ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 13th June 2019, 07:00 AM   #1
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,116
Oil Tankers on Fire off Iran coast.

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-...ntl/index.html

Two tankers apparently have been struck, possibly by shells. Everything right now is preliminary reports.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 08:15 AM   #2
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,145
Reports I was reading initially seemed more like a mine.

Video seems to show flames near the waterline amidships which would suggest something in the water.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-48619771

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 13th June 2019 at 08:17 AM.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 08:37 AM   #3
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 35,635
Oil tankers on fire off the shoulder of Iran? What's next? Radar beams, glittering in the dark at Ormuz Strait?

---

More seriously, kookbreaker: Would it kill you to link to the factual news report, instead of CNN's opinion piece about it?

I don't give a **** about how CNN thinks the issue should be framed, or whatever. But I would like to get some sense of what the actual facts are. Anyway, for those who are interested:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/13/middl...ntl/index.html
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 08:50 AM   #4
Ryokan
Insert something funny here
 
Ryokan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Norway
Posts: 10,008
One of the ships was Norwegian.

Reports here are that it was hit by a torpedo.
Ryokan is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 08:51 AM   #5
Belz...
Fiend God
 
Belz...'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: In the details
Posts: 82,551
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Oil tankers on fire off the shoulder of Iran?
Nice.
__________________
Master of the Shining Darkness

"My views are nonsense. So what?" - BobTheCoward


Belz... is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 09:06 AM   #6
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 20,778
The BBC says one was carrying napatha and the other carrying methanol (which surprised me).

Still unclear as to the causes of the explosions.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-48619771

ETA: It said that torpedoes had been mentioned, but there was also conflicting info
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending

Last edited by jimbob; 13th June 2019 at 09:51 AM.
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 09:22 AM   #7
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,018
b has titled his piece on the incident "Today's Attacks On Ships In The Gulf Of Oman Are Not In Iran's Interest", but after some digging and a relevant update he added " - Or Are They?" to the title.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 09:24 AM   #8
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 21,848
[ct mode] Obviously a false flag so Trump can go to war with Iran. [/ct mode]
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 09:41 AM   #9
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,145
It's a slow ramping up by someone. there were incidents earlier in the month involving attacks of shipping off UAE, a drone attack on Saudi oil infrastructure and ships burning in an Iranian port.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 09:42 AM   #10
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,145
Originally Posted by Ryokan View Post
One of the ships was Norwegian.

Reports here are that it was hit by a torpedo.
I doubt it, a torpedo would have made a lot more mess. I would guess a charge placed against the hull by a diver or a floating 'mine'
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 09:44 AM   #11
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 23,758
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
More seriously, kookbreaker: Would it kill you to link to the factual news report, instead of CNN's opinion piece about it?

I don't give a **** about how CNN thinks the issue should be framed, or whatever. But I would like to get some sense of what the actual facts are. Anyway, for those who are interested:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/13/middl...ntl/index.html
The link in kookbreaker's post doesn't seem to lead to an opinion piece.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 09:49 AM   #12
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,116
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Oil tankers on fire off the shoulder of Iran? What's next? Radar beams, glittering in the dark at Ormuz Strait?

---

More seriously, kookbreaker: Would it kill you to link to the factual news report, instead of CNN's opinion piece about it?

I don't give a **** about how CNN thinks the issue should be framed, or whatever. But I would like to get some sense of what the actual facts are. Anyway, for those who are interested:

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/13/middl...ntl/index.html
My link is an aggregate link of CNN reports with a timeline. I don't know where you got 'opinion piece' unless an opinion piece was on the timeline. As of this post the 'Opinoins' CNN seem to be expressing are:

"Photos show damaged oil tanker Front Altair in the Gulf of Oman"
"What you need to know about the apparent vessel attack "
"UN Security Council will meet about the attacks at 4 p.m. ET"
"Iran will get the blame, but the Gulf of Oman truth is likely a lot murkier"
"Video purports to show tanker ablaze in Gulf of Oman"

I'm guessing the highlighted piece was on top when you clicked (it wasn't when I posted). If so I do not take responsibility for your unwillingness to scroll down.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 09:54 AM   #13
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 35,635
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The link in kookbreaker's post doesn't seem to lead to an opinion piece.
My mistake. I'd scrolled down the page to Perhaps the top story was the section headed "Iran will get the blame, but the Gulf of Oman truth is likely a lot murkier" and I mistakenly understood that to be the bulk of the reporting at that link.

I'm sorry, kookbreaker. I take it back.

