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Old 15th April 2019, 06:25 PM   #41
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So is Israel Folau going to be banished from the sport?

Israel Folau issued with code of conduct breach notice by Rugby Australia

Although his comments are utter rubbish, I feel more pity for him for his quaint beliefs than worry that his ravings will hurt anybody. He is like one of those crazy street preachers you sometimes see in a big city standing on the corner with a posterboard ranting about sins. They can usually just be ignored or mocked. Can they just cancel his contract, just like that? I imagine sponsors have already dropped him, which is great. I would not want to associate myself with him either. I guess it's just a bit of a shame to see a good player throw away his career like this. But he had been warned. I suppose he can't say that he wasn't told that this would be the result if he continued this nonsense.
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Old 15th April 2019, 06:46 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Interesting question. I wonder if ending celebrityism would actually be an improvement.

It's a naturally occurring phenomenon, something people just end up doing when left to their own devices. It's probably an expression of some deep-seated fact of human nature. Try to suppress it, and it'll just come out in other ways. Try to get rid of it, and the cure would likely be worse than the disease.

Kind of like how the Soviet Union tried to control the marketplace, and ended up with a metric ass-ton of extra human suffering, plus a black market because people needed a marketplace anyway regardless of what was "for their own good".

I didn't mean that we should forcefully end it. I just wonder what it would take for enough people to finally "get it" and move away from it. It's probably impossible.

But then some people like myself have no interest in celebrities. I don't think they or anyone else are worthy of being idolized. So it is possible for people to think the whole thing is stupid, just not enough people do. There are too many stupid people.

People made Paris Hilton a celebrity, so I don't see that any progress can be made anytime soon. Every time a Rosie O'Donnell or a Scott Baio, Madonna, DeNiro, Samuel L open their mouth about social or political issues you just know they're going to say something stupid. It should be enough to convince people but it isn't.

The fact that people can sit through ten minutes of commercials that insult their intelligence just so they can watch twenty minutes of "Third Rock" says it all to me.
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Old 16th April 2019, 02:39 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
I didn't mean that we should forcefully end it. I just wonder what it would take for enough people to finally "get it" and move away from it. It's probably impossible.

But then some people like myself have no interest in celebrities. I don't think they or anyone else are worthy of being idolized. So it is possible for people to think the whole thing is stupid, just not enough people do. There are too many stupid people.

People made Paris Hilton a celebrity, so I don't see that any progress can be made anytime soon. Every time a Rosie O'Donnell or a Scott Baio, Madonna, DeNiro, Samuel L open their mouth about social or political issues you just know they're going to say something stupid. It should be enough to convince people but it isn't.

The fact that people can sit through ten minutes of commercials that insult their intelligence just so they can watch twenty minutes of "Third Rock" says it all to me.

We seem to be on the same page here.

The problem is so very many just cruise through there lives without doing much thinking themselves, and look to celebrities to do this for them. Perhaps we should be encouraging curiosity in the young.
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Old 16th April 2019, 03:21 PM   #44
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It's weird though, the ones that are saying everyone is going to hell, are going to hell by their very own buttered toast that is the bible.
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Old 16th April 2019, 08:02 PM   #45
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So now this Israel dude is going to challenge the decision to show him the door. Should be interesting.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-04-...otice/11025196
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Old 18th April 2019, 02:45 AM   #46
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Oh, all the good ones are coming out in support of Folau.

Mundine, Hopoate, and now the hideous old homophobic bible-basher, Margaret Court.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...margaret-court

Some of these religious types should try actually reading the ******* bible before shooting their brainless mouths off.
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Old 18th April 2019, 03:34 AM   #47
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I love when giant musclemen who wear short shorts to play their full contact homoerotic sport have opinions on homosexuality. Tell me more of your opinions on the gays, sweetie, and could you flex a bit as you opine? Very nice.
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Old 18th April 2019, 05:58 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Every time a Rosie O'Donnell or a Scott Baio, Madonna, DeNiro, Samuel L open their mouth about social or political issues you just know they're going to say something stupid.

At least De Niro got better after having first agreed with Trump that vaccines cause autism. And I noticed some celebrities you seem to have missed: https://nordic.businessinsider.com/c...6-11?r=US&IR=T
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Old 18th April 2019, 02:29 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Oh, all the good ones are coming out in support of Folau.

Mundine, Hopoate, and now the hideous old homophobic bible-basher, Margaret Court.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...margaret-court

Some of these religious types should try actually reading the ******* bible before shooting their brainless mouths off.

