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Old 9th August 2018, 04:28 PM   #41
dudalb
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Originally Posted by rlopez2 View Post
I see "the good" (to call it something) in the latest news about Alex Jones.

Not only have the media conglomerate put themselves in the position of defining what is "hate speech" (which not only is undefinable syntactically and semantically, but it should be part of one's own private business), but I think they are making a crass political mistake.

They will be not only discrediting themselves even more and reducing their customer base in number and kind, but their decision is silly because, technically speaking, Alex Jones can go ahead and start his own site (that is cheap and easy). Then, what would come next? Are they pushing USG to take it from there? Will USG then officially and openly become thought police? Would that not only be unconstitutional (well, whatever is left of that sacrosanct Constitution), but "unAmerican"?

I very much doubt USG has the brains and spine to heed some sort of

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_...m_Prohibitorum

to the chapter, page and paragraph as the Catholic Church did for 10 centuries (which, incidentally, was very industrious to business after the invention of the printing press). In those times they didn't have such things as cell phones, the NSA and FISA courts. So, they actually had to read and think about what all kinds of stuff "heretic minds" were writing about (including Giordano Bruno's and Galileo's preposterous ideas about the earth being round). The officers of the Index even gave them the right to legally and openly defend their points. Galileo's case was extreme because he was vertically making fun of the status quo in ways no one had ever dared and the Catholic Church in those times was politically stronger than USG has ever been. Of course, the NSA does the technical work for them, but it would really be a funny show if they actually start persecuting people for such things as "hate speech".

Alex Jones is some character:

https://www.infowars.com/about-alex-jones/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Jones

https://www.theonion.com/search?q=alex%20jones

and, of course, not all he talks about are "conspiracy theories". If you spend decades freely talking about all kinds of stuff relating, among many other things, to covert and disinformation operations by USG you will, statistically speaking, say a few things that will be more than half way off, like what he was saying about the Sandy Hook school, fake Moon landings and that pizza parlor in Washington DC serving as front for a child abuse business and of the millions of users and fans he has there will always be some who would take what he says too seriously.

But here is the thing, doesn't USG use the media and all kinds of actors, including "celebrities"?, don't they deceive people in all kinds of ways people can’t even begin to imagine? Are those folks in Washington DC so morally pure? Is child and all kinds of crass abuse really unheard of by USG?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Plutonium_Files

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_a...ss_destruction

and the most important aspect would be: would the U.S. media touch any of those issues with a 10 foot pole? I mean even the NY Times would not explicitly mention his name while vaguely talking about Snowden’s revelations and that is definitely effective:

// __ Government Surveillance: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M
~
What I think is really happening here is the reaction of the media who are losing ground in irreversible ways. I think one of the reasons why people chose Trump is because they have been conditioned to hate U.S. media. Gringos say to the British: "don't judge us based on our media and we won't judge you based on your royalty", but actually those are not such irrational ways of judging one another. I had always heard that lies are tools, then I discovered in the US lies are actually industries.

The most interesting thing is how will USG bring about and enforce laws and regulations relating to their role as thought police when they can't even keep up with all that "Vladimir Putin" nonsense?

Ben Shapiro, not exactly an Alex Jones enthusiast himself, was giving a good example of why such things as "hate speech", which are essentially interpretative, you can't realistically codify and enforce, as moralistically self-righteous as you think yourself as being. He uses the example of he, himself, not saying to someone who biologically is a man and wants for other people to believe he is a woman and, among many other things force people's language usage. He asks: will they tell me that is "hate speech" and even possibly prosecute me for that? Even if you cut your pennies, balls, inject whatever to look like you got some boobs, ... want to be called "she", "legally" change your name, ... you are still a man who cut his pennies, balls, ...

I have worked for a shelter in Harlem, NYC. At times women (actual women should I say) come to us asking for shelter and we can't take them in even during a gelid winter night even though we have had beds. I don't like to do that (I was raised by a single mother), but, "per regulations", I have to. They tell us to give them a sheet with addresses of shelters for women in NYC. Now, I have nothing against that particular person I am using that case as a concrete example of what Shapiro is talking about. That could be seen as "hate", not PR, not quite kosher speech: there is a man there cross-dressing and acting as if he was a woman (which to me, even though very weird, I rationally see it is basically a mild and unimportant kind of delusion, probably a mental illness). He wants to be called "she" and even go by a girl’s name. Now, why doesn't "she" then go to a shelter for women? I have wondered about it, but I guess this very basic question could be deemed "inappropriate", "hateful", . . . when to me it is entirely appropriate, very basic and just. In one of my previous posts I asked a very simple question: "why doesn’t USG ‘freedom-love’ China?" Now, even though I am talking about "love" as USG does (yes, in my case, sarcastically), they could say and have said, that I am really talking about "hate" ...

