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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Andrew McCabe , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Michael Cohen , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 24th June 2018, 03:47 PM   #361
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
I'm a Keynesian, so hardly a firebrand. I'm a firm believer that a reasonably prosperous and secure middle class to which everyone can aspire is the foundation of a sound and progressive society. Keynesian redistribution did produce that, and it's the middle class which has really taken the hit since it was abandoned.
pretty much my view.

And also why I think that engagement with Iran would be the most profitable approach as that has a middle class with a voice but little power.
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Old 24th June 2018, 04:02 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post

That's both hilarious and very disturbing.

That his association with Trump is something he wants to avoid at all costs is hilarious.

That it is quite reasonable to make the assertion in court that a defendant's relationship with a sitting President of the United States would be of itself detrimental enough to irretrievably prejudice a jury is very disturbing.

It suggests some extremely uncomfortable things about the quality of the Presidency.
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Last edited by quadraginta; 24th June 2018 at 04:30 PM.
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Old 24th June 2018, 04:14 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
The assertion I'm asking you to provide evidence for is that there's a growing consensus "that there was a ton of monkey business with the FBI 302's and that McCabe (who actually lied repeatedly under oath) had a hand in it."

Here's the problem you're contending with.

If there was a consensus among three people out of a few hundred million that "that there was a ton of monkey business with the FBI 302's ...", and then three months later, after an incessant barrage of warped and lying Faux News reports and the self-serving clamoring of Repugnican Trumpist cronies in the Congress that such a thing was true, that number increased to five people, it would be perfectly true that there was a "growing consensus.
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Old 24th June 2018, 07:20 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
I grew up at a time relatively close to the end of WWII and one of the things I wondered about as a child was how the US had managed to avoid Hitler like leadership in its history. I didn't know why then and I still don't but my idea was that some combination of the cultural belief in the importance of the rule of law and the diversity of US religions and cultures prevented any one group from thinking it would be in their interest to impose their wishes on the population as a whole since they might not have the political power to succeed.

Spring forward 50 years or so and a lot of what I believed when I was young about American exceptionalism (I didn't know that term as a child but it is a good term to describe my thoughts back then) has been disproved, starting with the Republican reaction to Richard Nixon. His actions were clearly criminal and I thought either political party would have favored impeachment in that situation. The Republicans didn't. They circled the wagons around their guy against the interests of the country and only relented after the evidence against Nixon became a political liability for themselves.

The second George Bush administration was an eye opener for me. I thought no American president would take the country to war based on clear cut lies. I thought that opposition to torture was a core American value. I also thought that no American president would expend the lives of American soldiers to promote business opportunities for their cronies. I was wrong about all of that and once more my ideas about American exceptionalism were shown to be wrong.

Spring forward to the current situation. The US has elected an addled child like president whose main skill is to tell people lies they want to hear. He is without empathy, ethics or morality and yet he enjoys the support of about 40% of the population. A lot of the techniques he used to get elected and to sustain his support are right out of the Hitler play book. He enjoys the corrupt support of Fox News that is deriving a great deal of income by pandering to and misleading the Trump supporters. This coupled with the support of other media organizations like the National Enquirer are enabling behavior which would have been disabling for any other administration in my lifetime at least.

Trump now is cementing his power base with appointments based on the sole criteria of personal loyalty to the president. Trump is routinely undermining the rule of law abetted by Fox News lies and misrepresentations about the Mueller investigation. Fox News has effectively stopped any opposition to Trump by the Republican Party by making it impossible for Republicans to win elections that oppose Trump.

Altogether a scary situation in my view. But I am optimistic that Trump and his cronies will not succeed in destroying the American Democracy. Not because their morality or ethics limit what they are willing to do. They will fail partially because the American Democratic institutions are holding for right now and because Trump is an old man and he is on the cusp of entering the time when he will not be able to consolidate the gains he is making towards the destruction of the American democracy.

The above is a longer summary of what I meant by the post rwguinn asked about.
Actually, my query was about you using "Conservative Media", "National Inquirer" and "Truth" all in the same sentence...
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Old 24th June 2018, 07:54 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
Capitalism's got its own problems, related, in my opinion, to the concentration of wealth in fewer and fewer hands. It's a worldwide problem, shows no sign of slowing, and can only end in tears.
Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
I've read it and it's utterly vacuous.


ETA : I watched the video, and same thing. Meadows makes claims.



