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Old 21st June 2018, 09:17 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
I swear to FSM, every time I hear about the next ridiculous thing this idiot comes out with I just want to yell at the TV, "Trumpy, you can do stupid things!" I'm just not willing to taint my memories of a great TV show by doing so.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that does this.
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Old 21st June 2018, 09:36 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Good news.

At least Trump's Space Cadets will be able to rent flight time from American companies.
The military regularly contracts out to private civilian agencies for support services. The Navy especially hires out for a lot of its logistics needs. They often do partnerships with ferry companies to build, lease, and operate troop transports.

The Air Force already hires out to private companies for all its space launch needs. Even the OTV rides to orbit on a ULA rocket.
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Old 21st June 2018, 09:55 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The military regularly contracts out to private civilian agencies for support services. The Navy especially hires out for a lot of its logistics needs. They often do partnerships with ferry companies to build, lease, and operate troop transports.

The Air Force already hires out to private companies for all its space launch needs. Even the OTV rides to orbit on a ULA rocket.

Yeah. I know.

So what?

Please note the adjective "American" in my post. It was placed there for a reason, not by accident.

There are currently no American companies which the military can subcontract sending live humans into space.

SpaceX and Boeing may change that.
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Old 21st June 2018, 10:02 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Yeah. I know.

So what?

Please note the adjective "American" in my post. It was placed there for a reason, not by accident.

There are currently no American companies which the military can subcontract sending live humans into space.

SpaceX and Boeing may change that.
And if there's a lucrative new contract to be had, in providing manned spaceflight services to the military, we can change "may" to "will". The only reason it's not "will" already is budget priorities. And I tend to agree with those priorities. It doesn't really matter where commodity space flight services come from. There's no national security interest or other national interest that mandates that Americans ride to space on American rockets.
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Old 21st June 2018, 10:51 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
And if there's a lucrative new contract to be had, in providing manned spaceflight services to the military, we can change "may" to "will". The only reason it's not "will" already is budget priorities. And I tend to agree with those priorities.

Okay.

That doesn't change the fact that your response was irrelevant to my post.

Quote:
It doesn't really matter where commodity space flight services come from. There's no national security interest or other national interest that mandates that Americans ride to space on American rockets.

Wouldn't that depend on why they were doing it?

What you probably meant to say is that so far there haven't been.

The topic was Trump's Space Force. Within that purview there might (probably would) certainly be national security interests which would mandate that Americans ride to space on American rockets.

I expect even you could think of reasons why our Air Force shouldn't be dependent on Russian jets, after all.
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Old 21st June 2018, 02:04 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I just hope that Trump himself designs the uniforms. Can you imagine?

Actually, it'll probably be Ivanka, won't it?

I suggest something like this:

https://i.imgur.com/NmVghNw.jpg
I'm thinking, Kanye will probably design the uniforms. He will be too busy, picking out the sound for the lazers and stuff like that.
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Old 21st June 2018, 02:41 PM   #127
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Okay.

That doesn't change the fact that your response was irrelevant to my post.




Wouldn't that depend on why they were doing it?

What you probably meant to say is that so far there haven't been.

The topic was Trump's Space Force. Within that purview there might (probably would) certainly be national security interests which would mandate that Americans ride to space on American rockets.

I expect even you could think of reasons why our Air Force shouldn't be dependent on Russian jets, after all.
I think we are dealing with somebody who would support ANYTHING that Trumpy does, just so long as he gets his tax cuts.
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Old 21st June 2018, 02:43 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Nakani View Post
I'm thinking, Kanye will probably design the uniforms. He will be too busy, picking out the sound for the lazers and stuff like that.
Sound good to me.
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Old 21st June 2018, 02:45 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I think we are dealing with somebody who would support ANYTHING that Trumpy does, just so long as he gets his tax cuts.
You think wrong on this, as usual. But it doesn't really matter, for the purpose of this thread.
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Old 22nd June 2018, 09:56 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Okay.

That doesn't change the fact that your response was irrelevant to my post.
Fair enough. I must have misunderstood your reasons for bringing it up.
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Old 25th June 2018, 06:47 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by Nakani View Post
I'm thinking, Kanye will probably design the uniforms. He will be too busy, picking out the sound for the lazers and stuff like that.
Pew pew pew!
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Old 25th June 2018, 09:15 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Maybe they can de-mothball the shuttle and finally make use of all those previously unused design features demanded by the US military?
Nope. The Shuttle fleet is irreversibly retired; the entire launch infrastructure has been extensively modified (and is continuing to be so) to support Space Launch System and the KSC “multi-user” capability. Even the engines are being used for SLS; Exploration Mission-1 will use four RS-25s which already have flown multiple times aboard the Shuttle and extensively upgraded since then.

