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Old 30th December 2016, 01:11 PM   #641
Josarhus
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
This new AIA proposal has no less than 17 items that they deem suspicious - no mention of thermite or incendiaries.
The 2015 resolution (15-6) and 2016 resolution (16-3) also totally misses any reference to thermite.

It seems that AE911 ignoring thermite is not a new thing.
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Old 30th December 2016, 01:13 PM   #642
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2015 resolution 15-6

2016 resolution 16-3
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Last edited by Josarhus; 30th December 2016 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 30th December 2016, 01:27 PM   #643
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Hehe Josarhus, well spotted!

I had the exact same thought - to check the 2015+16 proposals - 20 minutes ago, and just posted a first result (links to the proposals, and to our 2015+16 threads) in the AIA 2017 thread.
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Old 31st December 2016, 04:39 PM   #644
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So this thread was created in March 2014 and we're about to enter a the brand new year of 2017, still no study after all this time.

I wonder if anyone who was dumb enough to donate money to this scam has considered calling the relevant authorities to see about getting their money back and having Mark Basile, along with Ziggi, charged with theft and/or fraud.
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Old 31st December 2016, 05:45 PM   #645
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
So this thread was created in March 2014 and we're about to enter a the brand new year of 2017, still no study after all this time.

I wonder if anyone who was dumb enough to donate money to this scam has considered calling the relevant authorities to see about getting their money back and having Mark Basile, along with Ziggi, charged with theft and/or fraud.
It will never happen all Basile has to say is he couldn't find any candidate chips.

He needs more money and more dust.
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Old 31st December 2016, 05:52 PM   #646
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
It will never happen all Basile has to say is he couldn't find any candidate chips.

He needs more money and more dust.
LOL, so I guess he will be returning the 5k any day now then.

Something tells me that will never happen, but maybe Ziggi will let us know when they plan to start.

I won't hold my breath.
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Old 31st December 2016, 05:55 PM   #647
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
LOL, so I guess he will be returning the 5k any day now then.

Something tells me that will never happen, but maybe Ziggi will let us know when they plan to start.

I won't hold my breath.
He will not be returning the money he will be fleecing the sheep for more.
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Old 20th January 2017, 09:12 AM   #648
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Ziggi, two weeks ago:

http://911debunkers.blogspot.de/2017...continues.html
"On December 27, 2016, I had a short phone conversation with Mr. Mark Basile. He continues to work on his red/gray chip study in his spare time and he will contact us as soon as he is ready to write up some results - which he hopes to do in a few months time. We apologize for the delays and thank our supporters for their patience. The results will be worth the wait. Finally, we would like to remind readers that new WTC dust samples are welcome in case anyone knows about a possible supply."
This documents three facts:
  1. Mark Basile is not actually working on the samples at all. A competent analyst would not need more than a few weeks.
  2. Mark Basile no longer intends to send any samples to any independent lab. For why else would HE be working on them?
  3. The samples that he has contain red-gray chips (he has shown examples years ago), but he know or at least suspects already that not a single one is actually "thermitic".
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Old 20th January 2017, 09:25 AM   #649
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Ziggi, two weeks ago:

http://911debunkers.blogspot.de/2017...continues.html
"On December 27, 2016, I had a short phone conversation with Mr. Mark Basile. He continues to work on his red/gray chip study in his spare time and he will contact us as soon as he is ready to write up some results - which he hopes to do in a few months time. We apologize for the delays and thank our supporters for their patience. The results will be worth the wait. Finally, we would like to remind readers that new WTC dust samples are welcome in case anyone knows about a possible supply."
This documents three facts:
  1. Mark Basile is not actually working on the samples at all. A competent analyst would not need more than a few weeks.
  2. Mark Basile no longer intends to send any samples to any independent lab. For why else would HE be working on them?
  3. The samples that he has contain red-gray chips (he has shown examples years ago), but he know or at least suspects already that not a single one is actually "thermitic".
Yes if someone else were to do a world trade center dust study, Ziggi would be up **** Creek, in a leaky canue without a paddle.
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Old 20th January 2017, 09:28 AM   #650
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4. Mark Basile "continues to work on his red/gray chip study in his spare time and he will contact us as soon as he is ready to write up some results - which he hopes to do in a few months time".
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Old 20th January 2017, 09:31 AM   #651
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
4. Mark Basile "continues to work on his red/gray chip study in his spare time and he will contact us as soon as he is ready to write up some results - which he hopes to do in a few months time".
I thought the aim of the study was for Mark Basile to send the chips to an independent lab for analysis, and then publicise the results. If so, what exactly is he "working" on?

