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Old 5th August 2018, 03:49 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
It is about Australia.

There have been units in the US military where christianity was forced on members. I think the Air Force Academy had a religion issue. When the Pentagon hears about it (or, at least, when the Pentagon hears that the press hears about it), the religious indoctrination gets shut down.

I had a youth leader when I was a kid who had served in Viet Nam. He asked to speak to a chaplain and was given a great deal of flak about it because they had no Jewish chaplains in the area. But eventually they flew a damn Rabbi to Viet Nam to counsel him.


ETA: Google seems to confirm that Colorado Springs has a decades-long ongoing problem with "encouraging" students to attend christian services.
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Old 5th August 2018, 09:43 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
There have been units in the US military where christianity was forced on members. I think the Air Force Academy had a religion issue. When the Pentagon hears about it (or, at least, when the Pentagon hears that the press hears about it), the religious indoctrination gets shut down.

I had a youth leader when I was a kid who had served in Viet Nam. He asked to speak to a chaplain and was given a great deal of flak about it because they had no Jewish chaplains in the area. But eventually they flew a damn Rabbi to Viet Nam to counsel him.


ETA: Google seems to confirm that Colorado Springs has a decades-long ongoing problem with "encouraging" students to attend christian services.
Okay, so it is both about Australia and the US. I stand corrected.

With regard
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Old 5th August 2018, 10:16 PM   #43
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I mentioned the school chaplaincy program in Australia earlier in this thread. There is ample evidence of chaplains trying to recruit school children. It pretty much goes with the role. If you, as a chaplain, have overwhelming moral certitude, you feel obliged to show others the rightful way.
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Old 6th August 2018, 12:06 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
What has the Stars and Stripes got to do with the Chaplin role in the Australian military?
Comedy performance.
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Old 6th August 2018, 09:44 AM   #45
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Originally Posted by Klimax View Post
Comedy performance.
I was really hoping it would be a quote of this scene:

Psycho: The name's Francis Soyer, but everybody calls me Psycho. Any of you guys call me Francis, and I'll kill you.

Leon: Ooooooh.

Psycho: You just made the list, buddy. And I don't like nobody touching my stuff. So just keep your meat-hooks off. If I catch any of you guys in my stuff, I'll kill you. Also, I don't like nobody touching me. Now, any of you homos touch me, and I'll kill you.

Sergeant Hulka: Lighten up, Francis.
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Old 6th August 2018, 03:01 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I mentioned the school chaplaincy program in Australia earlier in this thread. There is ample evidence of chaplains trying to recruit school children. It pretty much goes with the role. If you, as a chaplain, have overwhelming moral certitude, you feel obliged to show others the rightful way.

The school chaplaincy program is a black mark in modern Australian history.

Religiously inclined politicians have overcome court rulings to keep this illegal program running.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/cont...09-p4z3nl.html

Quote:
But it makes no practical sense to require a chaplain to have a particular religion. Chaplains are strictly prohibited from religious proselytising, although there are sometimes reports of chaplains breaking the rules. The High Court even commented that despite the religious sounding job title, the actual work chaplains do has nothing much to do with religion. Justice Dyson Heydon wrote that the work of chaplains "could have been done by persons who met a religious test. It could equally have been done by persons who did not".

In other words, there is no genuine occupational requirement for a chaplain to be a member of any particular religion or to be religious at all. The federal government has simply decided that it wants all chaplains to be religious.
There you have it. Chaplains must be religious to get the job but are prohibited from talking about this qualification needed to get the job......... yep that makes sense.
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Old 6th August 2018, 09:46 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
Religiously inclined politicians have overcome court rulings to keep this illegal program running.
Obviously not "illegal" since the High Court has signed off on it, but definitely immoral and a misuse of taxpayer money.
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Old 7th August 2018, 12:46 AM   #48
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You know, at this point I have to wonder why even call it a chaplain in this day and age? I mean, even if someone is religious, as was pointed out, there's a high chance that the chaplain won't be their denomination or even religion entirely. Why not just get a trained psychiatrist and call it a counselor?