Let me repeat and in no ambiguous terms that, as Shapiro, I really don’t give a **** about what people do with their very rear ends, it is theirs after all; but when we start calling a man a woman, a tree a bird, a gun some flowers, ... we won’t ever be able to solve any actual issues and politicians will be the only ones profitably exploiting that game.
Holy Wall Of Text, Batman!
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Old 9th August 2018, 04:36 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I think the OPs post is all over the place and incoherent. .
That par for the course with this poster.....
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Old 9th August 2018, 04:52 PM   #43
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ALEX JONES HAS BEEN TAKEN OFF THE INTERWEBS AND SILENCED! OUTRAGE!!! FIRST AMENDMENT!!1! ILLUMINATI!! BILDERBURGS!!!

Oh, no...wait...

No, he hasn't been silenced after all. Seems he sneaked back in via...his own existing, untouched website!

LOL

https://www.infowars.com/
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Old 9th August 2018, 04:59 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
I would argue that since they own the server, it is also property rights in the case under discussion.
If they pay for the hard drive space, they can damn well control what goes on it...seems simple to me.
It's amusing seeing all these "conservatives" embracing and defending Alex Jones,since sliming conservatives was Alex's stock in trade during the Dubya years Guy will twist to the left or the right depedingd on where he thinks the suckers are.....
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Old 9th August 2018, 05:07 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by rlopez2 View Post
RE: The USG has nothing to do with any of this.

This is joke, right? At least make your sarcasm a little plain, because there are many people who think like that. Some people actually believe O'Reilly was removed as one of the most followed U.S. prestitudes for looking at a co-worker's butt.

Actually, most people understand clearly that the USG has nothing to do with it. If you'd like to present any sort of evidence at all to the contrary, now is the time to do so. Proclaiming "yeah-huh!" doesn't cut it.
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Old 9th August 2018, 05:10 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
I think I saw a tweet where someone tried to discredit all of the "Facebook is a private company and can make whatever rules it wants" arguments by "revealing" the fact that Facebook is publicly traded. The tweet had quite a self-satisfied tone to it, but of course it went over about as well as you might expect.
If I were a shareholder in FB, (I don't think I am unless indirectly through an index fund), I'd be pissed if they hosted content that kept users away.
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Old 9th August 2018, 05:23 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
We may need a revision of the radio and TV broadcasters Equal-time rule or some similar rule to stop the large new media companies from unfairly discriminating against the candidate(s) they don't like.
No we don't.
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Old 9th August 2018, 05:27 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by LSSBB View Post
No we don't.
The Equal Time Rule might have made some sense in an age when you had a limited number of channels and standard broadcasting was the only game in town, but in an age of social media and satellite broadcasting with limitless channels it does not make sense. Fox News is balanced by MSNBC,
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Old 9th August 2018, 06:44 PM   #49
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I think there should be an (international) organization setup that assigns a star rating to particular news outlets in a similar way that financial institutions get AAA ratings.

They loose their rating score the more unverified facts (lies) they publish. Then all media outlooks like facebook would publish this rating along with content to provide a level of trustworthiness.

Seems like it would be difficult to administer and regulate. But perhaps the rating could be assigned based partly on users contributions - a bit like Wikipedia.

You could even set facebook personal settings to not see news stories from a source below a 3 star rating. There must be a way for the internet to regulate itself, and also keep freedom of speech.
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Old 9th August 2018, 06:59 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
We may need a revision of the radio and TV broadcasters Equal-time rule or some similar rule to stop the large new media companies from unfairly discriminating against the candidate(s) they don't like.

It would have to be one heck of a revision. The original was predicated on the (somewhat shaky) premise that the government owned the airwaves. In order to rent a bandwidth from them, the radio or TV station had to agree to abide by FCC regulation and other laws.

But we now have a forty year history of cables, satellites, towers, fiber optics, etc. that have never been thought to be "owned" by the feds. It'd take some doing to get them under that sort of government control.

