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Tags Jeffrey Epstein , sex offenders , sex trafficking

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Old 19th August 2019, 08:13 PM   #641
kellyb
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
If this was Opposite-World, maybe.

You can't seriously think they believe they'd be held "more responsible" if an inmate flipped out and killed Epstein between checks than they would be for actual prison staff actually sleeping on duty, not checking on Epstein all night, AND fudging logs to try and cover their butts afterwards on top of it. You can't. I refuse to believe it.
I'm saying they might have felt like they'd be held more responsible if there was a murder AND actual prison staff actually sleeping on duty, not checking on Epstein all night, AND fudging logs to try and cover their butts afterwards on top of it.
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:03 PM   #642
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Epstein used his wealth to get his way.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had paid someone to kill him quicker and less painful than he could on his own.
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Old 19th August 2019, 09:20 PM   #643
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Epstein used his wealth to get his way.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had paid someone to kill him quicker and less painful than he could on his own.
The "partial hanging" method he supposedly used is supposed to be completely painless.
It doesn't break multiple neck bones, tho. Anything that would break bones would probably hurt.
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Old 19th August 2019, 11:34 PM   #644
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
The "celebrity pathologists" was present for Epstein's autopsy and was the coroner for years. He had the exact same job in the exact same city as the one who decided to call it suicide.

Going on Fox doesn't somehow make him a non-expert, does it?
It makes him a publicity hound - someone who doesn't get paid for giving headline material, not for being professional.
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Old 20th August 2019, 12:58 AM   #645
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
I'm saying they might have felt like they'd be held more responsible if there was a murder AND actual prison staff actually sleeping on duty, not checking on Epstein all night, AND fudging logs to try and cover their butts afterwards on top of it.
And you think that, considering the guards are evidently going down either way, the prison is going to give the murderer-inmate a free pass and even cover up his crime for him, hanging the whole thing on the prison staff alone, out of the kindness of their magnanimous hearts?
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Old 20th August 2019, 01:08 AM   #646
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YOU DON'T SAY: Epstein signed will less than 48 hours before his death

How about that.

It was suicide.
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Old 20th August 2019, 02:01 AM   #647
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
YOU DON'T SAY: Epstein signed will less than 48 hours before his death

How about that.

It was suicide.
Fake!
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Old 20th August 2019, 03:56 AM   #648
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
YOU DON'T SAY: Epstein signed will less than 48 hours before his death

How about that.

It was suicide.
Fool! The minute he signed it the PTB/MiB knew it would point to suicide, which made it the perfect time to bump him off.

Are they recruiting? I reckon I'm pretty good at this stuff and I need a bit of retirement income.
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Old 20th August 2019, 05:32 AM   #649
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
The "partial hanging" method he supposedly used is supposed to be completely painless.
It doesn't break multiple neck bones, tho. Anything that would break bones would probably hurt.

... if he was still conscious when they broke.
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Old 20th August 2019, 05:58 AM   #650
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Maybe Epstein doesn't deserve any better, but I think it all of this baseless speculation and Dr. Google, Pathology Expert belongs in CT. I apologize for contributing yesterday.
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Old 20th August 2019, 08:31 AM   #651
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
YOU DON'T SAY: Epstein signed will less than 48 hours before his death

How about that.

It was suicide.
Now, we just need to know who the beneficiary is and that’s your smoking gun: “queue bonobos”!
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Old 20th August 2019, 01:26 PM   #652
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Lawyers of the women fighting for Epstein's stuff.

I didn't know they could do that.

More power to them if they succeed.
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Old 20th August 2019, 01:51 PM   #653
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Originally Posted by Venom View Post
Lawyers of the women fighting for Epstein's stuff.

I didn't know they could do that.

More power to them if they succeed.
Yeah, his last will and testament may be as important as his last meal. Between litigation costs and civil payouts, his estate is likely to be zeroed out.
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Old 20th August 2019, 06:43 PM   #654
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
Now, we just need to know who the beneficiary is and that’s your smoking gun: “queue bonobos”!
Evidently he put the whole kit and kaboodle into a single trust. No individual beneficiaries named. Although it's possible the trust has instructions along those lines; the point of trusts often is to obscure and anonymize exactly such details.
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Old 21st August 2019, 12:27 AM   #655
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Pizzagate is real. It just does not involve pizza, and it is a bipartisan effort.

Are we going to keep letting the ruling class getting away with this ******

Are we going to keep licking their boots?

I suspect most of you will. Because the system is just so dang good. You love it, folks.
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Old 21st August 2019, 02:38 AM   #656
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Pizzagate is real.
Dude no.
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Old 21st August 2019, 02:03 PM   #657
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
Pizzagate is real. It just does not involve pizza, and it is a bipartisan effort.

Are we going to keep letting the ruling class getting away with this ******

Are we going to keep licking their boots?

I suspect most of you will. Because the system is just so dang good. You love it, folks.
Nope. It's not real.
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Old 24th August 2019, 10:23 PM   #658
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Far out

I have been pretty open since day one of my issues with literacy, but I think Prince Andy just stole my crown, for a tad dyssy

Did anyone actually check this before posting it?