Last edited by theprestige; 13th June 2019 at 09:56 AM.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 09:57 AM   #14
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 35,635
Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
My link is an aggregate link of CNN reports with a timeline. I don't know where you got 'opinion piece' unless an opinion piece was on the timeline. As of this post the 'Opinoins' CNN seem to be expressing are:

"Photos show damaged oil tanker Front Altair in the Gulf of Oman"
"What you need to know about the apparent vessel attack "
"UN Security Council will meet about the attacks at 4 p.m. ET"
"Iran will get the blame, but the Gulf of Oman truth is likely a lot murkier"
"Video purports to show tanker ablaze in Gulf of Oman"

I'm guessing the highlighted piece was on top when you clicked (it wasn't when I posted). If so I do not take responsibility for your unwillingness to scroll down.
It's not that I was unwilling to scroll down. It's that I didn't realize that the page you'd linked to was a rolling aggregate of CNN's reporting so far, and that there was other material to scroll down to.

Again, this was my mistake. I apologize.

You can probably tell I spend very little time on CNN.com.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 10:06 AM   #15
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,116
Understood. Apology accepted.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 10:45 AM   #16
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 23,758
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Reports I was reading initially seemed more like a mine.
The latest breaking is a statement by the US Navy that the USS Bainbridge once it arrived spotted an unexploded limpet mine stuck to the side of one of the attacked ships.

Limpet mines are magnetic. As far as I know, they typically are not simply left to float around for ships to randomly run into; they are deliberately attached to targeted ships by divers.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002

Last edited by Checkmite; 13th June 2019 at 10:50 AM.
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 11:04 AM   #17
Francesca R
Girl
 
Francesca R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: London EC1
Posts: 18,296
Is this similar to attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion?

/sorry

ETA oops dammit ninja'd quite a while ago

Last edited by Francesca R; 13th June 2019 at 11:05 AM.
Francesca R is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 12:13 PM   #18
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,145
Pompeo says Iran is responsible for the attacks.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 12:24 PM   #19
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 23,758
Of course he does; Trump is jonesing for a war with Iran the same way W Bush wanted a war with Iraq.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 12:26 PM   #20
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 20,778
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Pompeo says Iran is responsible for the attacks.
I'd have thought it a bit early to say unless there is very convincing intelligence.

I suppose that with the war in Yemen, Iran could close both the Red sea and the Gulf to Saudi tankers, but that seems a very risky path given the current tensions.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 12:35 PM   #21
ponderingturtle
Orthogonal Vector
 
ponderingturtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 46,727
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I'd have thought it a bit early to say unless there is very convincing intelligence.

I suppose that with the war in Yemen, Iran could close both the Red sea and the Gulf to Saudi tankers, but that seems a very risky path given the current tensions.
Bah you can't trust those know nothings in the CIA why they think Russia influenced the elections! No we can rest assured that intelligence will have nothing to do with what that US government decides happened.
__________________
Sufficiently advanced Woo is indistinguishable from Parody
"There shall be no *poofing* in science" Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Force ***** on reasons back" Ben Franklin
ponderingturtle is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 12:44 PM   #22
Mumbles
Philosopher
 
Mumbles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 7,012
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I'd have thought it a bit early to say unless there is very convincing intelligence.
5 hours is extremely fast to make a full assessment, I'd say.

Not at all fast to simply lie about it - particularly for a guy who is far behind in polls, is clearly flailing about, and lies like the combover on his head, and has previously stated that his immediate predecessor would attack Iran in order to boost his sagging poll numbers.
Mumbles is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 01:05 PM   #23
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,181
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Not at all fast to simply lie about it - particularly for a guy who is far behind in polls, is clearly flailing about, and lies like the combover on his head, and has previously stated that his immediate predecessor would attack Iran in order to boost his sagging poll numbers.
One problem for Trump however is that the attacks were not on American ships. (One was owned by Norway, the other by Japan. And I don't think any of the crews were American) That may make it a little bit harder to whip up support for a war.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 01:12 PM   #24
kookbreaker
Evil Fokker
 
kookbreaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 12,116
Yea, Trump is dreaming of a Grenada situation to save him.
__________________
www.spectrum-scientifics.com <- My store of science toys, instruments and general fun!

Thanks for helping me win Best Toys in Philly Voter in 2011,2012, and 2014! We won' be discussing the disappointment that was 2013.
kookbreaker is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 01:18 PM   #25
Distracted1
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 2,892
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
One problem for Trump however is that the attacks were not on American ships. (One was owned by Norway, the other by Japan. And I don't think any of the crews were American) That may make it a little bit harder to whip up support for a war.
When were we attacked directly by Iraq?

I think his bigger issue is that there has been no recent 9/11 type of event. Congress people will have less to fear from opposing a war with Iran than they had in 2003.
__________________
The man with one watch knows what time it is, the man with two watches is never sure.

