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Old 14th June 2019, 10:54 AM   #121
William Parcher
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Why would it be hard to hit the side of a tanker with anything?
Why are you asking me questions?
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Old 14th June 2019, 11:10 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I think that Katada doesn't understand the Americans' claim, which is not that the ship struck an underwater mine, but that a mine which had been magnetically attached to the hull detonated.

I'm not sure I need to explain how unlikely it is that the crew of the ship actually saw incoming bullets or artillery shells.
Given that Saudi has suffered drone attacks;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-48632420
it would seem possible that Houthi forces might launch drone attacks against ships this could be what the sailors saw.

The Houthi might not differentiate against particular tankers, they probably do not have the infrastructure to selectively target. So what might the big black triangle be? Some sought of targeting aid?

Sine Iran is allied to Houthi forces they might have an interest in trying to cover things up as they would be guilty by association even if they had known nothing and done nothing.
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Old 14th June 2019, 11:40 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Given that Saudi has suffered drone attacks;
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-48632420
it would seem possible that Houthi forces might launch drone attacks against ships this could be what the sailors saw.

The Houthi might not differentiate against particular tankers, they probably do not have the infrastructure to selectively target. So what might the big black triangle be? Some sought of targeting aid?

Sine Iran is allied to Houthi forces they might have an interest in trying to cover things up as they would be guilty by association even if they had known nothing and done nothing.

The Houthis are busy invading Saudi Arabia proper at the moment, incredibly brave given that they are mostly fighting with AK47's in flip-flops. This is happening in the mountains on the other side of the Arabian peninsula. I think it is completely bizarre to pretend that this is some highly sophisticated "proxy force" that somehow can operate with drones or mines in front of the Iranian coast. How did they get there, with their fishing boats?

At least blame the PMU or even Hezbollah if you have to theorize.
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Old 14th June 2019, 12:49 PM   #124
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Just a little illustration for the geography-challenged:



edit: Scale of the pic is about 2000 km (1250 miles) x 2000 km.
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Old 14th June 2019, 12:56 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
The Houthis are busy invading Saudi Arabia proper at the moment, incredibly brave given that they are mostly fighting with AK47's in flip-flops. This is happening in the mountains on the other side of the Arabian peninsula. I think it is completely bizarre to pretend that this is some highly sophisticated "proxy force" that somehow can operate with drones or mines in front of the Iranian coast. How did they get there, with their fishing boats?

At least blame the PMU or even Hezbollah if you have to theorize.
Yes, that's what I thought, glad you agree!
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Old 14th June 2019, 12:58 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I think that Katada doesn't understand the Americans' claim, which is not that the ship struck an underwater mine, but that a mine which had been magnetically attached to the hull detonated.
These are called limpet mines. Generally, the idea is to use divers to attach the mine below the water line. This makes it more likely to sink the ship and also lets you do it without detection.

But if you're trying to attach it to the ship while it's in motion, from another ship, you pretty much have to apply it above the water line.
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Old 14th June 2019, 01:15 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Don't harbor pilots use rope Ladders to get on and off ships at sea?

Could the flying objects seen by the crew have been dones or other aircraft, either watching to see if the limpet mines (if there really were any) go off, or just because there were already heightened tensions in the area which might result in increased military air traffic?

ETA: It seems unlikely that the ship's crew saw flying bullets.
Actually you can see shells in flight in the right circumstances. Against a sunset, I've seen bullets as small as .45 outbound.
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Old 14th June 2019, 01:23 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Incorrect; the black triangle is directly below the second pipe mark in a straight line, the same as the load line is directly below the third pipe mark. The "base" of the triangle is straight down from the left side of the second pipe mark.

The "black triangle" appears to be the shadowed side of a triangular object that protrudes from the hull, not the front-facing side of a wider object. The lighting would not make sense if that were the case.
That doesn't change the fact that the object - if it exists - must be unfeasibly large, and that it is clearly not visible in the (presumed deliberately) truncated video.

