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Tags defamation cases , lawsuits , media criticism , Nathan Phillips , Nick Sandmann , protest incidents , racism charges

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Old 21st January 2019, 09:13 AM   #241
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Did anyone suggest any group should be arrested?
Travis and Big Dog want the entire "other side" cleansed from the Earth to hear them talk.
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:13 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Literally have to spoon feed people.
Force feed. Spoon feeding requires some measure of acceptance.
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:13 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
isn't this exactly how Freedom of speech is supposed to work?

Groups with differing backgrounds and beliefs, talking in a public square, without resorting to violence?
Yeah but that applies only to proper speech okayed by the moral authorities.
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:14 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Travis and Big Dog want the entire "other side" cleansed from the Earth to hear them talk.
I haven't heard TBD say that. Maybe he can clarify. As for Travis's posts, well...
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:16 AM   #245
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
Travis and Big Dog want the entire "other side" cleansed from the Earth to hear them talk.
Pointing out that people are making death threats, are doxxing the high school kids, etc?

While I find your repeated concern trolling incredibly boring, at least try to address the points I am making instead of making up farcical claims like this.
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:20 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
While I find your repeated concern trolling incredibly boring, at least try to address the points I am making instead of making up farcical claims like this.
Go start a thread to whine about it FMF then.
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:21 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Thanks for the link. It's refreshing to see that we're having a productive conversation for once, and on politics, to boot!

For the record, I have no problem with such a tilt in a profession, just like I don't have a problem with a conservative tilt in government.
There's not really any point to having a problem with such a tilt, because it will happen regardless. Sometimes such a tilt can be increased or enforced by discriminatory methods, and that's a problem, but people's preferences are going to end up correlating to some extent with their politics, just like they correlate with other factors (such as sex), so tilts are inevitable.

Quote:
But 79 to 21, really? No independants or non-respondants?
That's an artifact of their measurement technique.
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:23 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
Nor I, though he seems rather... reflexively anti-left.

Logger, however, was more direct about it.
From my own perspective all these groups should be allowed to say anything they like. If this thread was simply somebody posting the video I wouldn't even bother to reply. A bunch of idiots, some worse than others, who cares? What I object to is this searing hypocrisy from the left who suddenly become selectively deaf to blatant hate speech when it suits, and prefer to vilify a bunch of kids because Trump.
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:23 AM   #249
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Random folks calling for a school shooting in Covington

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status...68396214198273

You see, he was there to defuse the situation, and keep those high school beasts from offending the actual hate school "prey."

I assume that Joe will let me know shortly if this post is acceptable.... oh dear, guess not.
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:28 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
From my own perspective all these groups should be allowed to say anything they like. If this thread was simply somebody posting the video I wouldn't even bother to reply. A bunch of idiots, some worse than others, who cares? What I object to is this searing hypocrisy from the left who suddenly become selectively deaf to blatant hate speech when it suits, and prefer to vilify a bunch of kids because Trump.
It's only racist when it comes from the right and the white (and that even rhymes).
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:50 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
From my own perspective all these groups should be allowed to say anything they like. If this thread was simply somebody posting the video I wouldn't even bother to reply. A bunch of idiots, some worse than others, who cares? What I object to is this searing hypocrisy from the left who suddenly become selectively deaf to blatant hate speech when it suits, and prefer to vilify a bunch of kids because Trump.
This. The racist, bigoted, homophobic caricature of teenagers wearing MAGA hats the left has constructed in their heads was on full display at the Lincoln Memorial. The only problem is it wasn't the white kids displaying that caricature, it was the black guys who were. Now that it is proven that someone other than white Donald Trump supporters were behaving in this manner, it's time to tone down the rhetoric and reconsider jumping to conclusions without all the facts.
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Old 21st January 2019, 09:51 AM   #252
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Anyway, the good news is we have all learnt something from this:

1) not to jump to conclusions without seeing the context in which the outrage de jour occurred in

2)
Edited by kmortis:  Removed reference to previously moderated content


3) spend more time outside than bitching on the internet: seriously! If there is one thing those native Americans, black Israelites and white MaGA kids had in common it was that they were enjoying some good old fashioned face-to-face banter which is so refreshing in a world where the average political engagement is to make virtual death threats, engage in doxxing, call people rapists and racists and peados online without any real world consequences. I would almost go as far as to say it was a touching display of multicultural bonding.
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Old 21st January 2019, 10:12 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by Bogative View Post
This. The racist, bigoted, homophobic caricature of teenagers wearing MAGA hats the left has constructed in their heads was on full display at the Lincoln Memorial. The only problem is it wasn't the white kids displaying that caricature, it was the black guys who were. Now that it is proven that someone other than white Donald Trump supporters were behaving in this manner, it's time to tone down the rhetoric and reconsider jumping to conclusions without all the facts.
This might blow your mind, but actually BOTH were. The chop, the mocking dance, etc.

