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Tags Amazon.com , Jeff Bezos , tax issues

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Old 9th August 2018, 08:08 PM   #81
Mycroft
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
What's your problem with Jeff Bezos, again?
It's Seattle headquarters doesn't pay enough taxes to support the infrastructure it requires.

They pay their warehouse workers like $13.50 an hour for really hard work. That kind of work should earn better pay.

Basically the same complaints people have about all corporations.
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Old 9th August 2018, 11:53 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
It's Seattle headquarters doesn't pay enough taxes to support the infrastructure it requires.

They pay their warehouse workers like $13.50 an hour for really hard work. That kind of work should earn better pay.

Basically the same complaints people have about all corporations.
The typical pay rate for a WalMart overnight stocker is $10 per hour, the hourly rate for an Asda employee is £8.50. WalMart owns Asda and I would say that stocking shelves must be a similar job to picking orders yet we see that Bezos, the monster, is paying better than them or at a commensurate rate for, ostensibly, the same job.

I’ve never done either job and because of that I’d like you to tell me more about how “really hard” it is to pick items from a shelf. Maybe I’m missing something.

Last edited by bluesjnr; 9th August 2018 at 11:54 PM.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:23 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
It's Seattle headquarters doesn't pay enough taxes to support the infrastructure it requires.

They pay their warehouse workers like $13.50 an hour for really hard work. That kind of work should earn better pay.

Basically the same complaints people have about all corporations.
To reiterate what, I believe, theprestige was saying....

Jeff Bezos is not Amazon or a corporation. What is your problem with Jeff, personally?
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:29 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
It's Seattle headquarters doesn't pay enough taxes to support the infrastructure it requires.

They pay their warehouse workers like $13.50 an hour for really hard work. That kind of work should earn better pay.

Basically the same complaints people have about all corporations.
in a sense they are being charitable to those workers. Amazon is giving them the best option out of all the options that were available to that individual worker. No one else offered them better than Amazon. How do I know this? Because the worker took the job.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:30 AM   #85
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
To reiterate what, I believe, theprestige was saying....

Jeff Bezos is not Amazon or a corporation. What is your problem with Jeff, personally?
Thanks, yes. And to be clear, I understand having a problem with Jeff Bezos as the guy who decides how Amazon behaves.

But someone brought up the subject of his personal wealth for some reason, in the context of a discussion of his objectionable corporate tax strategy.
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Old 10th August 2018, 07:47 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
Waiting for your to provide the evidence that GlassDoor.com is a representative statistical average of all Amazon employess, and not a self-selected group of upper-level employees who have better working conditions than the rank and file. Oh, and BTW, Amazon (and many other employers) "strongly encourage" their employees to rate them on GlassDoor to counteract the negative reviews.

Until that happens, and given what I know about GlassDoor and the way it gets used by employers (from personal experience), I'll take that with a huge grain of salt.
You can filter by job type.
Warehouse is still 3.1
Part time is 3.4

Quote:
Oh, and BTW, Amazon (and many other employers) "strongly encourage" their employees to rate them on GlassDoor to counteract the negative reviews.
But it is pretty hard to do that when there are a lot of reviews.
I have been asked at my place of employment but there are only 20 reviews.
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Old 10th August 2018, 08:07 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
To reiterate what, I believe, theprestige was saying....

Jeff Bezos is not Amazon or a corporation. What is your problem with Jeff, personally?

That he created and for most of its existence drove the polices that defined the corporate practice and culture. Bezos, for a very long time, was in fact Amazon, he was the founder, he was the one who developed it and made it what it is, and he was the one who continued to set the tone for well after I quit working there. He is directly responsible for what it is, and he made his billions because of what he made the corporation.
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Old 10th August 2018, 09:04 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by luchog View Post
That he created and for most of its existence drove the polices that defined the corporate practice and culture. Bezos, for a very long time, was in fact Amazon, he was the founder, he was the one who developed it and made it what it is, and he was the one who continued to set the tone for well after I quit working there. He is directly responsible for what it is, and he made his billions because of what he made the corporation.
Not saying I agree with the assessment, but OK. But that cat is out of the bag. There's no fixing that at this point. Now he answers to all the shareholders who are attempting to maximize profits, correct? Let's say the majority of them want to enact change inside of Amazon to make wages/policies/societal involvement more "friendly" and less profit-driven. Couldn't they do so? He is not even close to a majority shareholder.

