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8th June 2015, 03:38 PM | #201 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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8th June 2015, 03:53 PM | #202 |
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What I remember from the discussions was that their data (the ones they published) varied in quality but not contradictory, their methodology sucked, the conclusions were self serving confirmation bias with unsupported opinions. What they did was to conduct tests, FTIR and others that they promised to release but did not, that Millette used to prove paint; this is scientific fraud. They lied to themselves first. Did you notice that when they described the gray layer -a homogenous plate of iron with a little carbon they didn't know what it was and concluded it needed further study to determine its purpose in thermite! "In addition, the gray-layer material demands further study. What is its purpose? Sometimes the gray material appears in multiple layers, as seen in Fig.(32)." It was easy for Millette to identify steel. |
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In Your Guts You Know They're Nuts. "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard . "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. "- Marcus Aurelius A Truther is a True Believer convinced by lies. You can't reason someone out of a thing they weren't reasoned into.There's a sucker born every minute-Barnum |
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8th June 2015, 06:24 PM | #203 |
Illuminator
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More seriously, though, BasqueArch has a point. Harrit said that the resistivity test was done on a random sample of chips, yet they published the results for only one of them without reference to the other results. I hope Basile does a better job. As Feynman put it:
For example, if you're doing an experiment, you should report everything that you think might make it invalid--not only what you think is right about it: other causes that could possibly explain your results; and things you thought of that you've eliminated by some other experiment, and how they worked--to make sure the other fellow can tell they have been eliminated.http://neurotheory.columbia.edu/~ken/cargo_cult.html |
9th June 2015, 08:05 AM | #204 |
a carbon based life-form
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9th June 2015, 06:58 PM | #205 |
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10th June 2015, 06:37 PM | #206 |
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The first stories that I can find of Basile's nanothermite project are from late 2010. So that's over 4 1/2 years now for something that would take only days to do and could be financed with a credit card.
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10th June 2015, 07:14 PM | #207 |
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Basile seems like a nice guy and means well. But in science meaning well is not enough you have to be right. He has been duped, and a duper, a sucker and responsible for persuading other suckers of his false claims.
He now has to ask himself - should (1) I admit to my conspiracist buddies I and you have been wrong all along or (2) should I say nothing and hope it will all go away and I can live with myself without being called to accounts and expose myself to peer and debunker public humiliation. My most important goal is to be happy with myself- (3) what's the most believable reason I can come up with to quietly bow out of this whole fiasco. Of course I'm honest and meant well, I will return all the unspent monies. I believe (3). |
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In Your Guts You Know They're Nuts. "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard . "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. "- Marcus Aurelius A Truther is a True Believer convinced by lies. You can't reason someone out of a thing they weren't reasoned into.There's a sucker born every minute-Barnum |
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11th June 2015, 12:41 AM | #208 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I don't get this.
"Meaning well" implies "going to do honest science and intend to publish the results, no matter what they are". Why should it be a problem for Basile to just do exactly what he proposed to do? Send red-gray chips to labs along with the money? Relieves him of the burden to be the one who produced the damning results. He does not depend professionally or personally on Harrit or Jones, does he? He's attached enough disclaimers to his statements in the past to be able to save face. |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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11th June 2015, 05:30 AM | #209 |
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I think it's at least possible that there is a study underway now. I had the same problem when I tried to work with Kevin Ryan on the red-grey chips years ago. No trust. They fear that one of us will somehow sabotage the study so they are keeping it from us. Then there will be a final report for everyone to see.
But the longer this drags on, the less credible this benign hypothesis seems. Time will tell I suppose. |
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11th June 2015, 06:02 AM | #210 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Agreed, Chris, and I have always stressed that I ultimately trust in Basile's character, but time really is not on his side here. He made a promise to do monthly accounting once funds begin to get spent. Here is a complete enumeration of the possibilities:
a) Funds have not yet begun to get spent (i.e. no study at professional labs underway) b) Mark broke his promise c) Mark is dead None of these possibilities bodes well for him. |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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11th June 2015, 09:49 AM | #211 |
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Oystein,
(d) Mark has a new girlfriend, which would hopefully bode well for him! |
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20 videos rebutting Blueprint for Truth YouTube keyword chrismohr911 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC3JgWkNNIQ Playlists http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...eature=viewall and http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...eature=viewall WTC Dust study http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/911...12webHiRes.pdf Hundreds more links and info both sides: http:www.chrismohr911.com |
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11th June 2015, 01:25 PM | #212 |
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(e) Mark has separated out the samples (about a year ago) but, can't get a check out of Rick to send them for analysis.
Mark has seen the light and knows where the money has gone. |
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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11th June 2015, 01:47 PM | #213 |
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I lost interest years ago actually following "truther" sites. Has any of these sites (I'm not even sure there are any left) questioned what happened to this study?
