[Merged] The Qur'an corrects the mistakes of the false Injil/Torah - Page 55

junkshop · 17th November 2022, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Indeed, like God says that our world is like an egg, both in outward appearance and in internal structure...

Then God is wrong.

Skeptic General · 17th November 2022, 04:11 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

and from my old answers, about ants:

So since you believe this ******** and tied it to deciphering the language of ants, have you decipher it yet ?

Skeptic General · 17th November 2022, 04:12 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

In short, I have answered all these questions many times and you have ignored them. And now you shamelessly ask the same questions over and over again, and you don't read what was written in the past.

You're the only one who's shamelessly repeating falsehood here. You're not answering anything, you're spamming.

Skeptic General · 17th November 2022, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan

Stop quoting yourself and answer the questions people have put to you.

He can't. He has no answer. He can only believe what he says. He came here desperately to prove to himself what he believes is more than just believe.

Norman Alexander · 17th November 2022, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Indeed, like God says that our world is like an egg, both in outward appearance and in internal structure.

By the way, verses states also that the universes are spherical.

Quran 55:33

O society of jinn and humans! If you can escape the diameters of the heavens and the earth, go ahead and escape. But you will not escape except with authorization.

https://www.miracles-of-quran.com/sh..._universe.html

What shape do YOU think an egg is? Not what the Koran says, what do YOU think it is.

JoeMorgue · 17th November 2022, 05:08 PM

Emre_1974tr

Have... have you ever seen an egg?

JayUtah · 17th November 2022, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Indeed, like God says that our world is like an egg, both in outward appearance...

The Qur'an, as interpreted by you, says the Earth is egg-shaped. Eggs are asymmetrical prolate spheroids. Since I assume your translation software will have a problem with precise technical terms, I define "prolate" for you. It means a spheroid that is elongated along one -- and only one -- axis. Changing the orientation of that axis (horizontal or vertical) does not change the shape. Most importantly, it does not cause the spheroid to be elongated along more than just that one axis. Turning it sideways doesn't make it bulge uniformly at the new equator, as the Earth does.

Earth is a symmetrical oblate spheroid. Similarly I define "oblate" for you, for the same reasons. A spheroid is oblate if it is shortened along one -- and only one -- axis. It is a flattened spheroid, whereas a prolate spheroid ("egg-shaped") is elongated. Again, changing the orientation of an oblate spheroid does not change the number of axes along which it is oblate. You can't turn the Earth on its side and make it look like an egg.

If you want to rewrite "oblate" to mean expanded, you can. But you have to say it's expanded uniformly in the plane defined by the two other cardinal axes. Similarly you can rewrite "prolate" also to mean constricted, but it's constricted in the plane defined by two axes. No amount of reorientation changes the basic shape. The Qur'an is wrong when it tries to describe the shape of the Earth. It is exactly wrong, specifying the opposite shape.

You appear not to be mentally equipped to have this discussion. So all you seem able to do is repeat your claims over and over again as if nothing has been said to you. You're just spamming claims you've cribbed from polemical web sites. You can't even manage to find the sites that try to talk around the oblate-prolate issue. It's not as if there aren't attentive Muslims who realize that those are opposite shapes and that the "egg-shaped Earth" argument in favor of Koranic science is fundamentally flawed. The apologies they come up with are truly stupid, but what's even dumber is that you can't even realize that this is a problem you need to solve. You're that far behind.

Quote:

...and in internal structure.

Nice try. I limited my discussion to the shape. You posted that not because it answered my challenge, but because it's part of your unthinking knee-jerk reaction every time someone challenges you. You don't have an actual discussion. You just have an instinctively reactionary set of sources you post, which you don't actually understand.

I did address your separate attempt to characterize the structure of the Earth and its comparison to the structure of an egg. You did not answer it.

Quote:

By the way, verses states also that the universes are spherical.

Asked and answered. In cosmology it is meaningless to speak of the universe as having a shape. As with many other Muslims who try to prove that the Qur'an is scientifically accurate, you are scientifically illiterate.

junkshop · 17th November 2022, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

Emre_1974tr

Have... have you ever seen an egg?

Asked and ~~answered~~ ignored.

Emre_1974tr · 18th November 2022, 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Indeed, like God says that our world is like an egg, both in outward appearance and in internal structure.

By the way, verses states also that the universes are spherical.

Quran 55:33

O society of jinn and humans! If you can escape the diameters of the heavens and the earth, go ahead and escape. But you will not escape except with authorization.

https://www.miracles-of-quran.com/sh..._universe.html

Other universes have planets too.

Quran 65.12 "Allah is the one who created seven Heavens and from Earth like them (of corresponding type); [Allah's] command descends among them so that you may know that Allah is capable of anything and that Allah knows everything."

And they(other universes) have got creatures:

Quran 42:29“And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and of whatever living creatures (daabbah) He has spread forth in both. And He has the power to gather them together whenever he pleases”

Example "Floor of Lord" (Indallah) = afterlife universe
Except for the Hereafter universe, all the other universes will end with big crunch.

Quran 21:104 On the day when We roll up the heavens like a scroll of books is rolled up. As We initiated the first creation, so shall We return it. It is a promise of Ours that We will do this.

Quran 39:67 They have not given God His true worth; and the whole earth is within His fist on the day of resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Be He glorified; He is much too high above what they set up

JoeMorgue · 18th November 2022, 08:33 AM

I feel like Dr. House trying to get a rise out of Foreman. "I tell you I'm gonna drop the N-bomb if I have to."

Emre does the Quran tell the secret of how to phrase a question so you'll actually answer it?

JayUtah · 18th November 2022, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Other...

You quoted yourself -- your latest "Earth is egg-shaped" post -- to simply make more claims. You keep telling us that people have ignored you and that they are unable to answer your questions or claims. How could you possibly have missed my multi-paragraph response to the post you yourself just quoted? What is the penalty in Islam for intentionally, systematically lying?

Quote:

...universes have planets too.

[i]Quran 65.12 "Allah is the one who created seven Heavens...

No. Your decision that سَمَـٰوَ ٰتࣲ should best be understood to mean "universes" is your interpretation -- and not a very good one in Arabic etymology. You tell us you aren't interpreting the Qur'an, that your readings are simply the natural, obvious renditions. This is clearly not the case with your treatment of this verse.

Nor is it very good understanding of astrophysics and cosmology. The multiverse hypothesis is a conjecture in physics, not a fact or even a theory. And the second phrase of the Qur'an verse 65:12 specifies communication of Allah's commands between the "heavens," which is precluded in the multiverse hypothesis; there can be no causal connection among them.

Other commentators who try to map the language of this verse onto modern scientific understanding say we should be thinking in terms of solar systems or galaxies. You've picked the most problematic interpretation.

Emre_1974tr · 18th November 2022, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Other universes have planets too.

