writing false incident reports, to secure membership in the group.
And this is not apparently the only one:
Quote:
The agents also have inquired about other groups known to exist in the department, which has nearly 10,000 deputies and polices large swaths of the sprawling county. They have asked for information about the tattoos and practices of the Spartans and Regulators in the department's Century station, and the Reapers, who operate out of a station in South Los Angeles, according to the sources.
__________________
A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool.
William Shakespeare
Puppycow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th July 2019, 02:35 PM   #1156
luchog
Neo-Post-Retro-Revivalist
 
luchog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The Emerald City
Posts: 15,595
Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
FBI investigating tattooed deputy gangs in Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department

There are actual gangs within the Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department.

And this is not apparently the only one:

It's been well-known for a long time that police department have had a problem with street gangs (starting mainly with white biker gangs) infiltrating police departments. They started with sending their female associates to get hired on as clerical workers and provide intel on police activity; and have since graduated to sending their younger members to police academies to become officers. There's a huge problem with gang presence in large PDs in particular.
__________________
"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others." -- Douglas Adams
"The absence of evidence might indeed not be evidence of absence, but it's a pretty good start." -- PhantomWolf
"Let's see the buggers figure that one out." - John Lennon
luchog is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 05:30 AM   #1157
Myles
Thinker
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: from Nowhere
Posts: 170
Here are some rather polite and patient law enforcement officers. The tirade they endured contains some of the most offensive comments I have ever heard. This is definitely NSFW and I would not play it in front of a sailor either.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2rtlA-yy_w
Myles is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Today, 02:43 PM   #1158
The Common Potato
Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 41
Surrey Police show how it can be done. https://www.worthingherald.co.uk/new...ture-1-9000883 British Transport Police, maybe.

Last edited by The Common Potato; Today at 02:45 PM.
The Common Potato is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:24 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.