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Old 12th April 2017, 09:43 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Which publication?

Copernicus's work was in fact published with the patronage of the Lutheran Church and Galileo's Dialogue was expressly permitted by the Pope (until Galileo's hubris caused him to mock the Pope and other supporters in the work)
When did you switch from RCC to Lutherism?
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:48 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
When did you switch from RCC to Lutherism?
When? Just a couple of minutes ago, I thought the Bishop was lutheran but on further investigation, it turns out he was Catholic. Fixed my earlier post.
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Old 12th April 2017, 10:37 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
When? Just a couple of minutes ago, I thought the Bishop was lutheran but on further investigation, it turns out he was Catholic. Fixed my earlier post.
Really? You are unsure which flavour to which you adhere? What does that tell you?
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Old 12th April 2017, 10:44 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
Really? You are unsure which flavour to which you adhere? What does that tell you?
What relevance does TBD's beliefs have on this topic?
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Old 12th April 2017, 10:49 AM   #85
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Did people in the Middle Ages take baths?

answer, yes!
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Old 12th April 2017, 11:06 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Further investigation into the the first subject suggests that prohibition of dissection of human predated the birth of Christ and actually revived during the late Middle Ages.

See e.g. https://www.deepdyve.com/lp/elsevier...the-YM03BUSes0
Yes, but until then it was banned by the Church, as I said. Thank you for confirming.

Hans
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Old 12th April 2017, 11:13 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
That is of course not true. Copernicus's De revolutionibus orbium coelestium was published in 1543, well into the Renaissance and long after the Medieval period was ended.

Hell even Galileo was permitted to publish his work, and ended up mucking it up by mocking his patrons as Simplicio in the work.
And Giordano Bruno?

Gallileo:

Quote:
Galileo's championing of heliocentrism and Copernicanism was controversial during his lifetime, when most subscribed to either geocentrism or the Tychonic system.[4] He met with opposition from astronomers, who doubted heliocentrism because of the absence of an observed stellar parallax.[4] The matter was investigated by the Roman Inquisition in 1615, which concluded that heliocentrism was "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture."[4][5][6] Galileo later defended his views in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, which appeared to attack Pope Urban VIII and thus alienated him and the Jesuits, who had both supported Galileo up until this point.[4] He was tried by the Inquisition, found "vehemently suspect of heresy", and forced to recant. He spent the rest of his life under house arrest.[7][8] While under house arrest, he wrote one of his best-known works, Two New Sciences, in which he summarized work he had done some forty years earlier on the two sciences now called kinematics and strength of materials.[9][10]
From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

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Old 12th April 2017, 11:14 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Yes, but until then it was banned by the Church, as I said. Thank you for confirming.

Hans
I believe you have misinterpreted my post and link. I said that the prohibition on human dissection PREDATED Christ, and in fact was revived only in the Medieval period, beginning in the 12th century.
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Old 12th April 2017, 11:21 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
And Giordano Bruno?

Gallileo:



From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

Hans
First of all, you know we are discussing the Medieval period, correct?

Second, you do not explain the significance of your wiki quote, but I refer you to

Quote:
Galileo later defended his views in Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, which appeared to attack Pope Urban VIII and thus alienated him and the Jesuits, who had both supported Galileo up until this point.
Third, have you had a chance to read this whole thread? i posted a link to an excellent piece earlier that you might enjoy:

Quote:
The hoary standards are brought out on cue. Giordiano Bruno is presented as a wise and noble martyr for science instead of the irritating mystical New Age kook he actually was. Hypatia is presented as another such martyr and the mythical Christian destruction of the Great Library of Alexandria is spoken of in hushed tones, despite both these ideas being totally untrue. The Galileo Affair is ushered in as evidence of a brave scientist standing up to the unscientific obscurantism of the Church, despite that case being as much about science as it was about Scripture.
http://strangenotions.com/gods-philosophers/
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Old 12th April 2017, 11:26 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
I believe you have misinterpreted my post and link. I said that the prohibition on human dissection PREDATED Christ, and in fact was revived only in the Medieval period, beginning in the 12th century.
I can't see the relevance of when it started, but I will concede that it is a blurred picture; some places allowing it as early as 12th century, others keeping the ban into the sixteenth.