But they haven't. I think we all know why. To act like the fact that they haven't is surprising is ludicrous. These people are giving him an unspoken mandate to continue to maximize profits...which, as I see it, is the whole point of any corporation. Jeff is not personally responsible for that. He may be the figurehead and the force behind the immense increase in value for the corporation, but it is not within his power to do something that the vast majority of shareholders do not want. I think he is doing exactly what he has been doing for so long because THEY WANT HIM TO. And until that changes, everyone can stop blaming Jeff Bezos personally for his actions. Hell, he could step down tomorrow and the next figurehead appointed by the shareholders would be foolish to begin doing anything different than he has in the past, as evidenced by the continued dominance of Amazon.
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Old 10th August 2018, 09:32 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by bluesjnr View Post
Iíve never done either job and because of that Iíd like you to tell me more about how ďreally hardĒ it is to pick items from a shelf. Maybe Iím missing something.
What you're missing is the obvious; that any job can be taxing with an acceleration of pace and volume even if the fundamentals are simple. This is so obvious that your failure to understand comes across as disingenuous.
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Old 10th August 2018, 09:33 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
To reiterate what, I believe, theprestige was saying....

Jeff Bezos is not Amazon or a corporation. What is your problem with Jeff, personally?
Wut?

Nowhere di I say I have any problem with Bezos personally. Do try to follow.
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Old 10th August 2018, 09:41 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
in a sense they are being charitable to those workers. Amazon is giving them the best option out of all the options that were available to that individual worker. No one else offered them better than Amazon. How do I know this? Because the worker took the job.
Yes, a free market article of faith. But does the real world always work that way? Do you think every worker always has the best job available?
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Old 10th August 2018, 09:41 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Mycroft View Post
Wut?

Nowhere di I say I have any problem with Bezos personally. Do try to follow.
*Looks at thread title and initial post quoting his PERSONAL wealth, then back again at the above quote*

WUT?
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Old 10th August 2018, 10:03 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
*Looks at thread title and initial post quoting his PERSONAL wealth, then back again at the above quote*

WUT?
I did not start this thread nor did I choose it's title.
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Old 10th August 2018, 10:08 AM   #94
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So you are choosing to post off-topic...

Gotcha.
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Old 12th August 2018, 05:14 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post

Did you actually buy into that obvious lie?!! Karl Marx wouldn't dream of saying a stupid thing like that. (And by the way, his best and most loyal friend was a capitalist!
Quote invenstigator: "The Capitalists Will Sell Us the Rope with Which We Will Hang Them"

Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
It's an old Marxist custom....

No, it isn't, and it never was.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 12th August 2018 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 12th August 2018, 08:27 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Did you actually buy into that obvious lie?!! Karl Marx wouldn't dream of saying a stupid thing like that.
How would you know what Marx would dream or not dream of saying? But yeah, sounds exactly like something he might've said to me. Marx was no flowery hippie you know, when push comes to shove he was perfectly capable of saying things like that.
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Old 12th August 2018, 08:43 AM   #97
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Can we agree that, in American society, money buys political influence? Of course we can. Then having political influence concentrated in the hands of a few ultra-wealthy people is a problem.
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Old 12th August 2018, 09:45 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
How would you know what Marx would dream or not dream of saying? But yeah, sounds exactly like something he might've said to me. Marx was no flowery hippie you know, when push comes to shove he was perfectly capable of saying things like that.

No, he wasn't, not in the real world. Apparently you never really read any Marx so you should be aware that there are an awful lot of false quotations attributed to him. The one about the capitalists and the rope, however, is usually attributed to Lenin, but he also never wrote (or said) it.
You also didn't bother to read the Quote Investigator link, apparently:


Quote:
Lenin wrote, “When it comes time to hang the capitalists, they will vie with each other for the rope contract.”
—Major George Racey Jordan

Jordan was a U.S. military officer who became a fierce anti-communist. Lenin had died in 1924; hence, the 1955 date was quite late. No documentary source was specified, and multiple researchers have been unable to find a match in Lenin’s writings.
https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/02/22/rope/

That you willingly spread the lies of anti-communists makes me wonder what your intentions are.


