ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 13th June 2019, 02:47 PM   #41
Segnosaur
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Posts: 13,186
Re: Iran's "End Game"...
Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
They are probably exasperated by U.S. "sanctions", which are having a devastating effects on their economy, and they probably want these sanctions lifted.

At a more secondary, but perhaps more fundamental level, they probably also would like to see an end to the U.S. supported illegal Israeli occupations of East Jerusalem and the West Bank.
They may want sanctions lifted, and they may want the end to the Israeli occupations. But attacking the tankers of 3rd party countries doesn't really seem to provide a way to accomplish those goals.
__________________
Trust me, I know what I'm doing. - Sledgehammer

I'm Mary Poppin's Y'all! - Yondu

We are Groot - Groot
Segnosaur is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 02:54 PM   #42
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 35,659
Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Yea, Trump is dreaming of a Grenada situation to save him.
This comes up every time there's an "emerging crisis". Oh, Trump must be needing this to distract from X. And then a week later it blows over and nothing ever comes of it.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 03:05 PM   #43
Michel H
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,701
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Iran has no fundamental interest in Jerusalem or the West Bank. That's merely a pot to be stirred by proxy and kept warm and bubbly for the foreseeable future. That's an Arab and Sunni land, so any game Iran is playing there is at most for emotions, not for fundamentals.
You should perhaps take a look at this wikipedia article:
Quote:
Quds Day (Jerusalem Day; Quds is the Arabic name for Jerusalem), officially called International Quds Day (Persian: روز جهانی قدس‎), is an annual event held on the last Friday of Ramadan that was initiated by the Islamic Republic of Iran in 1979 to express support for the Palestinians and oppose Zionism and Israel.
(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quds_Day)

Also, note that president Rouhani (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hassan_Rouhani) and foreign minister Zarif (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Javad_Zarif) are not the last narrow-minded idiots: Rouhani has a Ph.D. degree from a Scottish university, while Zarif holds similarly a Ph.D. degree from the University of Denver. His thesis was entitled, ironically perhaps: "Self-Defense in International Law and Policy".
Michel H is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 03:17 PM   #44
Michel H
Graduate Poster
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Belgium
Posts: 1,701
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Re: Iran's "End Game"...

They may want sanctions lifted, and they may want the end to the Israeli occupations. But attacking the tankers of 3rd party countries doesn't really seem to provide a way to accomplish those goals.
It is a very difficult and dangerous "game" for them (they seem to be trying to apply pressure, without going "a step too far", which would lead to a military confrontation), but I think a major problem with U.S. sanctions is that they seem in fact to be "supported" (in a way) by many countries, including Japan. This is why they are so harmful. There seems to be a general lack of awareness in the world about how harmful the U.S. is, particularly in Japan and (a little less) in Germany.
Michel H is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 04:09 PM   #45
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,147
Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post

Those were inbound ships breaking the sanctions imposed by the US and others. Iran most certainly would want that cargo safe in port.
What is your evidence for this?
What was the destination of the cargo>?
Where did it originate?

Are you claiming Japan is breaking US sanctions?
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 05:04 PM   #46
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,023
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
What was the destination of the cargo>?
Where did it originate?

The Kokuka Courageous carried Saudi-produced Methanol from there to Singapore. The Front Altair carried UAE-produced Naphtha from there to Taiwan.

Links in the MoA piece.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars

Last edited by Childlike Empress; 13th June 2019 at 05:07 PM.
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 05:17 PM   #47
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 22,914
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
...they are deliberately attached to targeted ships by divers.
How does a diver attach the limpet mine to a ship that is powering through the open ocean?
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 05:21 PM   #48
TragicMonkey
Poisoned Waffles
 
TragicMonkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Monkey
Posts: 49,526
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
How does a diver attach the limpet mine to a ship that is powering through the open ocean?
It's simpler if the diver is...a whale! Now we know what the Russians were up to!! IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!!!!
__________________
You added nothing to that conversation, Barbara.
TragicMonkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 05:28 PM   #49
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,023
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
How does a diver attach the limpet mine to a ship that is powering through the open ocean?