The point remains that it was all based on religion. Thus, religion delayed anatomical science, albeit to differing degrees.



Hans
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Old 12th April 2017, 11:27 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
First of all, you know we are discussing the Medieval period, correct?

Second, you do not explain the significance of your wiki quote, but I refer you to



Third, have you had a chance to read this whole thread? i posted a link to an excellent piece earlier that you might enjoy:



http://strangenotions.com/gods-philosophers/
OK, so according to ... you? religion? ... it is OK to burn irritating persons on a stake?

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Old 12th April 2017, 11:31 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
I can't see the relevance of when it started, but I will concede that it is a blurred picture; some places allowing it as early as 12th century, others keeping the ban into the sixteenth.

The point remains that it was all based on religion. Thus, religion delayed anatomical science, albeit to differing degrees.

Hans
That is quite debatable, in fact that Greeks abandoned it due to non-religious reasons in the 3rd century BC.

In any event, well and truly off topic.
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Old 12th April 2017, 11:39 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
OK, so according to ... you? religion? ... it is OK to burn irritating persons on a stake?

Hans
Ah, have we then reached agreement that your claim "Cosmology was held back due to forbidding the publication of new models, such as the heliocentric model," was erroneous?

If so, no to me burning irritating people at the stake is not OK, although I certainly understand that was done to Bruno during the Counter-reformation at least 200 years after the end of the Medieval period for heresy (and certainly not his mystical version of Copernicus)
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Old 12th April 2017, 11:45 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Ah, have we then reached agreement that your claim "Cosmology was held back due to forbidding the publication of new models, such as the heliocentric model," was erroneous?
No. As I documented, Gallileo certainly met resistance.

Quote:
If so, no to me burning irritating people at the stake is not OK, although I certainly understand that was done to Bruno during the Counter-reformation at least 200 years after the end of the Medieval period for heresy (and certainly not his mystical version of Copernicus)
I have two questions:

1) Was he burned on the stake?

2) Was it due to religious reasons?

Hans
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Old 12th April 2017, 11:56 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
No. As I documented, Gallileo certainly met resistance.



I have two questions:

1) Was he burned on the stake?

2) Was it due to religious reasons?

Hans
Galileo's resistance was primarily scientific, and his own ego.

1. yes bruno was burned at the stake (in 1600 AD, aka late Renaissance); 2. Yes.
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Old 12th April 2017, 12:38 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Galileo's resistance was primarily scientific, and his own ego.

From the link I presented earlier:
Quote:
The matter was investigated by the Roman Inquisition in 1615, which concluded that heliocentrism was "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture."
However, you might have noticed that my basic point has been that it doesn't make a lot of difference; resistance to change, conservatism, will exist, and will be rationalized in many ways. One way is religion. There has not been any significant difference between a theistic and a non-theistic culture as exemplified in Europe and China, respectively. Which is, of course, because it is all in the human mind.

Hans
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Old 12th April 2017, 01:11 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
From the link I presented earlier:


However, you might have noticed that my basic point has been that it doesn't make a lot of difference; resistance to change, conservatism, will exist, and will be rationalized in many ways. One way is religion. There has not been any significant difference between a theistic and a non-theistic culture as exemplified in Europe and China, respectively. Which is, of course, because it is all in the human mind.