Also, where is the sun supposed to be to supposedly cast a shadow on the side of the ship, but nothing similar on the superstructure? Consider the photo posted by William Parcher in Post#92. The rears of both the bridge and the forecastle are clearly in shadow, so the sun is in front of ship, not behind it, and thus can't possibly have cast such a shadow on the hull.

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Old 14th June 2019, 01:29 PM   #129
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This is a version of the worst-case scenario for some of us. Do you believe the lying, corrupt administration when they tell you what happened here, especially since they obviously want to use it as a pretext for war? The POTUS has spent 2 years telling me how lying and corrupt and wrong our intel agencies are about Russian election interference, but now they must be right about Iranian mines?
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Old 14th June 2019, 01:31 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
That doesn't change the fact that the object - if it exists - must be unfeasibly large, and that it is clearly not visible in the (presumed deliberately) truncated video. Also, where is the sun supposed to be to supposedly cast a shadow on the side of the ship, but nothing similar on the superstructure?
Every surface on the ship facing backwards (toward the camera) in that photograph is in shadow.
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Old 14th June 2019, 01:36 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Every surface on the ship facing backwards (toward the camera) in that photograph is in shadow.
The other shadows are not remotely as dark as the black triangle. What exactly would be casting a solid black shadow on the hull?

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Old 14th June 2019, 01:39 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
This is a version of the worst-case scenario for some of us. Do you believe the lying, corrupt administration when they tell you what happened here, especially since they obviously want to use it as a pretext for war?
That doesn't withstand even elementary scrutiny. Why would Trump go to war over something where nobody got killed and the property damage wasn't even to US property, when he hasn't gone to war over revelations that Iran killed about 600 US service members in Iraq?

Quote:
The POTUS has spent 2 years telling me how lying and corrupt and wrong our intel agencies are about Russian election interference, but now they must be right about Iranian mines?
My understanding is that most of this info is coming from the military, not the CIA.
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Old 14th June 2019, 01:49 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
The other shadows are not remotely as dark as the black triangle. What example would be casting a solid black shadow on the hull?
The shadow is dark because the object is painted black. In the photograph posted in post #92, look at some of the rear-facing, black-painted surfaces at the very top of the superstructure; they are roughly the same color.

Also, the black object is no darker than the color of the shadowed portion of the side of the hull furthest back and closest to the waterline, which is also as dark as it is simply due to being painted black. The object's shadow simply looks exceptionally dark because it is completely surrounded by a large expanse of brightly-lit area.

Your nitpicks over the shadows in these photographs are simple mistakes reminiscent of those made by moon-landing denialists.
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Old 14th June 2019, 02:02 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
The shadow is dark because the object is painted black. In the photograph posted in post #92, look at some of the rear-facing, black-painted surfaces at the very top of the superstructure; they are roughly the same color.
Sorry, but that's utter nonsense. The only things on the rear of bridge that are that black are open doorways and air vents/grilles.

Quote:
Also, the black object is no darker than the color of the shadowed portion of the side of the hull furthest back and closest to the waterline, which is also as dark as it is simply due to being painted black. The object's shadow simply looks exceptionally dark because it is completely surrounded by a large expanse of brightly-lit area.
So where is it in the video? It's too big to not be visible.

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Old 14th June 2019, 02:03 PM   #135
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I find it hilarious that the day after the thread about deepfakes, the very next major event that comes up the conversation is all about how maybe we can't trust the video and photo evidence.
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Old 14th June 2019, 02:27 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
This comes up every time there's an "emerging crisis". Oh, Trump must be needing this to distract from X. And then a week later it blows over and nothing ever comes of it.
That's what narcissists do: Fabricate crises and then "solve" them for glory.
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Old 14th June 2019, 02:36 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by JihadJane View Post
That's what narcissists do: Fabricate crises and then "solve" them for glory.
With analysis like that, you should probably apply for membership in the Yale Group.
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Old 14th June 2019, 02:37 PM   #138
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A great article explaining why Iran, which has threatened to stop shipping of oil through the strait of Hormuz numerous times in the past, would lash out against international shipping:

Quote:
Faced with economic strangulation, Tehran has less and less to lose. Whether it was behind the tanker attacks or not, it had signalled its intention to make the rest of the world pay some of the price for US brinksmanship. The message from Iranian officials over the past two months has been that, if Iran could not export its oil through the Gulf, nor should other nations.