Quote:
"I have said previously that it was a mistake and an error to see him after his release in 2010 and I can only reiterate my regret that I was mistaken to think that what I thought I knew of him was evidently not the real person, given what we now know.
What does that even mean?


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-49460263
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Old 25th August 2019, 02:24 AM   #659
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Quote:
"I have said previously that it was a mistake and an error to see him after his release in 2010 and I can only reiterate my regret that I was mistaken to think that what I thought I knew of him was evidently not the real person, given what we now know.
I hate this sort of shifting blame.

I made a mistake the other day when I trusted Google maps to tell me which roads were closed with the damage to Todbrook Reservoir dam. This was something that had (mildly) bad consequences for me.

Deciding to go to what seem like orgies hosted by a previously convicted sexual predator* at the least shows a complete lack of moral compass.

I guess he does indeed think it was a mistake, due to the negative PR consequences.

I guess it would be too much to ask for him to say that he's realised that his complete lack of moral compass has further damaged his image, so he'll outsource the role of conscience to an adviser.

*That he only met after the conviction. (Thanks Darat)
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Last edited by jimbob; 25th August 2019 at 03:27 AM. Reason: see posts below
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Old 25th August 2019, 03:11 AM   #660
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
I hate this sort of shifting blame.

I made a mistake the other day when I trusted Google maps to tell me which roads were closed with the damage to Todbrook Reservoir dam. This was something that had (mildly) bad consequences for me.

Deciding to go to what seem like orgies hosted by a convicted sexual predator at the least shows a complete lack of moral compass.

I guess he does indeed think it was a mistake, due to the negative PR consequences.

I guess it would be too much to ask for him to say that he's realised that his complete lack of moral compass has further damaged his image, so he'll outsource the role of conscience to an adviser.
It's actually worse than it first seems. He met Epstein after Epstein was released after being convicted. Whether he had seen anything or not he knew Epstein was a convicted sex offender at that point so before he decided to meet him.
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Old 25th August 2019, 03:22 AM   #661
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
It's actually worse than it first seems. He met Epstein after Epstein was released after being convicted. Whether he had seen anything or not he knew Epstein was a convicted sex offender at that point so before he decided to meet him.
Oh, yes, that's what I was trying to say with the "convicted sexual predator " line. Should have changed it to "previously convicted sexual predator"


than

ETA, reread what you were saying, so had missed the part that he didn't have a residual loyalty from beforehand.

Changed my previous post.
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Last edited by jimbob; 25th August 2019 at 03:29 AM.
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Old 25th August 2019, 03:35 AM   #662
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But it's all OK, as Andrew reckons he saw nothing untoward at Epstein's place. That foot massage that Andrew got from the young Russian woman was totally legit.
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Old 25th August 2019, 03:41 AM   #663
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
But it's all OK, as Andrew reckons he saw nothing untoward at Epstein's place. That foot massage that Andrew got from the young Russian woman was totally legit.
Yes, I can just imagine the conversation,

"Your Highness there's this billionaire who wants to meet you and is giving a party, he's just got out of jail, but I thought it impolite to ask what it was for, do you want to meet him? There will be lots of girls young enough to be your granddaughters"
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 25th August 2019, 03:48 AM   #664
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Yes, I can just imagine the conversation,

"Your Highness there's this billionaire who wants to meet you and is giving a party, he's just got out of jail, but I thought it impolite to ask what it was for, do you want to meet him? There will be lots of girls young enough to be your granddaughters"
...And you can even meet your old friend Ghislaine Maxwell. You know, Uncle Bob-bob-bob's daughter. You know, the guy who wiped out the Daily Mirror's pension funds, hiding behind wall after wall of '9999' Nick Leeson-type accounts purportedly propping it up? That one.

Come on, you must remember. She introduced you to that 17-year old chick who claims to have slept with you at least three times. You know, the one in the photo with you with your arm around her waist? That one?


Andrew says he knows nu-uuthing.
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Old 25th August 2019, 08:57 AM   #665
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
It's actually worse than it first seems. He met Epstein after Epstein was released after being convicted. Whether he had seen anything or not he knew Epstein was a convicted sex offender at that point so before he decided to meet him.
Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Yes, I can just imagine the conversation,

"Your Highness there's this billionaire who wants to meet you and is giving a party, he's just got out of jail, but I thought it impolite to ask what it was for, do you want to meet him? There will be lots of girls young enough to be your granddaughters"
Ah, Andrew did first meet Epstein in 1999

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49411215

So he wasn't convicted before meeting him. However, Andrew still met him after his release from prison, so it hardly exonerates Andrew.
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 25th August 2019, 09:23 AM   #666
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
Ah, Andrew did first meet Epstein in 1999

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49411215

So he wasn't convicted before meeting him. However, Andrew still met him after his release from prison, so it hardly exonerates Andrew.
Just the opposite, I'd have said.
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Old 11th September 2019, 07:43 AM   #667
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French Cops Appeal for Victims and Witnesses to Come Forward (Daily Beast, Sep. 11, 2019)

Quote:
The Paris prosecutor's office said three victims who have already come forward were interviewed by investigators in August and earlier this month, the last as recently as Monday.
French police appeal for victims, witnesses in Jeffrey Epstein case (France24, Sep. 11, 2019)
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Old 30th October 2019, 12:11 PM   #668
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An actual pathologist is now working with Epstein's brother and believes it was a homicide. Reason: 3 broken bones in neck makes it unlikely it was a suicide. Paraphrasing him from a radio interview here - "In a prison suicide, hyoid bone breaking is common, 2 bones uncommon, 3 broken bones [like with Epstein] is rare as hell. ... In a New York prison suicide, I've never seen it."

