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Old 8th January 2019, 04:03 PM   #401
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
What were some of her other notable academic achievements?


Quote:
Ocasio-Cortez attended Yorktown High School, graduating in 2007,[16] where she won second prize in the Intel International Science and Engineering Fair with a microbiology research project on the effect of antioxidants on C. elegans' lifespan.[17] As a result, the International Astronomical Union named a small asteroid after her: 23238 Ocasio-Cortez.[18][19] In high school, she took part in the National Hispanic Institute's Lorenzo de Zavala (LDZ) Youth Legislative Session. She later became the LDZ Secretary of State while she attended Boston University. Ocasio-Cortez had a John F. Lopez Fellowship.[20] In 2008, while Ocasio-Cortez was a sophomore at Boston University, her father died of lung cancer.[21][22] During college, she was an intern in the immigration office of U.S. Senator Ted Kennedy.[23] She graduated cum laude from Boston University's College of Arts and Sciences in 2011 with a bachelor's degree in international relations and a minor in economics
(wikipedia)

Whew! That took a lot of time. And it definitely proves shes "not intelligent".

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Old 8th January 2019, 04:11 PM   #402
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Originally Posted by johnny karate View Post
Ocasio-Cortez graduated with honors and had other notable academic achievements.

Bush and Trump did not.

There is no double standard.
A. Trump is not smart, maybe cunning but not Smart.
B. Bush is likely slightly above average, I really think he was unfairly painted as stupid but who really cares.

That being said, what honors did AOC graduate with? What were her notable academic achievements. This is a question of legit curiosity. I will be moderately surprised, she seems of relatively average intellect to me. Well I tend to disagree with her economics I think it mostly because she strikes me as rather naive and utopian, not dumb though. I'll probably just google it I suppose, or not, I'm not actually that interested in her. I won't vote for her unless the only other option is Trump.*

Now that being said, this last page has made me rather sad. Mostly "no you are" levels of discourse.

*I shouldn't say that, the Reps will probably find someone.

Edit to add, I guess I won't have to google it. Much of that is just BS, but there are a couple of pretty impressive achievements in there. Just shows that even smart hard working people can have some really bad ideas.

Stachys, the snark is unwarranted. Some drops a line about AOC's many achievements, its reasonable ask what they were. Its not sir drinks a-lots job to prove karate's point.

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Old 8th January 2019, 04:24 PM   #403
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
A
That being said, what honors did AOC graduate with?
Cum laude at Boston means that she graduated in the top 30%. Specifically, not in the top 15%, but in the next 15%, from 70th to 85th percentile of her given college.

I was summa cum laude in my grad degree, I don't know if my undergrad did the Latin thing or not. I think it was just "with honors" for top 10% or whatever. Anyway, it sounds better in Latin, obviously.

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Old 8th January 2019, 04:43 PM   #404
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
A. Trump is not smart, maybe cunning but not Smart.
B. Bush is likely slightly above average, I really think he was unfairly painted as stupid but who really cares.

That being said, what honors did AOC graduate with? What were her notable academic achievements. This is a question of legit curiosity. I will be moderately surprised, she seems of relatively average intellect to me. Well I tend to disagree with her economics I think it mostly because she strikes me as rather naive and utopian, not dumb though. I'll probably just google it I suppose, or not, I'm not actually that interested in her. I won't vote for her unless the only other option is Trump.*

Now that being said, this last page has made me rather sad. Mostly "no you are" levels of discourse.

*I shouldn't say that, the Reps will probably find someone.

Edit to add, I guess I won't have to google it. Much of that is just BS, but there are a couple of pretty impressive achievements in there. Just shows that even smart hard working people can have some really bad ideas.

Stachys, the snark is unwarranted. Some drops a line about AOC's many achievements, its reasonable ask what they were. Its not sir drinks a-lots job to prove karate's point.
Bad ideas like Health care for all or higher marginal tax rates for the wealthiest citizens? You mean those bad ideas?

It should be noted that the vast majority of Western developed nations have mostly adopted these so called bad ideas. It should be also noted that through the 40s, 50s, 60s the highest marginal tax rates in the US were above 70 percent. In the 40s and 50s it was 90 percent.

