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Tags Amazon.com , Jeff Bezos , tax issues

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Old 7th August 2018, 01:51 PM   #41
dudalb
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
What's the difference between Nazism and Communism?

You can talk about Nazism without anyone arguing it's never been given a fair shot and needs to be tried again.
This.
If you don't like the current system, fine, but come up with something new to replace it,not an idea that has been tried time and time again, and failed time and time again.
It really comes down to that a lot of people on the left really do feel,deep down, that making a profit is, in and of itself, evil.
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Old 7th August 2018, 01:54 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Jeff Bezos is personally worth $150 Billion bucks. This writer contends that that illustrates failures of tax and social policy. Discuss.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business...llions/566552/
I think the tax rate should be higher for those with high incomes,but I am skeptical about those who adovocate what amount to mass redistribution of wealth.
Should Bezos pay his workers more? Yes. But I also feel is not like anbody pointed a gun at people and made them buy stuff from Amazon, or made them buy Kindles.
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Old 7th August 2018, 01:54 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
SO what is the answer?
"Workers COntrol the Means of Production" has been tried, and did not work out very well....
Maybe we could "Make America Great Again" by returning to the income tax structure of the 1950s. IIRC the top rate, for incomes over something like $200k, was around 90%. And we were great. The greatest, even. If you hate high tax rates you hate the greatest generation!
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Old 7th August 2018, 02:13 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Maybe we could "Make America Great Again" by returning to the income tax structure of the 1950s. IIRC the top rate, for incomes over something like $200k, was around 90%. And we were great. The greatest, even. If you hate high tax rates you hate the greatest generation!
And that 90% high tax rate was not sustainable. It was the liberal Kennedy administration that lowered it.
A higher tax rate, yes, but 90% amount to confiscation.
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Old 7th August 2018, 02:19 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
And that 90% high tax rate was not sustainable. It was the liberal Kennedy administration that lowered it.
A higher tax rate, yes, but 90% amount to confiscation.
I think it was sustained for quite some time. Over 70% up until 1981, IIRC. We had some pretty good years while very high marginal tax rates were in place.

Either way, it is a solution without actually seizing control of the means of production. And that was the question.
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Old 7th August 2018, 02:21 PM   #46
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I'm confused and maybe someone can help me out. If he is making all this money claimed because of the increase in value of Amazon and should be taxed on the increase of the value of the stock and/or investments before actually realizing the profit, then what happens in the case of the stock tanking?

Am I missing something from this theoretical standpoint that there should be taxation prior to actual realization of the profits? I'm not saying he isn't benefiting from the value increase in the stock, I'm just confused in the implementation of a tax program that would be enforced on increased value prior to the sale of the stock.
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Old 7th August 2018, 02:31 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
I'm confused and maybe someone can help me out. If he is making all this money claimed because of the increase in value of Amazon and should be taxed on the increase of the value of the stock and/or investments before actually realizing the profit, then what happens in the case of the stock tanking?

Am I missing something from this theoretical standpoint that there should be taxation prior to actual realization of the profits? I'm not saying he isn't benefiting from the value increase in the stock, I'm just confused in the implementation of a tax program that would be enforced on increased value prior to the sale of the stock.
I do not know his particular situation, but most people of such means require more than $80k per year to live on. Since Amazon does not pay a dividend I am assuming that he is selling Amazon stock to provide his income stream, then I would suggest that such sales would be taxable.

I am not suggesting a tax on asset appreciation alone. Sorry if you got that impression.
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Old 7th August 2018, 02:37 PM   #48
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Fair enough. The numbers that are being thrown around here are specifically related to asset appreciation, though. I know he sold $1B or so in stock last year, but is there any indication that he didn't pay the appropriate federal taxes on that amount of income? I mean, I know he paid no state income tax (pretty sure that Washington state has none).
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Old 7th August 2018, 02:38 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
Fair enough. The numbers that are being thrown around here are specifically related to asset appreciation, though. I know he sold $1B or so in stock last year, but is there any indication that he didn't pay the appropriate federal taxes on that amount of income? I mean, I know he paid no state income tax (pretty sure that Washington state has none).
I assume he paid all necessary taxes. He's an actual billionaire.
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Old 7th August 2018, 02:52 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
"His net worth rose 40B" has nothing to do with wages he paid out. You would need to look up "profits on operations" for that. For all we know that increase may have come from a holding of Microsoft stock.
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Old 7th August 2018, 03:00 PM   #51
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But this is why I'd rather we did away with the income tax and replace with a property tax. Not when you sell, but on what you hold on Dec. 31.