Tehran has also slapped down a nuclear ultimatum. If sanctions pressures are not significantly eased by 8 July, it will throw off some of the shackles of the 2015 nuclear deal, most importantly by raising the level at which it enriches uranium. That will ring alarm bells around the world, by cutting the time Iran would need to make a bomb.

Trump now appears to realise that the train he boarded is not heading to a glorious summit, but a potentially devastating conflict in the Gulf, and that some of his own officials, notably the national security adviser, John Bolton, are quite content – enthusiastic, even – to keep driving in that direction. Trump wants to get off and make a deal, but the Abe mission suggests he has no idea how to.

Iran, meanwhile, has found its strongest point of leverage – Trump’s fears about his chances of re-election against the backdrop of a new war in the Middle East. To play on those fears is a gamble with very high risks. Every cycle of escalation brings the region closer to a point where the slide towards war goes beyond anyone’s control.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...analysis-trump

Iran is much more likely to take out its aggression on vulnerable targets within its reach, and attack through its proxy forces, rather than directly attack the US. This was inevitable considering how uninterested the US has been in diplomatic dialogue.
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Old 14th June 2019, 02:38 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Sorry, but that's utter nonsense. The only things on the rear of bridge that are that black are open doorways and air vents/grilles.
The air vents are still black-painted surfaces that are the same color as the mystery object, which is the point.

Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
So where is it in the video? It's too big to not be visible.
Removed, allegedly by the people in the video who are working in that spot.

That is the entire crux of the allegation: the boat is adjacent to the hull next to the place where earlier photographs showed some kind of object attached to the hull. By the time the video starts this object is gone, but one of the sailors on the boat is seen pulling some heavy object away from the side of the boat and setting it down on the deck.

At the very beginning of the video, the location of the object on the hull is obscured by the squatting figure on the boat's forepeak. At about 0:06 in the video, a figure who from the perspective of the camera stands to the immediate left of the squatting man, steps forward and leans past him reaching toward the ship's hull, although what exactly he is doing there is also obscured by the body of the man on the forepeak. At 0:11, he starts to pull back and turn around, holding something with both hands below his waist level, as he steps down onto the deck of the boat from the edge rail. The boat immediately begins to back away from the side of the ship after this.

ETA: In the video when the boat pulls far enough away that the occupants are no longer casting a shadow over the area of interest, there appears to be a discolored spot on the hull where the alleged object used to be according to the photographs.
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Old 14th June 2019, 02:55 PM   #140
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Some more info from the DoD.

Same video as liveleak.


https://dod.defense.gov/News/Special...videoid=689676



Quote:
At 11:05 a.m. local time USS Bainbridge approaches the Dutch tug Coastal Ace, which had rescued the crew of twenty-one sailors from the M/T Kokuka Courageous who had abandoned their ship after discovering a probable
unexploded limpet mine on their hull following an initial explosion.
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Old 14th June 2019, 03:03 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
Some more info from the DoD.

Same video as liveleak.


https://dod.defense.gov/News/Special...videoid=689676
According to the timeline alleged by the DoD, the Iranian patrol boat doing whatever it's doing at the side of Kokuka Courageous, was doing it five hours after the Bainbridge had already received the entire crew of the Courageous from a Dutch vessel which had evacuated that crew hours before. The Iranian patrol boat could not be evacuating any crew members from the Kokuka Courageous.
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Old 14th June 2019, 03:15 PM   #142
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So the Kokuka had a single explosion blowing a hole way above the waterline and no fire. Just a hole there. Why did they evacuate? Did any of their crew or the Dutch rescuers notice the other unexploded triangular mine stuck there? It would seem like something they would see. Did they evacuate because they thought it could then explode at any time?
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Old 14th June 2019, 03:42 PM   #143
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Daily Mail now reports that Iran fired a missile at an American drone that was monitoring Iranian patrol boats. The missile missed. This happened before the ship explosions. I wonder if the seen flying object was the surface to air missile.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-lightly.html
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Old 14th June 2019, 03:48 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
So the Kokuka had a single explosion blowing a hole way above the waterline and no fire.