ETA: This is another one, this time from Reddit: Did anyone actually say "the capitalists will sell us the rope we hang them with"?
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 12th August 2018 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 12th August 2018, 10:46 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Stock sales are taxed.


Gains from capital investment are taxed.


Real property is taxed.


Revenues from the Post's business are taxed. Capital gains from investment in the Post and by the Post are taxed. Income he receives from the Post is taxed.


Gains from investing borrowed funds are taxed.


On the other hand, whatever benefits he realizes, whether income or capital gains, are taxed. And of course if he does sell shares, the sale is taxed.

What's your problem with Jeff Bezos, again?
That's a very naive idea of his ownership of his many assets, they are owned via a myriad of legal entities to (legally) minimise his tax liabilities.
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Old 12th August 2018, 10:51 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
That's a very naive idea of his ownership of his many assets, they are owned via a myriad of legal entities to (legally) minimise his tax liabilities.
For each of the items I talk about in the post you quoted, please name the legal entities that own that item, and how that ownership works to minimize his personal tax liability. Thanks in advance.
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Old 12th August 2018, 10:54 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No, he wasn't, not in the real world. Apparently you never really read any Marx so you should be aware that there are an awful lot of false quotations attributed to him.
Apparently you never really read any Marx other than his main books, so you should be aware that he was indeed quite capable of being polemic.

Quote:
That you willingly spread the lies of anti-communists makes me wonder what your intentions are.
A ridiculous accusation, please share how you have determined whether I quoted it to "willingly spread the lies of anti-communists."
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Old 12th August 2018, 11:02 AM   #102
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Did I claim that Marx wasn't capable of being polemic? What I wrote was that he wasn't stupid!
You actually are spreading the lies of anti-communists! Are you saying that you don't do it deliberately?


ETA There's a lot of this **** on the internet!
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 12th August 2018, 11:03 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
For each of the items I talk about in the post you quoted, please name the legal entities that own that item, and how that ownership works to minimize his personal tax liability. Thanks in advance.
When you demonstrate the facts behind your initial claims of his tax situation I'll consider linking to the many on line reports of how his wealth is structured....
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Old 12th August 2018, 11:04 AM   #104
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Marx was stupid, though.
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Old 12th August 2018, 11:11 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Did I claim that Marx wasn't capable of being polemic? What I wrote was that he wasn't stupid!
What you said was that he would never even dream of saying that.

Quote:
You actually are spreading the lies of anti-communists! Are you saying that you don't do it deliberately?
I hadn't verified the quote because I assumed it probably came from one of the sarcastic and/or polemic bits littered throughout his minor articles and private correspondence.

The question isn't whether the quote can be traced to him, you've already shown that it can't, but whether he would have said something like that. I'm still with yes on that one, more in a sarcastic or polemic fashion that an actual reasoned proposal, but I can definitely imagine him say it.
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Old 12th August 2018, 11:11 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Marx was stupid, though.

No, he wasn't. Your post is, however.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th August 2018, 11:18 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
... but I can definitely imagine him say it.

So can all the anti-communists, apparently, but the weird thing is that they need to invent stuff like that! They wouldn't have to do so if they could find it in his actual writing.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 12th August 2018, 11:25 AM   #108
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My Amazon prime package has not even shipped yet! And I ordered it 6 days ago! Clearly Jeff must step down!
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Old 12th August 2018, 08:39 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by Crawtator View Post
*Looks at thread title and initial post quoting his PERSONAL wealth, then back again at the above quote*