Quran 65.12 "Allah is the one who created seven Heavens and from Earth like them (of corresponding type); [Allah's] command descends among them so that you may know that Allah is capable of anything and that Allah knows everything."

And they(other universes) have got creatures:

Quran 42:29“And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and of whatever living creatures (daabbah) He has spread forth in both. And He has the power to gather them together whenever he pleases”

Example "Floor of Lord" (Indallah) = afterlife universe
Except for the Hereafter universe, all the other universes will end with big crunch.

Quran 21:104 On the day when We roll up the heavens like a scroll of books is rolled up. As We initiated the first creation, so shall We return it. It is a promise of Ours that We will do this.

Quran 39:67 They have not given God His true worth; and the whole earth is within His fist on the day of resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Be He glorified; He is much too high above what they set up

And for a better understanding of the issue:

http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/...-to-quran.html

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611687.0

JoeMorgue · 18th November 2022, 09:47 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

And for a better understanding of the issue:

... go outside and touch grass.

JoeMorgue · 18th November 2022, 09:48 AM

Also I want to again point out that 55 pages of not engaging in discussion and just preaching is considered 100% perfectly civil.

Quick someone be just a little too snarky to him. I wanna see what happens.

JayUtah · 18th November 2022, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

And for a better understanding of the issue...

No, I'm not going to read your posts at other forums. You are here in this forum discussing your claims. They are being addressed in this forum. Say what you have to say in this forum or don't say it at all. Do not simply direct traffic to other places where you post and then complain that others here don't want to engage you in the way you demand. That's just playing games.

Once again a complete, thoughtful response has been present to your latest claim, from which the links you posted are just another diversion. You have completely ignored it. That's your prerogative, but you are accusing others of ignoring you. You are clearly not being ignored. You are being engaged courteously, and with relevant responses. "Indeed, Allah does not guide one who is a transgressor and a liar." (40:28)

JayUtah · 18th November 2022, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by JoeMorgue

... go outside and touch grass.

It's cold outside and the grass is covered with leaves. But yes, his links don't address any of the recent rebuttals. He started a couple days ago by trying to resurrect his "egg-shaped Earth" claims, which he dishonestly says have not been addressed. After posting a few pictures of eggs, he has now pretty much abandoned anything having to do with eggs and is trying to supplant it with a claim that the Qur'an embraces some notion of a multiverse. The links he posted to "clarify" those new claims merely bounce off in new directions having to do with animism and such. They don't address the rebuttal to the multiverse debacle.

Yes, clearly he's just seagulling a bunch of spam links, and has been doing little else for dozens of pages. But his claims that we're all ignoring him are just a bit too cheeky and arrogant for me to pass up every time.

JoeMorgue · 18th November 2022, 11:02 AM

He is, like far too many people, benefitting from the insane rule in modern internet discourse that if you give unreasonable wrongness any attention it "wins."

We keep getting told we don't have to give crazy an unopposed soapbox, but in the same breathe any way to actually deal with is rejected.

To the point that we're now functionally at "I'm not saying we're on the trolls side, but the only ways to deal with we're gonna allow are ways that have been proven to not work."

Emre_1974tr · 18th November 2022, 12:49 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

And for a better understanding of the issue:

http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/...-to-quran.html

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611687.0

As is known, the Qur'an describes how everything was created in pairs, that is, in more than one number:

Yasin
36: Praise be to the One who has created all pairs from what the earth sprouts out and from themselves, and from what they do not know.

Zariyat
49: And We created everything in pairs, so that you may take counsel.

In this context; Since the universe is also a created servant, it should not be unique and only one. All created beings are paired. After the Apocalypse, only the "Floor of the Lord", that is, the Universes of the Hereafter, will remain, but he will still be living with those in more than one universe (the verses emphasize that the "heavens of the hereafter" and the "earths" will exist forever).

In short; These verses also offer another, albeit indirect, explanation of the creation of more than one universe.

Only God is unique. It is the case that the servants created by Allah have spouses (same or opposite), that is, more than one of them.

JayUtah · 18th November 2022, 01:21 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

As is known...

Stop spamming. Your previous claims have been challenged, and you have dishonestly claimed you're being ignored. The Qur'an says Allah does not guide liars, so you are clearly not doing his work until you acknowledge the rebuttals.

Emre_1974tr · 18th November 2022, 04:38 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

As is known, the Qur'an describes how everything was created in pairs, that is, in more than one number:

Yasin
36: Praise be to the One who has created all pairs from what the earth sprouts out and from themselves, and from what they do not know.

Zariyat
49: And We created everything in pairs, so that you may take counsel.

In this context; Since the universe is also a created servant, it should not be unique and only one. All created beings are paired. After the Apocalypse, only the "Floor of the Lord", that is, the Universes of the Hereafter, will remain, but he will still be living with those in more than one universe (the verses emphasize that the "heavens of the hereafter" and the "earths" will exist forever).

In short; These verses also offer another, albeit indirect, explanation of the creation of more than one universe.

Only God is unique. It is the case that the servants created by Allah have spouses (same or opposite), that is, more than one of them.

-Think not of those who are slain in Allah.s way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the floor of their Lord;

- Allah is pleased with the blessing he has bestowed upon them, and about the Mujahideen who have not joined them as martyrs behind them: "They have no fear, and they will not hear sadness." are found. (Surat al-Fitr 169-170)

According to these verses;

1- While other dead people are really dead (waiting for the resurrection), the martyrs are alive differently from them.

2- They live in blessings on the floor of the Lord (in the Hereafter)

3. When they speak in heaven, they give good news about the people who are still in the world and / or who have not yet been resurrected after they have been killed (they also say words that they will participate in the Jenny)

However, the point to be noted here is that the people who are now in heaven (in the Rabbinic Floor) are as physical as us, they are materially alive. Already according to the Qur'an, there is no such thing as souls, spiritual life. Everlasting life is also the body. All creatures, including angels and goblins, are already members (for example, if we were created from earth, the jinn were also created from fire). You can also read my article on "Nobody has got ghost according to Quran".

Meryem

56. Also mention in the Book the case of Idris: He was a man of truth (and sincerity), (and) a prophet:

57. We raised him in a high/lofty place.

Al-i İmran 55. Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

.................................................. .....

IS JESUS ALIVE?

Let me briefly answer this frequently asked question again:

Prophet Jesus died, but just like other prophets and martyrs, he was created again in the Paradise (Floor of Lord).

In other words, living in a Paradise now.

In short, not only Jesus, but all the prophets and messengers live in other Universe.

So, the Holy Quran corrects the false Bible again.

Regards.

Emre_1974tr

JayUtah · 18th November 2022, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

So, the Holy Quran corrects the false Bible again.

No, they just tell different fairy tales. No one here believes in or cares about your belief that one set of superstition is somehow more credible than another.