No, what we have from today's press conference of the owner, there were two incidents, "first near the engine room and then on its starboard side" as quoted by RT, with SPIEGEL adding that the owner claimed that three hours were between the two incidents. Caused by "flying objects".

I think this is much more credible than what apocalyptic nutjob Pompeo and his gang of creeps are saying and showing us in totally primitive photo-ops and video-cuts.
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Old 14th June 2019, 03:59 PM   #145
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Reported now that the US drone observed Iranian patrol boats closing in on the tankers. This was before the explosions. Then a missile is fired at the drone from one of the patrol boats. Then later the explosions happen.

Seems like these Iranian patrol boats may have attached the mines out there at sea while cruising alongside the tankers in stealth mode. Or maybe they launched the mines at the tankers? Or maybe they launched missiles at the tankers?
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Old 14th June 2019, 04:04 PM   #146
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From CNN...

Quote:
Prior to taking fire, the American MQ-9 drone observed Iranian vessels closing in on the tankers, the official added, though the source did not say whether the unmanned aircraft saw the boats conducting an actual attack.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/06/14/pol...ats/index.html
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Old 14th June 2019, 04:05 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Reported now that the US drone observed Iranian patrol boats closing in on the tankers. This was before the explosions. Then a missile is fired at the drone from one of the patrol boats. Then later the explosions happen.

Seems like these Iranian patrol boats may have attached the mines out there at sea while cruising alongside the tankers in stealth mode. Or maybe they launched the mines at the tankers? Or maybe they launched missiles at the tankers?
Don't multiply entities unnecessarily.

The Iranian boats attached the mines, attempted to drive off the drones, and the rest is a matter of record.
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Old 14th June 2019, 04:13 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Don't multiply entities unnecessarily.

The Iranian boats attached the mines, attempted to drive off the drones, and the rest is a matter of record.
It was somebody else who multiplied entities when they said "flying objects".

Was Iran using old fashioned cannonballs?

What was flying? Nothing flies when it's strictly mines being used, right?
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Old 14th June 2019, 04:14 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
So the Kokuka had a single explosion blowing a hole way above the waterline and no fire. Just a hole there. Why did they evacuate? Did any of their crew or the Dutch rescuers notice the other unexploded triangular mine stuck there? It would seem like something they would see. Did they evacuate because they thought it could then explode at any time?
they evacuated because their ship is potentially a huge bomb. It was full of methanol!
There had been an explosion on the ship's side and they thought there could be another.
Standard procedure to get all crew into the boat apart from the Skipper Chief Engineer and maybe the Mate and even they would be hovering by the slip.
Product tankers loaded with volatiles like methanol have a quick launch 'freefall' lifeboats that launch from on an inclined ramp. They are 'fireboats' designed to be completely sealed and able to survive a launch into burning liquid on the surface of the sea.

Like this
http://www.btmco.com.tr/wp-content/u...-and-Ramps.jpg
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Old 14th June 2019, 04:57 PM   #150
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There WAS a fire on the ship with the hole in it. The paint around the hole is very obviously fire-damaged. But the incidents happened after 9AM local, whereas the video of the Iranian patrol boat was taken at 5PM, more than eight hours later, long after the fire was out.
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Old 14th June 2019, 04:59 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
So the Kokuka had a single explosion blowing a hole way above the waterline and no fire. Just a hole there. Why did they evacuate? Did any of their crew or the Dutch rescuers notice the other unexploded triangular mine stuck there? It would seem like something they would see. Did they evacuate because they thought it could then explode at any time?
Check out DoD timeline here.

https://dod.defense.gov/News/Special...videoid=689676


Lot's of Russian trolls on Youtube. Although, I'm not sure why.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5rZeMqvZ9g

Last edited by Elagabalus; 14th June 2019 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 14th June 2019, 09:20 PM   #152
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This article provides some new information and references alleged readouts from the crews of the rescuing vessels as well as the attacked vessels.