Dave
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Old 20th January 2017, 09:36 AM   #652
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Is there any reason to believe an "update" from Ziggi is reliable?
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Old 20th January 2017, 09:36 AM   #653
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
4. Mark Basile "continues to work on his red/gray chip study in his spare time and he will contact us as soon as he is ready to write up some results - which he hopes to do in a few months time".
Oh yes we heard that before, however there is something you truthers don't know,
Imbecile's study is not the only one.
Imbecile needs to hurry or it will not matter what he finds, his study will be irrelevant!
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Old 20th January 2017, 09:37 AM   #654
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
I thought the aim of the study was for Mark Basile to send the chips to an independent lab for analysis, and then publicise the results. If so, what exactly is he "working" on?

Dave
He can't fake results that way.
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Old 20th January 2017, 10:08 AM   #655
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
4. Mark Basile "continues to work on his red/gray chip study in his spare time and he will contact us as soon as he is ready to write up some results - which he hopes to do in a few months time".
Really?

24th November 2015, 05:42 PM
Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
..........
As far as the study goes, nothing much has changed. Mr. Basile is still working on the study and he will give us an update when he is ready. The only possible change is that he will most likely give the next update when he is done with this round of testing and has some concrete results, instead of providing miniature updates at some specified intervals as had originally been planned.

Watch for news at 911debunkers.blogspot.com/
That "update" from Ziggi, was over a year ago.

Shall we check back again in another year, or just check in every second year?

Last edited by jaydeehess; 20th January 2017 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 20th January 2017, 10:12 AM   #656
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This is getting a bit like the Brilliant Light and Power thread - there are some impressive results due in a couple of months, and they've been due in a couple of months for the last few years. Definitely not a scam to fleece the gullible, no way.

Dave
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Old 20th January 2017, 10:17 AM   #657
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The question from his supporters should be, what are you testing for?

Mark only had to separate out candidate chips, the independent lab would do all the tests. The criterion for separation is defined in the original paper.
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Old 20th January 2017, 10:24 AM   #658
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
The question from his supporters should be, what are you testing for?

Mark only had to separate out candidate chips, the independent lab would do all the tests. The criterion for separation is defined in the original paper.
The question that needs to be ask is why haven't the twoofers Tar and feathered (figuratively speaking,) Ziggi, and Basile, for ripping them off?

Looks like we should all be ripping off truthers they are so gullible.
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Old 20th January 2017, 10:25 AM   #659
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
4. Mark Basile "continues to work on his red/gray chip study in his spare time and he will contact us as soon as he is ready to write up some results - which he hopes to do in a few months time".
The entire scope of the project was to select suitable candidate chips and submit them to an independent lab. That's it.

Does this latest update sound anything like the initial scope?
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Old 20th January 2017, 10:30 AM   #660
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
4. Mark Basile "continues to work on his red/gray chip study in his spare time and he will contact us as soon as he is ready to write up some results - which he hopes to do in a few months time".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
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Old 20th January 2017, 11:53 AM   #661
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Really?

24th November 2015, 05:42 PM


That "update" from Ziggi, was over a year ago.