Both ships left their respective ports of Al Jubail (KSA) and Ruwais (UAE) on June 10th. I suspect they were quite static while the loading took place.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 06:32 PM   #50
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,147
Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The Kokuka Courageous carried Saudi-produced Methanol from there to Singapore. The Front Altair carried UAE-produced Naphtha from there to Taiwan.

Links in the MoA piece.
Exactly, no 'sanctions busting' as claimed in the previous post.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 06:33 PM   #51
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,147
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
How does a diver attach the limpet mine to a ship that is powering through the open ocean?
They were recently alongside at loading terminals and awaiting berths at anchor before that.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 06:49 PM   #52
Horatius
NWO Kitty Wrangler
 
Horatius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 27,157
Originally Posted by Michel H View Post
... but I think a major problem with U.S. sanctions is that they seem in fact to be "supported" (in a way) by many countries, including Japan. This is why they are so harmful. There seems to be a general lack of awareness in the world about how harmful the U.S. is, particularly in Japan and (a little less) in Germany.


But that's the thing here: Aside from Saudi Arabia and Israel, no one else really "supports" these sanctions. We were all happy with the Iran deal, and were pissed off when the US pulled out of that deal, and started re-imposing sanctions. We might have to go along with the US because they're threatening everyone who doesn't go along with their stupidity, but we'd all be happy if the US got their heads out of their asses on this issue.

So where exactly is the benefit to Iran in blowing up ships from countries that are already pissed off at the US? The only possible outcome of that is to just make them pissed off at Iran instead, and drive them into the arms of the US again.

For the first time in decades Iran has the support of a lot of western nations against the US. Why would they throw all that away?
__________________
Obviously, that means cats are indeed evil and that ownership or display of a feline is an overt declaration of one's affiliation with dark forces. - Cl1mh4224rd
Horatius is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 07:02 PM   #53
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 23,758
The US Navy claims that it watched, and recorded, an Iranian patrol boat coming up alongside the abandoned tanker, removing the limpet mine from its side and carrying it away. Reportedly this played a large part in informing Pompeo's decision to place responsibility for the attack on Iran.
__________________
"┐WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
┐A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 07:51 PM   #54
Doubt
Philosopher
 
Doubt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,996
Originally Posted by 8enotto View Post
Just a thought, but the products on those ships is used in refining oil. Not a byproduct of refined oil.

Those were inbound ships breaking the sanctions imposed by the US and others. Iran most certainly would want that cargo safe in port.

Who has motive to prevent it going in?
Naphtha is a product produced from oil. Commercial methanol is produced from natural gas.
__________________
Doubt world tour locations:

Detroit, Mexico, Detroit, Mexico....
Repeat for all of 2017 except when on vacation.
Doubt is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 08:18 PM   #55
Molinaro
Illuminator
 
Molinaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,394
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The US Navy claims that it watched, and recorded, an Iranian patrol boat coming up alongside the abandoned tanker, removing the limpet mine from its side and carrying it away. Reportedly this played a large part in informing Pompeo's decision to place responsibility for the attack on Iran.
The video is on CNN.
__________________
100% Cannuck!
Molinaro is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 08:27 PM   #56
8enotto
Muse
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mexico
Posts: 771
Originally Posted by Doubt View Post
Naphtha is a product produced from oil. Commercial methanol is produced from natural gas.
Thank you, I stand corrected.
8enotto is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 10:31 PM   #57
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 23,758
The video, for those who want a direct link:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


The footage looks to me to have been taken from quite high up and quite far away; I'm guessing perhaps from a drone, flying at a high enough altitude that the Iranian boat's crew was unaware of its presence. I'm not an expert in what limpet mines look like, but the crew of the boat definitely seems to be retrieving some object from the side of the ship's hull and then immediately leaving. To my knowledge, Iran has not publicly said anything about conducting an investigation, let alone retrieving evidence from the tankers; so this activity is highly suspicious at the very least.
__________________
"┐WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
┐A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 11:17 PM   #58
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,023
FARS News: Saudi Expert: Tankers Attack A UAE Plot against Iran

Originally Posted by Iranian state media
Hezam al-Hezam made the remarks after two Japan-related oil tankers were attacked in the Sea of Oman on Thursday Japan's prime minister was meeting top Iranian officials.