And seeing as how the current administration dismantled net neutrality, I don't believe that the fed is going to change its mind now.
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Old 9th August 2018, 07:36 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
There is no first amendment issue involved, but that doesn't mean that there is no free speech issue involved. Free speech is a larger concept than just the first amendment.
Thank for bringing that up. I accept that the government can't curtail freedom of speech because it says so in the constitution, and I accept that I have no right to prevent anyone from exercising their right to free speech in a public arena. But doesn't mean I have to accept it in my own home. If anyone starts saying things I don't like at my place then I will exercise my right to tell them to stop it or get kicked off the property.

Yes, this is a 'free speech' issue - the issue being that free speech shouldn't be a universal right that trumps the right of others to have a private space where they don't have to hear it.

Quote:
...free speech conflicts with property rights, and property rights justifiably win. And you can argue that freedom of association should win here.
You could argue it, but you would be wrong. There should not be any 'freedom to associate' on private property against the owner's wishes.

Originally Posted by LSSBB
Yeah, it's a free speech issue when they wipe graffiti off their railroad cars too!
Somebody spray-painted a rude word over the front of my house. So guess whose free speech rights were trampled on? mine! when the City 'suggested' that I remove it. I should have the right to decide what speech I allow on my property - not the government.
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Old 9th August 2018, 10:08 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by gregthehammer View Post
first, they went after Alex Jones, and I said nothing.
Then, they came for ...
then...
Then they came for me

??
Well, I'll put aside for the moment the distinction between "government" and "private business" to make another point.

Alex Jones is really closer to Goebbels than any group listed in the poem. You know, the intolerant, violence-formenting conspiracy peddler that has the favor of the also intolerant government authority, and that the poem was warning you would wreak havoc if allowed to run wild. The guy's even a pretty obvious antisemite.

The list of victims this time are shooting victims and their families, Hispanic and black people, trans people, all of whom risk getting banned from these platforms by false reports from hate mobs, and have for years, and on rare occasions are actually imprisoned by the actual real world government for what they say online. And lots of people have noted that, while people like "@ki1488kekiller" are apparently free to post holocaust denial on Twitter while having an avatar of Pepe the frog with swastikas for eyes, but replying that he's a "knucklehead" will get you banned for a day.

So I can't really get too worried about "whose next", but I do kinda hope it's Stephan Molyneaux.

Now, getting back to the central point, I suppose that one could argue that, if these sites are so important, they should be governed as public utilities rather than as private companies whose actions have little to no importance (no, crescent, you are not overthinking it at all as far as this goes) - but first, as we see every so often, this won't solve every problem, and second, that's not what they are at the moment in any case.
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Old 10th August 2018, 01:21 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by rlopez2 View Post
RE: ... as long as they do so consistently, then failing to abide by those standards can and often will have your service terminated

That is exactly my point how can you do that "consistently"? Explain to me philosophically or specifically if you want. To me it is like saying you can codify what truth be. How on earth can we mere mortal do that?
Because we determine where the line is and then follow that. Say someone says that "all Jews are traitors to the human race and deserve death" on my platform, I can say, that's hate speech, and ban them because it's my platform. In the same way, if I am being consistent, then anyone that says "all Whites are traitors to the human race and deserve death" would be banned too.

The fact is though, if you agree to the ToS for my platform to use it, and I decide you have breached the ToS, I can ban you. That's how the private world works. It's like if you are in my living room and say something I don't like, I can kick your butt out the front door and slam it in your face. That's my right, and in the private world, that right trumps your right to say whatever you like.

[Edited to Add] Take this board for an example, we are here at the board staff's tolerance. If they determine if we have broken the User Agreement (the ToS) and they determine the punishment for doing so. If they decide to ban us, they can. We hope that they do as consistently as possible, but in reality, it's entirely up to the staff to determine if our actions require discipline, be it a warning, a suspension, or a ban, and it's totally their right as the board staff to do that, and that right outweighs and overwrites your right to say whatever you want on this board.
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Old 10th August 2018, 03:11 AM   #54
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RE: Um ... Do you have any evidence that the federal government actually was involved in banning Jones from FB and YouTube?