Hans
and in 1615 Galileo was therefore told that while he could present his analysis as a theory, he should not present it as a fact (because indeed at the time that was all it was, as he could not resolve two huge scientific issues, the Coriolis effect and Stellar Parallax.

he did so anyway, had several nice chats with the new Pope, who gave his permission to write the book, which Galileo pissed away by pulling the Simplicius stunt.
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Old 12th April 2017, 01:22 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
What relevance does TBD's beliefs have on this topic?
TBD is claiming that his beliefs contributed to the advancement of science. What beliefs are those? I have no idea, so perhaps it might be fair to ask, rather than assume.
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Old 12th April 2017, 01:45 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
and in 1615 Galileo was therefore told that while he could present his analysis as a theory, he should not present it as a fact (because indeed at the time that was all it was, as he could not resolve two huge scientific issues, the Coriolis effect and Stellar Parallax.

he did so anyway, had several nice chats with the new Pope, who gave his permission to write the book, which Galileo pissed away by pulling the Simplicius stunt.
Then he should have been reprimanded for such discourtesy. But in no way should the scientific doctrine enunciated in his work have been suppressed. Anyway here is his sentence
Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy," namely of having held the opinions that the Sun lies motionless at the center of the universe, that the Earth is not at its centre and moves, and that one may hold and defend an opinion as probable after it has been declared contrary to Holy Scripture. He was required to "abjure, curse, and detest" those opinions.
"Opinions" were to be abandoned. He wasn't merely told to stop being cheeky to the Pope.
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Old 12th April 2017, 02:00 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Then he should have been reprimanded for such discourtesy. But in no way should the scientific doctrine enunciated in his work have been suppressed. Anyway here is his sentence
Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy," namely of having held the opinions that the Sun lies motionless at the center of the universe, that the Earth is not at its centre and moves, and that one may hold and defend an opinion as probable after it has been declared contrary to Holy Scripture. He was required to "abjure, curse, and detest" those opinions.
"Opinions" were to be abandoned. He wasn't merely told to stop being cheeky to the Pope.
Oh well, such is what happens when one betrays ones political friends and patrons.

But for hubris, huh?
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Old 12th April 2017, 02:01 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by abaddon View Post
TBD is claiming that his beliefs contributed to the advancement of science. What beliefs are those? I have no idea, so perhaps it might be fair to ask, rather than assume.
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Old 12th April 2017, 02:13 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
What's the problem? You have variously claimed RCC beliefs, Anglican beliefs, Presbyterian beliefs, calvinist beliefs, jewish beliefs, Who the hell knows what you really believe. I take two seconds to defend you and you chuck a smiley.

Go figure. Not a venture I will attempt again.
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Old 12th April 2017, 02:19 PM   #103
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Well, I am hopeful that we have put that Dark Ages nonsense to rest.
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Old 12th April 2017, 02:51 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Well, I am hopeful that we have put that Dark Ages nonsense to rest.
You haven't even managed to put the Galileo controversy to rest, and I don't know what bit of "Dark Ages" is nonsense, in your view.

We can't merely say that nothing happened in the Early Middle AgesWP
Around AD 100, (Rome) had a population of about 450,000. Its population declined to a mere 20,000 during the Early Middle Ages, reducing the sprawling city to groups of inhabited buildings interspersed among large areas of ruins and vegetation.
And it remained for centuries in a degraded state. Something exceedingly untoward had evidently befallen W European civilisation. More generally in the West
Administrative, educational and military infrastructure quickly vanished, and the loss of the established cursus honorum led to the collapse of the schools and to a rise of illiteracy even among the leadership. ... For the formerly Roman area, there was another 20 percent decline in population between 400 and 600, or a one-third decline for 150-600. In the 8th century, the volume of trade reached its lowest level. The very small number of shipwrecks found that dated from the 8th century supports this (which represents less than 2 percent of the number of shipwrecks dated from the 1st century). There were also reforestation and a retreat of agriculture that centered around 500.
To state, if such data are at all authentic, that you have "put Dark Ages nonsense to rest", is excessively dismissive, and I think ideologically tendentious.
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Old 12th April 2017, 03:03 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
You haven't even managed to put the Galileo controversy to rest, and I don't know what bit of "Dark Ages" is nonsense, in your view.
...
is excessively dismissive, and I think ideologically tendentious.
Well the Gallileo controversy took place in the very late Renaissance, not the medieval period, and while I don't mind a cut and paste from Wikipedia now and again, it isn't really an argument is it?