It's another Spygate - remember that one?
Oh well if it is utterly vacuous. Certainly you could easily show us....

suggestion tho? Declaring that "Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. Workingmen of all countries, unite!" does not count.
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Old 24th June 2018, 07:59 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh well if it is utterly vacuous. Certainly you could easily show us....

suggestion tho? Declaring that "Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. Workingmen of all countries, unite!" does not count.
We have to validate your argument for you?
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Old 24th June 2018, 08:03 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Here's the problem you're contending with.

If there was a consensus among three people out of a few hundred million that "that there was a ton of monkey business with the FBI 302's ...", and then three months later, after an incessant barrage of warped and lying Faux News reports and the self-serving clamoring of Repugnican Trumpist cronies in the Congress that such a thing was true, that number increased to five people, it would be perfectly true that there was a "growing consensus.
what if instead of a incessant barrage from "Faux News" (That is clever, did you make that up on your own?... "Faux News" sounds serious) or self-serving clamoring from "Repugnican Trumpist cronies" (Swooooon... I fear that I am arguing with the entire Algonquin Roundtable at this point) it actually was originally sourced from the Inspector General Michael Horowitz, who was appointed by Repugnican Trumpist crony Barack Obama?

Crummy Repugnican Trumpist cronies like Barack Obama! Grrrr!
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Old 24th June 2018, 08:06 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
We have to validate your argument for you?
did you mean to quote my post, or the person who declared it "vacuous"?

Because that was his argument, not mine.

Let me lay it out: The article was "vacuous" because.....
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Old 24th June 2018, 08:27 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
TLDR: What do you find most attractive about Trump?

His mental acuity and level of health.

Is that a fair summary?

Although perhaps not intended as a serious question it made me think. He seems to have some severe mental health issues and for somebody with issues like that he has done very well for himself. His brand of shooting from the hip, poorly thought out decision making has led to tremendous failures many times and without his complete lack of ethics he would have completely failed financially. So do we give him credit for being good at cheating because his mental health problems necessitate cheating as his only path to success? He does have a personality that seems to provide entertainment to a substantial segment of the population, so it seems that one might give him some profs as an entertainer.


One idea is that Trump is controlled by his mental illness, the people to be disgusted with are the more normal people that have cynically supported him for their own self serving purposes.
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Old 24th June 2018, 09:41 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
TLDR:

What a pity. You missed an excellent post, its worth the read


Looking at what has been happening recently on the southern border makes me think that Mexicans are fast becoming the Jews of the 21st century
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Old 24th June 2018, 09:45 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Here's the problem you're contending with.

If there was a consensus among three people out of a few hundred million that "that there was a ton of monkey business with the FBI 302's ...", and then three months later, after an incessant barrage of warped and lying Faux News reports and the self-serving clamoring of Repugnican Trumpist cronies in the Congress that such a thing was true, that number increased to five people, it would be perfectly true that there was a "growing consensus.
"There's a growing consensus" is the same thing as "a lot of people are saying". It just includes vocabulary past the Trump/3rd grader level.
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Old 24th June 2018, 10:05 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
"There's a growing consensus" is the same thing as "a lot of people are saying". It just includes vocabulary past the Trump/3rd grader level.
It also relies on the fact that the people claiming "a growing consensus" are more often than not, news commenters, columnists, spokespersons, etc... They're what's known as the "movers and shakers" and just by bringing it up they can pretty much rely on Maureen in Muskegon now agreeing with them (about something she'd never heard of), thereby.... A Growing Consensus.
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Old 24th June 2018, 10:29 PM   #373
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
...

Looking at what has been happening recently on the southern border makes me think that Mexicans are fast becoming the Jews of the 21st century

The vilification of Mexicans has been one of the sadder aspects of all of this for me. It is disgusting that people that work hard and contribute to society are vilified by a pompous disgusting pig of a person that has routinely cheated people for his personal gain. It is even more disgusting that people find this behavior acceptable.
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Old 24th June 2018, 10:40 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
The vilification of Mexicans has been one of the sadder aspects of all of this for me. It is disgusting that people that work hard and contribute to society are vilified by a pompous disgusting pig of a person that has routinely cheated people for his personal gain. It is even more disgusting that people find this behavior acceptable.
Not just acceptable. They applaud it.
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Old 25th June 2018, 12:10 AM   #375
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
what if instead of a incessant barrage from "Faux News" (That is clever, did you make that up on your own?... "Faux News" sounds serious) or self-serving clamoring from "Repugnican Trumpist cronies" (Swooooon... I fear that I am arguing with the entire Algonquin Roundtable at this point) it actually was originally sourced from the Inspector General Michael Horowitz, who was appointed by Repugnican Trumpist crony Barack Obama?