What I mean is that they are one and the same thing anyway. In the 90's (after the technological and societal adoption of the Internet) "we the people" stopped being the ones being offered products and services and became the products and services to be offered. Both business and politicians benefit from that. In fact, what I see as one of the greatest maladies of our times (down to every single individual: social control to the point that they have been playing God (well, not that smartly, anyway)), was actually suggested by business (U.S. IT companies) to the NSA. It was from them the NSA "saw the light" under which they see everything now, from where they got their: "collect it all ... " (both content and metadata) incantation.

business, politics and akademia have become one and the same thing in the U.S. just look at the board of those institutions and you will see they are all CIA, FBI, ... it didn't use to be that way. That is a falsifiable trend anyone can check. Why does Coca-Cola care about PETA activists? Why is amazon involved in widespread none consensual experimentation of the homeless population in Seattle? ...

Also, the FBI, CIA, ... are not the kinds of folks that would do things in the open anyway. They consider acting in covert ways as being smart

RE: I don't know of any. The last time I looked, the chief executive of the US was a big Alex Jones fan.

Yes, they are friends and they are kind of like, but Trump is not really the kind of politician that the status quo likes and wants, so their friendship is partially why I think they targeted Jones.
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Old 10th August 2018, 03:18 AM   #55
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RE: No, he hasn't been silenced after all. Seems he sneaked back in via...his own existing, untouched website!

Well, yes, this is part of what I meant when I said that was silly and counterproductive on a number of important counts, so, let’s see what happens next.

The net neutrality thing has become an issue. Are they using Alex Jones as circus monkey for their show? What they did to him I found so stupid, that I can’t help but think it is part of a wider plan.
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Old 10th August 2018, 03:25 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
It would have to be one heck of a revision. The original was predicated on the (somewhat shaky) premise that the government owned the airwaves. In order to rent a bandwidth from them, the radio or TV station had to agree to abide by FCC regulation and other laws.

But we now have a forty year history of cables, satellites, towers, fiber optics, etc. that have never been thought to be "owned" by the feds. It'd take some doing to get them under that sort of government control.

And seeing as how the current administration dismantled net neutrality, I don't believe that the fed is going to change its mind now.
It may be you have an old understanding of the equal time rule. After revisions decades ago it was limited so that currently all it does is guarantee that any political candidate can buy air time from any station that sells air time to their opponent. In the new media space I envision something similar where when one candidate in a race is allowed to buy access the competing candidates are also allowed to buy access. Keep in mind I quoted and was specifically responding to the hypothetical where new media companies where explicitly not allowing other candidates from having access to the space. I am not talking about Jones or any other situation, only the narrow case of opposing candidates for public office.

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Old 10th August 2018, 03:25 AM   #57
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Facebook and the other content concentrator are private US companies operating on a global medium. So if there is another internet content concentrator called TubeYou operating out of, say, China that will host Jones' crapulence then good for them. They get that business.

Your free speech laws do not operate outside the USA. So unless you are going to filter the internet for US citizens (like in China), Jones' crapulence on TubeYou will be just as readily available to them. And us too, more's the pity.

In short, Jones has nothing to complain about. And neither do "freedom loving Americans". This is like complaining that Ford doesn't provide toilets in their cars because a toilet is an American right. It's not, they are not going to, and the reason is because doing so quickly fills the car with crap and ruins the ride for everyone. Just like Jones does.
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Old 10th August 2018, 03:45 AM   #58
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RE: I think there should be an (international) organization setup that assigns a star rating ...

there used to be that thing called "we the people" and they should have the right to decide themselves whatever they pay attention to and to the extent they believe it
~
RE: Yes, this is a 'free speech' issue - the issue being that free speech shouldn't be a universal right that trumps the right of others to have a private space where they don't have to hear it.

What is that "private space" thing you are talking about?
~
RE: Alex Jones is really closer to Goebbels than any group listed in the poem.

Please, if it is not just a case of motivational metaphor, explain to me how exactly do they compare?
~
RE: So I can't really get too worried about "whose next", but I do kinda hope it's Stephan Molyneaux.

One of my points is that once they go down this path there is no end or logic to it. My only question was: has USG what it takes to become some sort of Catholic Church thought police with some "decency", openness, integrity and structure as the Catholic Church did? Quite honestly, I don't think so. They can't even cope with their own delusive nonsense they themselves create about "Vladimir Putin"
~
RE: Because we determine where the line is and then follow that. Say someone says that "all Jews are traitors to the human race and deserve death"

but, first, do you see that you are cleverhansing yourself? Language is not the kind of tool which is good for doing what you propose. People who have lived under open day light police states where the government outrightly owns the media can give you all kinds of examples, some of them quite hilarious to show to you what I mean.
~
RE: The fact is though, if you agree to the ToS for my platform to use it, and I decide you have breached the ToS, I can ban you. That's how the private world works. It's like if you are in my living room and say something I don't like, I can kick your butt out the front door and slam it in your face. That's my right, and in the private world, that right trumps your right to say whatever you like.

