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Old 8th July 2019, 10:11 AM   #1
applecorped
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White people pay double at Music Festival

https://news.sky.com/story/festival-...olour-11758249


A music and arts festival in Detroit is charging fans different prices depending on their skin colour.

The controversial pricing plan has led to one artist pulling out of the event, saying she was "enraged" by the policy.

The organisers of the AfroFuture Fest, set for 3-4 August, are charging lower rates for tickets bought by "people of colour" than for "non-people of colour".

Early bird tickets for "POC" were $10 and $20 for "Non-POC".






lol......POC indeed. What an unfortunate acronym
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Old 8th July 2019, 10:16 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Early bird tickets for "POC" were $10 and $20 for "Non-POC".
So how much would Rachel Dolezal have to pay? Can she pick her price? Are ticket categories even enforced (and if so, how), or is it an honor system? And did they think to run this by their lawyers first?
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Old 8th July 2019, 10:17 AM   #3
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That is stupid and low key embraces the colored categories invented by white people in this country, which are a mess.

It'll be interesting to see the faces of fans they consider as "non people of color".
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Old 8th July 2019, 10:18 AM   #4
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I get that things like this are specifically meant to be outrage producing, but even within that context I fail to see the point of stunts like this.
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Old 8th July 2019, 10:30 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I get that things like this are specifically meant to be outrage producing, but even within that context I fail to see the point of stunts like this.
Would you have heard of this event otherwise? Publicity!
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Old 8th July 2019, 10:32 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Would you have heard of this event otherwise? Publicity!
I don't know if the "There's no such thing as bad publicity" adage holds true anymore.
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Old 8th July 2019, 10:39 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
I don't know if the "There's no such thing as bad publicity" adage holds true anymore.
A minor price difference for a music festival ticket seems worth the criticism. It's still just $20. I suspect the most upset will be POC misidentified as white.
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Old 8th July 2019, 10:46 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
A minor price difference for a music festival ticket seems worth the criticism.
Will it seem worth the criticism when they get sued? A class action lawsuit by everyone who paid extra, plus those who didn't buy tickets because they would be overcharged, plus lawyer's fees, plus punitive damages... that's potentially a whole lotta hurt right there.
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Old 8th July 2019, 10:48 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
https://news.sky.com/story/festival-...olour-11758249


A music and arts festival in Detroit is charging fans different prices depending on their skin colour.

The controversial pricing plan has led to one artist pulling out of the event, saying she was "enraged" by the policy.

The organisers of the AfroFuture Fest, set for 3-4 August, are charging lower rates for tickets bought by "people of colour" than for "non-people of colour".

Early bird tickets for "POC" were $10 and $20 for "Non-POC".






lol......POC indeed. What an unfortunate acronym

Are “non-people of color” some sort of sovereign citizens or FOTLers?
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Old 8th July 2019, 10:53 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Mojo View Post
Are “non-people of color” some sort of sovereign citizens or FOTLers?
No but Progressives have been trying their damnedest for the last decade or so to make get the idea that the categories we have to worry about are "Straight, white, cis-males" and "everybody else" to catch on.

"Person of Color" as a way to make the divide between "White people" and "Literally everybody else" is just one symptom of that.

As noted it is sort of an effed up way of looking at things. Defining whole, multiple and diverse groups into one huge lumped together category defined by something that aren't.
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Old 8th July 2019, 10:59 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Will it seem worth the criticism when they get sued? A class action lawsuit by everyone who paid extra, plus those who didn't buy tickets because they would be overcharged, plus lawyer's fees, plus punitive damages... that's potentially a whole lotta hurt right there.
Threats of lawsuits are common, but actually putting one together isn't trivial, and then they'd have to actually win. Given that the damages would be ten bucks each if they even could establish harm and standing...still sounds pretty safe to me.
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Old 8th July 2019, 11:01 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No but Progressives have been trying their damnedest for the last decade or so to make get the idea that the categories we have to worry about are "Straight, white, cis-males" and "everybody else" to catch on.

“Person of Color" as a way to make the divide between "White people" and "Literally everybody else" is just one symptom of that.

Oh wow, the exact same divide that white racism has always been based on!

But I was asking about the non-people.
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Old 8th July 2019, 11:03 AM   #13
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Quote:
It was not immediately clear what the method was for confirming race and identity of ticket purchasers.
I would love to see a skin gradient chart at the entrance, and for local newscasters to send an African-American albino to pay the lower price.
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Old 8th July 2019, 11:05 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
No but Progressives have been trying their damnedest for the last decade or so to make get the idea that the categories we have to worry about are "Straight, white, cis-males" and "everybody else" to catch on.

"Person of Color" as a way to make the divide between "White people" and "Literally everybody else" is just one symptom of that.

As noted it is sort of an effed up way of looking at things. Defining whole, multiple and diverse groups into one huge lumped together category defined by something that aren't.
It's what's been going on for centuries, just seen from the other perspective. White people grouped everyone who wasn't white together and discriminated against them. It's hardly fair to insist that the victims of that discrimination can't associate together along the same lines.