If nothing else, they'll be more qualified to recognize stuff like PTSD or clinical depression. Where, frankly, talking to the guy about what would Jesus do or expect from them, isn't going to do any good. I mean, if someone is already at a point where their self-worth is in question, thinking about how it's measuring up or not to the standards of an imaginary friend, or whether it's some cruel test of faith that they may or may not pass, isn't exactly helping, is it?
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Old 7th August 2018, 01:26 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
You know, at this point I have to wonder why even call it a chaplain in this day and age? I mean, even if someone is religious, as was pointed out, there's a high chance that the chaplain won't be their denomination or even religion entirely. Why not just get a trained psychiatrist and call it a counselor?

If nothing else, they'll be more qualified to recognize stuff like PTSD or clinical depression. Where, frankly, talking to the guy about what would Jesus do or expect from them, isn't going to do any good. I mean, if someone is already at a point where their self-worth is in question, thinking about how it's measuring up or not to the standards of an imaginary friend, or whether it's some cruel test of faith that they may or may not pass, isn't exactly helping, is it?
No, a psychiatrist alone won't cut it. You need a combination of a psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker and life experience as a soldier or something similar or a personality, which can handle the absurdity of war.
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Old 7th August 2018, 02:36 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
No, a psychiatrist alone won't cut it. You need a combination of a psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker and life experience as a soldier or something similar or a personality, which can handle the absurdity of war.
Maybe we need a new type of worker? Someone who can give almost any type of advice. Then recognise if they need specialised attention. Almost like a GP expect they would not give out drugs or perform surgery.
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Old 7th August 2018, 02:52 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Maybe we need a new type of worker? Someone who can give almost any type of advice. Then recognise if they need specialised attention. Almost like a GP expect they would not give out drugs or perform surgery.
Yeah, one way to do it would be to use an old grunt/NCO, who was checked as not having issues her/him-self and then train her/him as a specialist. Sort of a nurse, not GP, in your terms.

With regard
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Old 7th August 2018, 05:19 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
No, a psychiatrist alone won't cut it. You need a combination of a psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker and life experience as a soldier or something similar or a personality, which can handle the absurdity of war.
I'm perfectly open to such combinations. All I wanted to say is just that I don't see why religion has to be a part of this mix.
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Old 7th August 2018, 08:22 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
Last year, the DoD started recognizing Humanism as a religious preference. Assuming enough identify, that could lead the way to US military Humanist chaplains.
If I remember correctly, they had someone all lined up to be appointed as such. He had cleared all but the final barriers. But then Republicans in congress got wind of what was happening and had a conniption, and that ended it. Application denied with no comment.
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Old 8th August 2018, 05:50 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
I'm perfectly open to such combinations. All I wanted to say is just that I don't see why religion has to be a part of this mix.
Because people who are religious want it to be in the mix.

You have to start with the understanding that not everybody shares your world view.

Then you have to understand that no matter how correct you think you are and no matter how obvious you think your correctness is, not everybody agrees with that.
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Old 8th August 2018, 05:53 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Because people who are religious want it to be in the mix.

You have to start with the understanding that not everybody shares your world view.

Then you have to understand that no matter how correct you think you are and no matter how obvious you think your correctness is, not everybody agrees with that.
The compromise is then that you have religious chaplains and secular counselors.
I agree that we shouldn't remove the religious chaplains, but add secular counselors.
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Old 8th August 2018, 01:57 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Obviously not "illegal" since the High Court has signed off on it, but definitely immoral and a misuse of taxpayer money.

Well it was struck down as illegal in 2012 which prompted the Federal Government to pass legislation so funding could continue. It was then struck down as illegal again in 2014 so the government hand balled it over to the States.
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Old 8th August 2018, 03:18 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
The compromise is then that you have religious chaplains and secular counselors.
I agree that we shouldn't remove the religious chaplains, but add secular counselors.
I like that solution, so long as they are accorded the same special status as Chaplains. Particular attention should be paid to their non-combatant status under the Geneva Conventions.
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Old 8th August 2018, 04:19 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
If I remember correctly, they had someone all lined up to be appointed as such. He had cleared all but the final barriers. But then Republicans in congress got wind of what was happening and had a conniption, and that ended it. Application denied with no comment.
Yeah, I think it was a Navy Chaplain. However, Congress, hasn't stopped what is a fairly introspective conversation among military chaplains about how to "minister" to "nones" or "spiritual nonreligious". Contrary to the black and white view most people unassociated with the military have, by and large, the Chaplain's Corps takes seriously their responsibility to minister to all beliefs in the service. Most chaplains would welcome humanists into their ranks. There is a real recognition that there's a void not being filled right now with younger service members.
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Old 9th August 2018, 03:10 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by Pope130 View Post
I like that solution, so long as they are accorded the same special status as Chaplains. Particular attention should be paid to their non-combatant status under the Geneva Conventions.
Yes, agree.
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Old 10th August 2018, 01:18 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Because people who are religious want it to be in the mix.