but again, this is not what I am talking about even though what you are saying is right and just. We are talking about wide societal aspects here and unless you can kick Alex Jones and all his infowarriors into utter space and keep that leg, boot, ... ready to keep kicking people non stop, I really don't know how your "solution" will work
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Old 10th August 2018, 04:06 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
How did they go after Alex Jones? He wasn't arrested. The government hasn't done a thing to him. Private companies decided that they didn't want his content.
That’s pretty much the story. The Onion had Jones going back to bullhorn in a public park.
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Old 10th August 2018, 04:13 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
... Private companies decided that they didn't want his content.
"Only allowed to do that when it violates their beliefs Christian religion." Otherwise, oppression.
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Old 10th August 2018, 05:30 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
We may need a revision of the radio and TV broadcasters Equal-time rule or some similar rule to stop the large new media companies from unfairly discriminating against the candidate(s) they don't like.
No, there will be other media platforms that will take up the cause.

Alex Jones' own app is trending number 1 on Android, he doesn't NEED Youtube, I have no problem with media platforms restricting speech, as long as they don't masquerade as a platform that doesn't restrict free speech.

Twitter claims to allow all sides to speak and have a platform of ideas. If they banned Jones, then I would have a problem.

I don't think Youtube does.

Free speech is the tool with which we create our society.

Kooks from both sides shout loudly, and our society operates typically right down the middle with slight variation along the mean. If you take away some of the outliers from one side, you shift the mean. I say let the kooks talk and let society come to a reasonable middle.
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Old 10th August 2018, 05:44 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
Please try and learn the quote function - it's a simple button.

...
Please.
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Old 10th August 2018, 08:07 AM   #63
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RE: Alex Jones' own app is trending number 1 on Android, he doesn't NEED Youtube, I have no problem with media platforms restricting speech, as long as they don't masquerade as a platform that doesn't restrict free speech.

Those folks should have known that what they were actually doing is giving Alex Jones more relevancy which may even extent to his friend. People will not only start listening to him more now, but they will be paying more attention to and find him more credible. I just hope it doesn't go as far as "Alex Jones for president", but things have gotten so out of hand from so many ends that even that is not such a crazy idea.

RE: Kooks from both sides shout loudly, and our society operates typically right down the middle with slight variation along the mean. If you take away some of the outliers from one side, you shift the mean. I say let the kooks talk and let society come to a reasonable middle.

Exactly! Let "we the people" talk, listen and be heard! Thank you.
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Old 10th August 2018, 08:23 AM   #64
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RE: Please try and learn the quote function - it's a simple button.

You keep constantly asking to do that. Am I the only one here who doesn't?

I should admit why is it that I can't understand why you find so annoying that "I don't quote as any intelligent human being should" and I know that this will sound to you kind of crazy in an "Alex Jones" way, but:

1) I avoid protagonistic back-and-forths of any kind. I find ad hominem bs quite stupid. I like to always talk topically. Eleanor Roosevelt said something interesting about the kinds of people who concentrate on other people, incidents and ideas

2) USG is using AI to mess with certain kinds of people or I should better say: they are using certain kinds of people to train their AI (to the point of tormenting people into committing suicide)

3) something that they play their targets with is by "multiversing" them. You go to some place and see something, interact with whom you believe to be people (but are really AI bots or just all kinds of sockpuppetry at times using minimally turked computers), but only you can see that . . .
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Old 10th August 2018, 08:29 AM   #65
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Right here you see a good example of why "codifying" language usage is virtually impossible. What seem to be robots, text parsers, ... have taken this thread from "USA Politics" into "Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories" even though I am not talking about about conspiracies or put in another way, any thing anyone says could be considered a "conspiracy" or "hate speech" ...
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Old 10th August 2018, 10:11 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by rlopez2 View Post
...
The net neutrality thing has become an issue. Are they using Alex Jones as circus monkey for their show? What they did to him I found so stupid, that I can’t help but think it is part of a wider plan.
Exactly who are they? Exactly how does this fit into net neutrality?