Divide and conquer is pretty well known by now, so not everybody falls for it.
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Old 8th July 2019, 11:06 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Divide and conquer is pretty well known by now, so not everybody falls for it.
True and given people who barely tolerate each other a common enemy to outright hate has always been one of the most effective ways of doing that.
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Old 8th July 2019, 11:11 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It's what's been going on for centuries, just seen from the other perspective. White people grouped everyone who wasn't white together and discriminated against them. It's hardly fair to insist that the victims of that discrimination can't associate together along the same lines.

Divide and conquer is pretty well known by now, so not everybody falls for it.
Many "people of color" have repurposed that divide for their own agendas, but the racial/ethnic conversation was broken from the beginning and the polarity is still there.
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Old 8th July 2019, 12:02 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It's what's been going on for centuries, just seen from the other perspective. White people grouped everyone who wasn't white together and discriminated against them. It's hardly fair to insist that the victims of that discrimination can't associate together along the same lines.
The solution to discrimination is not more discrimination. If one wants to argue that discrimination shouldn't be a thing, then we need less of it, not more.
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Old 8th July 2019, 12:04 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Threats of lawsuits are common, but actually putting one together isn't trivial, and then they'd have to actually win. Given that the damages would be ten bucks each if they even could establish harm and standing...still sounds pretty safe to me.
Winning would be pretty easy, since this is clearly illegal discrimination. Harm and standing are obvious: if you paid more, you were harmed, and you have standing.

And lawyers fees are no joke.
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Old 8th July 2019, 12:07 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It's what's been going on for centuries, just seen from the other perspective. White people grouped everyone who wasn't white together and discriminated against them. It's hardly fair to insist that the victims of that discrimination can't associate together along the same lines.
Since white people are now legally prohibited from doing that, no, in fact, it's completely fair to insist that non-white people (most of whom were never subject to such discrimination themselves) be legally prohibited from doing it too.

Quote:
Divide and conquer is pretty well known by now, so not everybody falls for it.
But you just did.
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Old 8th July 2019, 12:16 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
non-white people (most of whom were never subject to such discrimination themselves)
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Old 8th July 2019, 12:19 PM   #21
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Wow, $10 or $20 for a music festival? The multiple Oz-Fests, Warped Tours, etc. that I've been too are way more expensive.

As to the rest, racism is bad no matter what race does it to any other race. It should never happen.
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Old 8th July 2019, 12:30 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I was very deliberate with my language. I didn't say *any* discrimination, I said *such* discrimination, meaning the specific form under discussion here.
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Old 8th July 2019, 12:33 PM   #23
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Regardless even if they personally and directly have experienced discrimination just charging an en-masse a X percent markup helps that... how exactly?

Again, not stupid. Know what exactly that "getting the whyte peeple worked up" is the point, but as a point I still fail to see the... point.
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Old 8th July 2019, 12:34 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I would love to see a skin gradient chart at the entrance, and for local newscasters to send an African-American albino to pay the lower price.

Poor Brother Zachary ...

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Old 8th July 2019, 12:41 PM   #25
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Apparently the pricing policy was changed before the OP...

Quote:
A music festival in Detroit that was charging double fees for white attendees is reversing course after a backlash that drew national attention.

Tickets for Afrofuture Fest were $40 (£32) for white people and $20 for "people of colour" - a term used in the US for racial minorities.

The disparity caused one performer to pull out and ticket website Eventbrite to threaten to remove the event page.

The policy was changed on Sunday after "threats from white supremacists".
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-48911917

Which doesn't excuse the racist policy (and likely unworkability) in the first place.

Quote:
"Often times when dope events happen in Detroit the cheapest tickets are bought and then sold by people not from the community because they can afford them first, leaving higher price tickets as the only options left."
If the intention is to make it more affordable for "the community" then make it cheaper for certain zip/postal codes.

Then again it's unlikely to be an issue:

Quote:
According to festival organisers, about 70 of the 200 total tickets have been sold
200 ? We'll have a bigger audience for our performance at the Chepstow Bandstand on Sunday afternoon if the weather holds.
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Old 8th July 2019, 12:47 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
200 ? We'll have a bigger audience for our performance at the Chepstow Bandstand on Sunday afternoon if the weather holds.
LoL in the words of the reporter from the Youtube video, "What the **** is that?"

That's not even enough to fill my backyard. I would struggle to call that a festival and if they're having an issue with people getting tickets, then there's a market for the product, and they need to get a bigger venue. Perhaps the gym of the local YMCA.
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Old 8th July 2019, 01:15 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
The solution to discrimination is not more discrimination. If one wants to argue that discrimination shouldn't be a thing, then we need less of it, not more.
It's wrong for anybody to use the weapon that was taken away from the bully using it up until now.
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Old 8th July 2019, 01:16 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Winning would be pretty easy, since this is clearly illegal discrimination. Harm and standing are obvious: if you paid more, you were harmed, and you have standing.