I think it would take about 2% of the value of America to "make the country great again". And eliminate SS tax, unemployment insurance, health insurance cost, all covered by 2%. How much would Jeff pay?

eta: about $3B, or 7% of his "income". Pretty low rate eh?
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Old 7th August 2018, 03:01 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
1. Let's be honest in a world of Enrons and Worldcoms and companies that have huge profit margins, massive income disparages, shady business practices, and have caused full on economic crises.. at least Amazon does something. At least it produces something. At least it's had an effect on the technology world and personal lives. At least there's innovation and drive and passion in there somewhere. At least we've got Kindles out of it. Now I get this is light Whataboutism so I'm not leaning on this too hard but all thing's being equal I'm always supporter of the Lewis Black suggested rule of "If you have a company and you can't describe, in one sentence, what... it... does... then it's illegal."

So it's okay if they screw people over so long as they produce something in the process, got it.

Yeah, that's a bit of hyperbole, but really, that's not really a good justification for being a robber baron. The old southern plantation owners produced a lot of things, cotton, food, etc., but that does not in any way justify or soften slavery or indentured servitude.

Quote:
2. Bezos, Jobs, Gates, Musk, Zuckerburg and etc... I do wonder since they guys to be public faces of their companies and stay in the news (as in you're not going recognize Greg Penner or Darren Woods if you saw them in the street or know who they are without Googling them) it just makes it easier to... demonize them.

They're the founders/CEOs, they set the tone for how the business will be run, and hold ultimate responsibility for their businesses. Who else should we point to, the assistant vice president of marketing?

And unlike Bezos, Bill Gates at least is spending a real substantial chunk of his net worth on charitable causes, $4.6 billion to the Gates Foundation last year. He's still worth over $80 billion, but that's a fair bit more paid out to charity than Bezos' paltry $107 million. Either one of them is worth more than most nations.

Quote:
3. On the same page... there is a little of the distrust of the techie, new money, GenX and onward types in some of this. If Bezos had made his fortune in oil or energy conglomeration and wore a suit and set in a boardroom and wasn't on TV all the time but all the numbers were the same...

Don't know if that is directed at me, but it's utter nonsense, and I did clearly address the fact that Bezos and Amazon are simply one of many who are part of the problem. Tech companies like Amazon and Google are merely the latest in a long line, and have grown up in a time and place where worker protections are currently at their weakest in decades. These companies have managed to take advantage of a favourable political climate to become worse in many ways than their predecessors. Plus, the tech industry in general is one of the largest employers in the US at this time. Not to mention that I am GenX and working in the tech industry, so your accusations sound more than a little disingenuous.

Thanks to the megacorps, and tech megacorps in particular, wages in the US have remained flat or declined compared to inflation, despite the GDP growing considerably faster, and megacorp profits reaching record levels. There is even a labour shortage in some industries and places, but businesses are not increasing salaries to attract new workers. NPR had a story on this recently.
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Old 7th August 2018, 03:18 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I think it was sustained for quite some time. Over 70% up until 1981, IIRC. We had some pretty good years while very high marginal tax rates were in place.

Either way, it is a solution without actually seizing control of the means of production. And that was the question.

Yes. It was specifically "Reaganomics", aka "trickle-down economics" that lowered the tax rates, removed a whole lot of taxes on businesses and billionaires, and signaled the start of the downward slide that we're currently seeing the results of. The GOP favouring the rich and powerful, making them more rich and powerful, at the expense of the working class and poor at first, now the middle class. And Trump's latest massive tax cut for billionaires is already worsening the problem.

Originally Posted by casebro View Post
But this is why I'd rather we did away with the income tax and replace with a property tax. Not when you sell, but on what you hold on Dec. 31.

I think it would take about 2% of the value of America to "make the country great again". And eliminate SS tax, unemployment insurance, health insurance cost, all covered by 2%. How much would Jeff pay?

eta: about $3B, or 7% of his "income". Pretty low rate eh?

Clearly property taxes are not the answer. Particularly since they're regressive, and affect property owners in lower income brackets greater than they do upper income brackets. AAMOF, they make it far more difficult for lower incomes brackets to actually own property, as we're currently seeing happening in Seattle, as rising property taxes increases are forcing long-time residents to sell and move out of the city.