We do, however, care about your claims that the Qur'an somehow miraculously got science right. I've addressed your claims in which you allude to aspects (or conjectures) about the physical world. Will you address them? Or will you continue lying about the supposed lack of response?

JoeMorgue · 18th November 2022, 06:01 PM

This is the 5th time I've asked you this. Let's see if you are intellectually honest enough to answer this time.

The Quran states the following provably wrong, non-subjective falsehoods in a non-parable way.

1. It describes a geocentric solar system.
2. Similar to the Bible is describes the Earth as being created is six days.
3. It describes the Earth as being created before the stars.
4. It states that 7 Earths exist.
5. It describes the Earth and Moon as the same size and same distance from Earth.
6. It claims the Moon generates its own light.
7. It decrees that followers follow rituals that make no sense if the length of a day is variable, such as it is at higher latitudes.
8. Humans are created from clay.
9. Human descending from a magically created original pair of humans.
10. Sperms comes from the backbone and ribs.
11. Embryos are formed entirely from the semen.
12. It describes the heart as a thinking organ like the brain.
13. How you are supposed to face toward Mecca makes no sense if the Earth is round.
14. It describes salt and fresh water as not mixing in nature.
15. It describes a massive wall of iron as existing in Biblical (or Quranian or whatever) times.
16. It tells of Crucifixion occurring in Egypt at the time of Moses.
17. It repeats the oft repeated Noah flood myth.
18. It has a description of humans being turned into apes as punishment for breaking the Sabbath.
19. The whole flying horse thing which is in the Quran and I don't know why you try to lie and say it doesn't.
20. The inheritance rules don't add up mathematically, even if you round the numbers off.
21. Apparently if you have bangs you're a liar.

These are not "interpretations" or parables or "colorful language" or metaphors or some ancient people's interpretations of anything. They are falsehoods and lies.

Norman Alexander · 18th November 2022, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

As is known, the Qur'an describes how everything was created in pairs, that is, in more than one number:

No. A pair is two only.

Quote:

Yasin
36: Praise be to the One who has created all pairs from what the earth sprouts out and from themselves, and from what they do not know.

Zariyat
49: And We created everything in pairs, so that you may take counsel.

In this context; Since the universe is also a created servant, it should not be unique and only one. All created beings are paired. After the Apocalypse, only the "Floor of the Lord", that is, the Universes of the Hereafter, will remain, but he will still be living with those in more than one universe (the verses emphasize that the "heavens of the hereafter" and the "earths" will exist forever).

In short; These verses also offer another, albeit indirect, explanation of the creation of more than one universe.

Only God is unique. It is the case that the servants created by Allah have spouses (same or opposite), that is, more than one of them.

None of this makes any sense in the English language. They are just random words. Please get someone who can translate correctly for you.

DetectedMotion · 18th November 2022, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

And for a better understanding of the issue:

http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/...-to-quran.html

https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611687.0

What a stupid religion. You muslims puposely lie to take credit for everything even though your Quran has been edited many times over according to, according to, acording to....etc. Do you pratice Mu'tah, Emre?

Scorpion · 20th November 2022, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Indeed, like God says that our world is like an egg, both in outward appearance and in internal structure.

The only translation I can find that says the earth is egg shaped is Rashad Khalifa, and he was killed for blasphemy by Muslims for corrupting the Quran.

Quran verse 79.30

Khalifa -He made the earth egg-shaped.

Pickthall- And after that He spread the earth.

Shakir- And the earth, He expanded it after that.

Sherali- And the earth, along with it, HE has spread forth.

Yusufali - And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);

Scorpion · 21st November 2022, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

and from my old answers, about ants:

You also said. 'Just the opposite. Science has once again proven that the holy Qur'an is right. Ants speak aloud, and this has just been discovered. Previously, it was thought that they only communicated with hormones.'

Are you seriously telling us the following Quran verses are true?

27.18 Till, when they reached the Valley of the Ants, an ant exclaimed: O ants! Enter your dwellings lest Solomon and his armies crush you, unperceiving.

27.19 And (Solomon) smiled, laughing at her speech, and said: My Lord, arouse me to be thankful for Thy favour wherewith Thou hast favoured me and my parents, and to do good that shall be pleasing unto Thee, and include me in (the number of) Thy righteous slaves.

King Solomon overheard an ant talking: Firstly do you really believe an ant can compose an intelligible sentence in a language that can be understood?

Secondly how could a man possibly hear an ant talking when even if it shouted as loud as it could its sound would be so quiet it would be entirely inaudible to a man.

I cannot believe you are seriously trying to justify the above verses in the Quran.

JayUtah · 21st November 2022, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Scorpion

The only translation I can find that says the earth is egg shaped is Rashad Khalifa, and he was killed for blasphemy by Muslims for corrupting the Quran.

As we learn from studying so many religions, one person's heretic is another person's prophet. So that doesn't necessary put Emre off. To be scrupulously fair, we can certainly note that if Khalifa's execution was for "corrupting the Qur'an" (among other crimes), then we should probably not rely upon his translation of this verse. But we cannot be certain this is one of the "corrupted" verses. So we want to look at a bigger picture.

Quote:

Quran verse 79.30

Sure, the first problem to solve is how correctly to translate دَحَاهَا. And it probably won't do any good to refer back to the discussion we had the last time this came up, where we point out that the vast majority of English translators and commentators render it "spread out," not at all inconsistent with the authorities you quote. And a number of people believe this indicates a flat Earth, "spread out" as one would carpet or a blanket -- a practice certainly familiar to nomadic inhabitants of the Middle East. The full lexicon of the many possible meanings of دَحَاهَا seems to convey a general action consistent with that image.

The attempt to make دَحَاهَا refer to an actual shape (flat or spherical), much less an egg shape, seems to have only dubious support among native speakers and etymologists of Arabic and among Qur'an scholars. And as such it smacks of the tail wagging the dog. The interests of the minority of Muslims who want to see scientific justification in the Qur'an are groping to make this word describe a shape for the Earth that cannot have been known until modern techniques, even if it means they have to torture the Arabic language in order to get it to happen.

Emre_1974tr · 21st November 2022, 03:14 PM

Holy Quran
72:16 And had they walked on a straight path, We would have provided them with abundant water.

72:17 To test them with it. And whoever turns away from the remembrance of his Lord, He will enter him a severe retribution.

(The test of good people is usually with blessings and beauty)

and;

10:98 Why was there not a single town that benefited from its acknowledgement, with the exception of the people of Jonah? When they acknowledged, We removed from them the retribution of disgrace in this worldly life, and We let them enjoy until a time.

(The suffering of good people is also because they have some bad side. If this bad side is removed, so is the torment)

In short, the good live a more beautiful and paradisiacal life in this world than the bad.