You have to start with the understanding that not everybody shares your world view.

Then you have to understand that no matter how correct you think you are and no matter how obvious you think your correctness is, not everybody agrees with that.
You seem to have missed the part where I said that even if you are religious, by sheer chance alone, whatever chaplain is there might not be your denomination.

Everyone pretends that the only problem is ministering to atheists, but for example what if you're a muslim? There ARE a couple of million of them in the USA too, and more in other places. I doubt that they brought imams to the Gulf or Afghanistan, and I doubt that it's that helpful to have a protestant or jewish minister as the only guys to talk to, if you have a crisis of faith in the middle of the whole "rah-rah-rah, let's show them muslims who's boss" idiocy.

Edit: and ok, let's say you brought an imam too. Well, sunni or shia? They kinda have a bigger disagreement with each other than protestants and catholics. Ok, so you're sunni. Liberal western style or wahhabi fundamentalist? Not all the latter are about blowing stuff up, and in fact the biggest ally in the area, Saudi Arabia, is all about wahhabism and pushing and funding wahhabism all over the damn place. Pakistan has a large share of fundamentalists and is a traditional ally of the west too. Plus has a large number of people who emigrated to all over the west, and some will end up in the army too. And then there are the Albanian imigrants. Ooer. Now those have their own flavour of islam that doesn't fit any other flavour. What then? Bring a chaplain of that flavour too?

Plus, from what I gather, the effective result is that the USA or at least several units are effectively pushing protestantism with their chaplains, which really isn't the army's job. That's not how the separation of church and state works. The Army is an institution of the state, and as such it should be separated from religion.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:10 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
You seem to have missed the part where I said that even if you are religious, by sheer chance alone, whatever chaplain is there might not be your denomination.

Everyone pretends that the only problem is ministering to atheists, but for example what if you're a muslim? There ARE a couple of million of them in the USA too, and more in other places. I doubt that they brought imams to the Gulf or Afghanistan, and I doubt that it's that helpful to have a protestant or jewish minister as the only guys to talk to, if you have a crisis of faith in the middle of the whole "rah-rah-rah, let's show them muslims who's boss" idiocy.

Edit: and ok, let's say you brought an imam too. Well, sunni or shia? They kinda have a bigger disagreement with each other than protestants and catholics. Ok, so you're sunni. Liberal western style or wahhabi fundamentalist? Not all the latter are about blowing stuff up, and in fact the biggest ally in the area, Saudi Arabia, is all about wahhabism and pushing and funding wahhabism all over the damn place. Pakistan has a large share of fundamentalists and is a traditional ally of the west too. Plus has a large number of people who emigrated to all over the west, and some will end up in the army too. And then there are the Albanian imigrants. Ooer. Now those have their own flavour of islam that doesn't fit any other flavour. What then? Bring a chaplain of that flavour too?

Plus, from what I gather, the effective result is that the USA or at least several units are effectively pushing protestantism with their chaplains, which really isn't the army's job. That's not how the separation of church and state works. The Army is an institution of the state, and as such it should be separated from religion.
You act like you're the first one to think of these issues, as though it weren't a fundamental issue the chaplain services of the various militaries of the world hadn't had to confront and solve for centuries.

The fundamental question is how to you administer to the spiritual needs of a group that holds a diversity of beliefs? You seem to think they should focus on their differences, but that wouldn’t make sense and would sabotage the mission. It makes a lot more sense for a chaplain service to concentrate on what these different peoples have in common.

As an aside, the local mosque down the street from me which primarily serves our local immigrant Muslim population includes both Sunni and Shia in their membership. While it’s true that in parts of the world the differences between these people give rise to violent conflict, this isn’t true everywhere and it’s certainly possible to concentrate on being “Muslim” without excluding slightly different variants.