Oh no doubt they read their ******* Bibles but I think they are dog eared on these pages:

Quote:
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination. (Leviticus 18:22)

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall surely be put to death; their blood is upon them. (Leviticus 20:13)

Margaret Court possibly has some divine inspiration working for her also, because she is condemning of lesbians who are taking over the tennis courts. No mention of lesbians in the Bible, but I guess Margaret can squeeze them into the picture also.
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Old 18th April 2019, 09:08 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
At least De Niro got better after having first agreed with Trump that vaccines cause autism. And I noticed some celebrities you seem to have missed: https://nordic.businessinsider.com/c...6-11?r=US&IR=T

Scott Baio supported Trump which is why I mentioned him. He's the only Trump supporter I could think of off the top of my head (sadly perhaps hah).

The Hollywood dorks are at it in full force since the Mueller report came out. It isn't bad enough that most Hollywood movies suck now, but we also have to see how idiotic and annoying the actors are too.

Remember when people expected Lady GaGa to talk crap about Trump during her Super Bowl halftime show and she didn't? Smart woman, she lost no fans that night and gained a lot of new ones.
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Old 19th April 2019, 07:15 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
<snip>

The Hollywood dorks are at it in full force since the Mueller report came out. It isn't bad enough that most Hollywood movies suck now, but we also have to see how idiotic and annoying the actors are too.

<snip>

Most Hollywood movies have always sucked.

The veils of time have mercifully spared most of us from having to endure all the dross.

As more time passes the same will certainly be true of the movies coming out now.

I expect the same is true of actors.
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Old 19th April 2019, 07:25 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Smart woman, she lost no fans that night and gained a lot of new ones.

I guess she's lost those again, but she may have won back the respect of the old ones:
Quote:
The 32-year-old halted her performance midway through the 2016 hit Million Reasons in order to address the ongoing shutdown of the U.S. government.
“There are people who live paycheque to paycheque and need their money,” she said.
“[Could] the ******* president of the United States please put our government back?” Gaga asked in front of a roaring crowd, who cheered and applauded.
Lady Gaga calls out Donald Trump, Mike Pence during Vegas show (Global News, Jan. 21, 2019)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 19th April 2019, 07:29 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I love when giant musclemen who wear short shorts to play their full contact homoerotic sport have opinions on homosexuality. Tell me more of your opinions on the gays, sweetie, and could you flex a bit as you opine? Very nice.

So if you were straight, would you go for the bimbos?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 19th April 2019, 07:31 AM   #54
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X = Amount I care about a celebrity's opinion.
X - 10 = Amount I care about someone's opinion as to the validity of a celebrity's opinion.
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Old 19th April 2019, 08:02 AM   #55
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I think I bought my first Dixie Chicks album fifteen years ago. I'd never heard of them before they criticized the war in Iraq.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 20th April 2019, 05:55 AM   #56
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And speaking of Robert De Niro:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE

(I only wish he had an actual argument. Not that he's wrong, but ...)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 20th April 2019, 02:54 PM   #57
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De Niro should shut his stupid mouth.

People like him attacking Trump do one thing only: harden and increase his support. I see dicks like De Niro attacking Trump and I'd be inclined to vote for him just to piss De Niro off, if I were American.

Great actor he might be, but he's a disgusting person who only smoothed over his antivax views because it threatened to destroy his legacy.

Remember, this is the bloke who tried to be very clever by offering a $100k prize to anyone who could prove vaccines work.

Rules decided by De Niro, of course.

The media needs to grow the hell up and not give guys like him a platform.
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Old 20th April 2019, 03:20 PM   #58
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What the OP doesn’t say is that Falou’s contract prohibits him from publicly making homophobic and similar slurs, and he has been warned about this in the past. So no sympathy whatsoever from me. He can believe in what he wants, but can’t broadcast hateful stuff.

A journalist asked what would happen if you wore a t-shirt to work with Falou’s words on it. I don’t know about others, but I would be sent home and told not to do it again. In Falou’s case he’s been told “yes, we know what you believe, but just wear a jacket while at work”.

He wouldn’t even do this. He will be sacked.
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Old 20th April 2019, 09:10 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
He will be sacked.
Even if he somehow managed to wriggle out and not get fired, Cheika is on record as saying he wouldn't pick Folau anyway, and he's not going to be able to force them.

The law is pretty clear, so I don't see any problem with the decision.

Nice to see him crying about it to the extent he's trying, though.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 08:36 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
In the news in Australia we have one Israel Folau, (a rugby champ), getting a lot of attention, as a result of expressing intolerant, religiously inspired, views about homosexuals and such. Simultaneously we have Anthony Mundine, (ex boxer), talking up anti vaccination.

