ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags celebrity opinions

Reply
Old 30th June 2019, 12:20 AM   #161
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,545
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
So you also believe that the GoFundMe debacle has nothing to do with his continued publicity?

I have no idea what I wrote that gave you such an idea.

I suspect that you don't, either.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2019, 02:57 PM   #162
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 5,176
@ psion

Apart from my lack of comprehension regarding you responses to my posts, we now have the following examples from others. It would help if you paid a little more attention to what you post.


Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Not seeing why you quoted my post as you've not actually addressed anything in my post?
Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
I have no idea what I wrote that gave you such an idea.

I suspect that you don't, either.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2019, 05:34 PM   #163
Robin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,705
Personally I think that Folau should not be sacked for saying those things. RA can simply point out that the dumb things their footballers say on social media don't represent their views.

And I think we should get over being offended when someone says "Woo, woo, the bogeyman is going to get you if you are gay".
__________________
The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"
Robin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2019, 05:49 PM   #164
Robin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,705
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Having said this I think the 2 million he has raised is just as much a backlash over the way over top "Folau is evil, we must crush him" reaction from the hand wringing offended on behalf of others, virtue signalling, SJWs, than people that care about his actual case.
Remind me who said "Folau is evil, we must crush him".

As far as I know he was contractually bound to not make public statements which were discriminatory against minorities. He understood this and it had been reiterated to him, after which he deliberately went against it and after a hearing it was decided by contractual law experts that he had broken his contract.

We will find out when he gets to court whether an employer has the right to limit our speech in forums not directly connected with our employers.

But most of us are in the same boat. My employer has made it clear to us that they monitor our social media and would not hesitate to take disciplinary action, including possibly termination of employment if I were to make remarks that were discriminatory against minorities.

If someone in my company made racist, anti-semitic or homophobic remarks on social media (and I don't know of anyone here who would do so) they would probably be terminated straight away without the courtesy of the warning that Folau got.

If after a warning they posted the same racist, anti-semitic or homophobic remark then they would certainly be terminated.

So Folau is not being subjected to anything that the rest of us do not have to deal with, except that, unlike us, he has millions of dollars and supporters willing to give him millions more and the backing of powerful figures in the main stream media.

I do wonder if Folau's target had been Jews, Hindus or Sikh's whether the support for him would have been so strong.

Personally I don't think our employers should have the power to control our social media output, but I guess the good thing that comes out of these is that this power will get tested in court.
__________________
The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"

Last edited by Robin; 30th June 2019 at 05:50 PM.
Robin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2019, 06:06 PM   #165
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,691
Originally Posted by Robin View Post
And I think we should get over being offended when someone says "Woo, woo, the bogeyman is going to get you if you are gay".
One thing you need to factor into on this subject is that ARU's major sponsor is QANTAS, which is a very pro-LGBT company, with a gay CEO.

They made it very clear that ARU must not allow their players to carry on like that, which is why Folau got given the final warning.

Originally Posted by Robin View Post
Personally I don't think our employers should have the power to control our social media output, but I guess the good thing that comes out of these is that this power will get tested in court.
Long since tested and found to be reasonable.

Saying employees should be allowed to say what they like is a great theory, but in practice, it leads to people slagging off their boss or company in public.

Also, how about if you have staff that are proud members of NAMBLA, or the Aryan Brotherhood? You'd just let them post away as long as they didn't break the law?
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2019, 07:09 PM   #166
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 23,545
Originally Posted by Robin View Post
<snip>

I do wonder if Folau's target had been Jews, Hindus or Sikh's whether the support for him would have been so strong.

<snip>

Or Christians.
__________________
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep."

"Ninety percent of the politicians give the other ten percent a bad reputation."
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 30th June 2019, 09:10 PM   #167
psionl0
Skeptical about skeptics
 
psionl0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: 3157'S 11557'E
Posts: 14,556
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
@ psion

Apart from my lack of comprehension regarding you responses to my posts, we now have the following examples from others. It would help if you paid a little more attention to what you post.
Why do you expect me to do what you do not?

You took exception with a simple statement of fact simply because I was the one who posted it and you have been running away from it ever since. If others support you against me then it is reasonable to ask if they also support your POV.

And if you did a little reading yourself you would notice that others have responded to the posts that you quoted.
__________________
"The process by which banks create money is so simple that the mind is repelled. Where something so important is involved, a deeper mystery seems only decent." - Galbraith, 1975
psionl0 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2019, 01:19 PM   #168
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,691
Who cares about a celebrity's opinion, is possibly less relevant than "How much money can you make from people as a celebrity selling nonsense?"

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-festival.html

#Side note to Randi - if he's still alive - to have another go at getting "woo-woo" into OED, given the usage in a popular paper's headline.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2019, 03:19 PM   #169
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 5,176
Originally Posted by Robin View Post
Remind me who said "Folau is evil, we must crush him".

Snip

Personally I don't think our employers should have the power to control our social media output, but I guess the good thing that comes out of these is that this power will get tested in court.

Don't know if anyone made that "Folau is evil, we must crush him" statement although I guess it would have been implied by some. I would rather a cry of "Folau is stupid, we must laugh at him."

I wonder about religious zealots who condemn homosexuals with such venom. In order to see justice in this stance, they are compelled to believe that evil homosexuality is a choice. If not they must lay the blame on the creator for making them so.