Certainly I agree a US military Chaplain service shouldn’t push any one variety of religion. At the same time, that kind of thing gets notoriety precisely because it’s not how things should be done.
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Old 10th August 2018, 02:16 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
The fundamental question is how to you administer to the spiritual needs of a group that holds a diversity of beliefs? You seem to think they should focus on their differences, but that wouldn’t make sense and would sabotage the mission. It makes a lot more sense for a chaplain service to concentrate on what these different peoples have in common.

Certainly I agree a US military Chaplain service shouldn’t push any one variety of religion. At the same time, that kind of thing gets notoriety precisely because it’s not how things should be done.
In my experience, this is the way that it works. Chaplains care for those in their charge without regard to their beliefs.

I had a very odd experience in that regard back in the '90s. Dhahran Saudi Arabia, I was on duty crew when the Provisional Group chaplain asked for assistance in setting up the "multi-use facility" (we couldn't call it a Chapel out of deference to our hosts). Picture an agnostic atheist MSgt helping a Catholic Air Force Chaplain temporarily remake a room in the rec center into a Synagogue for a Passover service conducted by a Jewish Navy Chaplain flying in off a carrier.
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Old 10th August 2018, 02:39 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post

The fundamental question is how to you administer to the spiritual needs of a group that holds a diversity of beliefs? You seem to think they should focus on their differences, but that wouldn’t make sense and would sabotage the mission. It makes a lot more sense for a chaplain service to concentrate on what these different peoples have in common.

I have trouble picturing what this is.
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Old 11th August 2018, 12:14 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Thor 2 View Post
I have trouble picturing what this is.
Okay, first off. Religious people have "stolen" certain words about that which is common to all humans and turned it in to be about religion.

It means that it in a sense an atheist can't have spiritual needs, because the spiritual is religious, right?
No, the need of purpose, belonging to something bigger than oneself, that there is right and wrong and so on are all non-material. They are psychological, but even psychology has a limit, because it is within a certain understanding of the world.
The spiritual covers the individual parts of a world-view for a given human and connects to the purpose/meaning of life, moral values and so on. So if a person doubts her/his own purpose/meaning of life, moral values and so on, that person can have a spiritual crisis. It doesn't have to be that, it can be psychical(changes in the brain), psychological (PTSD and so on) or social(home life and so on).

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Old 11th August 2018, 02:45 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
You act like you're the first one to think of these issues, as though it weren't a fundamental issue the chaplain services of the various militaries of the world hadn't had to confront and solve for centuries.

The fundamental question is how to you administer to the spiritual needs of a group that holds a diversity of beliefs? You seem to think they should focus on their differences, but that wouldn’t make sense and would sabotage the mission. It makes a lot more sense for a chaplain service to concentrate on what these different peoples have in common.

As an aside, the local mosque down the street from me which primarily serves our local immigrant Muslim population includes both Sunni and Shia in their membership. While it’s true that in parts of the world the differences between these people give rise to violent conflict, this isn’t true everywhere and it’s certainly possible to concentrate on being “Muslim” without excluding slightly different variants.

Certainly I agree a US military Chaplain service shouldn’t push any one variety of religion. At the same time, that kind of thing gets notoriety precisely because it’s not how things should be done.
The evidence is very clear that the military has never "solved" the issue of "chaplains" dealing with the religious needs in armies that have a mix of religious beliefs. Because of family history I read a lot about chaplains in the military during the first World War - unfortunately this was via dead trees so I don't have a whole load of links to give you - but it is a fascinating topic if you want something to while a way a few evenings.
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Old 12th August 2018, 06:58 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
...belonging to something bigger than oneself...
This is one thing that I've always had a problem with. I don't really understand why it's a desirable thing. What is it about "belonging to something bigger than oneself" that is so attractive?
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Old 12th August 2018, 09:52 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
This is one thing that I've always had a problem with. I don't really understand why it's a desirable thing. What is it about "belonging to something bigger than oneself" that is so attractive?
Indeed. This has always wondered me too.

A closely related question is what is so desirable to be created with a purpose - or even why it is desirable to do as the Lord commands.
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Old 12th August 2018, 10:23 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
This is one thing that I've always had a problem with. I don't really understand why it's a desirable thing. What is it about "belonging to something bigger than oneself" that is so attractive?
Well, it is the recovered addict in me, that speaks there. It has nothing to do with God. I believe in humanity.
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Old 13th August 2018, 02:14 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
This is one thing that I've always had a problem with. I don't really understand why it's a desirable thing. What is it about "belonging to something bigger than oneself" that is so attractive?
Most humans have a natural tendency to want to work in a group, rather than work alone. They can get more done that way. So give them the option of being in a group and they will take it. This is not entirely fictional. They belong in a real church group.

