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Old 21st July 2018, 03:39 PM   #1
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Stand Your Ground Florida, Stand Your Ground

I'm at a loss for words. This man went outside to protect the mother of his son... He saw a man screaming at her. He tried to protect her. And in Florida that means you get shot dead. He bleeds out in front of her and their son.

#1: We can only hope the state attorney does not count being pushed for yelling at someone a reasonable threat on ones life.

#2: Even if the correct thing is done in this case, the law needs to be repealed ASAP.



Quote:
Britany Jacobs, 24, was sitting in her car in a handicapped parking space outside a Circle A Food Store while her boyfriend Markeis McGlockton, 28, and their son Markeis McGlockton Jr., 5, went into the store.

While the father and son were in the store, Jacobs was approached by Michael Drejka, 47, police said. The two then got into an argument because of where Jacobs was parked, according to police.

"According to witnesses, McGlockton exited the store and walked over to Drejka who was still arguing with Jacobs in the parking lot. Witnesses say McGlockton forcibly pushed Drejka causing Drejka to fall to the ground. Witnesses told detectives that Drejka was on the ground when he took out a handgun and fired one single round at McGlockton striking him in the chest," police said in a statement.


Quote:
"I don't make the law. I enforce the law," Pinellas County Sheriff Bob Gualtieri said during a news conference today. "The law in the state of Florida today is that people have a right to stand their ground and have a right to defend themselves when they believe that they are in harm."

Go **** yourself Florida.
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Old 21st July 2018, 03:47 PM   #2
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Quote:
McGlockton
That's the problem right there.

All kidding aside, do you have a link? I'm too lazy to google.

Never mind, I found this one:

https://www.tampabay.com/news/public...pace_170174041

Sounds like the white guy was looking for trouble. McGlockton shouldn't have shoved him, but he didn't deserve to get shot for it.
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Old 21st July 2018, 04:05 PM   #3
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They both seemed to be hotheads, McGlockton pushed Drejka down - but then made no further move.

You don't need to think that McGlockton's behavior was perfect to understand that Drejka was not really in danger anymore. Seems like this ought to be prosecutable - McGlockton was backing away with his hands at his side.

This seems much more clear cut than the Martin/Zimmerman shooting - and not in favor of the man with the gun.
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Old 21st July 2018, 04:15 PM   #4
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It's possible the shooter was looking for a fight.
Quote:
It wasn’t the first time he saw Drejka in a fight with another customer. A couple of months back, Rick Kelly stopped by the store, parking his tanker truck in the same handicap spot.

The details to Thursday’s incident are similar: Drejka walking around the truck checking for decals, then confronting Kelly, 31, about why he parked there. The fight escalated, and Drejka threatened to shoot him, Kelly said.

"It’s a repeat. It happened to me the first time. The second time it’s happening, someone’s life got taken," Kelly said. "He provoked that."

And unlike the Zimmerman shooting this one has an on scene witness other than the shooter.

Ranb

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Old 21st July 2018, 05:05 PM   #5
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Park your jalopy in a handicap spot.
Someone tells you to move it.
Getting in screaming argument.
Hulking boyfriend blindsides guy twice his age.
Hulking boyfriend removed from gene pool.

Yeah, not too upset about this one.

(Ain’t that just like a guy who would park in a handicapped spot, he brought a shove to a gun fight)
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Old 21st July 2018, 05:21 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
They both seemed to be hotheads, McGlockton pushed Drejka down - but then made no further move.

You don't need to think that McGlockton's behavior was perfect to understand that Drejka was not really in danger anymore. Seems like this ought to be prosecutable - McGlockton was backing away with his hands at his side.

This seems much more clear cut than the Martin/Zimmerman shooting - and not in favor of the man with the gun.

Which is why when there are two hotheads one of them had better draw first.
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Old 21st July 2018, 05:28 PM   #7
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I don't think this is the most clear-cut abuse of the stand-your-ground defense. The shooter here had at least some vague reason to believe he needed to defend himself. Zimmerman didn't have anything other than his own self-reported (and racist) fear.

But I agree that the law is not doing what it was intended to and should be abolished.
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Old 21st July 2018, 05:29 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
Which is why when there are two hotheads one of them had better draw first.
That pretty much seems to be Florida law.