NY Times (paywall for me)

Insider Link

I make no comment on how credible this celebrity pathologist is, but there's the info.
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Old 30th October 2019, 12:12 PM   #669
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How is "New York Prison Suicide" a meaningful distinction from "Prison Suicide?"
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Old 30th October 2019, 12:19 PM   #670
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He was the medical examiner in new york, so he's speaking to his experience, was how I heard it. Mayor Koch fired him and there were allegations that he said somethings about ex-Governor Rockefeller dying during sex or some other tawdry innuendo.
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Old 30th October 2019, 12:20 PM   #671
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
How is "New York Prison Suicide" a meaningful distinction from "Prison Suicide?"
How lucky! You've never met anyone from New York.
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Old 30th October 2019, 12:20 PM   #672
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
How is "New York Prison Suicide" a meaningful distinction from "Prison Suicide?"
Slightly more angry and it happens much more quickly.
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Old 30th October 2019, 12:22 PM   #673
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Regional punk band name vs. internationally-known punk band name.
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Old 30th October 2019, 12:24 PM   #674
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
How is "New York Prison Suicide" a meaningful distinction from "Prison Suicide?"
It's a figure of speech. Probably an allusion to New York's place in pop culture as a mob-run town where things happen because the secret powers want them happen.

Thus, when an apparent prison suicide is (suspected to be) actually a murder, it's called a "New York" prison suicide - i.e., a murder made to look like a suicide. Which is a pretty meaningful distinction, in my mind. Not sure it's fair to the Big Apple, but that's a different question.

Last edited by theprestige; 30th October 2019 at 12:25 PM.
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Old 30th October 2019, 12:46 PM   #675
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Why don't they say which bones besides the hyoid? The only other bones in the neck are cervical vertebrae. In a standard hanging where the victim falls, stopped by the rope, a broken neck (vertebrae) is more common than not.

I'm going to guess in a prison suicide rather than falling very far, victims hang from the rope or device but don't fall far to get there thus cutting off air and brain blood supply.

If he tied the noose high and jumped off something like the bed, I don't think breaking three bones is all that mysterious.

Some other things might be suspicious like not having been checked on, taken off suicide precautions prematurely, camera not working? (I can't recall camera details if there was one.)

Obviously Epstein could probably implicate a lot of high profile and very rich persons so motive and capability are easy to imagine.

So, motive, yes.
Three broken bones, meh.
Some administrative decisions, maybe.
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Old 30th October 2019, 02:12 PM   #676
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
An actual pathologist is now working with Epstein's brother and believes it was a homicide. Reason: 3 broken bones in neck makes it unlikely it was a suicide. Paraphrasing him from a radio interview here - "In a prison suicide, hyoid bone breaking is common, 2 bones uncommon, 3 broken bones [like with Epstein] is rare as hell. ... In a New York prison suicide, I've never seen it."

NY Times (paywall for me)

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I make no comment on how credible this celebrity pathologist is, but there's the info.
He is 85

He worked both defenses for OJ and Phil Spector

He is a regular on Fox news

He made his announcement on Fox and Friends.

He isn't exactly doing the things that builds a reputation for honesty.
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Old 30th October 2019, 02:45 PM   #677
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
I make no comment on how credible this celebrity pathologist is, but there's the info.
He was hired by Epstein's brother specifically to make this determination, so I'm not that impressed.
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Old 30th October 2019, 02:54 PM   #678
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Some other things might be suspicious like not having been checked on, taken off suicide precautions prematurely, camera not working? (I can't recall camera details if there was one.)
I don't know anything about the camera; but Epstein was taken off suicide watch at the demands of his own attorneys who argued that it was unnecessary.

As for not being checked on, that might be suspicious-sounding, but I believe it was later determined to be a habit on the part of the guard involved, and I believe they were fired for it. Considering the punishment, I don't think it's likely the guard would have been part of a deliberate scheme by prison management to intentionally not check on Epstein, else he would've said something to that effect by now.
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Old 30th October 2019, 03:04 PM   #679
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Oh, Michael Baden. He also testified that OJ was innocent, and that Phil Spector's victim was a suicide.
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Old 31st October 2019, 06:47 AM   #680
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In a weird coincidence for me, Michael Baden was referred to by name as a celebrity pathologist in a work of fiction I'm reading right now - Cemetery Road, by Greg Iles. The protagonist refers to him like "I bet the coroner would think twice if he knew that Michael Baden was coming in behind him to do an independent autopsy."
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