Writing on his twitter page, al-Hezam described the attacks as the UAE's plot against Iran.

"The UAE is playing with regional security after targeting the oil tankers in the Sea of Oman and therefore, it had declared a state of emergency before the incident. The reason is to make the US agree with military attack against Iran and win Oman and Pakistan's support," he added.

Hezam said that Iran is not na´ve to threaten shipping in the region through such an option, irrespective of the economic sanctions imposed on the nation.

He also referred to the incidents which happened for oil tankers in Fujaireh last month, and blamed Mohammed Dahlan, a senior advisor to UAE Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed, for them.

"I had told you in Ramadan that Abu Dhabi has inflamed war in the (Persian) Gulf with Riyadh's support. They think that (war) is a kids' game. Iran can annihilate the UAE only with a single retweet," Hezam said. [...]

Now I don't know who Hezam al-Hezam is, but one thing he is right about: It doesn't take much more than a "retweet" from Iran to turn all the nice glass palaces from Kuwait to Abu Dhabi on the southern banks of the Persian gulf into parking lots in the case of any serious attack on them. Which is why it won't happen despite all the posturing and provocations like this.
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th June 2019, 11:50 PM   #59
Childlike Empress
Ewige Blumenkraft
 
Childlike Empress's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Ivory Tower
Posts: 17,023
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

It is the assessment of the U.S. government that Iran is responsible for today's attacks in the Gulf of Oman
@StateDept @SecPompeo

You omitted the quotation marks (and the Pompeo video). Trump tweeted

Originally Posted by @realDonaldTrump
"It is the assessment of the U.S. government that Iran is responsible for today's attacks in the Gulf of Oman"
@StateDept @SecPompeo https://pic.twitter.com/sTIB0p1kCE

If you think this "service" is valuable, at least do it right. Pro-Tip: add links
__________________
Audiatur et altera pars
Childlike Empress is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 12:18 AM   #60
Planigale
Illuminator
 
Planigale's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,118
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The video, for those who want a direct link:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


The footage looks to me to have been taken from quite high up and quite far away; I'm guessing perhaps from a drone, flying at a high enough altitude that the Iranian boat's crew was unaware of its presence. I'm not an expert in what limpet mines look like, but the crew of the boat definitely seems to be retrieving some object from the side of the ship's hull and then immediately leaving. To my knowledge, Iran has not publicly said anything about conducting an investigation, let alone retrieving evidence from the tankers; so this activity is highly suspicious at the very least.
So what I see is plucky revolutionary guards risking their lives to remove a bomb from a ship while the US who clearly knew about the bomb since they were keeping it under observation did nothing about it.

No doubt Iranian scientists and engineers will be forensically examining the device and we may soon have some hard evidence about who manufactured and planted the bomb.
Planigale is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 12:59 AM   #61
a_unique_person
Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning
 
a_unique_person's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open.
Posts: 40,296
Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Yea, Trump is dreaming of a Grenada situation to save him.

If that's what he's after he should just invade Grenada again.
__________________
Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.
Everything is possible, but not everything is probable.
For if a man pretend to me that God hath spoken to him supernaturally, and immediately, and I make doubt of it, I cannot easily perceive what argument he can produce to oblige me to believe it. Hobbes
a_unique_person is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 01:12 AM   #62
Molinaro
Illuminator
 
Molinaro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,394
Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
So what I see is plucky revolutionary guards risking their lives to remove a bomb from a ship while the US who clearly knew about the bomb since they were keeping it under observation did nothing about it.
WHAT!?

Please explain how you have excluded the scenario where it was the Iranian boat that was being observed and they watched it approach the tanker and continued watching to see what it was doing.

And please remember that "because you really really really want it to be true" is not an explanation.
__________________
100% Cannuck!
Molinaro is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 02:18 AM   #63
uke2se
Penultimate Amazing
 
uke2se's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 12,927
Originally Posted by Molinaro View Post
WHAT!?