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
I really disliked the film of "Starship Troopers".
I strongly disagree with a lot of Henlein's ideas in the novel, but he deserved to have them accurately stated, rather then the strawman ideas that the director gave us.
“Strawman” is way too kind. The novel had points to make about duty and citizenship; the movie had underwear models running around in pointless mobs on the ground, and flying spaceships in pointless mobs above it.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Why are manned launches necessary? The Air Force does space missions all the time, but they haven't bothered with manned missions in almost fifty years.
USAF is interested in Earth reconnaissance, communications, and how to protect our orbital assets while thinking about how we might deny adversaries the use of theirs if things got hairy. They’re not into human-tended orbital experiments and planetary exploration, which is why you fly people into space and build space stations.

Last edited by sts60; 25th June 2018 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 25th June 2018, 10:12 PM   #133
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What are you talking about?

Starship Troopers (the movie) was AWESOME!

No none ever claimed that it was attempting to be faithful to the book.
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Old 26th June 2018, 12:23 AM   #134
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OFF TOPIC! *does dramatic pointing gesture*
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Old 26th June 2018, 12:28 AM   #135
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I really want someone to ask him what he wants the space force to do. This answer is going to be comedy gold. The attack ads will write themselves. You know this moron wants a bunch of space cruisers patrolling around the Earth, ready to bombard our enemies from space.
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Old 26th June 2018, 12:36 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I really want someone to ask him what he wants the space force to do. This answer is going to be comedy gold. The attack ads will write themselves. You know this moron wants a bunch of space cruisers patrolling around the Earth, ready to bombard our enemies from space.
He actually does. He is boldly going where no lunatic has gone before.
Quote:
He said when it comes to defending America, "it is not enough to merely have an American presence in space. We must have American dominance in space."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-s...ng-2018-06-18/
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Old 26th June 2018, 12:51 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
He actually does. He is boldly going where no lunatic has gone before.https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-s...ng-2018-06-18/

"Mr. President, this is Enterprise actual"

"Go ahead actual"

"Sir the battle group has achieved geosynchronous orbit what are you orders?".

"Actual, deploy the fleet and prepare to defend the homeland".

"Um Mr. President, Sir, there's no one else here".
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Old 26th June 2018, 01:00 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
I really want someone to ask him what he wants the space force to do. This answer is going to be comedy gold. The attack ads will write themselves. You know this moron wants a bunch of space cruisers patrolling around the Earth, ready to bombard our enemies from space.
For 40%+ of the US electorate, the idea of global pre-eminence is a positive vote winner. If the Democratic Party choose to take President Trump to task over this, I think it will backfire badly
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Old 26th June 2018, 01:03 AM   #139
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Old 26th June 2018, 04:10 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Nope. The Shuttle fleet is irreversibly retired; the entire launch infrastructure has been extensively modified (and is continuing to be so) to support Space Launch System and the KSC “multi-user” capability. Even the engines are being used for SLS; Exploration Mission-1 will use four RS-25s which already have flown multiple times aboard the Shuttle and extensively upgraded since then.
To add to this: HLC-39A (historic landing complex 39A) is now missing the entire rotating service structure (RSS) that was designed to allow payload processing of the shuttle, with only the RSS hinge left attached to the fixed service structure (FSS - the launch tower).

So even if we somehow magicked up some shuttles, you'd have nowhere to launch them.
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Old 26th June 2018, 04:37 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
What are you talking about?

Starship Troopers (the movie) was AWESOME!

No none ever claimed that it was attempting to be faithful to the book.
Clancy Brown and Michael Ironside are awesome!

It's a decent "turn the brain off and watch the explosions" sort of movie, complete with a "lets mock fascists by ratcheting it up to 11" subtext.
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Old 26th June 2018, 04:44 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Octavo View Post
To add to this: HLC-39A (historic landing complex 39A) is now missing the entire rotating service structure (RSS) that was designed to allow payload processing of the shuttle, with only the RSS hinge left attached to the fixed service structure (FSS - the launch tower).