But some good people also have some bad sides. They pay for them with some hardships in this world and with a lower rank in paradise.

JayUtah · 21st November 2022, 03:50 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Holy

Are you not paying attention to the discussion going on around you?

DetectedMotion · 22nd November 2022, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Are you not paying attention to the discussion going on around you?

He's avoiding it; According to him (Since there are many interpretations of the Quran that are According to this scholar, according to that scholar....etc.), the Quran has evolved (apparently some decided that it had to) into a more modern day Bill Nye science try.
Emre don't even like the hadith's anymore.

Crossbow · 22nd November 2022, 05:05 AM

Originally Posted by JayUtah

Are you not paying attention to the discussion going on around you?

Considering the large volume of delusional postings that he has been writing over the last several weeks, then I would say that the answer to your question is "No. He is clearly not paying attention to the discussion going on around him.".

DetectedMotion · 22nd November 2022, 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Scorpion

The only translation I can find that says the earth is egg shaped is Rashad Khalifa, and he was killed for blasphemy by Muslims for corrupting the Quran.

Quran verse 79.30

Khalifa -He made the earth egg-shaped.

Pickthall- And after that He spread the earth.

Shakir- And the earth, He expanded it after that.

Sherali- And the earth, along with it, HE has spread forth.

Yusufali - And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);

Allah doesn't even know what he created first; The earth or heaven??!!

According to Surah 41:9, the earth was created first, then the heavens.
41:9 “He who created the earth in two days” here Allah started creating the Earth.

41:10 “And He placed on the earth firmly set mountains over its surface,” Allah created mountains on the surface of the Earth.

41:11 “THEN He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke” It’s important to notice the word then, meaning “afterwards” signifying that once the Earth was created Allah created heaven.

According to Surah 79:27-30, the heavens were created first, then the earth.

79:27 “Are you a more difficult creation or is the heaven? Allah constructed it.” Here Allah starts creating heaven first not the Earth.

79:28 “He raised its ceiling and proportioned it.”

79:29 “And He darkened its night and extracted its brightness.”

79:30 “And after that He spread the earth.”

Pretty sad when the "best of the creators" doesn't know what it had first created.

Emre_1974tr · 24th November 2022, 07:50 PM

again;

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Examples:

"Meanwhile, 41:11 and 41:12 verses about the arrangement of existing universes.(when they in gas/smoke form)

41:11 Furthermore, He settled to the heaven, while it was still gas, and He said to it, and to the earth: "Come willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."

41:12 He then made them into seven heavens in two days, and He inspired to every universe its affair. We adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and for protection. Such is the design of the Noble, the Knowledgeable.

The world is being created in these last two days.
41:11 And11 He [it is who] applied His design to the skies, which were [yet but] smoke;12 and He [it is who] said to them and to the earth, “Come [into being], both of you, willingly or unwillingly!" - to which both responded, “We do come in obedience."

"41:11 and 41:12 about The arrangement of existing universes and the creation of the world.

The world has been shaped in the last two days, so it was created. The existing universes were arranged..

That's why when the universe is six years old, the world is two years old."

DetectedMotion · 24th November 2022, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

again;

So you ignore Surah 79:27-30

According to Surah 79:27-30, the heavens were created first, then the earth.

79:27 “Are you a more difficult creation or is the heaven? Allah constructed it.” Here Allah starts creating heaven first not the Earth.

79:28 “He raised its ceiling and proportioned it.”

79:29 “And He darkened its night and extracted its brightness.”

79:30 “And after that He spread the earth.”

Pretty sad when your Moon God is "best of the creators" and doesn't know what it had first created.

Norman Alexander · 24th November 2022, 11:23 PM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

again;

Quote:

The world has been shaped in the last two days, so it was created.

That's why when the universe is six years old, the world is two years old.

I don't think you learned any basic arithmetic at school. Seriously, you didn't. It's that, or you have lost all touch with reality. I'll let you figure that out yourself.

DetectedMotion · 25th November 2022, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

again;

41:11 Furthermore, He settled to the heaven, while it was still gas, and He said to it, and to the earth: "Come willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."

I see you changed the Begining word of this verse to "Furthermore" The Sahih International translates it as "Then", not Furthermore.
Why are you being deceptive here?

Emre_1974tr · 25th November 2022, 03:19 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

Examples:

"Meanwhile, 41:11 and 41:12 verses about the arrangement of existing universes.(when they in gas/smoke form)

41:11 Furthermore, He settled to the heaven, while it was still gas, and He said to it, and to the earth: "Come willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."

41:12 He then made them into seven heavens in two days, and He inspired to every universe its affair. We adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and for protection. Such is the design of the Noble, the Knowledgeable.

The world is being created in these last two days.
41:11 And11 He [it is who] applied His design to the skies, which were [yet but] smoke;12 and He [it is who] said to them and to the earth, “Come [into being], both of you, willingly or unwillingly!" - to which both responded, “We do come in obedience."

"41:11 and 41:12 about The arrangement of existing universes and the creation of the world.

The world has been shaped in the last two days, so it was created. The existing universes were arranged..

That's why when the universe is six years old, the world is two years old."

And I have explained this issue in detail with proofs many times here.

Universes are created in four days, and in the last two days these created universes are organized, and in these last two days the world is also created. The verses are very clear. Do not cling to erroneous translations in vain. I have announced this Quranic miracle to the world in my extensive and detailed articles.

In short, it took six days for our universe to become what it is today. This period includes our Earth. And in the last two days of these six days, our planet was created in this universe.

steenkh · 25th November 2022, 04:30 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

And I have explained this issue in detail with proofs many times here.

You have repeated yourself often enough, but no proof given.

Quote:

In short, it took six days for our universe to become what it is today. This period includes our Earth. And in the last two days of these six days, our planet was created in this universe.

In what science text book have you read that the Earth is as old as the universe minus four days?

Crossbow · 25th November 2022, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr

And I have explained this issue in detail with proofs many times here.

Universes are created in four days, and in the last two days these created universes are organized, and in these last two days the world is also created. The verses are very clear. Do not cling to erroneous translations in vain. I have announced this Quranic miracle to the world in my extensive and detailed articles.

In short, it took six days for our universe to become what it is today. This period includes our Earth. And in the last two days of these six days, our planet was created in this universe.

What a load of useless crap.

Emre_1974tr · 25th November 2022, 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by steenkh

In what science text book have you read that the Earth is as old as the universe minus four days?

The age of the universe is three times the age of our Earth.

Quran 50:38. We assuredly created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six days, and nothing of fatigue touched us.

Quran 41.9 Say, "Do you indeed disbelieve in He who created the earth in two days and attribute to Him equals? That is the Lord of the worlds."

The verses say the universes and our universe have been created in 6 days/stages, and our Earth is in 2 days/phases.

So the age or creation phase of the universe means three times the age of our Earth or the stage of creation.