A far better solution is a universal progressive tax on income and capital gains. It doesn't need to be anywhere near 90% at the top, but it does need to be graduated by income bracket, and it needs to close loopholes and tax shelters that are only available to the super rich.
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Last edited by luchog; 7th August 2018 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 7th August 2018, 04:20 PM   #54
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This just popped up in my feed:

Amazon halved corporation tax bill despite UK profits tripling

Quote:
Amazon has revealed that its UK corporation tax bill almost halved to £4.5m last year, days after the US company posted a record profit of $2.5bn (£1.9bn) in its most recent quarter.

The company, which has been locked in a race with Apple and Alphabet to be the world’s first trillion-dollar business, revealed that pre-tax profits at its UK business tripled from £24m in 2016 to £72m last year.

The figures were reported by Amazon UK Services, the company’s warehouse and logistics operation that employs more than two-thirds of its 27,000-plus UK workforce, in its annual financial filing to Companies House.

The company almost halved its declared UK corporation tax bill from £7.4m in 2016 to £4.5m last year. It received a tax credit of £1.3m from the UK authorities in 2016, and last year paid £1.7m tax on its profits.
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Old 7th August 2018, 04:40 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
They are known as "Amholes" for a reason.
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Old 7th August 2018, 09:41 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
And here we see again clearly the pathetic pseudo-humanitarian concern displayed by liberals and other defenders of capitalism. Kill workers by the hundreds of thousands? Not a peep from the libs. Suggest applying some good old guillotine justice to the individuals responsible[*] for it? Watch the libs fall all over themselves in suddenly-found humanitarian concerns.
Not a peep from the libs? What kind of liberals are we talking here. I am well left of center (the American center) and I'm making noise.
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Old 8th August 2018, 05:44 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
Why is Jeff Bezos so anxious to kill people?

Two workers dying accidently is nothing like Jeff Bezos killing them. More importantly, Marxist revolution has a history of making working conditions worse, not better.

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
And that's just the tip of the iceberg, keeping his workers in poverty leads to many more deaths outside the workplace itself.
And Amazon employees are not among those dying of poverty. More importantly, Marxist revolution has a history of leading to people dying by the millions from poverty.

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
And here we see again clearly the pathetic pseudo-humanitarian concern displayed by liberals and other defenders of capitalism. Kill workers by the hundreds of thousands? Not a peep from the libs. Suggest applying some good old guillotine justice to the individuals responsible[*] for it? Watch the libs fall all over themselves in suddenly-found humanitarian concerns.
Is that what you think? Who's behind those Indiana Department of Labor safety regulations that's leveling fines against Amazon? That's doing a lot more to guarantee the safety of warehouse employees than murdering Jeff Bezos would.

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
And that gets us into the core of liberal-capitalist ethics, the worth of a human life is proportional to how wealthy a person is. Which makes one wonder why liberals think that they'd get anything other than laughter in response to their fake "humanitarian" concerns about human life.
Which, for all its faults, is much better than Marxism, which places the value of human life below adherence to a dogma which has historically failed to improve the lives of anyone.

Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
* Jeff Bezos has stolen more than $150 billion from his workers, leaving them impoverished en masse. I'm not going to bother doing the math, but I'm sure calculating this with poverty-related death rates it comes down to hundreds, if not more, deaths of workers directly caused by Jeff Bezos. The man is literally a mass murderer.
Of course you're not going to "bother" doing the math. You have a pretty good idea that if you did it wouldn't support your claims.

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Old 8th August 2018, 10:34 AM   #58
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Marxism....and this is not a new observatation...works a lot like a religion.
Infallible source of all wisdom, blind obedience to dogma a virtue,violent persecution of non beleivers and heretics,and a willingness to indulge in mass slaughter because God..or in this case The Party..tells you it is necessary.
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Old 8th August 2018, 11:19 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
I saw this in the article.
Quote:
Amazon UK’s warehouse and logistics staff and management enjoyed a bumper $164m (£125m) payout from the company share scheme – a rise of almost a third on 2016’s £95m bonanza – thanks to the company’s surging share price.