Crummy Repugnican Trumpist cronies like Barack Obama! Grrrr!
If you have a link where Horowitz provides figures that establish that there is a growing consensus "that there was a ton of monkey business with the FBI 302's and that McCabe (who actually lied repeatedly under oath) had a hand in it.", then please provide it. Or, indeed, any link at all that has data on which someone could reasonably base that assertion.
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Old 25th June 2018, 01:50 AM   #376
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
What a pity. You missed an excellent post, its worth the read


Looking at what has been happening recently on the southern border makes me think that Mexicans are fast becoming the Jews of the 21st century
oh, I didn't miss it and agree, hence the question mark.maybe I should have said "executive summary"?

And I know that was being unfair to the post.
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Old 25th June 2018, 05:38 AM   #377
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
It also relies on the fact that the people claiming "a growing consensus" are more often than not, news commenters, columnists, spokespersons, etc... They're what's known as the "movers and shakers" and just by bringing it up they can pretty much rely on Maureen in Muskegon now agreeing with them (about something she'd never heard of), thereby.... A Growing Consensus.

It's like the time that Fox News ran a story about one class in one school singing a song about historically significant African-Americans, which included a verse about President Obama. Later in the day, the host of one of their opinion shows was ranting about students being forced to sing songs praising President Obama, comparing it to North Korea. Still later in the day, the news story had morphed into the "public outrage" over students being forced to sing songs about President Obama. In reality, the only outrage was what they themselves had generated earlier that day.
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Old 25th June 2018, 06:08 AM   #378
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This Monday?
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Old 25th June 2018, 06:10 AM   #379
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
This Monday?
Some arrests happened a while ago.
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Old 25th June 2018, 06:44 AM   #380
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
This Monday?
This get's funnier every time I read it.
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Old 25th June 2018, 06:49 AM   #381
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
This Monday?
Scientists are working on technology to permeate the Trump fact-free bubble. Even though it shimmers like a soap bubble, it turns out it's so powerful it makes titanium seem like a grape skin. Progress is lacking.
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Old 25th June 2018, 07:07 AM   #382
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
Scientists are working on technology to permeate the Trump fact-free bubble. Even though it shimmers like a soap bubble, it turns out it's so powerful it makes titanium seem like a grape skin. Progress is lacking.
Reminds me of the engineer's eternal woe.

Whenever you make something idiot-proof, the universe builds a better idiot.
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Old 25th June 2018, 07:35 AM   #383
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh well if it is utterly vacuous. Certainly you could easily show us....
I don't think you understand the word "vacuous".


Quote:
suggestion tho? Declaring that "Let the ruling classes tremble at a communist revolution. The proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains. They have a world to win. Workingmen of all countries, unite!" does not count.
What a very peculiar person you are.
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Old 25th June 2018, 07:37 AM   #384
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Originally Posted by davefoc View Post
The vilification of Mexicans has been one of the sadder aspects of all of this for me. It is disgusting that people that work hard and contribute to society are vilified by a pompous disgusting pig of a person that has routinely cheated people for his personal gain. It is even more disgusting that people find this behavior acceptable.

It's been going on for quite some time.

One of the reasons we didn't go ahead and steal the other half of Mexico in 1848 was because it had so many of those people in it, and we didn't want them all ending up as American citizens.
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Old 25th June 2018, 07:44 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
I don't think you understand the word "vacuous".
I'm getting the feeling that I am not going to see an explanation of your bare declaration that a detailed article including an interview with a former senior FBI agent was in your words: vacuous.

It is groovy, we know.
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Old 25th June 2018, 08:51 AM   #386
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Special counsel obtains Trump ally Erik Prince's phones, computer

Quote:
Special Counsel Robert Mueller is digging deeper into Trump ally and Blackwater founder Erik Prince, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the matter.

Prince, America’s most famous private military contractor, acknowledged last week that he “cooperated” with Mueller’s investigation of Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election after falling under scrutiny amid questions about an alleged effort to establish a backchannel between the Trump administration and the Kremlin, something Prince has vehemently denied.

ABC News has since learned that Mueller is also reviewing Prince’s communications. In response to questions from ABC News, a spokesperson for Prince released a statement noting that Prince has provided Mueller with “total access to his phone and computer.”
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Old 25th June 2018, 12:44 PM   #387
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Trump Tweets

"I have tried to stay uninvolved with the Department of Justice and FBI (although I do not legally have to), because of the now totally discredited and very expensive Witch Hunt currently going on. But you do have to ask why the DOJ & FBI aren’t giving over requested documents?"
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Old 25th June 2018, 02:05 PM   #388
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

"I have tried to stay uninvolved with the Department of Justice and FBI (although I do not legally have to), because of the now totally discredited and very expensive Witch Hunt currently going on. But you do have to ask why the DOJ & FBI aren’t giving over requested documents?"
Probably because its an active investigation, and many members of the House (including most notably Nunes) have shown themselves to be both completely incompetent and unlikely to handle the documents in a responsible, unbiased manner (see, for example, Nunes' little journey around Washington and secret late-night visit to the white house.)