So IMV, a US politician embracing those ideas doesn't make them crazy or stupid.
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Old 8th January 2019, 04:53 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by GlennB View Post
To expand on your point:

"Ocasio-Cortez attended Yorktown High School, graduating in 2007,[16] where she won second prize in the Intel International Science and Engineering Fair with a microbiology research project on the effect of antioxidants on C. elegans' lifespan.[17] As a result, the International Astronomical Union named a small asteroid after her: 23238 Ocasio-Cortez.[18][19] In high school, she took part in the National Hispanic Institute's Lorenzo de Zavala (LDZ) Youth Legislative Session. She later became the LDZ Secretary of State while she attended Boston University. Ocasio-Cortez had a John F. Lopez Fellowship.[20] In 2008, while Ocasio-Cortez was a sophomore at Boston University, her father died of lung cancer.[21][22] During college, she was an intern in the immigration office of U.S. Senator Ted Kennedy.[23] She graduated cum laude from Boston University's College of Arts and Sciences in 2011 with a bachelor's degree in international relations and a minor in economics."

Alexandria Ocasio-CortezWP
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
A. Trump is not smart, maybe cunning but not Smart.
B. Bush is likely slightly above average, I really think he was unfairly painted as stupid but who really cares.

That being said, what honors did AOC graduate with? What were her notable academic achievements. This is a question of legit curiosity. I will be moderately surprised, she seems of relatively average intellect to me. Well I tend to disagree with her economics I think it mostly because she strikes me as rather naive and utopian, not dumb though. I'll probably just google it I suppose, or not, I'm not actually that interested in her. I won't vote for her unless the only other option is Trump.*

Now that being said, this last page has made me rather sad. Mostly "no you are" levels of discourse.

*I shouldn't say that, the Reps will probably find someone.

Edit to add, I guess I won't have to google it. Much of that is just BS, but there are a couple of pretty impressive achievements in there. Just shows that even smart hard working people can have some really bad ideas.

Stachys, the snark is unwarranted. Some drops a line about AOC's many achievements, its reasonable ask what they were. Its not sir drinks a-lots job to prove karate's point.
Perhaps it wouldn't have warranted my "snark" if Sir Drinks had bothered to do the minimum of research to answer his own question instead of expecting others to do it for him. Which, it turns out, someone already had two pages ago.

You won't have to worry about voting for AOC in 2020 as she won't be 35. She'll only turn 31 that year.
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Old 8th January 2019, 05:03 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
What were some of her other notable academic achievements?
She somehow managed not to be videotaped in silk boxers watching two Russian hookers pee on each other. That alone puts her in a league above Trump.
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Old 8th January 2019, 05:08 PM   #407
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Originally Posted by Craig4 View Post
She somehow managed not to be videotaped in silk boxers watching two Russian hookers pee on each other. That alone puts her in a league above Trump.
And I'd bet she can use council/counsel, border/boarder and precedent/president correctly. Whether or not you agree with what she says, she at least doesn't use the syntax of a 12 year old.
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Old 8th January 2019, 05:28 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
It should be also noted that through the 40s, 50s, 60s the highest marginal tax rates in the US were above 70 percent. In the 40s and 50s it was 90 percent.
Yes, but it matters little, since what matters most to individuals is their effective tax rate. But that discussion is probably far too subtle for this forum.
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Old 8th January 2019, 05:47 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
The "if Paul Krugman says it's true, then it's true!" argument.
Really? That was the “argument?”

Quote:
That particular tactic hasn't worked out very well historically.
The tactic of linking to a piece where a noted authority offers and supports a viewpoint?
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Old 8th January 2019, 05:56 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Yes, but it matters little, since what matters most to individuals is their effective tax rate. But that discussion is probably far too subtle for this forum.
But this doesn't address my point about AOC's ideas which you and yours say are 'bad. I've heard over and over again from the right about how crazy AOCs ideas are, yet they ignore that similar ideas have been adopted in countless European countries as well as elsewhere.

I'm a huge believer that the US system of dealing with healthcare is a travesty with obscene profits for Big Pharma and the insurance industry and devastating to American consumers and businesses.

I also believe the recent tax cuts is a disaster in the making for the American economy.