Please explain how you have excluded the scenario where it was the Iranian boat that was being observed and they watched it approach the tanker and continued watching to see what it was doing.

And please remember that "because you really really really want it to be true" is not an explanation.
I think the point is that Iranians removing a mine from a ship isn't evidence that Iranians placed a mine on a ship.

Then again, I don't know what other evidence the US has.
__________________
Before you say something stupid about climate change, check this list.

"If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. " Karl Popper, The Open Society and Its Enemies Vol. 1
uke2se is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 02:34 AM   #64
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,516
My guess is small, commerical (toy) drones with explosives - mostly because of the ability to target (unlike mines) and seemingly low yield.
__________________
Careful! That tree's bark is worse than its bite.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 02:35 AM   #65
Information Analyst
Philosopher
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 9,442
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The video, for those who want a direct link:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


The footage looks to me to have been taken from quite high up and quite far away; I'm guessing perhaps from a drone, flying at a high enough altitude that the Iranian boat's crew was unaware of its presence. I'm not an expert in what limpet mines look like, but the crew of the boat definitely seems to be retrieving some object from the side of the ship's hull and then immediately leaving. To my knowledge, Iran has not publicly said anything about conducting an investigation, let alone retrieving evidence from the tankers; so this activity is highly suspicious at the very least.
It looks to me like the selectively-edited tail end of a long sequence showing nothing more than the Iranian patrol boat picking up members of the tanker's crew - there are clearly far too many people on board to be patrol boat crew. I don't actually see any "removing" of anything going on, but wouldn't discount the patrol boat using a magnetic anchor on the side of the ship during the process of rescuing the crew members.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 14th June 2019 at 02:37 AM.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 02:41 AM   #66
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,147
Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
My guess is small, commerical (toy) drones with explosives - mostly because of the ability to target (unlike mines) and seemingly low yield.
A small commercial (toy) drone wouldn't carry enough explosive to penetrate a tanker hull. What do you think tankers are made of?
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 02:52 AM   #67
Checkmite
Skepticifimisticalationist
 
Checkmite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Gulf Coast
Posts: 23,758
Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
It looks to me like the selectively-edited tail end of a long sequence showing nothing more than the Iranian patrol boat picking up members of the tanker's crew
That seems rather unlikely, as there are no ropes or ladders on the side of the ship at the location of the patrol boat, and the boat is also directly against the ship's hull. So unless you imagine that the crew members were evacuating by simply leaping the rail and plummeting thirty feet from the tanker deck onto the hard deck of the boat waiting below, that doesn't seem to be what's going on here.

The patrol boat happens to be at the exact location where an earlier photograph of the ship shows some kind of object attached to the ship's hull:



And yet, when the patrol boat in the video pulls away from that spot, the object - whatever it is - is definitely not there anymore.
__________________
"┐WHAT KIND OF BIRD?
┐A PARANORMAL BIRD?"
--- Carlos S., 2002
Checkmite is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 03:19 AM   #68
Information Analyst
Philosopher
 
Information Analyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Besźel or Ul Qoma - not sure...
Posts: 9,442
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
That seems rather unlikely, as there are no ropes or ladders on the side of the ship at the location of the patrol boat, and the boat is also directly against the ship's hull. So unless you imagine that the crew members were evacuating by simply leaping the rail and plummeting thirty feet from the tanker deck onto the hard deck of the boat waiting below, that doesn't seem to be what's going on here.
No, I "imagine" that the video have had the start trimmed off to not show the actual rescue process and subsequently removing of any other equipment used.

Quote:
The patrol boat happens to be at the exact location where an earlier photograph of the ship shows some kind of object attached to the ship's hull:

https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/asse...xlarge-169.jpg

And yet, when the patrol boat in the video pulls away from that spot, the object - whatever it is - is definitely not there anymore.
Rather amazingly, the load line clearly seen in the video in the supposed "suspect area" has somehow vanished in the colour photo. Can't think how that could have happened...