So even if we somehow magicked up some shuttles, you'd have nowhere to launch them.
Not to mention that SpaceX has built their horizontal integration facility right over the crawlerway (first attachment). And we can’t even get them there; the Mobile Launch Platform has been extensively modified for SLS, including the permanent (re)addition of the tower (second attachment). And we couldn’t control it; the Launch and Checkout electronic and software infrastructure is completely changed over for SLS/Orion. No going back.
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File Type: jpg E4C8870F-5760-4346-87EF-D64AF1169317.jpg (108.0 KB, 11 views)
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Old 26th June 2018, 05:22 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
I'm glad I'm not the only one that does this.
I guarantee you, if I ever met the idiot in person, right after I planted my fist in his face I'd yell that at him. Hence the reason I plan to NEVER put myself in a position to be able to meet him. He is literally one of the few people who make me absolutely certain I would not be able to hold back my visceral, knee-jerk reactions to his presence; I honestly do not think I would be able to control myself. So I do the next best thing; I stay as far away from him as humanly possible, considering I live in the general victinity of DC. Therefore, I'm never confronted with the temptation.
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Old 26th June 2018, 06:46 AM   #144
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Old 26th June 2018, 07:24 AM   #145
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Time expired before I could fix the sideways image in my post, so here’s the MLP and umbilical tower in “this side towards space” configuration.
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Old 26th June 2018, 07:57 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I'm getting at this whole thread is pointless. It doesn't really change anything, and it doesn't give us any information we didn't already have in November 2016. So what's the point?
I can see several reasons for this particular discussion:

- Some people may genuinely want to discuss the concept of a separate military branch for dealing with space matters. Are there any benefits? What are the drawbacks? Is it even legal (what with various international treaties regarding the use of weapons in space.) Under a competent president who is able to articulate the need (or should the Republicans manage to win a significant number of seats in November and congress is staffed with Trump devotees), the creation of a new branch of the military would be a huge deal

- Even if Trump can't unilaterally create a "space force" and the issue is D.O.A., it will still cost a significant amount of money with whatever studies are done to examine the issue, etc. I think some people (in particular American tax payers) might be curious as to just how much of their tax money is being wasted (at a time when Trump is trying to cut back on health insurance for children and funding for sciences.)

- It provides a window into Trump's current thought process. Where is he getting his ideas from? I have heard that Mattis was against the idea, so if Trump isn't heeding the advice from the one person who should know, what does that suggest about the power structure of his cabinet?
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Old 26th June 2018, 08:37 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I can see several reasons for this particular discussion:

- Some people may genuinely want to discuss the concept of a separate military branch for dealing with space matters. Are there any benefits? What are the drawbacks? Is it even legal (what with various international treaties regarding the use of weapons in space.) Under a competent president who is able to articulate the need (or should the Republicans manage to win a significant number of seats in November and congress is staffed with Trump devotees), the creation of a new branch of the military would be a huge deal
Such a discussion might in fact be interesting. This thread seems like it would contribute more noise than signal to that conversation, though.

Quote:
- Even if Trump can't unilaterally create a "space force" and the issue is D.O.A., it will still cost a significant amount of money with whatever studies are done to examine the issue, etc. I think some people (in particular American tax payers) might be curious as to just how much of their tax money is being wasted (at a time when Trump is trying to cut back on health insurance for children and funding for sciences.)
If the question is worth discussing, then it's worth studying. And if the President wants a space force, then studies are needed to support the argument in favor of it. And I bet that such studies are conducted on a regular basis anyway. Between RAND, the Pentagon, and Congressional committees, I bet the question of American military presence in space comes up often, with attendant studies on what form it could and should take.

I for one don't mind some of my tax dollars going to such studies.

But this is what I mean about the thread contributing more noise than signal. The president says something silly about what is actually a serious subject, and somehow you twist this into the conclusion that it is a waste of money to seriously study the subject. Trump is not actually that magical, Segnosaur.

Quote:
- It provides a window into Trump's current thought process. Where is he getting his ideas from? I have heard that Mattis was against the idea, so if Trump isn't heeding the advice from the one person who should know, what does that suggest about the power structure of his cabinet?
Kreminology.
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Old 26th June 2018, 08:42 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Time expired before I could fix the sideways image in my post, so here’s the MLP and umbilical tower in “this side towards space” configuration.
I just assumed that was the "horizontal integration facility" and that you had your pictures mixed up....
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Old 26th June 2018, 08:25 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
I guarantee you, if I ever met the idiot in person, right after I planted my fist in his face I'd yell that at him.
Robert De Niro's participating.

Who knew?

Are we surprised people want to kill Hillary when the "good" side says that?

Sheesh, this was a fun thread about space cadets.
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Old 26th June 2018, 08:31 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
For 40%+ of the US electorate, the idea of global pre-eminence is a positive vote winner. If the Democratic Party choose to take President Trump to task over this, I think it will backfire badly
That exact same demographic believe in TV evangelism, chemtrails, UFOs and Ronald Reagan's imminent return from the dead as Jesus. So the problem you have identified is is not that they vote, it's that they are uneducated dolts just like Donny and they vote. So perhaps the key to the solution is education...