Am I also crazy or stupid?
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:44 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
Yes, but it matters little, since what matters most to individuals is their effective tax rate. But that discussion is probably far too subtle for this forum.
No, what "effects" them is their effective tax rate. What "matters" is what blather they're fed by the future 71 per centers: Limbaugh, Hannity, Trump, Trump-Kushner, Carlson, Coulter, Ingraham....

If the marginal tax rate is of no matter, why does Joe the Plumber think it is? Useful stooges for the ruling elite?
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:50 PM   #412
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
No, what "effects" them is their effective tax rate. What "matters" is what blather they're fed by the future 71 per centers: Limbaugh, Hannity, Trump, Trump-Kushner, Carlson, Coulter, Ingraham....

If the marginal tax rate is of no matter, why does Joe the Plumber think it is? Useful stooges for the ruling elite?
I told you it was too subtle for this forum.
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:51 PM   #413
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
But this doesn't address my point about AOC's ideas which you and yours say are 'bad. I've heard over and over again from the right about how crazy AOCs ideas are, yet they ignore that similar ideas have been adopted in countless European countries as well as elsewhere.

I'm a huge believer that the US system of dealing with healthcare is a travesty with obscene profits for Big Pharma and the insurance industry and devastating to American consumers and businesses.

I also believe the recent tax cuts is a disaster in the making for the American economy.

Am I also crazy or stupid?
If you're crazy, then so am I.
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:55 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
But this doesn't address my point about AOC's ideas which you and yours say are 'bad. I've heard over and over again from the right about how crazy AOCs ideas are, yet they ignore that similar ideas have been adopted in countless European countries as well as elsewhere.

I'm a huge believer that the US system of dealing with healthcare is a travesty with obscene profits for Big Pharma and the insurance industry and devastating to American consumers and businesses.

I also believe the recent tax cuts is a disaster in the making for the American economy.

Am I also crazy or stupid?
You have to remember that for 40 years Conservatives have been feed a bunch of lies as if they were gospel.
  • Taxation is theft.
  • I can always spend my money better than the Government ever can
  • If I don't use it, I shouldn't have to pay for it
  • Governments should never do anything that can be privately run
  • Private is more efficient and cheaper than Government
  • Market Forces are the solution to every problem, regulation only interferes in this
  • Taxing the most wealthy less boosts the economy because they will invest more.
  • Poverty is a choice and a lifestyle

It doesn't matter how many times these are shown up to be little more than fantasy, they keep being feed to Conservatives to the point where they now believe nothing else and if their utopia hasn't occurred yet it is just because it hasn't had enough time without the Left meddling in it, and so a another double dosage of the myth will surely work this time.
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Old 8th January 2019, 06:56 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I told you it was too subtle for this forum.
Wait, you point out an aspect of taxation that supports AOC's policy proposal not being crazy nor stupid, one that she has alluded too before, and you think that other people are too obtuse to see how that supports your contention she's crazy/stupid/badong/etc?

You know you are arguing against your stated conclusion, correct?
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:00 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by sir drinks-a-lot View Post
I told you it was too subtle for this forum.
Who are you, Dick Nixon and his "secret plan to end the Vietnam War"(who knew it would be, "Simple, we just lose and leave"?). Share your erudition with us and let's discuss it rather than you insinuating you have all the answers and we poor stupid others can't figure it out.

Bring your "subtle" discussion.
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:06 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
I never brought up anyone in comparison.
But others have, and I made no indication that it was you who did.

Quote:
But that seems to be the only real defense of her.

Sad.
No, it quite clearly is not. If it seems it to you, then as you like to consistently tell others, that is down to your reading skills.

Your positive claim, that she's of no more than average intelligence based on what she has said, has not been supported by you, simply asserted by you. I asserted that based on the same evidence you allude to, she is quite intelligent. She has misread and made some misstatements and then, showing quite the intelligence and intellectual integrity, corrected them.

There is other evidence of this as well, no matter how you deny it. Keep in mind that evidence is not the same thing as 'proof'. Her academic achievements are literally evidence of her having enough intellect for the university to certify she has gained at least a specific level of knowledge and skill in those two subjects.

And no, I don't care that you don't like colleges because they're 'liberal' or whatever. Unless you have specific evidence that those courses at those colleges are not to be trusted, the 'institutes of learning lead to liberals' assertions are of no utility.