On average the thousands of staff who handle orders received about £3,000 per person last year. Senior staff will have taken home considerably more.
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Old 8th August 2018, 11:25 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Which employees? For many of its miserable warehouse jobs, Amazon contracts with independent labor suppliers. Its workers aren't actually Amazon employees. And even higher up the food chain, it takes a peculiar personality to survive.
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/16/t...lace.html?_r=0
http://fortune.com/2015/08/17/amazon...times-workers/
http://gawker.com/amazon-is-a-time-t...yee-1569841307
http://gawker.com/inside-amazons-biz...ure-1570412337
http://gawker.com/amazon-insiders-te...gly-1570866439
http://gawker.com/working-at-amazon-...nce-1573522379
https://www.motherjones.com/politics...ehouses-labor/
Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
They are known as "Amholes" for a reason.
As pointed out before it seems a lot of employees do not feel that way.

Over 20,000 reviews. I am sure this includes a broad spectrum of employees.

3.8 overall review
74% recommend to a friend
86% approve of the CEO

ETA: The main thing I don't like about Amazon is that I did not have the foresight to buy it in its infancy. Also that as it has grown I have always thought the stock was overpriced. Luckily I never shorted the stock.

Last edited by eeyore1954; 8th August 2018 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 8th August 2018, 11:28 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
Over 20,000 reviews. I am sure this includes a broad spectrum of employees.

3.8 overall review
74% recommend to a friend
86% approve of the CEO
Apparently those just don't count.
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Old 8th August 2018, 01:50 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Marxism....and this is not a new observatation...works a lot like a religion.
Infallible source of all wisdom, blind obedience to dogma a virtue,violent persecution of non beleivers and heretics,and a willingness to indulge in mass slaughter because God..or in this case The Party..tells you it is necessary.


And it’s proposed as a solution to a lot of things it doesn’t solve.

Poverty? Nope.
Income inequality? Nope.
Inadequate health care? Nope.
Racism, sexism, homophobia? Nope.

Frankly I’d rather have the religious guy praying to solve these issues than a Marxist who thinks killing people to take their stuff will help.
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Old 8th August 2018, 04:15 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
I saw this in the article.

That only applies to full-time employees, not contractors or part-timers.

And it sure as hell doesn't apply to the bulk of their employees who are in the US. Like I said, just because the UK has better worker protections and a better labour market doesn't mean that everyone else around the world gets treated as well.
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Old 8th August 2018, 04:18 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by eeyore1954 View Post
As pointed out before it seems a lot of employees do not feel that way.

Over 20,000 reviews. I am sure this includes a broad spectrum of employees.

3.8 overall review
74% recommend to a friend
86% approve of the CEO

ETA: The main thing I don't like about Amazon is that I did not have the foresight to buy it in its infancy. Also that as it has grown I have always thought the stock was overpriced. Luckily I never shorted the stock.

Waiting for your to provide the evidence that GlassDoor.com is a representative statistical average of all Amazon employess, and not a self-selected group of upper-level employees who have better working conditions than the rank and file. Oh, and BTW, Amazon (and many other employers) "strongly encourage" their employees to rate them on GlassDoor to counteract the negative reviews.

Until that happens, and given what I know about GlassDoor and the way it gets used by employers (from personal experience), I'll take that with a huge grain of salt.
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Old 8th August 2018, 05:28 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Waiting for your to provide the evidence that GlassDoor.com is a representative statistical average of all Amazon employess, and not a self-selected group of upper-level employees who have better working conditions than the rank and file.
So 7 news article represent Amazon, 20,000 employee reviews don't.

Got it.
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Old 8th August 2018, 08:15 PM   #66
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What to do about Jeff? How about elect him President? He's smarter, more honest, and, BTW, far richer than the current one. Probably won't be trying to steer government business to Amazon to line his pockets by a trivial percentage.

Seriously, majority of the employees of <insert Fortune 1000 company> probably hate their management. I did.
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Old 9th August 2018, 09:56 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by JoeMorgue View Post
So 7 news article represent Amazon, 20,000 employee reviews don't.

Got it.
1/ The news articles, particularly the NY Times, are broad descriptions of working conditions at Amazon. They go way beyond the personal opinions of any individual employees. And many lower-level Amazon "employees" are contracted through temp agencies who hire and fire; they don't actually work for Amazon at all, and might not be eligible to comment on Glassdoor (I don't really know how that works).

2/ The fact that working conditions aren't as bad as they could be doesn't mean that they couldn't be better, particularly at the lowest end of the scale. Amazon warehouse workers might think they'd gone to heaven if they could get jobs as Walmart cashiers. Other profitable businesses don't abuse the human beings who are the source of their success.