WUT?
I think it's pretty obvious that his personal wealth and his company's wealth are tightly interconnected.
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Old 13th August 2018, 06:27 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
So can all the anti-communists, apparently, but the weird thing is that they need to invent stuff like that! They wouldn't have to do so if they could find it in his actual writing.
Some inventions are more believable than others. Many of them are obviously inventions, such as that "Revolutionary Holocaust where the weak must make way" one, even if we crank up the sarcasm and polemics on Marxist philosophy we'd never get anywhere close to that. But the rope one isn't all that unbelievable, if we crank up the sarcasm and polemics then that's something he may very well have said sometime.
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Old 13th August 2018, 12:46 PM   #111
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Now that you know that it's concocted by an anti-communist (and now has been distributed all over the internet attributed to Marx by other anti-communists), consider the intention:
They're trying to convince capitalists that the Marxist revolution intends to kill them, warning them that they should under no circumstances do business with Marxists. If they do, they're suicidal.
Your readiness to buy into the lie, i.e. to believe that this is a Marxist (or Leninist) idea, isn't due to Marxist polemics. It's due to your own bias, which becomes apparent in your sig line about devastation, destruction and annihilation.
Marx (and Lenin) wanted to do away with capitalism because of the way it affected working and unemployed people's lives, whereas you seem to dream primarily of revenge and misinterpret Marx accordingly.
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 13th August 2018, 01:42 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I think it's pretty obvious that his personal wealth and his company's wealth are tightly interconnected.
What does that even mean? It's not like his personal wealth is so tightly connected to Amazon that it gets taxed as if it were Amazon's wealth - nor could it be, really.

Bezos's taxable wealth comes from the sale of stock he owns. The value of the stock is connected to the value of his company, but I don't think of that as a "tight interconnection". And possibly (I don't know for sure) from income he receives from the company for work he does for the company. This is essentially the same as any other employee. Again, not what I would consider a tight interconnection.

And there doesn't seem to be any connection at all between the tax strategy of Amazon and the tax strategy of Jeff Bezos personally. It's not clear to me what discussion of Bezos's personal tax strategy actually has to do with the topic.
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Old 13th August 2018, 01:56 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
...It's not clear to me what discussion of Bezos's personal tax strategy actually has to do with the topic.
TBF, the topic of Karl Marx has managed to strongarm its way into the discussion so ...

"Jeff Bezos's personal tax strategy ...

Come on down!"

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Old 14th August 2018, 07:40 AM   #114
caveman1917
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
Now that you know that it's concocted by an anti-communist (and now has been distributed all over the internet attributed to Marx by other anti-communists), consider the intention:
They're trying to convince capitalists that the Marxist revolution intends to kill them, warning them that they should under no circumstances do business with Marxists. If they do, they're suicidal.
Your readiness to buy into the lie, i.e. to believe that this is a Marxist (or Leninist) idea, isn't due to Marxist polemics. It's due to your own bias, which becomes apparent in your sig line about devastation, destruction and annihilation.
Marx (and Lenin) wanted to do away with capitalism because of the way it affected working and unemployed people's lives, whereas you seem to dream primarily of revenge and misinterpret Marx accordingly.
You seem to dream primarily of "doing business with" the bourgeoisie. Tell me, what kind of anti-capitalist revolutionary (whether it be Marx, Lenin, Parsons or Bakunin - since you felt the need to bring my sig line into it) gets his panties in a knot over the thought that the bourgeoisie might not "do business with" them? If you think Marxism is a way of doing business with the bourgeoisie then I'd posit you are the one misinterpreting Marx according with your own bias.

ETA: Since you seem so concerned with anti-communist inventions of fake quotes and brought my sig line into it. Here's a fake quote the Chicago Tribune attributed to Lucy Parsons:
Originally Posted by Parsons
Let every dirty, lousy tramp arm himself with a revolver or a knife, and lay in wait on the steps of the palaces of the rich and stab or shoot the owners as they come out. Let us kill them without mercy, and let it be a war of extermination.
You know what the response of Parsons and the other anarchists was when this fake quote was attributed to her? They owned it, recuperated it and started using it as if true. A bit like how gay people recuperate the term faggot. You know what they didn't do? Get all upset that it would make their position unappealing to the bourgeoisie who might not "do business with them" anymore.
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"Ideas are also weapons." - Subcomandante Marcos
"We must devastate the avenues where the wealthy live." - Lucy Parsons
"Let us therefore trust the eternal Spirit which destroys and annihilates only because it is the unfathomable and eternal source of all life. The passion for destruction is a creative passion, too!" - Mikhail Bakunin

Last edited by caveman1917; 14th August 2018 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 14th August 2018, 12:02 PM   #115
kellyb
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Stop fighting, comrades.