I haven't seen one person on this forum defend the black ********. I haven't seen a single one. Did Phillips? It certainly looks like it, but he isn't representative of "the left". I'm part of "the left" and I don't react at all like TBD has said my people and I react. Hell, this whole thread has been him accusing "the left" of wanting to kill these kids, he attributes every statement from every dumb **** that identifies as left wing to every single one of us. It's actually retarded by the literal definition. It slows\bogs down the conversation.

Now, yes, the left wing media, and the bulk of others should have gone for full coverage rather than sound bites. I see people here on both sides acknowledging that.
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Old 21st January 2019, 10:14 AM   #254
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"Dueling Narratives"

"Sandmann, in the statement later tweeted by CNN’s Jake Tapper, said he and his peers were responding to the Hebrew Israelite protesters.

“'Because we were being loudly attacked and taunted in public, a student in our group asked one of our teacher chaperones for permission to begin our school spirit chants to counter the hateful things that were being shouted at our group,' Sandmann said." Daily Beast.
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Old 21st January 2019, 10:26 AM   #255
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I see very much is being made of Phillips claim that he was a Vietnam Vet, who served in the Marines.

The last combat Marines left Viet Nam in 1971, which would have made our hero 17 years old at the time.

Claims to have been something called a "Marine Recon Ranger"??

Is that even a thing?

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Old 21st January 2019, 10:49 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I see very much is being made of Phillips claim that he was a Vietnam Vet, who served in the Marines.
By whom?

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
The last combat Marines left Viet Nam in 1971, which would have made our hero 17 years old at the time.

Hmmmmm.
So what does that mean? He couldn't have possibly served in Viet Nam? Is that your claim?

I don't care either way, it's just tough to pin down what you're actually saying because your posting style is to be as vague as possible to avoid making any actual claim. I.e. this post.
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Old 21st January 2019, 10:54 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
By whom?



So what does that mean? He couldn't have possibly served in Viet Nam? Is that your claim?

I don't care either way, it's just tough to pin down what you're actually saying because your posting style is to be as vague as possible to avoid making any actual claim. I.e. this post.
I am not making a claim, others including the OP and Phillips are making the claim.

He said he was a marine combat infantryman in VietNam, and I am skeptical given the fact he was no more than 17 years old when the last combat marines left Viet Nam. In fact, if he joined the Marines on his birthday, his training would have to have been significantly curtailed for him to have made it to Viet Nam before the last combat troops were removed.

Sure it could have happened, I'd like to see if it really did.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:05 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I am not making a claim, others including the OP and Phillips are making the claim.
Originally Posted by The Big Dog
I see very much is being made of Phillips claim that he was a Vietnam Vet, who served in the Marines.
You did make a claim. You said that "very much is being made of..." etc. I'm asking where you are seeing that claim, as it's not in this thread.

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
He said he was a marine combat infantryman in VietNam, and I am skeptical given the fact he was no more than 17 years old when the last combat marines left Viet Nam. In fact, if he joined the Marines on his birthday, his training would have to have been significantly curtailed for him to have made it to Viet Nam before the last combat troops were removed.
PBS is saying that they didn't leave until 1973 or, for some, even later:

Quote:
The last American combat soldiers leave South Vietnam, though military advisors and Marines, who are protecting U.S. installations, remain. For the United States, the war is officially over. Of the more than 3 million Americans who have served in the war, almost 58,000 are dead, and over 1,000 are missing in action. Some 150,000 Americans were seriously wounded.
Which source did you use? Could be a conflict between the two

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Sure it could have happened, I'd like to see if it really did.
I'm sure it'll come out in the wash.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:11 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I see very much is being made of Phillips claim that he was a Vietnam Vet, who served in the Marines.

The last combat Marines left Viet Nam in 1971, which would have made our hero 17 years old at the time.

Claims to have been something called a "Marine Recon Ranger"??