Get in a fight. First one to shoot wins. Does not matter who started the fight or why.
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Old 21st July 2018, 05:31 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
I don't think this is the most clear-cut abuse of the stand-your-ground defense. The shooter here had at least some vague reason to believe he needed to defend himself. Zimmerman didn't have anything other than his own self-reported (and racist) fear.

But I agree that the law is not doing what it was intended to and should be abolished.
Zimmerman claimed they were fighting Martin was getting the upper hand in the fight. Zimmerman did have a few injuries, they looked minor.

Under Florida law, that's all he needed.

This guy does not even have that.
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Old 21st July 2018, 05:37 PM   #10
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I call BS. He shot him because he was pissed, not because the threat continued. If the law says 'no matter what' then it needs to be rewritten.
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Old 21st July 2018, 05:52 PM   #11
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Would you consider the "threat continuing" if the KNOCKER-DOWNER" told the "KNOCKED-DOWN" "get up and i'll knock you down again". You guys must not have been in the kind of fights I've experienced, one participant getting put on the ground rarely results in the other backing off and stopping the fight.
That being said the stand your ground thing's recipe for legal murder
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Old 21st July 2018, 05:54 PM   #12
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I'm going to call BS in this too. The Police need to charge him. If he wants to claim SYG, then let him do it before a Judge.
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Old 21st July 2018, 06:02 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
I'm going to call BS in this too. The Police need to charge him. If he wants to claim SYG, then let him do it before a Judge.
Agreed. Drejka initiated and escalated the conflict. He should be staring down murder 2 and have to prove otherwise if he thinks he can
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Old 21st July 2018, 06:03 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by kedo1981 View Post
Would you consider the "threat continuing" if the KNOCKER-DOWNER" told the "KNOCKED-DOWN" "get up and i'll knock you down again". You guys must not have been in the kind of fights I've experienced, one participant getting put on the ground rarely results in the other backing off and stopping the fight.
That being said the stand your ground thing's recipe for legal murder
Tough to claim self defense when you picked the fight.
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Old 21st July 2018, 06:17 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by kedo1981 View Post
Would you consider the "threat continuing" if the KNOCKER-DOWNER" told the "KNOCKED-DOWN" "get up and i'll knock you down again". You guys must not have been in the kind of fights I've experienced, one participant getting put on the ground rarely results in the other backing off and stopping the fight.
That being said the stand your ground thing's recipe for legal murder
I disagree with SYG being a recipe for murder, the problem is that it's not being enforced or understood correctly.

This is the Law...

Quote:
(2) A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony. A person who uses or threatens to use deadly force in accordance with this subsection does not have a duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground if the person using or threatening to use the deadly force is not engaged in a criminal activity and is in a place where he or she has a right to be.
SYG doesn't mean that you can just pull out your gun and start blasting if you feel threatened, as some seem to think it does.

SYG only means that if you are threatened in a place you are legally allowed to be, you don't have the legal duty to retreat so as to prevent the situation escalating.

It is a part of the Self Defense laws which state that "A person is justified in using or threatening to use deadly force if he or she reasonably believes that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony."

What I disagree with the Sheriff here is that being pushed over gives a person a reasonable belief "that using or threatening to use such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself..."

This is why I believe that any SYG claim needs to be made in front of a Judge, not determined by the Sheriff.


As a couple of side notes, so as not to derail...

Zimmerman never claimed SYG, his claim was pure self defense.

He claimed that he was attacked, his head bashed against concrete, and then that Martin reached for his (Zimmerman's) gun during the struggle.

The prosecution was unable to disprove any of these claims.
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Old 21st July 2018, 06:18 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Thermal View Post
Agreed. Drejka initiated and escalated the conflict. He should be staring down murder 2 and have to prove otherwise if he thinks he can
Ridiculous. The deceased came out of the store and blind sided him., slamming the victim to the concrete.

The deceased chose poorly.
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Old 21st July 2018, 06:23 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Ridiculous. The deceased came out of the store and blind sided him., slamming the victim to the concrete.

The deceased chose poorly.
Being knocked to the ground by someone is not enough to have a reasonable belief that the person is then going to inflict great bodily harm, or that you are facing imminent death.
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Old 21st July 2018, 06:29 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Being knocked to the ground by someone is not enough to have a reasonable belief that the person is then going to inflict great bodily harm, or that you are facing imminent death.
Disagree. The deceased blindsided him and wrecked him. That would be 15 yards and an ejection for targeting. The guy who got blindsided seemed totally dazed.

