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Tags celebrity opinions , Terry Gilliam

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Old 4th January 2020, 05:15 PM   #1
Skeptical Greg
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Terry Gilliam 'tired’ of white men being 'blamed for everything'

Terry Gilliam 'tired’ of white men being 'blamed for everything'

Quote:
The director went on to suggest that Harvey Weinstein’s 80 accusers were to blame for the “choices” they made.

“There are many victims in Harvey’s life,” Gilliam said, “and I feel sympathy for them, but then, Hollywood is full of very ambitious people who are adults and they make choices. We all make choices, and I could tell you who did make the choice and who didn’t. I hate Harvey. I had to work with him and I know the abuse.”
A lot more things he said may be worthy of discussion. Certainly a lot of ideas for some Monty Python's Circus skits.
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Old 4th January 2020, 05:49 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
Terry Gilliam 'tired’ of white men being 'blamed for everything'







A lot more things he said may be worthy of discussion. Certainly a lot of ideas for some Monty Python's Circus skits.
Gave up after seeing

"The director went on to suggest that Harvey Weinstein’s 80 accusers were to blame for the “choices” they made."

Wasn't what he said in his quote
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Old 4th January 2020, 06:09 PM   #3
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I know it doesn't ring well, but we are all, as adults, ultimately to blame for the choices we make.

It says nothing about the justification of abuse by someone who might take advantage of a bad choice.
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Old 4th January 2020, 06:13 PM   #4
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Dead link there, OP
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Old 4th January 2020, 06:14 PM   #5
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Yeah, the editorializing in the quote seems to be different from his actual words.
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Old 4th January 2020, 06:15 PM   #6
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Not quite sure why it has caused news tbf

History is full of women and dudes willing to shag fat old rich men and women for personal gain.

As Gilliam says. Many of the accusers were actually just victims, with presumably no personal agenda, so hopefully the fat **** gets what he deserves.
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 4th January 2020, 06:34 PM   #7
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Old 4th January 2020, 06:42 PM   #8
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Pleased that wasn't a RickRoll. And thanks, I like to read article before commenting.
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Old 4th January 2020, 06:42 PM   #9
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Crap happens to the brain when you get old.
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Old 4th January 2020, 06:49 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Crap happens to the brain when you get old.
True, but you can still give us your opinion anyway.
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Old 4th January 2020, 07:38 PM   #11
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OK, so Gilliam is rocking the 'sick of the endless finger pointing' look. Goes well with his shirt.

If we drop our PC facades for a bit, can we sympathize? Might he speak a bit of truth?
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Old 4th January 2020, 07:43 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
OK, so Gilliam is rocking the 'sick of the endless finger pointing' look. Goes well with his shirt.

If we drop our PC facades for a bit, can we sympathize? Might he speak a bit of truth?
Two different issues he has stupidly mixed together.

Can rich men and women manipulate men and women. Yes

Are all the world's problems caused by old white blokes. A lot, but less than portrayed by certain groups
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 4th January 2020, 07:52 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Two different issues he has stupidly mixed together.

Can rich men and women manipulate men and women. Yes

Are all the world's problems caused by old white blokes. A lot, but less than portrayed by certain groups
Another he tosses in with presumably insider knowledge: some women are playing in trade, and he alludes they may be misrepresenting their relationship with HW now.

but yeah, agreed that the two you mention should not get intertwined right out of the gate. Each has merits and times of intersection, but he loses a lot of audience in linking them so tight
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Old 4th January 2020, 07:56 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Another he tosses in with presumably insider knowledge: some women are playing in trade, and he alludes they may be misrepresenting their relationship with HW now.



but yeah, agreed that the two you mention should not get intertwined right out of the gate. Each has merits and times of intersection, but he loses a lot of audience in linking them so tight
Just dumb interview really.

Think he needs to think random things and thoughts out more before opening his gob.