3/ There are broad questions about how the increasing concentration of wealth affects law and public policy and their impact on all of us. The mega-billionaire Kochs have spent hundreds of millions of dollars promoting policies that enhance their wealth, but maybe aren't so good for the rest of us. The issue isn't just that a few people have vast fortunes, but that the money gives them enormous political power that the Constitution never intended.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business...llions/566552/

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Old 9th August 2018, 09:58 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
.....
Is that what you think? Who's behind those Indiana Department of Labor safety regulations that's leveling fines against Amazon? That's doing a lot more to guarantee the safety of warehouse employees than murdering Jeff Bezos would.
......
Who's talking about murdering Jeff Bezos? I just want him to treat his employees better and pay more taxes.
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Old 9th August 2018, 10:07 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
I do not know his particular situation, but most people of such means require more than $80k per year to live on. Since Amazon does not pay a dividend I am assuming that he is selling Amazon stock to provide his income stream, then I would suggest that such sales would be taxable.
....
Bezos has a vast personal fortune outside his Amazon stock resulting from selling stock and investing the cash years ago. He owns enormous amounts of land. He paid $250 million for the Washington Post from his pocket change. And he can borrow against his stock as collateral if he wants. He doesn't have sell a single share to benefit from its increased value.
https://www.businessinsider.com/jeff...s-in-america-3
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Old 9th August 2018, 11:50 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Who's talking about murdering Jeff Bezos?
http://www.internationalskeptics.com...3#post12385393

Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
I just want him to treat his employees better and pay more taxes.
Me too. I think murdering him should be off the table.
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Old 9th August 2018, 12:03 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Bezos has a vast personal fortune outside his Amazon stock resulting from selling stock
Stock sales are taxed.

Quote:
and investing the cash years ago.
Gains from capital investment are taxed.

Quote:
He owns enormous amounts of land.
Real property is taxed.

Quote:
He paid $250 million for the Washington Post from his pocket change.
Revenues from the Post's business are taxed. Capital gains from investment in the Post and by the Post are taxed. Income he receives from the Post is taxed.

Quote:
And he can borrow against his stock as collateral if he wants.
Gains from investing borrowed funds are taxed.

Quote:
He doesn't have sell a single share to benefit from its increased value.
On the other hand, whatever benefits he realizes, whether income or capital gains, are taxed. And of course if he does sell shares, the sale is taxed.

What's your problem with Jeff Bezos, again?
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Old 9th August 2018, 01:12 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Stock sales are taxed.


Gains from capital investment are taxed.


Real property is taxed.


Revenues from the Post's business are taxed. Capital gains from investment in the Post and by the Post are taxed. Income he receives from the Post is taxed.


Gains from investing borrowed funds are taxed.


On the other hand, whatever benefits he realizes, whether income or capital gains, are taxed. And of course if he does sell shares, the sale is taxed.

What's your problem with Jeff Bezos, again?
This is exactly what I'm wondering. Not only reiteration of all of the above, but the fact that he is a 17% holder in a corporation (approximately) and must answer to the remaining 83% shareholders who have no problem and actually tacitly support his current management tactics. Who is more to blame? The 17% owner that, as CEO, has caused the value of the corporation to skyrocket? Or the other owners who allow this to be the status quo because they are making money hand over fist when they could easily get him out for "unethical" practices if they so chose?

This is leaving out the whole idea of a corporation which is to maximize profits for shareholders. I think Amazon is doing pretty well in that regard. And to forego other arguments, if anyone can point to any malfeasance by Bezos personally, I'd be happy to hear it. But I don't see any bad acting on his part as a CEO or owner Amazon.
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Old 9th August 2018, 01:33 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What's your problem with Jeff Bezos, again?
I don't have one.

I can see how some people may be concerned about the concentration of wealth that he represents, but that has nothing to do with him personally.

I can see how some people may not like how his company and others outsource lots of their labor to third parties who treat their employees like crap, but again that has little to do with him personally.

I can see how people don't like the way major corporations work very hard to maintain low tax payments any legal way possible, but again that has little to do with him personally.

All of these problems seem seem like problems directly related to politics, not Jeff Bezos. What, is he supposed to spend more even though his lawyers and advisers are saying that he is spending all that he is legally required to? That seems like a setup for shareholder litigation.
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Old 9th August 2018, 04:16 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Stock sales are taxed.


Gains from capital investment are taxed.