Yeah, I know... you probably already knew that. Just thought it needed to be said.
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Old 25th June 2018, 05:03 PM   #389
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Trump Tweets

"The hearing of Peter Strzok and the other hating frauds at the FBI & DOJ should be shown to the public on live television, not a closed door hearing that nobody will see. We should expose these people for what they are - there should be total transparency!"

"Why is Senator Mark Warner (D-VA), perhaps in a near drunken state, claiming he has information that only he and Bob Mueller, the leader of the 13 Angry Democrats on a Witch Hunt, knows? Isn’t this highly illegal. Is it being investigated?"
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Old 25th June 2018, 06:40 PM   #390
phiwum
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

"The hearing of Peter Strzok and the other hating frauds at the FBI & DOJ should be shown to the public on live television, not a closed door hearing that nobody will see. We should expose these people for what they are - there should be total transparency!"

"Why is Senator Mark Warner (D-VA), perhaps in a near drunken state, claiming he has information that only he and Bob Mueller, the leader of the 13 Angry Democrats on a Witch Hunt, knows? Isn’t this highly illegal. Is it being investigated?"
That second one, holy cow.
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Old 26th June 2018, 01:16 AM   #391
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I wonder if that "total transparency" will extend to televising his own questioning by Meuller, when it happens?
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Old 26th June 2018, 02:16 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by P.J. Denyer View Post
I wonder if that "total transparency" will extend to televising his own questioning by Meuller, when it happens?
Or, you know, releasing his tax returns.
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Old 26th June 2018, 02:23 AM   #393
P.J. Denyer
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Or, you know, releasing his tax returns.
Smart billionaires don't pay taxes.....


[Sorry, I just threw up in my mouth a little]
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Old 26th June 2018, 03:22 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Trump Tweets

"The hearing of Peter Strzok and the other hating frauds at the FBI & DOJ should be shown to the public on live television, not a closed door hearing that nobody will see. We should expose these people for what they are - there should be total transparency!"

"Why is Senator Mark Warner (D-VA), perhaps in a near drunken state, claiming he has information that only he and Bob Mueller, the leader of the 13 Angry Democrats on a Witch Hunt, knows? Isn’t this highly illegal. Is it being investigated?"

Trump calling for total transparency. I'll go along with that. Oh, he doesn't mean for himself.
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Old 26th June 2018, 06:05 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
That second one, holy cow.
Orin Hatch made a big deal yesterday about a return to "civility" in response to Maxine Waters.

I wonder if he will have anything to say today?
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Old 26th June 2018, 11:28 AM   #396
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Trump Tweets

“The most profound question of our era: Was there a conspiracy in the Obama Department of Justice and the FBI to prevent Donald Trump from becoming President of the U.S., and was Strzok at the core of the conspiracy?” Judge Andrew Napolitano"
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Old 26th June 2018, 11:42 AM   #397
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It's telling that the most profound question he can think of can be answered with a one-syllable word.
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Old 26th June 2018, 12:59 PM   #398
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Originally Posted by timhau View Post
It's telling that the most profound question he can think of can be answered with a one-syllable word.
And is about him.
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Old 26th June 2018, 02:53 PM   #399
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Remember the judge Trump and his ilk praised in the Manafort case?

Quote:
This verbal aggression got the attention of America’s president, Donald Trump, who read some of Ellis’ remarks aloud approvingly at an NRA event the next day and called him “a highly respected judge” who is “very special.”

Even at the time, though, legal observers cautioned that Ellis’ musings in court did not amount to a belief that Manafort should go free; moreover, Manafort is also charged with other crimes in Washington, D.C., where a judge recently revoked his bail and sent him to jail over suspected witness tampering. And, completing the loop, Ellis has now issued a ruling asserting that Mueller’s charges against Manafort are in fact legitimate. Wrote Ellis:

...

It is “plausible” and indeed ultimately persuasive,” he said further, “to argue that the [Manafort] investigation and prosecution has some relevance to the election which occurred months if not years after the alleged misconduct.”
Linky.
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Old 26th June 2018, 04:56 PM   #400
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Considering Prince voluntarily gave those up and considering he went to the Seychelles to hide his suspicious meeting and given Cohen hid Prague from his passport, I'm guessing he knows enough and there's nothing on those devices.
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