The I can name actresses claim is up there in particularly dim.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 4th January 2020, 07:59 PM   #15
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 5th January 2020, 08:31 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
I know it doesn't ring well, but we are all, as adults, ultimately to blame for the choices we make.
Ultimately???
Sometimes the choice is between starving or having sex with a disgusting person for a burger ...
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Old 5th January 2020, 08:51 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Ultimately???
Sometimes the choice is between starving or having sex with a disgusting person for a burger ...
Got a phone number? Asking for a friend.

Often the choice is taking the easy, fast money rather than bust your butt more metaphorically.
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Old 5th January 2020, 09:35 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
but yeah, agreed that the two you mention should not get intertwined right out of the gate. Each has merits and times of intersection, but he loses a lot of audience in linking them so tight
He loses a lot more than part of his audience when he equates voluntary sex in return for favours or money with outright rape (which is what Weinstein is charged with).

Yes, it's very unprofessional for people to offer sex in return for a chance to get ahead in entertainment industry. It's even worse to ask that someone have sex with them in order to to get a job.

Even when it doesn't amount to abuse tolerating this kind of conduct helps to perpetuate an environment where sexual relationships between people who are in an unequal position of dependence towards each other are okay. That's a recipe for widespread sexual abuse and exploitation, simply because there's often no simple way to distinguish between non-abusive and abusive relationships without the victim making it known or invading the privacy of the people involved.

Hence why any such relationships should be treated as unprofessional and not allowed. Even when it's a private relationship with no direct impact on their professional relationship, they should be treated similar to conflicts of interest and require that they disclose it and give the responsibility of managing the subordinate to someone else.

Yet here we are still dealing with consensual, if exploitative, relationships and not cases of outright sexual coercion and force. Telling someone to come to for a interview and then threatening someone that their professional reputation will be destroyed, that they will make sure they never get a job again, unless they have sex is not giving someone an acceptable choice. At this point we have gone from unprofessional and just exploitative to coercive sexual abuse akin to rape.
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Old 5th January 2020, 11:52 AM   #19
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White men have dominant positions in politics, business and entertainment in most Western countries. It's not exactly unexpected, nor a sign of unjust discrimination, when the people who are condemned for abusing their positions of authority in Western countries happen to be white men.

That is not to say that white men are the only people who abuse their positions of authority in order to make others have sex with them (or for any other reason). In fact one can suspect that this kind of behavior less likely in many western countries than in more conservative countries (which would include many countries with little to no "white people"), even when there is little to no public condemnation against it.

The lack of public condemnation does not imply that these practices, which are usually either illegal or at the very publicly disapproved of, do not exist there. It's quite often because the victims don't dare to speak out simply because society de facto tolerates it. Japan, China, Afghanistan, India... these are examples of countries that are notionally less "permissive" or tolerant and yet in practice men of power (and it's almost always men) can often exploit people with impunity.

A recent article in a Swedish newspaper, about a Japanese woman who publicly criticized that women in occupations were expected to wear high-heeled shoes during work (even when it was not even remotely related to their actual duties, like office work), mentioned that she also had a history as a bikini model and actress and that she actually signed a contract that explicitly stated she was sometimes required to have sex with "customers" and that they could take photos or film the sex and upload it online.

It's not surprising that a lot of Japanese pornography depicts exploitative or outright non-consensual sexual relationships. The prude moralist might find such pornography offensive and wish to ban it, because it supposedly might lead men to think that kind of conduct is okay, but they end up mistaking cause for effect. In fact more often than not it's implicitly quite clear that the conduct depicted is not okay, but that is one of the appeals of such pornography: that it's gratifying simply because it's transgressive and against good morals.

The reason why men sexually abuse or exploit women and girls, or men and boys for that matter, isn't because porn depicting such sexual abuse made them do it. Porn was made depicting that kind of sexual abuse because it occurs. Like what do you expect to happen? You have young very pretty people looking to make it in the entertainment industry, and men that can arbitrarily crush their dreams on a moments notice with little to no safeguards to prevent abuse.
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Old 6th January 2020, 11:32 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Skeptical Greg View Post
I know it doesn't ring well, but we are all, as adults, ultimately to blame for the choices we make.