Just as a side. What "truther" forums are left? |
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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11th June 2015, 02:05 PM | #214 |
Loggerheaded, earth-vexing fustilarian
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11th June 2015, 03:18 PM | #215 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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11th June 2015, 03:24 PM | #216 |
Penultimate Amazing
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911Blogger still has some life. Most of the posts there are either ae911truth news items, or concerned with politics, whether directly related to 9/11 or not. Plus Jon Gold promoting his... oh I never checked what he has - a video blog or something. Plus Corbett report announcements.
Very little technical arguments, nothing on thermite or explosives in a few months. I have a lazy eye on a couple of facebook groups (those that haven't banned me already). But mostly on their numbers, not their content. |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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11th June 2015, 03:33 PM | #217 |
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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11th June 2015, 03:49 PM | #218 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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11th June 2015, 05:41 PM | #219 |
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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13th June 2015, 08:54 AM | #220 |
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He's not getting the answers he would like, so delay, delay, delay...
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Conspiracy theories are for morons, who like to feel they are smarter than everyone else… |
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13th June 2015, 11:11 AM | #221 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I am still somewhat confident that he hasn't come around to mailing something of to labs - procrastination or real life issues, sth like that.
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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14th June 2015, 12:19 PM | #222 |
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And now a brief musical interlude while we await Basile's Thermite Study denouement.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xus...ene_shortfilms |
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In Your Guts You Know They're Nuts. "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard . "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. "- Marcus Aurelius A Truther is a True Believer convinced by lies. You can't reason someone out of a thing they weren't reasoned into.There's a sucker born every minute-Barnum |
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14th June 2015, 01:24 PM | #223 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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14th June 2015, 02:31 PM | #224 |
Illuminator
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Wow, 4:33 suddenly got an entirely different meaning.
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14th June 2015, 04:32 PM | #225 |
Illuminator
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I've never been a musical person.
A few of my friends are. I got pressured into "playing bass" during a Friday night round a friend's house after one of the lads had brought round a home built cajón. I was instructed to to "play" a note 4 times and then repeated for a total of 12 and then a different note 4 times to make up the 16. I think the 4 notes together are called a "bar". I know all about this music malarky you see. After about 15 minutes I began to pick it up and this little impromptu jam session began to take form with a friend on the cajon, and two on guitar (one electric, the other acoustic). All of a sudden things "clicked" and I could actually feel a cohesion; I could actually hear what the others were playing in time with what I was 90 seconds after this point it all went "pear-shaped" as I played 5 notes to the bar. There was laughter all around. Apparently the concentration on my face was a delight to watch as I tried to do something so rudimentary! I did indeed have my tongue out to the side and brow furrowed, like a child, whilst concentrating wholeheartedly on the timing. There's more chance of me becoming competent with a musical instrument than seeing the results from Basile's study. Unless it's the triangle of course, which I mastered age 6 during a school nativity play. Ting! |
14th June 2015, 07:29 PM | #226 |
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Sorry Oystein, Wagner’s Parsifal is a 4.5 hr long haul bore, too many notes.
“I have been told that Wagner's music is better than it sounds.” -- Mark Twain, Autobiography (1924) “That kind of opera that starts at six o'clock and after it has been going three hours you look at your watch and it says 6.20.” -- David Randolph on Wagner's opera Parzifal (Parsifal) Don’t even ask Nietzsche’s assessment. The haul is over; Humes’ Proportional Evidence Law has proven all of the Truther’s paranoid fantasies wrong. New suckers are born every day and their pipsqueak opinions will plague humanity like fleas do. Short and rock ‘n roll is all that’s left. Thanks for your help on the thermite issue. |
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In Your Guts You Know They're Nuts. "There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn't true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true." -Kierkegaard . "The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane. "- Marcus Aurelius A Truther is a True Believer convinced by lies. You can't reason someone out of a thing they weren't reasoned into.There's a sucker born every minute-Barnum |
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15th June 2015, 12:38 AM | #227 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Speaking of John Cage, they are performing his Organ²/ASLSP ("As SLow As Possible") as I write, in Halberstadt, Germany. The performance began on September 5, 2001 with a pause of 17 months. "The last note change occurred on October 5, 2013. The next change will not occur until 2020. The performance is scheduled to end on September 5, 2640."WP
http://www.aslsp.org/de/ That's the fitting musical score. It's only eight pages of music! I am sure even Sunstealer could learn to play it on the go. |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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15th June 2015, 12:26 PM | #228 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Three and two days ago, two truthers at 911Blogger inquired about the progress:
dtg86: ?