I wonder why people give a damn what these guys views are on these topics. It annoys the crap out of me that it gets reported. Does being a rugby player or a boxer give a guy some special insight into these issues? These uninformed and bigoted views are not news.
Mundine is an actual imbecile, and I'm not sure if many people who aren't mentally challenged pay any actual attention to the things that he says. He once said something along the lines of the USA deserved 9/11, so yeah, imbecile. What's even funnier is he's a **** boxer and has been rightfully KO'd a few times.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:25 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Mundine is an actual imbecile, and I'm not sure if many people who aren't mentally challenged pay any actual attention to the things that he says. He once said something along the lines of the USA deserved 9/11, so yeah, imbecile. What's even funnier is he's a **** boxer and has been rightfully KO'd a few times.

Being KO'd and otherwise beaten around the head over the years, would hardly enhance his mental agility I would think. And yet he opens his mouth and his utterances find their way into print. Why is this so?
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:41 PM   #62
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Here's the thing. The utter near total saturation of information is a double edged sword.

It's near impossible to quarantine or censor an idea anymore. But by that same token is impossible to have information you're forced to listen to, unless one wants to invoke absurdist "OH GOD I BRIEFLY SAW A KARDASSIAN ON TV FOR .00004 PICOSECONDS WHILE CHANNEL SURFING!" nonsense.

So basically if you're complaining about having to listen to either celebrity opinions in general or a specific celebrity's opinion my answer... then stop going out of your way to listen to them. Problem solved.

Unless you're one of those people for whom seeking out things to get angry about is a core part of your psyche.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 01:59 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Here's the thing. The utter near total saturation of information is a double edged sword.

It's near impossible to quarantine or censor an idea anymore. But by that same token is impossible to have information you're forced to listen to, unless one wants to invoke absurdist "OH GOD I BRIEFLY SAW A KARDASSIAN ON TV FOR .00004 PICOSECONDS WHILE CHANNEL SURFING!" nonsense.

So basically if you're complaining about having to listen to either celebrity opinions in general or a specific celebrity's opinion my answer... then stop going out of your way to listen to them. Problem solved.

Unless you're one of those people for whom seeking out things to get angry about is a core part of your psyche.

Nah, that's not me at all ..... you?

Mind you you would have to be living under a rock to not hear about this crap being given media coverage. I'm talking about mainstream media here, the ABC of Australia, not some fringes rag.
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Old 22nd April 2019, 06:21 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Gilbert Syndrome View Post
Mundine is an actual imbecile,...

What's even funnier is he's a **** boxer and has been rightfully KO'd a few times.
You want to know something really funny? He's talking comeback at rugby league: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-20-years.html

With any luck, someone will break his neck in game 1.
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Old 23rd April 2019, 08:41 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
What the OP doesn’t say is that Falou’s contract prohibits him from publicly making homophobic and similar slurs, and he has been warned about this in the past. So no sympathy whatsoever from me. He can believe in what he wants, but can’t broadcast hateful stuff.

A journalist asked what would happen if you wore a t-shirt to work with Falou’s words on it. I don’t know about others, but I would be sent home and told not to do it again. In Falou’s case he’s been told “yes, we know what you believe, but just wear a jacket while at work”.

He wouldn’t even do this. He will be sacked.
If this is the criticism I have some sympathy with him, although I don't have any with his views on religion or sexuality.

Falou 'works' for 80 mins on a Saturday, along with times he is training and attending official functions. When can a rugby player step aside from that and express a personal opinion? It can't be right that to play rugby you are 24/7 denied the right to an opinion until you give up the game. There must, in my view, be an opportunity for a rugby player to put on civvies and to make a personal comment that is not seen as a statement on behalf of the ARFU.

If nothing else we will be able to spot the ********* earlier rather than feeding them loads of money and honours only to find out they are twats once they retire. See Margaret Court.
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Old 23rd April 2019, 08:48 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Mind you you would have to be living under a rock to not hear about this crap being given media coverage. I'm talking about mainstream media here, the ABC of Australia, not some fringes rag.
I will propose that "being made aware of" and "having to listen to in any meaningful sense" are different.

Again no you can't avoid celebrities, which includes their opinions, 100% but you not forced to listen to their opinions in anything but passing.

Again if our standards our "I've briefly been made aware of a celebrity's opinion in passing because it's become part of our social discourse for whatever reason" then no you will never escape "the opinions of celebrities" but that's a bit unreasonable to expect in my opinion.

You aren't forced to listen to celebrity opinions on any meaningful level and you certainly aren't required to care about them.

We also can't go to far and start getting mad at celebrities simply for having opinions or expecting to act "neutral" in all public scenarios. Their opinions should not be elevated above anyone else's, but neither should we expect them to be opinion-less automotons simply because they are in the public eye.
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Old 23rd April 2019, 02:46 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I will propose that "being made aware of" and "having to listen to in any meaningful sense" are different.

Again no you can't avoid celebrities, which includes their opinions, 100% but you not forced to listen to their opinions in anything but passing.