It says nothing about the justification of abuse by someone who might take advantage of a bad choice.
Yep like my coworker who suggested that the women who went to see Bill Cosby knew what they were in for. I mean what comedian doesn't drug women? Surely Gilliam knows a thing or two about that.
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Old 6th January 2020, 11:44 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
That one wants me to log into aol. How about this?

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-a9269136.html

Actual quote:

Quote:
I understand that men have had more power longer, but I’m tired, as a white male, of being blamed for everything that is wrong with the world.” He holds up his hands. “I didn’t do it!”

Last edited by carlitos; 6th January 2020 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 6th January 2020, 12:25 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Another he tosses in with presumably insider knowledge: some women are playing in trade, and he alludes they may be misrepresenting their relationship with HW now.
And yet somehow he was forced to work with HW, and didn't find it useful to work with a rapist to further his career.
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Old 6th January 2020, 12:26 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by carlitos View Post
That one wants me to log into aol. How about this?

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-a9269136.html

Actual quote:
And yet he laments being forced to work with Weinstein. Who was holding the gun to his head?
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Old 6th January 2020, 03:05 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
OK, so Gilliam is rocking the 'sick of the endless finger pointing' look. Goes well with his shirt.

If we drop our PC facades for a bit, can we sympathize? Might he speak a bit of truth?
Where I'm from (ie. the US), people love nothing more than to blame black people and Latino immigrants for "everything", far more than the wealthy white guys in charge of things. That's kinda one of the major uses of racism.
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Old 6th January 2020, 03:08 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And yet he laments being forced to work with Weinstein. Who was holding the gun to his head?
I'm not sure why you're asking me; I just posted a working link and the accurate quote since neither were to be found in the thread.
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Old 6th January 2020, 03:26 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Where I'm from (ie. the US), people love nothing more than to blame black people and Latino immigrants for "everything", far more than the wealthy white guys in charge of things. That's kinda one of the major uses of racism.
Correction: some people love nothing more than to blame PoC. Most, I would think, know that our problems have to do with poverty, education, and opportunity.
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Old 6th January 2020, 04:31 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Yep like my coworker who suggested that the women who went to see Bill Cosby knew what they were in for. I mean what comedian doesn't drug women? Surely Gilliam knows a thing or two about that.
Not like that at all..

The individuals choices ended when they were given drugs without their knowledge..
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Old 6th January 2020, 07:13 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And yet somehow he was forced to work with HW, and didn't find it useful to work with a rapist to further his career.
Think he only made one movie with where he worked out he was a prick.

And by forced contracts were already signed.
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Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 7th January 2020, 04:11 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Think he only made one movie with where he worked out he was a prick.

And by forced contracts were already signed.
And he could still have walked, but he whored himself out to Weinstein for the sake of his career.
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Old 7th January 2020, 04:51 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And he could still have walked, but he whored himself out to Weinstein for the sake of his career.
Yeah, he should totally have known all the crap that would come out about Weinstein about a decade later

Meanwhile...
Originally Posted by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brothers_Grimm_(film)
"I'm used to riding roughshod over studio executives," Gilliam explained, "but the Weinsteins rode roughshod over me."[12] Gilliam got so upset, filming was shut down for nearly two weeks. Matt Damon reflected on the situation: "I've never been in a situation like that. Terry was spitting rage at the system, at the Weinsteins. You can't try and impose big compromises on a visionary director like him. If you try to force him to do what you want creatively, he'll go nuclear."[12] The feud between Gilliam and the Weinsteins was eventually settled, although Bob Weinstein blamed the entire situation on yellow journalism.[20] Filming was scheduled to end in October, but due to various problems during filming, principal photography did not end until the following 27 November.[21]