And lawyers fees are no joke.
Okay, put together a suit. Let's see how it goes, if reality plays out as it does in your head.
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Old 8th July 2019, 01:19 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
But you just did.
I was responding to a post complaining of one instance of "POC" being brought together in a group against "Non POC". It would serve the "Non POC" group very well if the "POC" group didn't exist, and instead was many dozens of smaller groups that wouldn't work together. That is the division I thought implied in the post I was responding to.
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Old 8th July 2019, 01:20 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I was very deliberate with my language. I didn't say *any* discrimination, I said *such* discrimination, meaning the specific form under discussion here.
The kind that's been going on for centuries?

Originally Posted by Ziggurat
Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
It's what's been going on for centuries, just seen from the other perspective. White people grouped everyone who wasn't white together and discriminated against them. It's hardly fair to insist that the victims of that discrimination can't associate together along the same lines.
Since white people are now legally prohibited from doing that, no, in fact, it's completely fair to insist that non-white people (most of whom were never subject to such discrimination themselves) be legally prohibited from doing it too.
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Old 8th July 2019, 01:22 PM   #31
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The only thing I'm really interested in is for on line and phone sales, how did they verify who was white?
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Old 8th July 2019, 01:32 PM   #32
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An Afrofuturist group says it reversed its decision to charge white people more for tickets to its Detroit festival than black and brown

They received threats, an artist dropped out and a ticketing website threatened to unpublished their event.

https://www.wthitv.com/content/natio...2.html?ref=892
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Old 8th July 2019, 01:33 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
Okay, put together a suit. Let's see how it goes, if reality plays out as it does in your head.
I'm not a lawyer, and since they already backed down, I can't buy a ticket at the elevated price so I wouldn't have standing. As for the insinuation that I don't know what I'm talking about, I was right about the illegality of the women-only Wonder Woman movie screenings. This is much the same: discrimination on the basis of a protected class in a public service. They might get away without a lawsuit because of how quickly they caved, but they were very much liable for illegal discrimination.
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Old 8th July 2019, 02:25 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
The only thing I'm really interested in is for on line and phone sales, how did they verify who was white?
Photo ID.

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Old 8th July 2019, 03:18 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
The only thing I'm really interested in is for on line and phone sales, how did they verify who was white?
Heck, I don't know how they'd verify it in person.
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Old 8th July 2019, 03:25 PM   #36
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Wonder if I would qualify. I'm a person of colour...many colours, actually. There's white bits and lots of spotty brown bits and a lot of pasty pink bits that don't see the sun all that often. My eyes are green-brown, my hair is going grey. And sometimes I feel blue. So where to put the colour-measuring stick?
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Old 8th July 2019, 03:35 PM   #37
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To be accurate, they would need specific pigment rules. Light to Dark isn't enough. We have "black," brown, yellow, red, all kinds of colors in the spectrum.

I would draw up an RGB color field, and put racial "bulls-eye" targets for Indian, Chinese, White Guy, etc. Then you take a color field sample of the person, say on the tip of their nose or middle of their forehead. For every standard deviation away from your chosen race, you lose 30% of your POC discount. For white people, it goes in reverse, you get a 10% partial POC credit for every standard deviation away from white guy bulls-eye.


POC = $10 + [$3 x each std dev color-correction charge]
Non-POC = $20 - [$2 x each std dev color-correction charge]


So:
  • Chinese girl who isn't nearly yellow enough - 2 std dev away - she pays $10 + (2 x $3) = $16.
  • White guy with a sun tan - 1 std dev away - he pays $20 - (1 x $2) = $18.






Note - There might be some problems with my method.

Last edited by carlitos; 8th July 2019 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 8th July 2019, 03:36 PM   #38
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
To be accurate, they would need specific pigment rules. Light to Dark isn't enough. We have "black," brown, yellow, red, all kinds of colors in the spectrum.

I would draw up an RGB color field, and put racial "bulls-eye" targets for Indian, Chinese, White Guy, etc. Then you take a color field sample of the person, say on the tip of their nose or middle of their forehead. For every standard deviation away from your chosen race, you lose 30% of your POC discount. For white people, it goes in reverse, you get a 10% partial POC credit for every standard deviation away from white guy bulls-eye.

So
  • Chinese girl who isn't nearly yellow enough - 2 std dev away - she pays $10 + (2 x $3) = $16.
  • White guy with a sun tan - 1 std dev away - he pays $20 - (1 x $3) = $17.

There might be some problems with my method.
For a start, online ticket purchase is going to be a ******* nightmare.
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Old 8th July 2019, 03:38 PM   #39
carlitos
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
For a start, online ticket purchase is going to be a ******* nightmare.
Webcam, baby!
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Old 8th July 2019, 03:38 PM   #40
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the group says, white people can afford tickets to any event in any city, while black and brown people cannot.

The group added that they're promoting "equity over equality".



POC indeed
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Last edited by applecorped; 8th July 2019 at 03:39 PM.
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