Originally Posted by dtg86
Originally Posted by RL McGee
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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24th June 2015, 12:41 AM | #229 | |||
Penultimate Amazing
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While we are waiting, I have to share this:
(The 10-hour version of "Hitler - Gangnam Style" isn't as well done at the seams) |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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25th June 2015, 07:48 PM | #230 |
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Oystein,
FYI I performed a world premiere live of John Cage's "15 Domestic Minutes," which was great fun for all of us public radio geeks-- but something like 9 people at National Public Radio got fired the next day for airing it! I was Turntable 2 in Denver, playing randomly selected tracks with ten other DJs around the country at the same time. The John Cage piece As Slow As Possible is a great way to ensure immortality in that his music is now guaranteed to be performed uninterrupted for centuries to come. And yes, Sunstealer could have played my part. |
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20 videos rebutting Blueprint for Truth YouTube keyword chrismohr911 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC3JgWkNNIQ Playlists http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...eature=viewall and http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...eature=viewall WTC Dust study http://dl.dropbox.com/u/64959841/911...12webHiRes.pdf Hundreds more links and info both sides: http:www.chrismohr911.com |
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26th June 2015, 03:24 PM | #231 |
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Has Mark actually published the exact criteria he used (or will use) to select the correct chip?
Arguments I've seen lately seem to indicate you need to destroy the sample in order to know if it's right. How can you do an independent study if you never know if the sample is correct? I doubt it but, maybe our resident "truther" representative Ziggi could answer this. |
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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26th June 2015, 03:34 PM | #232 |
Penultimate Amazing
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In his old lab proposal, he wrote:
Originally Posted by Mark Basile
In his latest, August 2014, report, he wrote:
Originally Posted by Mark Basile
However, Rick Shaddock has told me in private emails that thermal testing is off the schedule. I believe this refers to tests proposed to be done by the labs after selection. Not sure. |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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26th June 2015, 04:02 PM | #233 |
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Originally Posted by Mark Basile
I'd be interested to see if Ziggi also sees this as a fatal flaw in the independence of this study. |
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"Remember that the goal of conspiracy rhetoric is to bog down the discussion, not to make progress toward a solution" Jay Windley "How many leaves on the seventh branch of the fourth tree?" is meaningless when you are in the wrong forest: ozeco41 |
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26th June 2015, 11:55 PM | #234 |
Penultimate Amazing
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I'd be interested to see if Ziggi also sees themal testing as a necessary step of the chip selection process, a criterion that no researcher can do without. And then if he agrees that Harrit et al never subjected chips a-d and the MEK chip to thermal testing (or failed to document that they did). It would be very interesting to see if Ziggi also sees this failure as a terminal flaw of the Harrit et al paper, instantly invalidating all results and conclusions, for they may very well have looked at the "wrong" chips all along.
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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27th June 2015, 04:37 AM | #235 |
Illuminator
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It's hilarious if truthers think that heating a chip up to 700°C in order to get the correct exotherm, thereby destroying it in the process, is some how a necessary step in selecting the "right" chip.
How do they expect an independent lab to do work on a "the right sort" of chip when it has been destroyed? |
27th June 2015, 04:44 AM | #236 |
Illuminator
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Maybe they hope to find aluminium oxide in the residue?
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27th June 2015, 05:47 AM | #237 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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2nd August 2015, 10:55 AM | #238 |
Philosopher
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Well, it's August and Basile's donors still don't even have an excuse for why there's been no progress report in the past year. Is anyone sure that Basile is still around, or did the NWO disappear him?
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2nd August 2015, 12:23 PM | #239 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Mark took a remedial physics class and figured out his claims on 911 were idiotic BS based on ... idiotic BS, a recursive kind of ignorance. So he dropped the study, and drank the money...
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"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" - Albert Einstein "... education as the means of developing our greatest abilities" - JFK |
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3rd August 2015, 02:34 AM | #240 |
Penultimate Amazing
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Ziggi must have read your plea - or he even reacted very quickly to an email that I wrote Rick Shaddock (Cc: JM Talboo, Mark Basile) about 12.5 hours ago. Here is what he posted their (Ziggi's, JM's, Adam Taylor's...) blog "Debunking the Debunkers":
Mark Basile Red/Gray Chip Study Back on Track Sounds good? Well... read the full text:
Originally Posted by Ziggi Zugam
In other words: "Nothing has been done in one year. Sorry for procrastinating. The money looked real pretty in our bank account, thanks for throwing it at us!" [ETA] Quite revealing of the truther mindset is this sentence: "Mark Basile will ... delegate work to an independent lab ... in order to confirm his own results". The objective therefore is not analyze the red material and establish once and for all what it really is, and all its constituents (the identity of the organic binder, the identity of all the pigments, the exact composition of the gray oxidize structural steel layer) - no, the objective os to confirm their silly prejudice. They still don't grasp that among Mark's results was that he determined that the Al- and Fe- content is so extremely low (under 2 and 3%, respectively), compared to the organic content (>70%), that the observed exotherm reaction (the energy yield) must have been fulled to >99% by organic combustion on air - not a thermite reaction [/ETA] Perhaps Ziggi, when he reads this, can elaborate a bit on all the great things Mark hasn't done! |
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Thermodynamics hates conspiracy theorists. (Foster Zygote) The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected. (Gilbert Keith Chesterton) |
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