Due to the tensions between the filmmaker and the producers during production, Gilliam said in retrospect about the film, "[i]t's not the film they wanted and it's not quite the film I wanted. It's the film that is a result of [...] two groups of people, who aren’t working well together."[22] With regards to the Weinsteins also producing Martin Scorsese's film Gangs of New York (2002), Gilliam stated: "Marty [Scorsese] said almost the exact same quote I said, without us knowing it: 'They took the joy out of filmmaking.'"[22]
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Old 7th January 2020, 07:12 AM   #31
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Quote:
I understand that men have had more power longer, but I’m tired, as a white male, of being blamed for everything that is wrong with the world.” He holds up his hands. “I didn’t do it!”
Ironically, he is doing it with this statement, by personalizing an issue that isn't personal to assert that his being made to hear about injustice is more important than injustice itself, then using his privilege as a "tired, white male" to use this discomfort as basis to support the status quo.
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Old 7th January 2020, 08:36 AM   #32
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I'm tired of mostly middle-aged or older white men engaging in defensive whining and denying problems...
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Old 7th January 2020, 09:38 AM   #33
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Isn’t it a bigger problem that men are refusing to take responsibility for abusing women, and abusing their power? “No. When you have power, you don’t take responsibility for abusing others. You enjoy the power. That’s the way it works in reality.”
That's just...dumb. Denying the possibility of justice or reform as justice and reform are being done. Then posing as the realist.

I hope I die before I'm an old white man. I mean, I'm already old, but there's still hope I won't get that white or male.

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Old 7th January 2020, 09:51 AM   #34
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Old-man-yells-at-cloud.jpeg

Such is the cost of living a long life. People you admired in your youth often disappoint you in their old age.

It's a bit stranger when comedians go this way. They often make their career on poking fun at the crusty fuddy-duddy establishment types, but become more entrenched traditionalists as they age. Oh well. Maybe him and Chappelle can get together and talk about how kids these days just don't get it.
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Old 7th January 2020, 09:58 AM   #35
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Old-man-yells-at-cloud.jpeg

Such is the cost of living a long life. People you admired in your youth often disappoint you in their old age.

It's a bit stranger when comedians go this way. They often make their career on poking fun at the crusty fuddy-duddy establishment types, but become more entrenched traditionalists as they age. Oh well. Maybe him and Chappelle can get together and talk about how kids these days just don't get it.
Also the find that the marginalized groups they made fun of are no longer OK to make fun of. Then they either apologize for their old act like eddie murphy has or double down like most do.
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Old 7th January 2020, 11:26 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by mumblethrax View Post
That's just...dumb. Denying the possibility of justice or reform as justice and reform are being done. Then posing as the realist.

I hope I die before I'm an old white man. I mean, I'm already old, but there's still hope I won't get that white or male.
He's also denying the obvious fact that not all people abuse the power and authority they have, even when they can do so with complete impunity. He comes off as not being indifferent towards abuse of power and corruption, but rather as justifying it as normal and expected.
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Old 7th January 2020, 11:48 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And he could still have walked, but he whored himself out to Weinstein for the sake of his career.
Lol

Yeah ok

He isn't Steven Spielberg or George Lucas, worth billions of dollars each
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Old 7th January 2020, 01:27 PM   #38
ponderingturtle
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Lol

Yeah ok

He isn't Steven Spielberg or George Lucas, worth billions of dollars each
He had plenty of millions from his past work to live fine.
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Old 7th January 2020, 02:07 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
He had plenty of millions from his past work to live fine.
Yes. Unlike most of Weinstein's sexual abuse victims, Terry Gilliam had the resources to tell Weinstein to **** off. Not just in terms of money, either. Gilliam has long had enough of a reputation that it would take more than Weinstein to end his career.
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Old 7th January 2020, 02:18 PM   #40
cullennz
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
He had plenty of millions from his past work to live fine.
Not after the Weinstein's sued him into bankruptcy he wouldn't.

Do you actually know how contracts work?
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