Real property is taxed.


Revenues from the Post's business are taxed. Capital gains from investment in the Post and by the Post are taxed. Income he receives from the Post is taxed.


Gains from investing borrowed funds are taxed.


On the other hand, whatever benefits he realizes, whether income or capital gains, are taxed. And of course if he does sell shares, the sale is taxed.

What's your problem with Jeff Bezos, again?
But capital gains are not taxed until the asset gets sold. Haven't you ever sold a house? OOps, that gets rolled over to the next house, as long as you buy within ummm a year. Two? So Bezo's capital gains taxes may not yet be paid by his great great great great grand children.

You do realize that it is special interests that right the tax laws don't you? Like Wall Street and landowners...

That is why I say lets go to a property tax, payable NOW.
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Old 9th August 2018, 05:55 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Stock sales are taxed.


Gains from capital investment are taxed.


Real property is taxed.


Revenues from the Post's business are taxed. Capital gains from investment in the Post and by the Post are taxed. Income he receives from the Post is taxed.


Gains from investing borrowed funds are taxed.


On the other hand, whatever benefits he realizes, whether income or capital gains, are taxed. And of course if he does sell shares, the sale is taxed.

What's your problem with Jeff Bezos, again?
There is a problem with legal tax avoidance - methods which are perfectly legal but allow large companies to avoid paying tax. I'd be surprised if you aren't already aware that many of the biggest global companies pay zero or near-zero in tax. These tax avoidance loopholes need to be closed, but they won't be while the people who make the laws directly benefit from them.
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Old 9th August 2018, 06:48 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by casebro View Post
But capital gains are not taxed until the asset gets sold.
So?

Quote:
Haven't you ever sold a house?
Yes.

Quote:
OOps, that gets rolled over to the next house, as long as you buy within ummm a year. Two?
No "oops" about it. Only your primary residence rolls over like that. As long as it's your home, you're fine. The moment you turn it into an investment, either by selling it and pocketing the cash (instead of rolling it over into a new home for yourself), or by buying it as an investment (e.g., a second property that you plan to rent out, flip, etc.), you are looking at capital gains. I think this is entirely sensible.

Quote:
So Bezo's capital gains taxes may not yet be paid by his great great great great grand children.
So? It doesn't really make sense to tax capital gains until someone actually gains from them. And the exemption for primary residences seems like an obvious good idea.

Quote:
You do realize that it is special interests that right the tax laws don't you? Like Wall Street and landowners...
Wave your hands more. I'm not scared yet.

Quote:
That is why I say lets go to a property tax, payable NOW.
Property tax is different from capital gains tax. Every property I've ever owned, I've paid a tax bill annually.

Seriously, dude, what is your problem?
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Old 9th August 2018, 06:49 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
There is a problem with legal tax avoidance - methods which are perfectly legal but allow large companies to avoid paying tax. I'd be surprised if you aren't already aware that many of the biggest global companies pay zero or near-zero in tax. These tax avoidance loopholes need to be closed, but they won't be while the people who make the laws directly benefit from them.
The post you're replying to, like the post it's replying to, aren't talking about companies, they're talking about Jeff Bezos personally.
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Old 9th August 2018, 07:17 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
The post you're replying to, like the post it's replying to, aren't talking about companies, they're talking about Jeff Bezos personally.
Immaterial. Similar legal loopholes apply to ultra-rich individuals.
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Old 9th August 2018, 07:36 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
Immaterial. Similar legal loopholes apply to ultra-rich individuals.
How is referring to corporate tax loopholes supposed to reply to comments about personal taxes?

What "similar" legal loopholes is Jeff Bezos personally exploiting? The one where he pays taxes income from stock sales? The one where he pays taxes on property he owns? The one where he pays taxes on capital gains he realizes?

If you're trying to make a claim about Bezos's personal tax avoidance, vague references to corporate tax loopholes don't suffice. If you're trying to make a point about personal tax avoidance, vague references to corporate tax loopholes also don't suffice.

Are you going to develop these references into something about Bezos's personal tax strategy, or was the plan for me to say "oh, right, corporate tax loopholes, Bezos must not be paying any personal tax either!"?
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Old 9th August 2018, 07:47 PM   #80
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I'm not a tax accountant. Don't ask for details from me. But it is pretty common knowledge that the hyper-rich don't pay a fair share of taxes. Take that however you will. Ignore it if you like. I don't care.
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