Originally Posted by steenkh View Post
Indeed. This has always wondered me too.

A closely related question is what is so desirable to be created with a purpose - or even why it is desirable to do as the Lord commands.
People hate to think they are a worthless creatures and if they killed themselves it would make no difference.

Most people for some reason are like sheep. Give them an order, acting like you have some authority, and most people will obey it without question. In most cases this is a good thing. However it does have rather funny consequences. I have seen cars waiting on a green light at an intersection when there are no other cars around. Perfectly safe to go though a red light yet it is almost never done.
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Old 13th August 2018, 02:35 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Tommy Jeppesen View Post
Well, it is the recovered addict in me, that speaks there. It has nothing to do with God. I believe in humanity.
I sincerely hope your recovery is on solid ground. I find myself doubting the existence of humanity every time I watch the news.
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Old 13th August 2018, 11:38 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I sincerely hope your recovery is on solid ground. I find myself doubting the existence of humanity every time I watch the news.
Thanks for the concern.
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Old 13th August 2018, 11:56 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Most humans have a natural tendency to want to work in a group, rather than work alone. They can get more done that way. So give them the option of being in a group and they will take it. This is not entirely fictional. They belong in a real church group.
Right, fair enough, but we are already part of such groups. We are part of our neighbourhood, our city, our country, our world. The society in which we are embedded already fulfils the description of "something bigger that us". I get the impression that the people who use this phrase aren't thinking about that. They're thinking about something else. And I don't know what that is.
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Old Yesterday, 12:06 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
You act like you're the first one to think of these issues, as though it weren't a fundamental issue the chaplain services of the various militaries of the world hadn't had to confront and solve for centuries.

The fundamental question is how to you administer to the spiritual needs of a group that holds a diversity of beliefs? You seem to think they should focus on their differences, but that wouldn’t make sense and would sabotage the mission. It makes a lot more sense for a chaplain service to concentrate on what these different peoples have in common.

As an aside, the local mosque down the street from me which primarily serves our local immigrant Muslim population includes both Sunni and Shia in their membership. While it’s true that in parts of the world the differences between these people give rise to violent conflict, this isn’t true everywhere and it’s certainly possible to concentrate on being “Muslim” without excluding slightly different variants.

Certainly I agree a US military Chaplain service shouldn’t push any one variety of religion. At the same time, that kind of thing gets notoriety precisely because it’s not how things should be done.
The question isn't (just) what the chaplains themselves are trying to do. I'm sure most of them are fine folks who'd gladly talk to a Muslim or a Shinto just as well.

The problem is whether if I were, say, a conscripted Buddhist or Taoist or Shinto, I'd actually feel that enlightened to hear what someone learned from Jesus about it all.

What, this whole nightmare is his God is testing me? Well, my gods don't, or not like that. In fact, if I'm a Buddhist, depending on the sect, I might not even HAVE gods, or for other sects, they may be just a nod to a multitude of inferior afterlives. Why should I care about how I qualify for his? Or if I'm Shinto, I might have a continuum of spirits, but none of them is in a position to do that kind of testing and deciding my afterlife. Some may be powerful enough to be considered gods, but even Amaterasu (the sun), the mightiest spirit, isn't the one judging me.

But it's not JUST the issue of which god. Xianity and its followers tend to have a more black and white, good vs evil version of the world. Other religions don't. For a Buddhist, for example, it may be more about how YOU learn YOUR lesson and free YOURSELF from YOUR desires, rather than aligning neatly with the good or evil camp. For a Confucian (with the mention that it's not actually a religion, but it is ingrained in some asian cultures anyway), things may be more about how you fit society or how well you obey your parents, than a neat divide between good and evil, or not along the western lines.

An actual example from the Analects is that someone proposes that the right thing to do for a son, if the father steals a sheep, is to turn him in. Fairly standard view in the west too. Well, Confucius says no, the son should cover up for him, because that's the filial thing to do.

Western religion and society also has a more individualistic view. Even Jesus says, "I have come to turn a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; man's enemies will be the members of his own household." (Matthew 10:35-36) That very notion is abhorent to a Confucian. He should, according to Confucius, not follow his heart or faith or whatnot, but follow the wishes of his father even two years after his father died.