Originally Posted by rlopez2 View Post
1) I avoid protagonistic back-and-forths of any kind. I find ad hominem bs quite stupid. I like to always talk topically. Eleanor Roosevelt said something interesting about the kinds of people who concentrate on other people, incidents and ideas

2) USG is using AI to mess with certain kinds of people or I should better say: they are using certain kinds of people to train their AI (to the point of tormenting people into committing suicide)

3) something that they play their targets with is by "multiversing" them. You go to some place and see something, interact with whom you believe to be people (but are really AI bots or just all kinds of sockpuppetry at times using minimally turked computers), but only you can see that . . .
Do you know how to use the quote function? not yet

1 - yes, like clown stick, when he is in trouble, Obama did it, Clinton did it,

2 - USG is using What? lol, you mean AI, a computer program to do specific thing, or the AI code word to fool people as a marketing tool that computer can think? Oh, you got proof of a suicide? Was it Alex Jones?

3 - paranoia is this

poor alex jones, kicked from private venues - FF (oops, my ai bot is showing)
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Old 10th August 2018, 10:47 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
It would have to be one heck of a revision. The original was predicated on the (somewhat shaky) premise that the government owned the airwaves. In order to rent a bandwidth from them, the radio or TV station had to agree to abide by FCC regulation and other laws.

But we now have a forty year history of cables, satellites, towers, fiber optics, etc. that have never been thought to be "owned" by the feds. It'd take some doing to get them under that sort of government control.

And seeing as how the current administration dismantled net neutrality, I don't believe that the fed is going to change its mind now.
The idea of the equal-time rule was to make sure that the news outlets made the effort to present a balanced story. The problem is that it devolved into a scenario where every crackpot with an opinion gets air time.

I can't take credit for this idea, but it goes something like this:

If someone says it's raining, reporters should first LOOK OUT THE WINDOW before quoting someone who says it is not raining.

On the other hand, there was a tree frog in my shower this morning so maybe Jones was right about chemtrails turning frogs gay
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Old 10th August 2018, 11:17 AM   #68
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RE: Exactly who are they?

The Munchkins. They are up to something lately and they will come after you too anyway regardless. I heard they have been learning some AI stuff as well and are on a mission from Vladimir Putin, so get ready while you can.

RE: Exactly how does this fit into net neutrality?

OK, I have a more interesting question for you: provided that is the case, regardless of how self righteous you are about being so close to the Universe’ very rear end, since when it is someone else's responsibility to deal with one’s own shortsightedness even if he dresses it in ad hominem cr@p and arrogance?
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Old 10th August 2018, 11:45 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
Well, I'll put aside for the moment the distinction between "government" and "private business" to make another point.

Alex Jones is really closer to Goebbels than any group listed in the poem. You know, the intolerant, violence-formenting conspiracy peddler that has the favor of the also intolerant government authority, and that the poem was warning you would wreak havoc if allowed to run wild. The guy's even a pretty obvious antisemite.

.
That is unfair to Goebbels. Goebbels was a lot more competent then Jones ever was.
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Old 10th August 2018, 12:02 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by rlopez2 View Post
RE: Exactly how does this fit into net neutrality?

OK, I have a more interesting question for you: provided that is the case, regardless of how self righteous you are about being so close to the Universe’ very rear end, since when it is someone else's responsibility to deal with one’s own shortsightedness even if he dresses it in ad hominem cr@p and arrogance?

Can you answer the question please, not bluster.

Perhaps you’re not trolling at this point, but failing to answer it and instead providing a word salad doesn’t help your case.
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Old 10th August 2018, 12:34 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by rlopez2 View Post
RE: Exactly who are they?

The Munchkins. They are up to something lately and they will come after you too anyway regardless. I heard they have been learning some AI stuff as well and are on a mission from Vladimir Putin, so get ready while you can.

RE: Exactly how does this fit into net neutrality?

OK, I have a more interesting question for you: provided that is the case, regardless of how self righteous you are about being so close to the Universe’ very rear end, since when it is someone else's responsibility to deal with one’s own shortsightedness even if he dresses it in ad hominem cr@p and arrogance?
They, your 'they', are fantasy beings. I used that a lot when I was three, "mom, they did it, not I".

No clue how it fits net neutrality. Why not say, no clue? You could have said now Comcast can throttle traffice to Alex Jones web site of woo since NN has been overturned (or what ever state it is in now).