Is that even a thing?
Marine Recon is a thing:
United_States_Marine_Corps_Reconnaissance_Battalio ns

Some of those Marines go through the Army Ranger school

I think the definition of what is or is not a Vietnam Veteran includes people who served clear through the Fall of Saigon. Marines were the last U.S. military people out of Vietnam in 1975.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:15 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post

Two days ago there was a rally for forced birth degenerates in Washington DC. That same day some Native Americans decided to have a vigil with songs near the Vietnam Memorial (which is also near the Lincoln Memorial) ...Thankfully the man, Nathan Philips of the Omaha Tribe (and a Vietnam veteran) chose not to engage with evil that day and just continued his song.
Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You did make a claim. You said that "very much is being made of..." etc. I'm asking where you are seeing that claim, as it's not in this thread.
It is in the thread, as I already said, and there are hundreds of other sources

https://twitter.com/SenWarren/status...24484278095872

Do you have evidence that he served in Viet Nam like he claimed? Yes or No
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:15 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I am not making a claim, others including the OP and Phillips are making the claim.

He said he was a marine combat infantryman in VietNam, and I am skeptical given the fact he was no more than 17 years old when the last combat marines left Viet Nam. In fact, if he joined the Marines on his birthday, his training would have to have been significantly curtailed for him to have made it to Viet Nam before the last combat troops were removed.

Sure it could have happened, I'd like to see if it really did.
For starters, I haven't yet seen a claim in his words that Phillips was specifically a combat infantryman, but I'm not much of a military person so I may have missed the phrasing. Could you supply a quote?

Looking a bit at the timeline, it appears parts of the marines were involved there through 1975 in roles other than direct combat, like evacuating refugees.

In fact, here are two marines who were killed in Vietnam in 1975:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Char...d_Darwin_Judge
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:17 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
You did make a claim. You said that "very much is being made of..." etc. I'm asking where you are seeing that claim, as it's not in this thread.
Yeah, just another way of saying "people are saying".

For those members who are condemning "the left", it would be help if you identified precisely who, and precisely what they wrote/said to earn your condemnation. Not counting Philips, who clearly is full of it.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:19 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
Marine Recon is a thing:
United_States_Marine_Corps_Reconnaissance_Battalio ns

Some of those Marines go through the Army Ranger school

I think the definition of what is or is not a Vietnam Veteran includes people who served clear through the Fall of Saigon. Marines were the last U.S. military people out of Vietnam in 1975.
The last marine combat infantryman brigade left in 1971, you saying he was part of the guard force at the embassy?

17 year old "recon ranger" combat Marine?
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:22 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
For those members who are condemning "the left", it would be help if you identified precisely who, and precisely what they wrote/said to earn your condemnation. Not counting Philips, who clearly is full of it.
What's the point of arbitrarily declaring everyone part of one of only two sides if I can't use it to get angry quicker to feed my outrage addiction?
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:28 AM   #265
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My lasting impression is that the media has really screwed up badly in the last couple days, running stories (scoops) without proper context or fact-checking. First the Buzzfeed story on Friday, now this one.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:29 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
My lasting impression is that the media has really screwed up badly in the last couple days, running stories (scoops) without proper context or fact-checking. First the Buzzfeed story on Friday, now this one.
Report first, ask questions later.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:36 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
My lasting impression is that the media has really screwed up badly in the last couple days, running stories (scoops) without proper context or fact-checking. First the Buzzfeed story on Friday, now this one.
All of the articles I read about it hilited the person that broke the story and his issues in the past. I don't see that as a screw up really. It was news worthy that the claim was being made. As long as they identify it as possible ******** then I'm all good with it.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:36 AM   #268
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I'm no expert on the military but I was skeptical from the beginning about Phillips being a Marine in Vietnam. Maybe he was, I don't know enough to say, but seeing as he is happy to lie about his actions in a video three days ago, I can't see why we should believe him. Maybe he did go for six months as a radio operator or something. I can't imagine he made a great contribution and returned to the US all before his 17th birthday.

If he were a 'prominent' right-winger making this claim we would already have our answer. The media would have delved right in there, from the Huffington Post to the UK Guardian, and any discrepancy would be plastered all over the headlines. Somehow, though, I doubt his claims will ever be formally probed.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:38 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
What's the point of arbitrarily declaring everyone part of one of only two sides if I can't use it to get angry quicker to feed my outrage addiction?
Why do you keep posting the same thing, attacking posters for discussing the topic? I seem to remember a thread not so long ago where you got pretty outraged and, over the course of two full weeks, made what must be approaching 100 posts on the topic of a man asked to leave a yogurt shop.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:39 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
It is in the thread, as I already said, and there are hundreds of other sources



https://twitter.com/SenWarren/status...24484278095872



Do you have evidence that he served in Viet Nam like he claimed? Yes or No
You said people are making a big deal out of it. Mentioning it is not, to me, "making a big deal out of it". It's mentioning it. Just like it mentions, and other have also mentioned, that the small group of ******** are black. I don't see that as making a big deal out of it, just a fact that is being stated.