Quote:
The intelligence reports obtained by CBS News on Friday include a readout from the crew of the Hyundai Dubai, an oil tanker that came to the rescue when the stricken Front Altair issued a distress call after an explosion on Thursday. The crew of the Norwegian-owned Altair came aboard the Hyundai Dubai, according to the detailed readout from the rescuing vessel's crew.

About 10 minutes later, the Hyundai Dubai "was surrounded by Iranian military vessels who demanded the Ship's Master turn over the M/V FRONT ALTAIR mariners," according to the readout.

The captain of the vessel contacted his company's management, which told him to refuse the Iranian request, but the readout says he "stated he felt like he had no choice but to comply with Iranian demands" and he did hand the Front Altair's crew over to the Iranian vessels. The sailors, most of them Russian and Filipino, were taken to Iran and remained in Iranian custody, the Front Altair's owner Frontline told Reuters on Friday.
Very important question: Why are the crew of the Front Altair still being held "in custody" by Iran, as the ship's owner has reported?

Quote:
The readout from the crew of the Kokuka said a Dutch vessel responded and positioned itself to inspect the damage to the tanker.

"The Dutch vessel reported to the Master an unusual object on the Starboard side, mid-ship, of the KOKUKA. The crew looked over the side and noticed an object they believed to be an explosive. Due to the ship carrying methanol and already suffering one explosion, the Master ordered the crew to abandon ship," according to the intelligence briefing.

The Dutch vessel took the sailors from the Kokuka aboard and moved to a safe distance.

The crew of an Iranian military vessel then asked the Dutch ship for permission to board, "so they could transfer personnel and render assistance to the crew. The Master of the KOKUKA spoke to the owner of his vessel and was instructed not to go aboard the Iranian vessel so he declined aid and thanked them."

The crew of the Dutch vessel and the Kokuka were able to see attached to the tanker, as they moved away from it, a "grey explosive," described as being about five feet wide and three feet tall, which the sailors said was protruding from the hull, three to six feet over the waterline.
This expressly claims that the Dutch vessel that rescued the Kokuka's crew was the first to spot the suspicious object on the side of the ship and relayed this information to Kokuka's captain, that it was the Kokuka's crew themselves who first suspected it was an explosive, and that the captain's decision to evacuate the ship was based on that suspicion. All of this took place before the American ship had even arrived at the scene.

Finally,

Quote:
A U.S. official told CBS News senior national security correspondent David Martin on Friday that the U.S. had a forensic team aboard the Kokuka Courageous as it was being towed to port. Parts of the magnet which held the mine to the ship were still attached to the tanker's hull.

The official told CBS News that a commercial tug boat was sent to tow the Front Altair to port also, but that Iranian Navy vessels were preventing it from tying up to the tanker.
The first can simply be dismissed as filthy American lies if desired; however the second is verifiable if true. Why was Iran trying to prevent the vessel from being towed?
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Old 14th June 2019, 09:30 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
So the Kokuka had a single explosion blowing a hole way above the waterline and no fire. Just a hole there. Why did they evacuate? Did any of their crew or the Dutch rescuers notice the other unexploded triangular mine stuck there? It would seem like something they would see. Did they evacuate because they thought it could then explode at any time?
It turns out - allegedly, that the answers to your questions are

1. Yes, their crew and the Dutch rescuers both noticed the other unexploded mine stuck there, and
2. They evacuated the ship because they thought it was an unexploded mine and they were worried it might still explode.
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Old 14th June 2019, 11:49 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This article provides some new information and references alleged readouts from the crews of the rescuing vessels as well as the attacked vessels.



Very important question: Why are the crew of the Front Altair still being held "in custody" by Iran, as the ship's owner has reported?



This expressly claims that the Dutch vessel that rescued the Kokuka's crew was the first to spot the suspicious object on the side of the ship and relayed this information to Kokuka's captain, that it was the Kokuka's crew themselves who first suspected it was an explosive, and that the captain's decision to evacuate the ship was based on that suspicion. All of this took place before the American ship had even arrived at the scene.