Meanwhile, take comfort in the fact that a population THAT uneducated would never, EVER be able to participate in any Space Force. They would have trouble lighting the big blue touch-paper and standing far enough back.
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Last edited by Norman Alexander; 26th June 2018 at 08:33 PM.
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Old 27th June 2018, 02:53 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
Not to mention that SpaceX has built their horizontal integration facility right over the crawlerway (first attachment). And we can’t even get them there; the Mobile Launch Platform has been extensively modified for SLS, including the permanent (re)addition of the tower (second attachment). And we couldn’t control it; the Launch and Checkout electronic and software infrastructure is completely changed over for SLS/Orion. No going back.
Awesome post - thanks for the extra info!
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Old 27th June 2018, 05:27 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by The Atheist View Post
Robert De Niro's participating.

Who knew?

Are we surprised people want to kill Hillary when the "good" side says that?

Sheesh, this was a fun thread about space cadets.
This is a disingenous quote at best, as I proceeded to then point out that I would never willingly put myself into a position to meet him, therefore the point was moot; plus, punching someone is nowhere near the level of threatening to kill someone, a threat which has been spouted MULTIPLE times by multiple Republicans toward Ms. Clinton. But, to offer a counterpoint, I am more than certain there are people you are aware of that, should you come face to face with them, you would have difficulty controlling YOUR reactions to them, and so you sensibly do not put yourself in a position to meet them; it's called being aware of your limitations and adjusting your actions accordingly. It has nothing to do with his politics and everything to do with his actions and my subsequent distaste for a morally reprehensible human being. I would react similiarly if you were to confront me with a rapist, a murderer, or a pedophile (at least one of which, Trump is possibly an example of); therefore, I do not take steps to put myself in situations where I might knowingly come face to face with a rapist, murderer, or pedophile. If you continue to conflate my acknowledgement of my own limitations and taking steps to avoid being confronted with a situation where I might find those limitations tested with people who have actively threatened the life of another human being, trust me, we are going to have words. Kindly cease putting words I never said into my mouth and we'll call it quits; fair enough?
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Old 27th June 2018, 05:32 AM   #153
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None of that is the topic of the thread. Get a room, you two.
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Old 27th June 2018, 05:43 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Yeah, the first step in creating a Space Force: influx of a gajillion dollars.

The infrastructure needed to do this is mindboggling.
The Tholians will build a web, and the US will have to pay for it.
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Old 27th June 2018, 05:49 AM   #155
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I recall during the height of the Star Wars research under Reagan, that one astrophysicist (I can’t recall who) said he was in favor of the whole thing.

This met with some amazement, but he said...”Star Wars is going to be useless, of course, but the research will help get us back into space.”

That was during the “we beat the Russians to the Moon, so that’s enough money spent on that space stuf....” phase.
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Old 27th June 2018, 05:59 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by alfaniner View Post
The banner is fluttering in the wind...clearly indicating hoax!
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Old 27th June 2018, 12:30 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by Sabrina View Post
...plus, punching someone is nowhere near the level of threatening to kill someone,...
Outside of the numerous cases of one punch killing someone...

(My point was that lowering yourself to the level of the other side isn't a good ploy, but lovely defensive answer)

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
None of that is the topic of the thread. Get a room, you two.
As Jesus once said: let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Lucky you're a poster who never goes off-topic, I guess.

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Meanwhile, on the Space Force - are we still allowed to launch rockets from NZ? We're a known anti-US country and about to launch four satellites today.
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Old 5th July 2018, 04:42 PM   #158
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spaceforce

trump supporters love SpaceForce, "it is like the cloud, we can store music out there". "We can't trust NASA, at least trump with get out there and tell us the truth". "Neil Armstrong will head SpaceForce", we have to bring him back. And "spaceforce will stop the next 9/11".

https://youtu.be/LYQX-BPUqN4?t=88
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Old 5th July 2018, 04:47 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
trump supporters love SpaceForce, "it is like the cloud, we can store music out there". "We can't trust NASA, at least trump with get out there and tell us the truth". "Neil Armstrong will head SpaceForce", we have to bring him back. And "spaceforce will stop the next 9/11".

https://youtu.be/LYQX-BPUqN4?t=88
Are those people for real? If so, I weep for our country.
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Old 5th July 2018, 06:21 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
trump supporters love SpaceForce, "it is like the cloud, we can store music out there". "We can't trust NASA, at least trump with get out there and tell us the truth". "Neil Armstrong will head SpaceForce", we have to bring him back. And "spaceforce will stop the next 9/11".

https://youtu.be/LYQX-BPUqN4?t=88
"Uploader has not made this video available in your country".
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