Having met those having the mindset that gays choose to be gay. It confounds me because the evidence is clear that it is not so. I think you have to work at it with diligence to remain so ignorant.

Yes I agree folk should be free to post whatever crap they will on social media. Censorship is not the answer, education is.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2019, 03:25 PM   #170
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 5,176
Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Why do you expect me to do what you do not?

You took exception with a simple statement of fact simply because I was the one who posted it and you have been running away from it ever since. If others support you against me then it is reasonable to ask if they also support your POV.

And if you did a little reading yourself you would notice that others have responded to the posts that you quoted.

Another miss.

The problem is you're lack of comprehension of that which is posted, as well as your responses to that which is not posted. There are three of us here who have made this observation.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2019, 03:32 PM   #171
Robin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,705
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
One thing you need to factor into on this subject is that ARU's major sponsor is QANTAS, which is a very pro-LGBT company, with a gay CEO.

They made it very clear that ARU must not allow their players to carry on like that, which is why Folau got given the final warning.



Long since tested and found to be reasonable.

Saying employees should be allowed to say what they like is a great theory, but in practice, it leads to people slagging off their boss or company in public.

Also, how about if you have staff that are proud members of NAMBLA, or the Aryan Brotherhood? You'd just let them post away as long as they didn't break the law?
But what if the company announces that the new policy is to support one political party over another?

When I was younger I was told that I was jeopardising my job because I was reading a left-wing newspaper in the lunch room. Being young and free of commitments I could tell them to back off, but if I was older and had a family depending on me I would probably have had to comply.
__________________
The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"
Robin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2019, 04:47 PM   #172
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,691
Originally Posted by Robin View Post
But what if the company announces that the new policy is to support one political party over another?
No problem with that - private companies can make their own rules, as they should be able to. The owner dictates and people can decide to work there or not.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2019, 04:52 PM   #173
Robin
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,705
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
No problem with that - private companies can make their own rules, as they should be able to. The owner dictates and people can decide to work there or not.
Perhaps you didn't read to the end of my post.

Sent from my Moto C using Tapatalk
__________________
The non-theoretical character of metaphysics would not be in itself a defect; all arts have this non-theoretical character without thereby losing their high value for personal as well as for social life. The danger lies in the deceptive character of metaphysics; it gives the illusion of knowledge without actually giving any knowledge. This is the reason why we reject it. - Rudolf Carnap "Philosophy and Logical Syntax"
Robin is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 1st July 2019, 05:58 PM   #174
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,691
Originally Posted by Robin View Post
Perhaps you didn't read to the end of my post.
Yeah I did. I didn;t comment on it, because it would have just repeated what I'd posted.

Originally Posted by Robin View Post
When I was younger I was told that I was jeopardising my job because I was reading a left-wing newspaper in the lunch room. Being young and free of commitments I could tell them to back off, but if I was older and had a family depending on me I would probably have had to comply.
Fine by me. The employer's a dick, and you have the choice of working there or not.

What's wrong with that?
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 3rd July 2019, 06:17 PM   #175
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 5,176
It seems to me that critiques of Folau have missed an opportunity here. If he, Folau, is trying to impress us with what a pillar of virtue he is, can any other examples of his exemplary character be found. Philanthropy perhaps? Is he a blood donor maybe?
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2019, 02:18 PM   #176
The Atheist
The Grammar Tyrant
 
The Atheist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 22,691
Perfect answer here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...f-a-sydney-pub

I'll be in Sydney is a couple of months - feel free to come and have a beer with me at that pub. I'll let you know when.
__________________
The point of equilibrium has passed; satire and current events are now indistinguishable.
The Atheist is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2019, 02:38 PM   #177
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 5,176
Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Perfect answer here: https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...f-a-sydney-pub

I'll be in Sydney is a couple of months - feel free to come and have a beer with me at that pub. I'll let you know when.

Love that mural!

Possible I may be in Sydney about then. Would like to get a selfie in front of that mural.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2019, 05:29 PM   #178
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 35,659
Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
It seems to me that critiques of Folau have missed an opportunity here. If he, Folau, is trying to impress us with what a pillar of virtue he is, can any other examples of his exemplary character be found. Philanthropy perhaps? Is he a blood donor maybe?
If he's a blood donor, would that change your opinion of him?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 5th July 2019, 05:50 PM   #179
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 5,176
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If he's a blood donor, would that change your opinion of him?

It would most certainly soften my somewhat negative opinion of him, sure.
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th July 2019, 02:14 PM   #180
Thor 2
Philosopher
 
Thor 2's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Brisbane, Aust.
Posts: 5,176
Senator Penny Wong has weighed into the debate about Folau's prediction, regarding future Hell dwellers.

Quote:
Labor senator Penny Wong has used Q&A to deliver an emotional response to Israel Folau's social media commentary, saying: "I wish that public figures, politicians, sporting stars etc. might consider for a moment … where their words land in vulnerable Australians before they speak them."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-...n-q&a/11290650

Pondering on this, I wonder what effect this would have, on Folau fans. Would he lose some of his lustre perhaps, or would his ball playing skills, trump any attack on his credibility?
__________________
Thinking is a faith hazard.

Last edited by Thor 2; 9th July 2019 at 02:15 PM.
Thor 2 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:57 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.