Today, science also gives a similar knowledge: Our universe is 13.5 billion years old and our Earth is 4.5 billion years old....

In other words, science indicates that the age of our universe is 3 times the age of our Earth(4.5 X 3 = 13.5).

17th November 2022, 03:47 PM	#2161
junkshop Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: in the kitchen Posts: 1,538	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Indeed, like God says that our world is like an egg, both in outward appearance and in internal structure... Then God is wrong.
	__________________ Hobbyist receipt-keeper and fake cockney Dick Van Dyke cosplayer.

17th November 2022, 04:11 PM	#2162
Skeptic General Student Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 42	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr and from my old answers, about ants: So since you believe this ******** and tied it to deciphering the language of ants, have you decipher it yet ?
Skeptic General Student Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 42

17th November 2022, 04:12 PM	#2163
Skeptic General Student Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 42	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr In short, I have answered all these questions many times and you have ignored them. And now you shamelessly ask the same questions over and over again, and you don't read what was written in the past. You're the only one who's shamelessly repeating falsehood here. You're not answering anything, you're spamming.
Skeptic General Student Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 42

17th November 2022, 04:14 PM	#2164
Skeptic General Student Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 42	Originally Posted by MarkCorrigan Stop quoting yourself and answer the questions people have put to you. He can't. He has no answer. He can only believe what he says. He came here desperately to prove to himself what he believes is more than just believe.
Skeptic General Student Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 42

17th November 2022, 05:03 PM	#2165
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,280	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Indeed, like God says that our world is like an egg, both in outward appearance and in internal structure. By the way, verses states also that the universes are spherical. Quran 55:33 O society of jinn and humans! If you can escape the diameters of the heavens and the earth, go ahead and escape. But you will not escape except with authorization. https://www.miracles-of-quran.com/sh..._universe.html What shape do YOU think an egg is? Not what the Koran says, what do YOU think it is.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

17th November 2022, 05:08 PM	#2166
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 43,145	Emre_1974tr Have... have you ever seen an egg?
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

17th November 2022, 05:19 PM	#2167
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,423	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Indeed, like God says that our world is like an egg, both in outward appearance... The Qur'an, as interpreted by you, says the Earth is egg-shaped. Eggs are asymmetrical prolate spheroids. Since I assume your translation software will have a problem with precise technical terms, I define "prolate" for you. It means a spheroid that is elongated along one -- and only one -- axis. Changing the orientation of that axis (horizontal or vertical) does not change the shape. Most importantly, it does not cause the spheroid to be elongated along more than just that one axis. Turning it sideways doesn't make it bulge uniformly at the new equator, as the Earth does. Earth is a symmetrical oblate spheroid. Similarly I define "oblate" for you, for the same reasons. A spheroid is oblate if it is shortened along one -- and only one -- axis. It is a flattened spheroid, whereas a prolate spheroid ("egg-shaped") is elongated. Again, changing the orientation of an oblate spheroid does not change the number of axes along which it is oblate. You can't turn the Earth on its side and make it look like an egg. If you want to rewrite "oblate" to mean expanded, you can. But you have to say it's expanded uniformly in the plane defined by the two other cardinal axes. Similarly you can rewrite "prolate" also to mean constricted, but it's constricted in the plane defined by two axes. No amount of reorientation changes the basic shape. The Qur'an is wrong when it tries to describe the shape of the Earth. It is exactly wrong, specifying the opposite shape. You appear not to be mentally equipped to have this discussion. So all you seem able to do is repeat your claims over and over again as if nothing has been said to you. You're just spamming claims you've cribbed from polemical web sites. You can't even manage to find the sites that try to talk around the oblate-prolate issue. It's not as if there aren't attentive Muslims who realize that those are opposite shapes and that the "egg-shaped Earth" argument in favor of Koranic science is fundamentally flawed. The apologies they come up with are truly stupid, but what's even dumber is that you can't even realize that this is a problem you need to solve. You're that far behind. Quote: ...and in internal structure. Nice try. I limited my discussion to the shape. You posted that not because it answered my challenge, but because it's part of your unthinking knee-jerk reaction every time someone challenges you. You don't have an actual discussion. You just have an instinctively reactionary set of sources you post, which you don't actually understand. I did address your separate attempt to characterize the structure of the Earth and its comparison to the structure of an egg. You did not answer it. Quote: By the way, verses states also that the universes are spherical. Asked and answered. In cosmology it is meaningless to speak of the universe as having a shape. As with many other Muslims who try to prove that the Qur'an is scientifically accurate, you are scientifically illiterate.

17th November 2022, 05:22 PM	#2168
junkshop Graduate Poster Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: in the kitchen Posts: 1,538	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue Emre_1974tr Have... have you ever seen an egg? Asked and ~~answered~~ ignored.
	__________________ Hobbyist receipt-keeper and fake cockney Dick Van Dyke cosplayer.

18th November 2022, 07:58 AM	#2169
Emre_1974tr Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Turkey Posts: 1,192	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Indeed, like God says that our world is like an egg, both in outward appearance and in internal structure. By the way, verses states also that the universes are spherical. Quran 55:33 O society of jinn and humans! If you can escape the diameters of the heavens and the earth, go ahead and escape. But you will not escape except with authorization. https://www.miracles-of-quran.com/sh..._universe.html Other universes have planets too. Quran 65.12 "Allah is the one who created seven Heavens and from Earth like them (of corresponding type); [Allah's] command descends among them so that you may know that Allah is capable of anything and that Allah knows everything." And they(other universes) have got creatures: Quran 42:29“And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and of whatever living creatures (daabbah) He has spread forth in both. And He has the power to gather them together whenever he pleases” Example "Floor of Lord" (Indallah) = afterlife universe Except for the Hereafter universe, all the other universes will end with big crunch. Quran 21:104 On the day when We roll up the heavens like a scroll of books is rolled up. As We initiated the first creation, so shall We return it. It is a promise of Ours that We will do this. Quran 39:67 They have not given God His true worth; and the whole earth is within His fist on the day of resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Be He glorified; He is much too high above what they set up

18th November 2022, 08:33 AM	#2170
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 43,145	I feel like Dr. House trying to get a rise out of Foreman. "I tell you I'm gonna drop the N-bomb if I have to." Emre does the Quran tell the secret of how to phrase a question so you'll actually answer it?
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

18th November 2022, 08:54 AM	#2171
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,423	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Other... You quoted yourself -- your latest "Earth is egg-shaped" post -- to simply make more claims. You keep telling us that people have ignored you and that they are unable to answer your questions or claims. How could you possibly have missed my multi-paragraph response to the post you yourself just quoted? What is the penalty in Islam for intentionally, systematically lying? Quote: ...universes have planets too. [i]Quran 65.12 "Allah is the one who created seven Heavens... No. Your decision that سَمَـٰوَ ٰتࣲ should best be understood to mean "universes" is your interpretation -- and not a very good one in Arabic etymology. You tell us you aren't interpreting the Qur'an, that your readings are simply the natural, obvious renditions. This is clearly not the case with your treatment of this verse. Nor is it very good understanding of astrophysics and cosmology. The multiverse hypothesis is a conjecture in physics, not a fact or even a theory. And the second phrase of the Qur'an verse 65:12 specifies communication of Allah's commands between the "heavens," which is precluded in the multiverse hypothesis; there can be no causal connection among them. Other commentators who try to map the language of this verse onto modern scientific understanding say we should be thinking in terms of solar systems or galaxies. You've picked the most problematic interpretation.
	Last edited by JayUtah; 18th November 2022 at 10:48 AM.