Hopefully we all agree that the states should "internationalize" Amazon and seize most of Jeff's assets for redistribution, at least?
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Old 14th August 2018, 12:06 PM   #116
Myriad
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Stop fighting, comrades.

Hopefully we all agree that the states should "internationalize" Amazon and seize most of Jeff's assets for redistribution, at least?

A living minimum wage law is the same thing as that, I suppose.
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Old 14th August 2018, 12:09 PM   #117
kellyb
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Originally Posted by Myriad View Post
A living minimum wage law is the same thing as that, I suppose.
Works for me, but I wasn't really joking about also taking most of his assets/wealth. Money is power, and that is far too much for any one person to have.
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Old 14th August 2018, 12:24 PM   #118
Venom
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What an entertaining third page.
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Old 14th August 2018, 06:23 PM   #119
HarryHenderson
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Marxism....and this is not a new observatation...works a lot like a religion.
Infallible source of all wisdom, blind obedience to dogma a virtue,violent persecution of non beleivers and heretics,and a willingness to indulge in mass slaughter because God..or in this case The Party..tells you it is necessary.
When I first read this I just laughed a little (internally) and thought surely there can't be anyone on this quasi-mature, well seasoned and mostly savvy though left leaning forum who thinks Marx was right about much more than what goes up must come down, and then just a few posts later...

Originally Posted by dann View Post
Did I claim that Marx wasn't capable of being polemic? What I wrote was that he wasn't stupid!...
I'm always amazed at the people who genuinely think Marx was on to something. And "not stupid" is only one opinion. Regardless, consider yourself amazing.

Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'm not a tax accountant. Don't ask for details from me. But it is pretty common knowledge that the hyper-rich don't pay a fair share of taxes. Take that however you will. Ignore it if you like. I don't care.
The sky must be falling because I agree with you even though you're not a tax accountant arthwollipot. Through many 'legitimate' government acts intended solely to protect their seeming insatiable greed, the ultra wealthy have been allowed by law to pay less than their proper share in taxes.

[Judge Bjorn Bjork] "What's that, you have so much cash Mr. Bezos that simply counting it has turned into a cost overrun logistical nightmare and therefore you can't afford to pay much of it in taxes or you'll go broke? Well okay, but just this one time. Until you get back on your feet. Next!"

Originally Posted by Elagabalus View Post
TBF, the topic of Karl Marx has managed to strongarm its way into the discussion so ...

"Jeff Bezos's personal tax strategy ...

Come on down!"
Jeff Bezo's personal tax strategy was born a poor...ly spelled note his accountant had written to him about that strategy. It said simply "SELL! SELL! S3LL!" And that's what he did, starting with copies of the book 'How To Sell Anything To Anyone With A Dial Tone'. He then used that money to buy a big river somewhere and the rest is history. He files a basic 1040 EZ every year and always deducts for his service iguana Rufus. He leads a very simple life and will spend all that other ultra cash later after he's dead and has eternity to finally enjoy it.
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Old 15th August 2018, 07:19 AM   #120
eeyore1954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arthwollipot View Post
I'm not a tax accountant. Don't ask for details from me. But it is pretty common knowledge that the hyper-rich don't pay a fair share of taxes. Take that however you will. Ignore it if you like. I don't care.
Originally Posted by HarryHenderson View Post
The sky must be falling because I agree with you even though you're not a tax accountant arthwollipot. Through many 'legitimate' government acts intended solely to protect their seeming insatiable greed, the ultra wealthy have been allowed by law to pay less than their proper share in taxes.
Depends upon what you consider to be a fair share.

The top .1% do typically pay the highest rate.
https://taxfoundation.org/summary-la...a-2016-update/
Table 8. 27.67%

Or The top 1 percent paid a greater share of individual income taxes (39.5 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (29.1 percent).
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