Last edited by Distracted1; 13th June 2019 at 01:21 PM.
Distracted1 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 01:27 PM   #26
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,145
Trump Tweets

It is the assessment of the U.S. government that Iran is responsible for today's attacks in the Gulf of Oman
@StateDept @SecPompeo
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 01:39 PM   #27
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 35,635
One wonders what Iran's end game is, for this one.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 01:43 PM   #28
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 49,521
I suspect Saudi Arabia, in the Billiard Room, with the Revolver.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 01:50 PM   #29
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 35,635
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I suspect Saudi Arabia, in the Billiard Room, with the Revolver.
Why?
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 02:04 PM   #30
Drewbot
Philosopher
 
Drewbot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 7,029
North Korea trying to influence the Japanese meeting with Iran, would be a legit bet.
__________________
"I dont call that evolution, I call that the survival of the fittest." - Bulletmaker
"I thought skeptics would usually point towards a hoax rather than a group being duped." - makaya325
Kit is not a skeptic. He is a former Bigfoot believer that changed his position to that of non believer.- Crowlogic
Drewbot is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 02:04 PM   #31
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,145
In less than 24 hours he knows it was Iran blowing up tankers but Kashoggi killed inside a Saudi Embassy he still can’t confirm.

(As someone observed on Twitter)
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 02:09 PM   #32
jimbob
Uncritical "thinker"
 
jimbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 20,778
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why?
They certainly would benefit from the US fighting Iran.

The new crown prince doesn't seem to be too bothered by diplomatic niceties like not murdering the citizens of their major ally.

The Saudis know that this administration seems to be looking for an excuse for some level of military action so might not be too rigorous in investigating who was behind the attack.

Against that, Iran has been attacking Saudi tankers, and with their proxies in Yemen has already closed the Gulf of Aden to Saudi Arabia so closing the Straits of Hormuz, would severely damage Saudi oil exporting capacity.
__________________
OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
jimbob is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 02:11 PM   #33
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 49,521
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why?
Because they'd have more to gain from a US vs Iran conflict than Iran would. We could bust up Iran for them while they cheer from the sidelines (and finish off Yemen with our further assistance, I'm sure). And which is the one they really hate almost as much as they hate Iran? Qatar, isn't it? I'm sure SA would love to get us involved with that, too. And if SA and us were allies and friends against Evil Iran in actual war why, we'd forget all about how they went Ramsay Bolton on that guy.

I wouldn't trust Saudi Arabia further than I could throw up. Iran may hate us for several excellent reasons but at least they're openly hostile instead of being slimy backstabbers.
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 02:19 PM   #34
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 23,758
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

It is the assessment of the U.S. government that Iran is responsible for today's attacks in the Gulf of Oman
@StateDept @SecPompeo
It is also the assessment of the U.S. government that Russia actively interfered with the 2016 U.S. presidential election.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 02:21 PM   #35
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 23,758
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why?
Saudi Arabia has been directly appealing to the United States to attack Iran militarily for years.
__________________
"¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 02:26 PM   #36
Planigale
Illuminator
 
Planigale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,118
Who benefits?

Not clearly Iran (although I could believe that Iran does not have control over elements of its paramilitary forces who might carry out an isolated attack, but these seem too co-ordinated to be some group freelancing).

Israel and Saudi both benefit from provoking the US into attacking Iran by a false flag incident. Both would avoid attacking US vessels or personnel, Iran would more likely attack US associated targets. Both Saudi and Israel could provide intelligence implicating Iran. In this sort of situation the question is how hard does the mark verify or are they prepared to accept what they want to believe.
Planigale is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 02:26 PM   #37
Michel H
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,701
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
One wonders what Iran's end game is, for this one.
They are probably exasperated by U.S. "sanctions", which are having a devastating effects on their economy, and they probably want these sanctions lifted.

At a more secondary, but perhaps more fundamental level, they probably also would like to see an end to the U.S. supported illegal Israeli occupations of East Jerusalem and the West Bank.
Michel H is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 02:40 PM   #38
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16,516
A Japanese-owned ship was attacked while the prime minister of Japan was in Tehran for a state visit.

Make of that what you will.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 02:43 PM   #39
Oystein
Penultimate Amazing
 
Oystein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 16,516
Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
...
At a more secondary, but perhaps more fundamental level, they probably also would like to see an end to the U.S. supported illegal Israeli occupations of East Jerusalem and the West Bank.
Iran has no fundamental interest in Jerusalem or the West Bank. That's merely a pot to be stirred by proxy and kept warm and bubbly for the foreseeable future. That's an Arab and Sunni land, so any game Iran is playing there is at most for emotions, not for fundamentals.
__________________
Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote)
Oystein is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 02:46 PM   #40
8enotto
Muse
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mexico
Posts: 771
Just a thought, but the products on those ships is used in refining oil. Not a byproduct of refined oil.

Those were inbound ships breaking the sanctions imposed by the US and others. Iran most certainly would want that cargo safe in port.

Who has motive to prevent it going in?
8enotto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:01 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.