I'm also not claiming he's a Vietnam vet. I don't care. It doesn't excuse his behavior, no matter what service he performed for the US. I don't quite have the chub for people who serve in the military that others do. It's a choice. Respectable, but we all play our role.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:41 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Why do you keep posting the same thing, attacking posters for discussing the topic?
He's clearly attacking posters for being so damned partisan, not discussing the topic.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:42 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
He's clearly attacking posters for being so damned partisan, not discussing the topic.
It's thread drift. The partisan ways events are spun is easily related to this topic.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:44 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
He's clearly attacking posters for being so damned partisan, not discussing the topic.
But that is the topic. The issue is not a bunch of people behaving badly, it's the insane and hypocritical reaction to a bunch of people behaving badly, a reaction which comes almost entirely from the left. How can that be in dispute?
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:45 AM   #274
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
But that is the topic. The issue is not a bunch of people behaving badly, it's the insane and hypocritical reaction to a bunch of people behaving badly,
a reaction which comes almost entirely from the left. How can that be in dispute?
That isn't the point. The point is that posters in this thread, from both sides, have predictably segregated themselves into "sides", and I can understand Joe's mounting frustration with this sort of stuff.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:45 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
Why do you keep posting the same thing, attacking posters for discussing the topic?
I feel your definition of "topic" and my definition of "topic" aren't the same thing.

Here's a hint "Grrr Stupid libtards" (shakes fist) and "Grr Orange man bad!" (Shakes fist back) aren't the topic.

Since I don't see any active threads on this board entitled "A place for the dozen or so outrage addicts to go to use any excuse to shake your first at the other side to end and with no purpose" I'll stick my understanding of what is and isn't on topic, thanks a bunch.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:45 AM   #276
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Outrage faux pas
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:46 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I see very much is being made of Phillips claim that he was a Vietnam Vet, who served in the Marines.

The last combat Marines left Viet Nam in 1971, which would have made our hero 17 years old at the time.

Claims to have been something called a "Marine Recon Ranger"??

Is that even a thing?
all I've heard/seen is 'a veteran of the Vietnam era' which I found odd wording.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:47 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
But that is the topic. The issue is not a bunch of people behaving badly, it's the insane and hypocritical reaction to a bunch of people behaving badly, a reaction which comes almost entirely from the left. How can that be in dispute?
Hey help a guy out who's disinclined to take broad brush statements posted on the internet at face value...

Who precisely on the left has been hypocritical, and what precisely did they say?
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:55 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Hey help a guy out who's disinclined to take broad brush statements posted on the internet at face value...

Who precisely on the left has been hypocritical, and what precisely did they say?
You are asking me to cut and paste news articles from several dozen publications vilifying the school kids, ignoring the hate-mongering preachers and praising the trouble-making Native American?

Or are you artificially restricting the response to posts in this thread. In which case, you'll find I've answered this very question not so long ago.
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Old 21st January 2019, 11:58 AM   #280
Whip
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Yeah, just another way of saying "people are saying".

For those members who are condemning "the left", it would be help if you identified precisely who, and precisely what they wrote/said to earn your condemnation. Not counting Philips, who clearly is full of it.
https://www.wsls.com/news/national/n...rial-encounter


Quote:
The Hebrew Israelites begin by disparaging the students
Quote:
"Then you got those pompous bastards over there wearing Make America Great Again hats," one voice says. "Why you not angry at them?"
Quote:
"Y'all taking about peace, peace, peace -- there ain't gonna be no peace," the lead speaker shouts.
Quote:
"When has America been great for our people? When has the America ever been great for the North American Indians?" the main speaker shouts. "America ain't never been great. It only been great for you damn peckerwoods."
Quote:
As the crowd of students grows, some of the men criticize their "racist" MAGA hats. They call them "crackers" and "incest children." The video captures some students walking away.
Quote:
Then, the Hebrew Israelites return their focus to the students
Quote:
The men accuse them of reaping the benefits of slave labor. The men repeatedly use the n-word to refer to the black teens in the group, prompting cries from group. The men ask the students if the water they're drinking "tastes like incest" and call the students "young Klansmen."
as has been noted, there is 2 hours of video with all this documented. to even question this is laughable at this point.
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