18th November 2022, 09:45 AM	#2172
Emre_1974tr Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Turkey Posts: 1,192	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Other universes have planets too. Quran 65.12 "Allah is the one who created seven Heavens and from Earth like them (of corresponding type); [Allah's] command descends among them so that you may know that Allah is capable of anything and that Allah knows everything." And they(other universes) have got creatures: Quran 42:29“And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and of whatever living creatures (daabbah) He has spread forth in both. And He has the power to gather them together whenever he pleases” Example "Floor of Lord" (Indallah) = afterlife universe Except for the Hereafter universe, all the other universes will end with big crunch. Quran 21:104 On the day when We roll up the heavens like a scroll of books is rolled up. As We initiated the first creation, so shall We return it. It is a promise of Ours that We will do this. Quran 39:67 They have not given God His true worth; and the whole earth is within His fist on the day of resurrection, and the heavens will be folded in His right hand. Be He glorified; He is much too high above what they set up And for a better understanding of the issue: http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/...-to-quran.html https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611687.0
	Last edited by Emre_1974tr; 18th November 2022 at 09:47 AM.

18th November 2022, 09:47 AM	#2173
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 43,145	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr And for a better understanding of the issue: ... go outside and touch grass.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

18th November 2022, 09:48 AM	#2174
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 43,145	Also I want to again point out that 55 pages of not engaging in discussion and just preaching is considered 100% perfectly civil. Quick someone be just a little too snarky to him. I wanna see what happens.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

18th November 2022, 10:45 AM	#2175
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,423	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr And for a better understanding of the issue... No, I'm not going to read your posts at other forums. You are here in this forum discussing your claims. They are being addressed in this forum. Say what you have to say in this forum or don't say it at all. Do not simply direct traffic to other places where you post and then complain that others here don't want to engage you in the way you demand. That's just playing games. Once again a complete, thoughtful response has been present to your latest claim, from which the links you posted are just another diversion. You have completely ignored it. That's your prerogative, but you are accusing others of ignoring you. You are clearly not being ignored. You are being engaged courteously, and with relevant responses. "Indeed, Allah does not guide one who is a transgressor and a liar." (40:28)
	Last edited by JayUtah; 18th November 2022 at 10:46 AM.

18th November 2022, 10:58 AM	#2176
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,423	Originally Posted by JoeMorgue ... go outside and touch grass. It's cold outside and the grass is covered with leaves. But yes, his links don't address any of the recent rebuttals. He started a couple days ago by trying to resurrect his "egg-shaped Earth" claims, which he dishonestly says have not been addressed. After posting a few pictures of eggs, he has now pretty much abandoned anything having to do with eggs and is trying to supplant it with a claim that the Qur'an embraces some notion of a multiverse. The links he posted to "clarify" those new claims merely bounce off in new directions having to do with animism and such. They don't address the rebuttal to the multiverse debacle. Yes, clearly he's just seagulling a bunch of spam links, and has been doing little else for dozens of pages. But his claims that we're all ignoring him are just a bit too cheeky and arrogant for me to pass up every time.

18th November 2022, 11:02 AM	#2177
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 43,145	He is, like far too many people, benefitting from the insane rule in modern internet discourse that if you give unreasonable wrongness any attention it "wins." We keep getting told we don't have to give crazy an unopposed soapbox, but in the same breathe any way to actually deal with is rejected. To the point that we're now functionally at "I'm not saying we're on the trolls side, but the only ways to deal with we're gonna allow are ways that have been proven to not work."
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

18th November 2022, 12:49 PM	#2178
Emre_1974tr Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Turkey Posts: 1,192	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr And for a better understanding of the issue: http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/...-to-quran.html https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611687.0 As is known, the Qur'an describes how everything was created in pairs, that is, in more than one number: Yasin 36: Praise be to the One who has created all pairs from what the earth sprouts out and from themselves, and from what they do not know. Zariyat 49: And We created everything in pairs, so that you may take counsel. In this context; Since the universe is also a created servant, it should not be unique and only one. All created beings are paired. After the Apocalypse, only the "Floor of the Lord", that is, the Universes of the Hereafter, will remain, but he will still be living with those in more than one universe (the verses emphasize that the "heavens of the hereafter" and the "earths" will exist forever). In short; These verses also offer another, albeit indirect, explanation of the creation of more than one universe. Only God is unique. It is the case that the servants created by Allah have spouses (same or opposite), that is, more than one of them.

18th November 2022, 01:21 PM	#2179
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,423	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr As is known... Stop spamming. Your previous claims have been challenged, and you have dishonestly claimed you're being ignored. The Qur'an says Allah does not guide liars, so you are clearly not doing his work until you acknowledge the rebuttals.

18th November 2022, 04:38 PM	#2180
Emre_1974tr Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Turkey Posts: 1,192	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr As is known, the Qur'an describes how everything was created in pairs, that is, in more than one number: Yasin 36: Praise be to the One who has created all pairs from what the earth sprouts out and from themselves, and from what they do not know. Zariyat 49: And We created everything in pairs, so that you may take counsel. In this context; Since the universe is also a created servant, it should not be unique and only one. All created beings are paired. After the Apocalypse, only the "Floor of the Lord", that is, the Universes of the Hereafter, will remain, but he will still be living with those in more than one universe (the verses emphasize that the "heavens of the hereafter" and the "earths" will exist forever). In short; These verses also offer another, albeit indirect, explanation of the creation of more than one universe. Only God is unique. It is the case that the servants created by Allah have spouses (same or opposite), that is, more than one of them. -Think not of those who are slain in Allah.s way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the floor of their Lord; - Allah is pleased with the blessing he has bestowed upon them, and about the Mujahideen who have not joined them as martyrs behind them: "They have no fear, and they will not hear sadness." are found. (Surat al-Fitr 169-170) According to these verses; 1- While other dead people are really dead (waiting for the resurrection), the martyrs are alive differently from them. 2- They live in blessings on the floor of the Lord (in the Hereafter) 3. When they speak in heaven, they give good news about the people who are still in the world and / or who have not yet been resurrected after they have been killed (they also say words that they will participate in the Jenny) However, the point to be noted here is that the people who are now in heaven (in the Rabbinic Floor) are as physical as us, they are materially alive. Already according to the Qur'an, there is no such thing as souls, spiritual life. Everlasting life is also the body. All creatures, including angels and goblins, are already members (for example, if we were created from earth, the jinn were also created from fire). You can also read my article on "Nobody has got ghost according to Quran". Meryem 56. Also mention in the Book the case of Idris: He was a man of truth (and sincerity), (and) a prophet: 57. We raised him in a high/lofty place. Al-i İmran 55. Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute. .................................................. ..... IS JESUS ALIVE? Let me briefly answer this frequently asked question again: Prophet Jesus died, but just like other prophets and martyrs, he was created again in the Paradise (Floor of Lord). In other words, living in a Paradise now. In short, not only Jesus, but all the prophets and messengers live in other Universe. So, the Holy Quran corrects the false Bible again. Regards. Emre_1974tr