Finally,



The first can simply be dismissed as filthy American lies if desired; however the second is verifiable if true. Why was Iran trying to prevent the vessel from being towed?
Yup, I can see why the US were so quick to blame Iran
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 15th June 2019, 01:55 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
That is the entire crux of the allegation: the boat is adjacent to the hull next to the place where earlier photographs showed some kind of object attached to the hull. By the time the video starts this object is gone, but one of the sailors on the boat is seen pulling some heavy object away from the side of the boat and setting it down on the deck.
Contradictory claim is contradictory. And - yet again - the "object" in the colour image is far too big - about a metre wide/high/whatever - to somehow not be noticeable in the video. And - yet again - why don't we see the start of the video?

Quote:
At the very beginning of the video, the location of the object on the hull is obscured by the squatting figure on the boat's forepeak. At about 0:06 in the video, a figure who from the perspective of the camera stands to the immediate left of the squatting man, steps forward and leans past him reaching toward the ship's hull, although what exactly he is doing there is also obscured by the body of the man on the forepeak. At 0:11, he starts to pull back and turn around, holding something with both hands below his waist level, as he steps down onto the deck of the boat from the edge rail. The boat immediately begins to back away from the side of the ship after this.
All very nice wishful thinking, since whatever they're doing is not where the "object" either was or should have be.
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Old 15th June 2019, 02:01 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Product tankers loaded with volatiles like methanol have a quick launch 'freefall' lifeboats that launch from on an inclined ramp. They are 'fireboats' designed to be completely sealed and able to survive a launch into burning liquid on the surface of the sea.
Yes, one is clearly visible at the stern, unusued, in the "after-the-fact" photos.
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Old 15th June 2019, 02:04 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
There WAS a fire on the ship with the hole in it. The paint around the hole is very obviously fire-damaged. But the incidents happened after 9AM local, whereas the video of the Iranian patrol boat was taken at 5PM, more than eight hours later, long after the fire was out.
Eight hours in which the USN didn't manage to a) get better pictures of the "object," or b) recover it themselves.

Riiiiggghht...
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Old 15th June 2019, 02:12 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Quote:
The crew of the Dutch vessel and the Kokuka were able to see attached to the tanker, as they moved away from it, a "grey explosive," described as being about five feet wide and three feet tall, which the sailors said was protruding from the hull, three to six feet over the waterline.
Apart from the fact that's huge for a limpet mine and ridiculously high up, how could it not possibly be visible in the video?

Quote:
This expressly claims that the Dutch vessel that rescued the Kokuka's crew was the first to spot the suspicious object on the side of the ship and relayed this information to Kokuka's captain, that it was the Kokuka's crew themselves who first suspected it was an explosive, and that the captain's decision to evacuate the ship was based on that suspicion. All of this took place before the American ship had even arrived at the scene.
So why didn't they use the lifeboats?

Last edited by Information Analyst; 15th June 2019 at 02:16 AM.
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Old 15th June 2019, 02:21 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
This article provides some new information and references alleged readouts from the crews of the rescuing vessels as well as the attacked vessels.



Very important question: Why are the crew of the Front Altair still being held "in custody" by Iran, as the ship's owner has reported?



This expressly claims that the Dutch vessel that rescued the Kokuka's crew was the first to spot the suspicious object on the side of the ship and relayed this information to Kokuka's captain, that it was the Kokuka's crew themselves who first suspected it was an explosive, and that the captain's decision to evacuate the ship was based on that suspicion. All of this took place before the American ship had even arrived at the scene.

Finally,



The first can simply be dismissed as filthy American lies if desired; however the second is verifiable if true. Why was Iran trying to prevent the vessel from being towed?
I think in the US they would be termed material witnesses. If you make the assumption this is a conspiracy against Iran then interviewing the crew of a targeted ship makes sense.
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Old 15th June 2019, 02:22 AM   #160
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They didn't use the lifeboat because they were taken off by another ship, that is stated in the post you quoted.
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