Pro tip, do not park in handicapped spots.
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Old 21st July 2018, 06:30 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Ridiculous. The deceased came out of the store and blind sided him., slamming the victim to the concrete.

The deceased chose poorly.
If only the guy had a camera instead of a gun. Then he could have shot some snaps and notified the authorities with the evidence of illegal parking, instead of starting arguments while armed.
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Old 21st July 2018, 06:34 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Hungry81 View Post
If only the guy had a camera instead of a gun. Then he could have shot some snaps and notified the authorities with the evidence of illegal parking, instead of starting arguments while armed.
Takes two to argue, don’t it? She quite easily could have moved her hoopty out of the handicapped spot, she chose poorly.
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Old 21st July 2018, 06:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Disagree. The deceased blindsided him and wrecked him. That would be 15 yards and an ejection for targeting. The guy who got blindsided seemed totally dazed.
Really? Care to provide a link to this information, none of it in in the previously linked article.

Quote:
Pro tip, do not park in handicapped spots.
You advocate for capital punishment for parking violations now?
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Old 21st July 2018, 06:44 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Really? Care to provide a link to this information, none of it in in the previously linked article.

You advocate for capital punishment for parking violations now?
Wait, you just declared quite authoritatively that the victim was not in fear for his life, and that is your response. Mmmm_mmmmm! Delicious irony.

Seems, like the deceased’s mistake was “parking” an armed man on his ass because his baby momma was too *********** lazy to park like a human being.

Did you miss the whole shove and the victim hitting the concrete? Look at the video again.
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Old 21st July 2018, 06:53 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Really? Care to provide a link to this information, none of it in in the previously linked article.



You advocate for capital punishment for parking violations now?
Only for N-words.
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Old 21st July 2018, 06:53 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Wait, you just declared quite authoritatively that the victim was not in fear for his life, and that is your response. Mmmm_mmmmm! Delicious irony.
The Law doesn't actually say that the person must be in fear for his life, it says he must have a reasonable fear for his life. I do not believe that his apparent fear was reasonable.

Quote:
Seems, like the deceased’s mistake was “parking” an armed man on his ass because his baby momma was too *********** lazy to park like a human being.
and apparently you think that is an acceptable reason to kill someone, I don't.

Quote:
Did you miss the whole shove and the victim hitting the concrete? Look at the video again.
If you have a video link that please posted it as I asked you to do.
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Old 21st July 2018, 07:06 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
The Law doesn't actually say that the person must be in fear for his life, it says he must have a reasonable fear for his life. I do not believe that his apparent fear was reasonable.



and apparently you think that is an acceptable reason to kill someone, I don't.



If you have a video link that please posted it as I asked you to do.
Really? You missed the shove and the guy slamming down on the concrete?

Huh.

‘k.
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Old 21st July 2018, 07:30 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Really? You missed the shove and the guy slamming down on the concrete?

Huh.

‘k.
Shoving someone and backing away, as McGlockton clearly did, is not threatening death or grievous bodily injury. It's assault/battery. Dejka wasn't even under threat anymore when he shot; it was over.

And he did not 'blindside' him. Dejka was facing him when he got shoved.
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Old 21st July 2018, 07:50 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Disagree. The deceased blindsided him and wrecked him. That would be 15 yards and an ejection for targeting. The guy who got blindsided seemed totally dazed.
Unbelievable. What results in an advantage for the fowled team in a sport should be met with capital punishment in your worldview?

Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Pro tip, do not park in handicapped spots.
This has nothing to do with parking in handicapped spots! If it did your worldview would be even more demented than it is right now.

If you are to be consistent, if someone shoved you to the ground after you parked in a handicapped spot then you would be justified in shooting that person dead.

This is ridiculous!
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Old 21st July 2018, 08:05 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Wait, you just declared quite authoritatively that the victim was not in fear for his life, and that is your response. Mmmm_mmmmm! Delicious irony.

Seems, like the deceased’s mistake was “parking” an armed man on his ass because his baby momma was too *********** lazy to park like a human being.

Did you miss the whole shove and the victim hitting the concrete? Look at the video again.
The victim was backing away with his hands at his side when the man pulled the trigger.

If the shooter was in fear for his life, then he must lead a fearful existence. If you think your life would have been in danger in such a situation, then I would not want you to be armed, because that fear was not reasonable. His life was no longer in any reasonable danger. One might argue he was justified in pulling gun out, but once he did the victim's body language changed, he began to move back.