Shall we check back again in another year, or just check in every second year?
Well, "a few months" is a subjective concept. For some people, "more than 60 months" may still be "a few".
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Old 20th January 2017, 12:02 PM   #662
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Well, "a few months" is a subjective concept. For some people, "more than 60 months" may still be "a few".
True. A local marine sales company was advertising boats and their credit offerings.
You could get a decent fishing boat for "only" X per month. Looked good except the fine print noted the term was 120 months.
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Old 20th January 2017, 04:43 PM   #663
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Jam tomorrow.
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Old 20th January 2017, 09:56 PM   #664
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It's now January 2017, and still no evidence from Mark Basile.
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Old 21st January 2017, 12:51 AM   #665
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
4. Mark Basile "continues to work on his red/gray chip study in his spare time and he will contact us as soon as he is ready to write up some results - which he hopes to do in a few months time".
You are forgetting the deal: People have sent him $5000 so he would NOT do the work himself. The deal was, he would separate candidate red-gray chips and send them to an independent lab!

Please acknowledge
a) That $5000 were solicited on the premise that it be spent on independent labs
b) That Ziggi doesn't mentioned independent labs any longer.

Please explain how b) squares with a)!
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Old 21st January 2017, 06:10 AM   #666
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Well, doing some amateur tests by himself would allow him to keep the money... just an idea.
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Old 21st January 2017, 06:24 AM   #667
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Well, doing some amateur tests by himself would allow him to keep the money... just an idea.
He might just want to buy some red chips and send them to a lab and confirm thermite.

http://www.urekem-paints.com/metallic-car-paint-colors
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Old 21st January 2017, 01:29 PM   #668
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Originally Posted by rogers619 View Post
Any news on the research project that Mark Basile has put together?

According to ANETA.org, they reached their goal in January and that the study is in progress.

Also, what lab did they decide was the best for this study?
Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
24th November 2015, 05:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
..........
As far as the study goes, nothing much has changed. Mr. Basile is still working on the study and he will give us an update when he is ready. The only possible change is that he will most likely give the next update when he is done with this round of testing and has some concrete results, instead of providing miniature updates at some specified intervals as had originally been planned.

Watch for news at 911debunkers.blogspot.com/
That "update" from Ziggi, was over a year ago.

Shall we check back again in another year, or just check in every second year?
In a post moved to AAH for other reasons, Ziggi stated
Quote:
The original plan was and remains to have independent testing confirming Basile results, and it laid out proposals for tests that Basile had not yet performed. We did not think it would take him 3 years of new tests, but it has, and he continues working on it.
I suppose we could consider that an update on the Basile report.

At some point between originally stating the intention to produce an independent report, and the present (January 2017), Basile noticed it would take as long as it has. We can narrow it down a bit more since Ziggi did not mention this in 2014 or 2015, that the difficulties were not noticed until sometime in 2016 or very early in 2017.

OR, maybe it was noticed but not stated until this month.

If there is a third choice I will stand corrected.
On the assumption that this is a proper dichotomy they beg further questions.
If no one realized it would take at least three years then an explanation as to why this does not indicate incompetance is required.
AND
If it was understood at an earlier than the past year but not voiced, then it begs the question as to why it wasn't.

Surely Ziggi will be addressing this soon (my word so let me define "soon". "Within the next two weeks" seems to me a very generous definition of soon in this case)

Last edited by jaydeehess; 21st January 2017 at 01:31 PM.
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Old 21st January 2017, 02:28 PM   #669
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In April 2014 Basile claimed test were already being done by "independent lab technicians".

No update on what tests or results. No progress at all reported since then.
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Old 21st January 2017, 02:31 PM   #670
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
In April 2014 Basile claimed test were already being done by "independent lab technicians".
I don't recall this.
Citation?
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Old 21st January 2017, 02:32 PM   #671
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I don't recall this.
Citation?
It was noted in post #7 of this thread. I'll see if I can find the original citation.
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Old 21st January 2017, 02:47 PM   #672
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
It was noted in post #7 of this thread. I'll see if I can find the original citation.
You can find it on MarkBasile.org if you click through the "Please Help Donate" link that is highlighted in green.
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Old 21st January 2017, 02:54 PM   #673
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Originally Posted by benthamitemetric View Post
You can find it on MarkBasile.org if you click through the "Please Help Donate" link that is highlighted in green.
You are correct. It's under a caption, "Progress so far form Mark".