Have you had a chance to read the thread in its entirety?

here is another modern source that again rejects the grossly inaccurate misnomer of "dark Ages."

https://prezi.com/fepswnjg10ic/corre...es-lighten-up/
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Old 12th April 2017, 03:37 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Well the Gallileo controversy took place in the very late Renaissance, not the medieval period, and while I don't mind a cut and paste from Wikipedia now and again, it isn't really an argument is it?

Have you had a chance to read the thread in its entirety?

here is another modern source that again rejects the grossly inaccurate misnomer of "dark Ages."

https://prezi.com/fepswnjg10ic/corre...es-lighten-up/
Thank you for that link. Its originator appears to be a D'Etta Brown of Texas Tech university. I looked for her on Internet, and I wonder if this is the right person. https://msn.intelius.com/people/D&#3...TX/0C06C186PHE

If not, please tell me. I find myself unable to comment on her academic credentials, if this is indeed the person who wrote your linked presentation.

Here is another of her works. https://prezi.com/m/usiccawwmp0d/the...thodox-church/
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Old 12th April 2017, 03:44 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Thank you for that link. Its originator appears to be a D'Etta Brown of Texas Tech university. I looked for her on Internet, and I wonder if this is the right person. https://msn.intelius.com/people/D&#3...TX/0C06C186PHE

If not, please tell me. I find myself unable to comment on her academic credentials, if this is indeed the person who wrote your linked presentation.

Here is another of her works. https://prezi.com/m/usiccawwmp0d/the...thodox-church/
No problem, did you read this one yet?

He's an atheist, so probably right up your alley?

http://strangenotions.com/gods-philosophers/
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Old 12th April 2017, 04:13 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
No problem, did you read this one yet?

He's an atheist, so probably right up your alley?

http://strangenotions.com/gods-philosophers/
I can see we're not going to get anywhere. I know O'Neill through his "Armarium Magnum" site, but if I try to analyse any of this you'll merely ignore what I say, and send yet another link.

My regards to Ms Brown of Texas tech. By the way, you didn't tell me if I had found the right person in my Internet search. I take it that she is not an atheist. But of course being a theist needn't prevent her from making sensible comments.
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Old 12th April 2017, 04:18 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
I can see we're not going to get anywhere. I know O'Neill through his "Armarium Magnum" site, but if I try to analyse any of this you'll merely ignore what I say, and send yet another link.

My regards to Ms Brown of Texas tech. By the way, you didn't tell me if I had found the right person in my Internet search. I take it that she is not an atheist. But of course being a theist needn't prevent her from making sensible comments.
Yeah, there are lots and lots of links. All very critical of the phrase dark ages, for good reason.
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Old 12th April 2017, 04:22 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
<snip>

But of course being a theist needn't prevent her from making sensible comments.

It can be a pretty shaky foundation to build on, though.
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Old 12th April 2017, 04:42 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Yeah, there are lots and lots of links. All very critical of the phrase dark ages, for good reason.
Then call the period something that strikes you as more appropriate. My point is that whatever we call it, something extremely grave affected W European society at the time. I have given some data. I have suggested no cause, but it may have a religious cause. You have said that in the absence of religion we would be in a "Neandertal", or "Neolithic" condition. I don't know if that's so. I'm not sure even what you mean.

But I have pointed out that Christianity can't be the only or uniform cause of this regression, because some Eastern Christian societies were less severely affected by it. In case you think I am blaming that religion exclusively for this phenomenon. The alternatives may not be "Science or Christianity" but Free Thought on one hand and intellectual stagnation on the other.

The Dark Age condition is not unique to the W European Early Mediaeval period anyway. The Late Bronze Age civilisation in Greece collapsed so completely that even the art of writing was temporarily lost, and had to be reacquired from the Phoenicians.