As for AI, it remains a marketing gimmick, and remains a computer program. oops, they cut off my phone, and stopped my internet, they are targeting me again; run - (wife said mow the lawn, and she shut off the AI bot, aka the router and modem - darn, she alex jonesed me)
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Old 10th August 2018, 12:37 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by rlopez2 View Post
incoherent material snipped to focus on even more incoherent material

OK, I have a more interesting question for you: provided that is the case, regardless of how self righteous you are about being so close to the Universe’ very rear end, since when it is someone else's responsibility to deal with one’s own shortsightedness even if he dresses it in ad hominem cr@p and arrogance?
1. - No, you don't.

2. You describe your posts perfectly. What will be your solution to your own shortcomings in communication skills and rational thought?
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Old 10th August 2018, 12:57 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by rlopez2 View Post
Right here you see a good example of why "codifying" language usage is virtually impossible. What seem to be robots, text parsers, ... have taken this thread from "USA Politics" into "Conspiracies and Conspiracy Theories" even though I am not talking about about conspiracies or put in another way, any thing anyone says could be considered a "conspiracy" or "hate speech" ...
That's what we wanted you to think.
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Old 10th August 2018, 03:20 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by rlopez2 View Post
What I mean is that they are one and the same thing anyway. In the 90's (after the technological and societal adoption of the Internet) "we the people" stopped being the ones being offered products and services and became the products and services to be offered. Both business and politicians benefit from that.

I think you'll find advertisements going all the way back to the ancient Greeks. The idea of selling viewers to advertisers is thousands of years old.


Quote:
just look at the board of those institutions and you will see they are all CIA, FBI, ... it didn't use to be that way. That is a falsifiable trend anyone can check. Why does Coca-Cola care about PETA activists? Why is amazon involved in widespread none consensual experimentation of the homeless population in Seattle? ...

The Board of Directors of Facebook - nobody from the FBI or CIA.

The Board of Directors of Coca-Cola - nobody from the FBI or CIA

The Board of Directors of Amazon - nobody from the FBI or CIA.

The Board of Directors of Alphabet, Inc. (parent of Google and YouTube) - nobody from the FBI or CIA.


So, exactly where should I look? The highest ranked former government official is Erskine Bowles, who was Clinton's Chief of Staff. He's been out of government service for twenty years, and, even then, he served in a Democratic administration.
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Old 10th August 2018, 03:44 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Loss Leader View Post
...

So, exactly where should I look? The highest ranked former government official ...
I think I see your mistake...
You're looking for the insidious gov't spies and masters of mind control that you can see.
You need to look for the ones that only Senor Lopez can see, which... uh, you can not.

Okay... there may be a flaw in this plan.
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Old 10th August 2018, 11:17 PM   #76
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RE: I think you'll find advertisements going all the way back to the ancient Greeks. The idea of selling viewers to advertisers is thousands of years old.

Actually advertisements anywhere close to the idea we have of it today are a relatively new idea. Surely, it didn't, couldn't make any sense before the invention of the printing press. Sure you could let your neighbor know you got some extra limes and are selling lemonade, but from where did you get that "going all the way back to the ancient Greeks" phrase? It certainly sound catchy, but, does it make sense?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_advertising

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advertising
~
RE: The Board of Directors of:
RE: https://investor.fb.com/corporate-go...e/default.aspx
RE: https://www.coca-colacompany.com/our...d-of-directors
RE: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....irol-govmanage
RE: https://www.reuters.com/finance/stoc...fficers/GOOG.O
RE: nobody from the FBI or CIA. So, exactly where should I look?

To me the FBI, CIA, NSA, ... are one and the same thing once the U.S. became a police state, but apparently I should have explicitly included "NSA" before my ellipsis. Also, you got me on language usage (the word "board") but I used that word in a certain context, meaning that there is not difference whatsoever, between politicians, business people, akademia, ... they are all in bed and in such a promiscuous way that it is hard at this point to tell who is who and who is doing what anyway and it is at times even hard trying to figure out why: for example, why did amazon's CEO Jeff Bezos' start messing with programs helping homeless people in Seattle? I wonder from where does he/his company even find time to worry about such matters. What is the point anyway in doing that? (other than satisfying their psychopathy, sadism)

http://www.google.com/search?q=Jeff+...mazon+homeless


Here are some links of other places you could look into giving you more (and truer I would say) insight about those companies which boards you offered links to and, please, don’t let all those links for you to look into overwhelm you. You could just answer one (1) single question? Why is it exactly that the APA includes high ranking CIA officials? (hint: they are not working as therapists for the government)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_...llance_program)

if you tell me that you believe the public statements of the same companies you used as example, then we simply don’t understand each other on basic issues