Quote:
Money has been raise an tests have begun by independent lab technicians.
The typo quoted in post #7 is still there.

The date is not indicated but the date of the post in this thread backs the April date.
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Old 21st January 2017, 03:10 PM   #674
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The April post also shows the first departure from the original study plan. A departure that did not go unnoticed on this site. (see post #8)
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Old 21st January 2017, 04:08 PM   #675
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
I don't recall this.
Citation?
http://www.webcitation.org/query?url...ate=2017-01-21

I don't have a capture from 2014. Rick is very afraid of the wayback machine and has it blocked. https://web.archive.org/web/*/http:/...nate/index.htm
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Old 21st January 2017, 05:56 PM   #676
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Has there ever been a public accounting of the moneys raised? It occurs to me that the "project" may have oversubscribed a la The Producers. They may have collected many times more that $5,000. There are more than enough little old ladies suckers in the world.

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Old 21st January 2017, 07:04 PM   #677
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See the first link in my previous post.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 01:10 AM   #678
Oystein
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Thanks pgimeno, DGM, benthamitemetric for the citations.
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Old 22nd January 2017, 07:11 AM   #679
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In a post that was moved to AAH from another thread, where it was off-topic, Ziggi (who was just suspended for a week) made the following claim:
Originally Posted by Ziggi
Chris Mohr and Oystein and others here raised funds for their own Millette dust study and promised to deliver a published reviewed paper almost 5 years ago that never happened!
I ask Ziggi, upon his return, to provide a citation to back this up.
I certainly never promised a "published reviewed paper", for I never was in direct contact with Millette and had no control over this.

To the best of my recollection, Chris Mohr never "promised" a reviewed paper, only a lab report. He did relay the information that Millette wanted to publish a paper on WTC dust, but that was not part of the deal and not promised when soliciting the funds.

(I know of course that Ziggi, being mortally afraid to touch any of my questions, knowing each honest and straight answer would once more reveal as a fraud, will not reply. I'll score his non-reply as tacitly admitting that, once again, he boldly lied to us)
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Old 22nd January 2017, 08:47 AM   #680
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Originally Posted by Ziggi
”You do know that Chris Mohr and Oystein and others here raised funds for their own Millette dust study and promised to deliver a published reviewed paper almost 5 years ago that never happened!”
Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
”To the best of my recollection, Chris Mohr never "promised" a reviewed paper, only a lab report. He did relay the information that Millette wanted to publish a paper on WTC dust, but that was not part of the deal and not promised when soliciting the funds.”
On the 4th of January, 2012, Chris Mohr posted an email quote from his correspondence with Dr. Millette:

Originally Posted by chrismohr View Post
Hi all,

I'll let you know early next week how much money we've raised; unknown sums are now going through the Postal system and PayPals internationally.

Here's the Major Good News. When Jim Millette wrote me that email assuring me of his competence and integrity, he added a phrase that shows he plans on going far beyond what we are contracting him for. It also helps me understand his motivation for doing thousands of dollars worth of tests for $1000. I didn't include this at first because I would not hold him to his stated intention, but on second thought I think everyone deserves to know what I edited out when I first quoted him in an earlier post:

"Because we have not focused on this particular question in the past analyses, we are proceeding with a careful, forensic scientific study focused on the red-gray chips in a number of WTC dust samples. When I present the data, it will be in front of critical members of the forensic science community and when I publish, it will be in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. I am an independent researcher without an interest in how the research results come out."

The boldfacing is mine.

So, depending on whose side you're on, this will be either the first or the second ever peer-reviewed study of the WTC dust which focuses on the question of active thermitic material. Boys and girls, if this happens, it will be by far the most serious scientific study of this question since the Bentham paper first came out. Yes, I'm very excited, and am crossing my fingers in the hopes that enough money will come in because this I really want to see!
It certainly appears that Chris Mohr interpreted Dr. Millette’s words as a promise of more than a “lab report”.
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