But in neither of these cultures did science rule. That is a post-Enlightenment phenomenon; and its achievements and results would not be believed were they not in place before our eyes.
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Old 12th April 2017, 05:56 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Then call the period something that strikes you as more appropriate. My point is that whatever we call it, something extremely grave affected W European society at the time. I have given some data. I have suggested no cause, but it may have a religious cause. You have said that in the absence of religion we would be in a "Neandertal", or "Neolithic" condition. I don't know if that's so. I'm not sure even what you mean.

But I have pointed out that Christianity can't be the only or uniform cause of this regression, because some Eastern Christian societies were less severely affected by it. In case you think I am blaming that religion exclusively for this phenomenon. The alternatives may not be "Science or Christianity" but Free Thought on one hand and intellectual stagnation on the other.

The Dark Age condition is not unique to the W European Early Mediaeval period anyway. The Late Bronze Age civilisation in Greece collapsed so completely that even the art of writing was temporarily lost, and had to be reacquired from the Phoenicians.

But in neither of these cultures did science rule. That is a post-Enlightenment phenomenon; and its achievements and results would not be believed were they not in place before our eyes.
What we are trying to explain is that the use of the term "dark Ages" is a misnomer, and no serious modern scholar uses that outdated term.

Did you get a chance to read this article?

The Medieval Period was a Dark Age? Don't be Ignorant.
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Old 12th April 2017, 06:27 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Well, I am hopeful that we have put that Dark Ages nonsense to rest.
Which "Dark Ages nonsense", specifically you do you want "put to rest" ?

By "put to rest", do you mean that it shall no longer be discussed?
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Old 12th April 2017, 06:43 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
What we are trying to explain is that the use of the term "dark Ages" is a misnomer, and no serious modern scholar uses that outdated term.

Did you get a chance to read this article?

The Medieval Period was a Dark Age? Don't be Ignorant.
Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
Which "Dark Ages nonsense", specifically you do you want "put to rest" ?

By "put to rest", do you mean that it shall no longer be discussed?
Did you read the subsequent posts?
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Old 12th April 2017, 10:32 PM   #115
Craig B
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
What we are trying to explain is that the use of the term "dark Ages" is a misnomer, and no serious modern scholar uses that outdated term.

Did you get a chance to read this article?

The Medieval Period was a Dark Age? Don't be Ignorant.
I wish is to make it absolutely clear to you that I am seeking from you some argument or data intended to sustain your view, and not continual links. Do you understand that? I thought I had made it as plain as I could.

If you understand the stuff you are linking, tell me why you find it, or its authors, convincing.

Now what are you saying? That there was no regression in the Early Mediaeval Period? Or that there was, but it should not be called the Dark Ages? Please try to answer that in your own words.

In this case your source is an affiliate of the State Policy NetworkWP
The State Policy Network (SPN) has franchised, funded, and fostered a growing number of “mini Heritage Foundations” at the state level since the early 1990s.[1] SPN is a web of right-wing “think tanks” in every state across the country. It is an $83 million right-wing empire as of the 2011 funding documents from SPN itself and each of its state "think tank" members. Although SPN's member organizations claim to be nonpartisan and independent, the Center for Media and Democracy's in-depth investigation, "EXPOSED: The State Policy Network -- The Powerful Right-Wing Network Helping to Hijack State Politics and Government," reveals that SPN and its member think tanks are major drivers of the right-wing, American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC)-backed corporate agenda in state houses nationwide, with deep ties to the Koch brothers and the national right-wing network of funders.
As in previous cases I am unable to evaluate its academic credentials. It is on the extreme edge of the ultra Right politically, however.

Last edited by Craig B; 12th April 2017 at 10:38 PM.
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Old 13th April 2017, 01:21 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
No problem, did you read this one yet?