AFAIK, there were only three (3) U.S. IT companies who said NO to the government and/or didn’t say “Yes, sir!” fast enough, 2 of which went bust.
~
// __ Coca Cola Hired Spy Firm Stratfor to Investigate PETA

http://www.greenisthenewred.com/blog...ate-peta/5791/
~
// __ Secrets, lies and Snowden's email: why I was forced to shut down Lavabit

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-snowden-email
~
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http://www.thecommonsenseshow.com/be...oseph-nacchio/
~
// __ Bill Gates: I think he broke the law, so I certainly wouldn’t characterize him as a hero.

Q: Thanks to Edward Snowden, who has leaked tens of thousands of NSA documents, we are. Do you consider him a hero or a traitor?

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture...erview-111915/
~
by the way that Bill Gates is the same one that selling OS with backdoors to the NSA since the 1990's to billions of people around the world and when some technical people blew the whistle and tried to explain those issues, they were deemed "crazies" and their claims as "conspiracy theories"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSAKEY
~
// __ 14 cutting edge firms funded by the CIA

https://www.businessinsider.com/comp...-by-cia-2016-9
~
// __ site:theguardian.com APA American Psychiatric CIA

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%...sychiatric+CIA
~
// __ site:theintercept.com APA American Psychiatric CIA

http://www.google.com/search?q=site%...sychiatric+CIA
~
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Old 10th August 2018, 11:35 PM   #77
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RE: The idea of selling viewers to advertisers . . .

I still think you don't get the main idea that I am trying to convey. I am not talking about "viewers", "prospective buyers". What I am talking about is in the 1990's technology turned "me and you" into the products to be sold to businesses. Those who see that difference may say that it doesn't matter much, that it is unavoidable, "just" a consequence of "technological progress" , so morality should not be involved in this, . . . I don't think so.
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Old 11th August 2018, 12:49 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by rlopez2 View Post
RE: Please try and learn the quote function - it's a simple button.

You keep constantly asking to do that. Am I the only one here who doesn't?

I should admit why is it that I can't understand why you find so annoying that "I don't quote as any intelligent human being should" and I know that this will sound to you kind of crazy in an "Alex Jones" way, but:

1) I avoid protagonistic back-and-forths of any kind. I find ad hominem bs quite stupid. I like to always talk topically. Eleanor Roosevelt said something interesting about the kinds of people who concentrate on other people, incidents and ideas

2) USG is using AI to mess with certain kinds of people or I should better say: they are using certain kinds of people to train their AI (to the point of tormenting people into committing suicide)

3) something that they play their targets with is by "multiversing" them. You go to some place and see something, interact with whom you believe to be people (but are really AI bots or just all kinds of sockpuppetry at times using minimally turked computers), but only you can see that . . .
Yes, look around you. It's hard enough to make sense of incoherent rambling without trying to parse out what is a response to what.

I'm sure the USG's AI is not particularly interested in a tiny obscure forum.

Or perhaps I am a sneaky bot trying to mess with you?

Welcome to the Matrix.

Etc.
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Old 11th August 2018, 01:21 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by rlopez2 View Post

RE: The idea of selling viewers to advertisers . . .

I still think you don't get the main idea that I am trying to convey. I am not talking about "viewers", "prospective buyers". What I am talking about is in the 1990's technology turned "me and you" into the products to be sold to businesses. Those who see that difference may say that it doesn't matter much, that it is unavoidable, "just" a consequence of "technological progress" , so morality should not be involved in this, . . . I don't think so.

I am trying to understand your aversion to posting:


Quote:
The idea of selling viewers to advertisers . . .
and instead posting:



RE: The idea of selling viewers to advertisers . . .


It is exactly the same thing as using the quote button, but far less confusing to other readers.

Do you have a problem in actually finding the quote button?


Norm
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Old 11th August 2018, 02:10 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by fromdownunder View Post
I am trying to understand your aversion to posting:


and instead posting:



RE: The idea of selling viewers to advertisers . . .


It is exactly the same thing as using the quote button, but far less confusing to other readers.

Do you have a problem in actually finding the quote button?


Norm
Don't you know that the quote button sends a message to the CIA and the NSA, so they can track what rlopez is doing and what nefarious plots of them he's revealing?

<sarcasm off>

I'm back to lurking mode.
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