Last edited by Information Analyst; 14th June 2019 at 03:21 AM.
Information Analyst is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 03:34 AM   #69
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,516
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
A small commercial (toy) drone wouldn't carry enough explosive to penetrate a tanker hull. What do you think tankers are made of?
You sure?
__________________
Careful! That tree's bark is worse than its bite.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 03:44 AM   #70
Tolls
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,673
What's that white marking above the alledged mine?
Tolls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 03:58 AM   #71
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,516
Why is the damage / possible mine so high above the water?
__________________
Careful! That tree's bark is worse than its bite.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 04:01 AM   #72
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,147
Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
What's that white marking above the alledged mine?
Berthing points and discharge point markings, the row of smaller white markings higher up mark where the actual valves are located.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 04:03 AM   #73
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,147
Di the Iranians rescue crews dierctly from the decks?
Reports say that there had been an abandon ship.
I know that if a tanker is on fire most crew are sent away in a boat as quickly as possible.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 04:21 AM   #74
Tolls
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,673
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Berthing points and discharge point markings, the row of smaller white markings higher up mark where the actual valves are located.
Ah right.
Ta.

Couldn't make out the shape of it (looked like a figure stood to attention at that angle, which made little sense).
Tolls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 05:11 AM   #75
Beerina
Sarcastic Conqueror of Notions
 
Beerina's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 29,495
Originally Posted by Molinaro
Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
So what I see is plucky revolutionary guards risking their lives to remove a bomb from a ship while the US who clearly knew about the bomb since they were keeping it under observation did nothing about it.
WHAT!?

Please explain how you have excluded the scenario where it was the Iranian boat that was being observed and they watched it approach the tanker and continued watching to see what it was doing.

And please remember that "because you really really really want it to be true" is not an explanation.

Perhaps he forgot his sarcasm markWP.
__________________
"Great innovations should not be forced [by way of] slender majorities." - Thomas Jefferson

The government should nationalize it! Socialized, single-payer video game development and sales now! More, cheaper, better games, right? Right?

Last edited by Beerina; 14th June 2019 at 05:13 AM.
Beerina is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 05:13 AM   #76
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 86,250
Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Perhaps he forgot his sarcasm mark.
I agree.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 06:01 AM   #77
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 22,914
Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I'm not an expert in what limpet mines look like, but the crew of the boat definitely seems to be retrieving some object from the side of the ship's hull and then immediately leaving.
It appears to be placed pretty far above the waterline. Would a diver have been able to put it up there while swimming in the water?

Also it seems to be visibly obvious. No attempt to hide it deeper below the waterline?
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 06:31 AM   #78
crescent
Illuminator
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,019
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It appears to be placed pretty far above the waterline. Would a diver have been able to put it up there while swimming in the water?

Also it seems to be visibly obvious. No attempt to hide it deeper below the waterline?
Did it leak after the first explosion? Losing some cargo might have made it sit higher in the water than it did when the bomb was attached.

This still seems very odd. Iran has little to gain and a lot to lose from doing this, and they must know that. Why place bombs that you know you'll be blamed for but then not take credit?

If Iran really did this, all I can think is that there is some sort of internal power struggle with some more extreme elements doing this without authorization from the actual government. I mean, if Iran really wants to do something it knows it will get blamed for, why not just use a missile? Why attack a Japanese ship when you are meeting with the Japanese government to try to improve relations with Japan?

This is all really odd. The Iranian government can be a bit crazy, but not at this level of poking an angry bear.
crescent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 06:32 AM   #79
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,147
I think that 'object' is part of the docking mechanism for loading and discharging cargo.
Most of the process is automated and requires sxact positioning.
It's too big and high to be a covertly placed limpet mine.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th June 2019, 06:32 AM   #80
Tolls
Illuminator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,673
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It appears to be placed pretty far above the waterline. Would a diver have been able to put it up there while swimming in the water?

Also it seems to be visibly obvious. No attempt to hide it deeper below the waterline?
Well, the thing marked as a hole is at the same level (give or take).
Tolls is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:48 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.