18th November 2022, 05:11 PM	#2181
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,423	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr So, the Holy Quran corrects the false Bible again. No, they just tell different fairy tales. No one here believes in or cares about your belief that one set of superstition is somehow more credible than another. We do, however, care about your claims that the Qur'an somehow miraculously got science right. I've addressed your claims in which you allude to aspects (or conjectures) about the physical world. Will you address them? Or will you continue lying about the supposed lack of response?

18th November 2022, 06:01 PM	#2182
JoeMorgue Self Employed Remittance Man Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 43,145	This is the 5th time I've asked you this. Let's see if you are intellectually honest enough to answer this time. The Quran states the following provably wrong, non-subjective falsehoods in a non-parable way. 1. It describes a geocentric solar system. 2. Similar to the Bible is describes the Earth as being created is six days. 3. It describes the Earth as being created before the stars. 4. It states that 7 Earths exist. 5. It describes the Earth and Moon as the same size and same distance from Earth. 6. It claims the Moon generates its own light. 7. It decrees that followers follow rituals that make no sense if the length of a day is variable, such as it is at higher latitudes. 8. Humans are created from clay. 9. Human descending from a magically created original pair of humans. 10. Sperms comes from the backbone and ribs. 11. Embryos are formed entirely from the semen. 12. It describes the heart as a thinking organ like the brain. 13. How you are supposed to face toward Mecca makes no sense if the Earth is round. 14. It describes salt and fresh water as not mixing in nature. 15. It describes a massive wall of iron as existing in Biblical (or Quranian or whatever) times. 16. It tells of Crucifixion occurring in Egypt at the time of Moses. 17. It repeats the oft repeated Noah flood myth. 18. It has a description of humans being turned into apes as punishment for breaking the Sabbath. 19. The whole flying horse thing which is in the Quran and I don't know why you try to lie and say it doesn't. 20. The inheritance rules don't add up mathematically, even if you round the numbers off. 21. Apparently if you have bangs you're a liar. These are not "interpretations" or parables or "colorful language" or metaphors or some ancient people's interpretations of anything. They are falsehoods and lies.
	__________________ "If everyone in the room says water is wet and I say it's dry that makes me smart because at least I'm thinking for myself!" - The Proudly Wrong.

18th November 2022, 07:20 PM	#2183
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,280	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr As is known, the Qur'an describes how everything was created in pairs, that is, in more than one number: No. A pair is two only. Quote: Yasin 36: Praise be to the One who has created all pairs from what the earth sprouts out and from themselves, and from what they do not know. Zariyat 49: And We created everything in pairs, so that you may take counsel. In this context; Since the universe is also a created servant, it should not be unique and only one. All created beings are paired. After the Apocalypse, only the "Floor of the Lord", that is, the Universes of the Hereafter, will remain, but he will still be living with those in more than one universe (the verses emphasize that the "heavens of the hereafter" and the "earths" will exist forever). In short; These verses also offer another, albeit indirect, explanation of the creation of more than one universe. Only God is unique. It is the case that the servants created by Allah have spouses (same or opposite), that is, more than one of them. None of this makes any sense in the English language. They are just random words. Please get someone who can translate correctly for you.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

18th November 2022, 07:48 PM	#2184
DetectedMotion Thinker Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 199	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr And for a better understanding of the issue: http://emre1974tr.blogspot.com/2011/...-to-quran.html https://free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9611687.0 What a stupid religion. You muslims puposely lie to take credit for everything even though your Quran has been edited many times over according to, according to, acording to....etc. Do you pratice Mu'tah, Emre?
DetectedMotion Thinker Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 199	Last edited by DetectedMotion; 18th November 2022 at 07:52 PM.

20th November 2022, 06:40 AM	#2185
Scorpion Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 3,276	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Indeed, like God says that our world is like an egg, both in outward appearance and in internal structure. The only translation I can find that says the earth is egg shaped is Rashad Khalifa, and he was killed for blasphemy by Muslims for corrupting the Quran. Quran verse 79.30 Khalifa -He made the earth egg-shaped. Pickthall- And after that He spread the earth. Shakir- And the earth, He expanded it after that. Sherali- And the earth, along with it, HE has spread forth. Yusufali - And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse);
Scorpion Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 3,276	__________________ You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God. Sri Ramakrishna Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six. Leo Tolstoy

21st November 2022, 12:40 AM	#2186
Scorpion Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 3,276	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr and from my old answers, about ants: You also said. 'Just the opposite. Science has once again proven that the holy Qur'an is right. Ants speak aloud, and this has just been discovered. Previously, it was thought that they only communicated with hormones.' Are you seriously telling us the following Quran verses are true? 27.18 Till, when they reached the Valley of the Ants, an ant exclaimed: O ants! Enter your dwellings lest Solomon and his armies crush you, unperceiving. 27.19 And (Solomon) smiled, laughing at her speech, and said: My Lord, arouse me to be thankful for Thy favour wherewith Thou hast favoured me and my parents, and to do good that shall be pleasing unto Thee, and include me in (the number of) Thy righteous slaves. King Solomon overheard an ant talking: Firstly do you really believe an ant can compose an intelligible sentence in a language that can be understood? Secondly how could a man possibly hear an ant talking when even if it shouted as loud as it could its sound would be so quiet it would be entirely inaudible to a man. I cannot believe you are seriously trying to justify the above verses in the Quran.
Scorpion Illuminator Join Date: Feb 2013 Posts: 3,276	__________________ You see many stars in the sky at night, but not when the sun rises. Can you therefore say there are no stars in the heavens during the day? O man because you cannot find God in the days of your ignorance, say not that there is no God. Sri Ramakrishna Even in the valley of the shadow of death two and two do not make six. Leo Tolstoy