He's an atheist, so probably right up your alley?

http://strangenotions.com/gods-philosophers/
I have read this material. It comes from an atheist host, but the material is Catholic Christian, strange as that may seem. The following is taken from its statement of principle, which evidently you haven't read.
http://strangenotions.com/about/
Why is the content mostly Catholic?
The Catholics at StrangeNotions.com do not for one moment pretend to be neutral. It is Catholics who have constructed this arena, wrote most of the articles, and who have issued the invitation to dialogue. Thus it is possible for an atheist to regard the whole thing as a cunningly—or not so cunningly—disguised form of propaganda or proselytization. It's certainly no secret that Catholics everywhere, offline and at Strange Notions, want to bring atheists to faith ...
It should be noted that one of the site's primary aims is to accurately explain Catholic teaching on issues like cosmology, morality, faith, and the Bible, and then discuss those positions with atheists. Therefore the articles are primarily from a Catholic perspective.
Yet, this is a fair and open place for seeking Truth. We invite careful criticism and your comments will never be deleted simply for disagreeing ...
Our specific goal here is to put two groups in dialogue: charitable atheists and serious-minded Catholics.
This was the last time I will pay you the unmerited compliment of commenting on your links. You don't examine them yourself.
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Old 13th April 2017, 03:41 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
I have read this material. It comes from an atheist host, but the material is Catholic Christian, strange as that may seem. The following is taken from its statement of principle, which evidently you haven't read.
http://strangenotions.com/about/
Why is the content mostly Catholic?
The Catholics at StrangeNotions.com do not for one moment pretend to be neutral. It is Catholics who have constructed this arena, wrote most of the articles, and who have issued the invitation to dialogue. Thus it is possible for an atheist to regard the whole thing as a cunningly—or not so cunningly—disguised form of propaganda or proselytization. It's certainly no secret that Catholics everywhere, offline and at Strange Notions, want to bring atheists to faith ...
It should be noted that one of the site's primary aims is to accurately explain Catholic teaching on issues like cosmology, morality, faith, and the Bible, and then discuss those positions with atheists. Therefore the articles are primarily from a Catholic perspective.
Yet, this is a fair and open place for seeking Truth. We invite careful criticism and your comments will never be deleted simply for disagreeing ...
Our specific goal here is to put two groups in dialogue: charitable atheists and serious-minded Catholics.
This was the last time I will pay you the unmerited compliment of commenting on your links. You don't examine them yourself.
It's an RCC thing. Do what I say, not what I do. Contraception is verboten, yet pretty much all catholics practice it. Sunday Mass is obligatory. Is it? So how come when I was a kid there were three or four priests in each church, yet today, there is one priest for four churches. The guy is doing a solo relay race.

I have long since moved out of the area where I was born and raised, but a young Nigerian priest was inserted into that parish. I actually felt really sorry for the bloke. It was as if a little piece of apartheid saffers were teleported onto my doorstep. Some of the congregation even refused to accept communion from the guy.
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Old 13th April 2017, 04:36 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
and in 1615 Galileo was therefore told that while he could present his analysis as a theory, he should not present it as a fact (because indeed at the time that was all it was, as he could not resolve two huge scientific issues, the Coriolis effect and Stellar Parallax.

he did so anyway, had several nice chats with the new Pope, who gave his permission to write the book, which Galileo pissed away by pulling the Simplicius stunt.
Do you agree that the opposition to his scientific theory was, in fact, religious? You haven't adressed this.
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Old 13th April 2017, 05:15 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Do you agree that the opposition to his scientific theory was, in fact, religious? You haven't adressed this.
Good luck with that line of argument. Expect copious tap-dancing.
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Old 13th April 2017, 05:23 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Do you agree that the opposition to his scientific theory was, in fact, religious? You haven't adressed this.
As MRC Hans points out in #96
The matter was investigated by the Roman Inquisition in 1615, which concluded that heliocentrism was "foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts in many places the sense of Holy Scripture.
So either the opposition was religious, as no less than the Inquisition clearly stated; or the Inquisition was telling lies. Tertium non datur.
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