I don't care what the police think, the fear this shooter felt was not reasonable. He should be prosecuted.
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Old 21st July 2018, 08:16 PM   #29
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Now sure how I forgot the link in the OP:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/gunman-par...ry?id=56715356



Also, the spot being a handicap spot has nothing to do with whether or not this is a valid use of SYG. Anyone bringing it up has an ulterior motive IMO. They want to discredit the victim in any way possible.

The law is so stupid. Would the mother have reason to shoot the stranger yelling at her?? Seems like just as much a valid reason to me...
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Old 21st July 2018, 08:21 PM   #30
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Oh sure, you just got violently attacked and slammed to the ground, but the attack was totally over.

Ridiculous.
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Old 21st July 2018, 08:21 PM   #31
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What a *********** pussy. Big guy couldn't settle his dispute with his fists, like a real man, so he had to pull out a gun like a frightened old lady. Sad.
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Old 21st July 2018, 08:24 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh sure, you just got violently attacked and slammed to the ground, but the attack was totally over.

Ridiculous.

I'll highlight the part for you that did not happen.
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Old 21st July 2018, 08:27 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh sure, you just got violently attacked and slammed to the ground, but the attack was totally over.

Ridiculous.
You're no fun. Logger was better at this.
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Old 21st July 2018, 08:29 PM   #34
angrysoba
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Oh sure, you just got violently attacked and slammed to the ground, but the attack was totally over.

Ridiculous.
When such things happen, there should be appropriate punishment.

A fine for a parking violation.
Charged with assault.

No problem there, the old guy could easily take the number plate of the car.
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Old 21st July 2018, 09:17 PM   #35
PhantomWolf
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The victim was backing away with his hands at his side when the man pulled the trigger.

If the shooter was in fear for his life, then he must lead a fearful existence. If you think your life would have been in danger in such a situation, then I would not want you to be armed, because that fear was not reasonable. His life was no longer in any reasonable danger. One might argue he was justified in pulling gun out, but once he did the victim's body language changed, he began to move back.

I don't care what the police think, the fear this shooter felt was not reasonable. He should be prosecuted.
Yup, I see why TBD refused to post a link to the video. It's quite clear, the police have it wrong, they need to charge with Murder 2 and let the court sort it out. There is no way a reasonable person would have feared for their lives in this situation.
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Old 21st July 2018, 09:26 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by This is The End View Post
Go **** yourself Florida.
I don't think you really understand self-defense law, and "stand your ground" in particular. Florida law isn't as different as commonly portrayed. For an analysis from an actual legal expert on the topic:
Law of Self Defense VIDEO: Just because it’s lawful to present the gun doesn’t mean it’s lawful to press the trigger
Law of Self Defense: VIDEO: Shove-Shoot Case Sheriff’s Statement
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Old 21st July 2018, 09:27 PM   #37
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
If the law says 'no matter what'
It doesn't.
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Old 21st July 2018, 09:45 PM   #38
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Edited by jsfisher:  ...SNIP... Edited for compliance with rule 0 of the Membership Agreement


In any other state in the USA the man would be in jail right now. Except maybe Texas. And that is a maybe.

So, logically, if every other state does not have this ****, then Florida law IS different.
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Old 21st July 2018, 09:48 PM   #39
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Yet another thread where a hotheaded idiot with a gun will find defenders despite his inexcusable actions.

What a hero! Zimmerman-like qualities. Starts abusing and bullying a young woman who commits a minor misdemeanour, suffers a reasonable reaction from her partner, kills him.

NRA has yet another poster boy.
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Old 21st July 2018, 09:58 PM   #40
Brainster
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Yet another thread where a hotheaded idiot with a gun will find defenders despite his inexcusable actions.

What a hero! Zimmerman-like qualities. Starts abusing and bullying a young woman who commits a minor misdemeanour, suffers a reasonable reaction from her partner, kills him.

NRA has yet another poster boy.
Look at the video. The dead guy blindsides the shooter. Seems like a classic case of stand your ground, except that the shooter couldn't stand his ground, he had already been knocked over.

From other comments, it sounds like the shooter is something of a handicapped parking spot activist; I'm assuming since neither of the articles I read on the incident mention it explicitly, the car in question did not have a handicapped plate.
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