Etc.

So would I feel much inspiration talking to a guy representing a religion I think is false, and whose "wisdom" goes against everything I've ever been taught? He may mean well. He may not discriminate against me for being a different religion. But are his words going to do much for ME anyway? That's what I doubt.
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Old Yesterday, 12:21 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Most humans have a natural tendency to want to work in a group, rather than work alone. They can get more done that way. So give them the option of being in a group and they will take it. This is not entirely fictional. They belong in a real church group.
I'd say it's become more trivial than ever to find a group to fit in, and more importantly one that fits YOUR interests. Just by sheer size of the cities nowadays you can find a shooting range, or a cat fancier club, or a book club, or a Games Workshop place to game, or really whatever, within driving distance. Hell, you can find a few D&D fans and run a campaign in your own living room. Or if you're into spectator sports, just head over to the nearest pub and you'll find a few people to bond with over supporting the same football team. Add the Internet, and you can have communities dedicated to really anything you can imagine. We're on such a site right now, after all. Plus stuff like game guilds/clans/whatchamacallit, modding communities, etc, at the click of a mouse.

And not just the kids. My old retired mum runs a World Of Warcraft guild, for example.

There WAS a time when your average village pretty much had the church as the only local club, but nowadays it's actually EASIER to find a club you actually are interested in, than drive to church. I mean, you don't even have to wake up early on Sundays, and if it's an online one, you don't even have to drive anywhere.

So, really, I don't get why some people still need a church to get together with other people and feel like they belong to a group. There are a gazillion other groups that are just as easy to belong to, and by sheer chance alone one will be more interesting to you than listening to some dude drone about how Jesus is your personal deranged stalker. (You know, loves you so much, that he watches you even when you sleep or when you soap your genitals in the shower, and fancies torturing you for eternity if you're not equally obsessed about him. Or if you, shall we say, shower those genitals a bit too enthusiastically.)

Plus, I mean, Jesus Christ, you already heard all the palatable bits already. How much of a Jesus fanboy do you have to be to want to hear the 100'th time about how he was tortured and died and was buried and got out, and if he sees his shadow it means more weeks of winter? Even the average Star Wars fan doesn't watch the same movie again every Sunday. If the way to belong to a SW fan club involved hearing the same guy every week, droning about how great Luke Skywalker is, and how he died to save us all in The Last Jedi, you'd seriously consider switching clubs. You CAN find something more interesting to do.
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Old Yesterday, 01:13 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by rjh01 View Post
Most people for some reason are like sheep. Give them an order, acting like you have some authority, and most people will obey it without question. In most cases this is a good thing. However it does have rather funny consequences. I have seen cars waiting on a green light at an intersection when there are no other cars around. Perfectly safe to go though a red light yet it is almost never done.
Well, I also stop for a red light, even if nobody are around. You cannot really know for sure if nobody are around so there is always the slight chance of a fine, and the statistics are full of accidents where people crossed through a red light in the belief that they were alone.

I can understand when believers do the Lord's perceived biddings because they fear him, but I cannot understand why this should be a cause of joy, just like I do not feel joyous when I stop for a red light with nobody around.
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Old Yesterday, 08:58 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by HansMustermann View Post
I'd say it's become more trivial than ever to find a group to fit in, and more importantly one that fits YOUR interests. Just by sheer size of the cities nowadays you can find a shooting range, or a cat fancier club, or a book club, or a Games Workshop place to game, or really whatever, within driving distance. Hell, you can find a few D&D fans and run a campaign in your own living room.
For pete's sake, there are whole "X Games" like competitions that include events like Corn Hole, Rock-Paper-Scissors and playing volleyball only with your head.

There is no doubt, in the age of the internet, you can find people of common interest, regardless of how bizarre the interest. It's like Rule 38, except for social groups (which are also covered by Rule 38)
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Old Yesterday, 09:40 AM   #77
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Yep, exactly.
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Old Yesterday, 09:48 AM   #78
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ITT: Atheists don't understand theists, part # 11,357.
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Old Yesterday, 10:18 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
ITT: Atheists don't understand theists, part # 11,357.


Which theists?
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Old Yesterday, 11:23 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Which theists?
Theists in general, really.

Or are you asking for help understanding the topic of this thread in particular?
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