21st November 2022, 11:00 AM	#2187
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,423	Originally Posted by Scorpion The only translation I can find that says the earth is egg shaped is Rashad Khalifa, and he was killed for blasphemy by Muslims for corrupting the Quran. As we learn from studying so many religions, one person's heretic is another person's prophet. So that doesn't necessary put Emre off. To be scrupulously fair, we can certainly note that if Khalifa's execution was for "corrupting the Qur'an" (among other crimes), then we should probably not rely upon his translation of this verse. But we cannot be certain this is one of the "corrupted" verses. So we want to look at a bigger picture. Quote: Quran verse 79.30 Sure, the first problem to solve is how correctly to translate دَحَاهَا. And it probably won't do any good to refer back to the discussion we had the last time this came up, where we point out that the vast majority of English translators and commentators render it "spread out," not at all inconsistent with the authorities you quote. And a number of people believe this indicates a flat Earth, "spread out" as one would carpet or a blanket -- a practice certainly familiar to nomadic inhabitants of the Middle East. The full lexicon of the many possible meanings of دَحَاهَا seems to convey a general action consistent with that image. The attempt to make دَحَاهَا refer to an actual shape (flat or spherical), much less an egg shape, seems to have only dubious support among native speakers and etymologists of Arabic and among Qur'an scholars. And as such it smacks of the tail wagging the dog. The interests of the minority of Muslims who want to see scientific justification in the Qur'an are groping to make this word describe a shape for the Earth that cannot have been known until modern techniques, even if it means they have to torture the Arabic language in order to get it to happen.

21st November 2022, 03:14 PM	#2188
Emre_1974tr Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Turkey Posts: 1,192	Holy Quran 72:16 And had they walked on a straight path, We would have provided them with abundant water. 72:17 To test them with it. And whoever turns away from the remembrance of his Lord, He will enter him a severe retribution. (The test of good people is usually with blessings and beauty) and; 10:98 Why was there not a single town that benefited from its acknowledgement, with the exception of the people of Jonah? When they acknowledged, We removed from them the retribution of disgrace in this worldly life, and We let them enjoy until a time. (The suffering of good people is also because they have some bad side. If this bad side is removed, so is the torment) In short, the good live a more beautiful and paradisiacal life in this world than the bad. But some good people also have some bad sides. They pay for them with some hardships in this world and with a lower rank in paradise.

21st November 2022, 03:50 PM	#2189
JayUtah Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: The great American West Posts: 22,423	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Holy Are you not paying attention to the discussion going on around you?

22nd November 2022, 01:39 AM	#2190
DetectedMotion Thinker Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 199	Originally Posted by JayUtah Are you not paying attention to the discussion going on around you? He's avoiding it; According to him (Since there are many interpretations of the Quran that are According to this scholar, according to that scholar....etc.), the Quran has evolved (apparently some decided that it had to) into a more modern day Bill Nye science try. Emre don't even like the hadith's anymore.
DetectedMotion Thinker Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 199	Last edited by DetectedMotion; 22nd November 2022 at 01:40 AM.

22nd November 2022, 05:05 AM	#2191
Crossbow Seeking Honesty and Sanity Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Charleston, WV Posts: 14,419	Originally Posted by JayUtah Are you not paying attention to the discussion going on around you? Considering the large volume of delusional postings that he has been writing over the last several weeks, then I would say that the answer to your question is "No. He is clearly not paying attention to the discussion going on around him.".
	__________________ On 29JUL2022, 'Gaetan' said: "We all know here that the moderators are for the use of firearms and they don't mind if some people recieve a bullet in their head." A man's best friend is his dogma.

22nd November 2022, 09:57 AM	#2192
DetectedMotion Thinker Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 199	Originally Posted by Scorpion The only translation I can find that says the earth is egg shaped is Rashad Khalifa, and he was killed for blasphemy by Muslims for corrupting the Quran. Quran verse 79.30 Khalifa -He made the earth egg-shaped. Pickthall- And after that He spread the earth. Shakir- And the earth, He expanded it after that. Sherali- And the earth, along with it, HE has spread forth. Yusufali - And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse); Allah doesn't even know what he created first; The earth or heaven??!! According to Surah 41:9, the earth was created first, then the heavens. 41:9 “He who created the earth in two days” here Allah started creating the Earth. 41:10 “And He placed on the earth firmly set mountains over its surface,” Allah created mountains on the surface of the Earth. 41:11 “THEN He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke” It’s important to notice the word then, meaning “afterwards” signifying that once the Earth was created Allah created heaven. According to Surah 79:27-30, the heavens were created first, then the earth. 79:27 “Are you a more difficult creation or is the heaven? Allah constructed it.” Here Allah starts creating heaven first not the Earth. 79:28 “He raised its ceiling and proportioned it.” 79:29 “And He darkened its night and extracted its brightness.” 79:30 “And after that He spread the earth.” Pretty sad when the "best of the creators" doesn't know what it had first created.
DetectedMotion Thinker Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 199

24th November 2022, 07:50 PM	#2193
Emre_1974tr Graduate Poster Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Turkey Posts: 1,192	again; Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr Examples: "Meanwhile, 41:11 and 41:12 verses about the arrangement of existing universes.(when they in gas/smoke form) 41:11 Furthermore, He settled to the heaven, while it was still gas, and He said to it, and to the earth: "Come willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly." 41:12 He then made them into seven heavens in two days, and He inspired to every universe its affair. We adorned the lowest universe with lamps, and for protection. Such is the design of the Noble, the Knowledgeable. The world is being created in these last two days. 41:11 And11 He [it is who] applied His design to the skies, which were [yet but] smoke;12 and He [it is who] said to them and to the earth, “Come [into being], both of you, willingly or unwillingly!" - to which both responded, “We do come in obedience." "41:11 and 41:12 about The arrangement of existing universes and the creation of the world. The world has been shaped in the last two days, so it was created. The existing universes were arranged.. That's why when the universe is six years old, the world is two years old."

24th November 2022, 08:21 PM	#2194
DetectedMotion Thinker Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 199	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr again; So you ignore Surah 79:27-30 According to Surah 79:27-30, the heavens were created first, then the earth. 79:27 “Are you a more difficult creation or is the heaven? Allah constructed it.” Here Allah starts creating heaven first not the Earth. 79:28 “He raised its ceiling and proportioned it.” 79:29 “And He darkened its night and extracted its brightness.” 79:30 “And after that He spread the earth.” Pretty sad when your Moon God is "best of the creators" and doesn't know what it had first created.
DetectedMotion Thinker Join Date: Jan 2018 Posts: 199

24th November 2022, 11:23 PM	#2195
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,280	Originally Posted by Emre_1974tr again; Quote: The world has been shaped in the last two days, so it was created. That's why when the universe is six years old, the world is two years old. I don't think you learned any basic arithmetic at school. Seriously, you didn't. It's that, or you have lost all touch with reality. I'll let you figure that out yourself.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}