Again if our standards our "I've briefly been made aware of a celebrity's opinion in passing because it's become part of our social discourse for whatever reason" then no you will never escape "the opinions of celebrities" but that's a bit unreasonable to expect in my opinion.

You aren't forced to listen to celebrity opinions on any meaningful level and you certainly aren't required to care about them.

We also can't go to far and start getting mad at celebrities simply for having opinions or expecting to act "neutral" in all public scenarios. Their opinions should not be elevated above anyone else's, but neither should we expect them to be opinion-less automotons simply because they are in the public eye.

Seems like you are trying very hard to make some sort of argument here although Christ knows what it is.

The obvious point I am making, is it's absurd that the media report the utterances of these celebrities, regardless of the obvious lack of intellect behind them. It is also absurd that there are mindless fans who hang on every word these fools utter.
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Old 23rd April 2019, 05:16 PM   #68
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Are you sure you aren't only upset when a celebrity advocates for something you think is useless, stupid or don't support yourself?
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Old 23rd April 2019, 09:33 PM   #69
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Oh such penetrating perception ServiceSoon!

Mind you I am still waiting for a celebrity to make a statement that I endorse. I will let you know when that happens.
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Old 23rd April 2019, 09:36 PM   #70
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There are plenty of celebrities who use their celebrity status to champion progressive causes.
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Old 24th April 2019, 05:45 AM   #71
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The classy thing for celebrities to do is use their visibility to champion charitable causes rather than political ones. I don't give a damn what Jerry Lewis thought about letting Syrian refugees into the US. I do however admire his stellar work fundraising for muscular dystrophy research.
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Old 24th April 2019, 05:48 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
The classy thing for celebrities to do is use their visibility to champion charitable causes rather than political ones. I don't give a damn what Jerry Lewis thought about letting Syrian refugees into the US. I do however admire his stellar work fundraising for muscular dystrophy research.
Yep and why aids research should never be such a cause as it is political. See all the rage against lack of aids research and Reagan as a clear example.

So sick kids OK, kids in cages way to political for any celebrity.
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Old 24th April 2019, 06:33 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yep and why aids research should never be such a cause as it is political. See all the rage against lack of aids research and Reagan as a clear example.

So sick kids OK, kids in cages way to political for any celebrity.
One day I'll read a post of yours that isn't of the dog in a manger variety.
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Old 24th April 2019, 03:13 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
There are plenty of celebrities who use their celebrity status to champion progressive causes.

I have to hand it to you arth you've got me there.

Mind you I add the proviso that although I do condone a celebrity using his/her status to further a worthy cause I will be dismissive of their opinion about issues they have no expertise in. If they have such expertise, and better still, refer to studies supporting their stance, that's another story.
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Old 24th April 2019, 08:57 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
I have to hand it to you arth you've got me there.

Mind you I add the proviso that although I do condone a celebrity using his/her status to further a worthy cause I will be dismissive of their opinion about issues they have no expertise in. If they have such expertise, and better still, refer to studies supporting their stance, that's another story.

And this is where the political/non-political divide tends to weaken.

Is it unthinkable that an actor can become more and better informed about a political issue than a politician?

If they do, should they keep quiet on the subject simply because their platform derives from their celebrity as an actor rather than their celebrity as a politician?
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Old 25th April 2019, 02:06 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
And this is where the political/non-political divide tends to weaken.

Is it unthinkable that an actor can become more and better informed about a political issue than a politician?

If they do, should they keep quiet on the subject simply because their platform derives from their celebrity as an actor rather than their celebrity as a politician?

No of course it is possible for a celebrity to gain some expertise on a subject, and certainly become more learned than a politician - given the lack of intellectual depth of many politicians.

My point is that it should not be accepted as a given, that celebrities have some special insight that the average guy in the street doesn't.
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Old 25th April 2019, 03:46 PM   #77
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I don't think it's about them having a special insight. It's about them having a special connection with their audience.
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Old 25th April 2019, 07:17 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't think it's about them having a special insight. It's about them having a special connection with their audience.
Their audience has an imaginary relationship with the celebrity? That is concerning.
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Old 25th April 2019, 07:20 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by ServiceSoon View Post
Their audience has an imaginary relationship with the celebrity? That is concerning.
Yes, people do have a "relationship" (the word used was "connection" but anyway) with their favourite celebrities. Sometimes, people have unhealthy relationships with their favourite celebrities.
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Old 26th April 2019, 01:59 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I don't think it's about them having a special insight. It's about them having a special connection with their audience.

Oh wow really!

How is that a contradiction, and is not the special feeling the audience have for the celebrity the problem? A feeling that overrides any realistic assessment, about the celebrities expertise on a subject, as they slavishly follow the guidance of said celebrity.
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