I predict you will not put up, but still declare victory.
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Old 8th January 2019, 07:43 PM   #418
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I also believe the recent tax cuts is a disaster in the making for the American economy.

Oh, yes.

Utter madness, the idea of taking money out of the economy, that would
otherwise find its way into loans for business, housing, or municipal projects
But in a system big as the one we’ve got, it will take more than three years
for things to fall apart

I just recently found an interesting graph that looks like it explains the fall in M1
money supply. The top one percent of the population had an income average of
285 thousand dollars at the end of 2016 and 300 thousand dollars at the end of
2017 for a change of 15 thousand dollar increase. The bottom ten percent the
population had an income average of 8 thousand dollars at the end of 2016
and 6.5 thousand dollars at the end of 2017 for a change of 1.5 thousand
dollar decline.

It looks like a direct transfer from one group to another, but I’m not sure.
I may have the wrong interpretation. You can find the graph here.
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Old 8th January 2019, 09:27 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by Solitaire View Post
Oh, yes.

Utter madness, the idea of taking money out of the economy, that would
otherwise find its way into loans for business, housing, or municipal projects
But in a system big as the one we’ve got, it will take more than three years
for things to fall apart

I just recently found an interesting graph that looks like it explains the fall in M1
money supply. The top one percent of the population had an income average of
285 thousand dollars at the end of 2016 and 300 thousand dollars at the end of
2017 for a change of 15 thousand dollar increase. The bottom ten percent the
population had an income average of 8 thousand dollars at the end of 2016
and 6.5 thousand dollars at the end of 2017 for a change of 1.5 thousand
dollar decline.

It looks like a direct transfer from one group to another, but I’m not sure.
I may have the wrong interpretation. You can find the graph here.
Nothing about economics is that simple because tax rates is only one variable. There are countless other factors.

The problem with the tax cuts is the deficit and where and how it is made up. For example, freezing the wages of federal workers and reducing benefits for the poor and middle class. And even though unemployment rates are high right now, history says that is not a permanent condition. Money will be needed as a stimulus. But that is problematic when we are already running large deficits as we are now an will continue to do for the foreseeable future.
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Old 8th January 2019, 09:39 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Nothing about economics is that simple because tax rates is only one variable. There are countless other factors.

The problem with the tax cuts is the deficit and where and how it is made up. For example, freezing the wages of federal workers and reducing benefits for the poor and middle class. And even though unemployment rates are high right now, history says that is not a permanent condition. Money will be needed as a stimulus. But that is problematic when we are already running large deficits as we are now an will continue to do for the foreseeable future.
Stimulus need to be properly targeted as well, and Tax Cuts rarely do that. Recently we have been seeing Tax Cuts given to business with the promise from those giving the Cuts that this will create more jobs, but without demand increasing, all that has happened is that those businesses have taken the money from the Cuts, invested it into more automation, cut jobs, increased output and run to the bank with even bigger profits for their shareholders. That sort of behaviour does not help the economy at all.
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Old 8th January 2019, 10:03 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Who are you, Dick Nixon and his "secret plan to end the Vietnam War"(who knew it would be, "Simple, we just lose and leave"?). Share your erudition with us and let's discuss it rather than you insinuating you have all the answers and we poor stupid others can't figure it out.

Bring your "subtle" discussion.
I mean, it worked.
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Old 8th January 2019, 10:04 PM   #422
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Ziggurat appears to be pretending I didn't answer his question. Interesting ploy.
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Old 9th January 2019, 02:05 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Wait, you point out an aspect of taxation that supports AOC's policy proposal not being crazy nor stupid, one that she has alluded too before, and you think that other people are too obtuse to see how that supports your contention she's crazy/stupid/badong/etc?

You know you are arguing against your stated conclusion, correct?

You're wasting your time. Actual arguments are too subtle for sir drinks-a-lot.
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Old 9th January 2019, 03:33 AM   #424
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It seems all "conservatives" we have left posting here have adopted trolling as their only method. Either that, or the collective insanity of the right has become more critical than I ever thought possible.
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Old 9th January 2019, 04:01 AM   #425
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Damn did you see her on Maddow tonight laying down the hammer on Trump the Racist? That was super awesome. She holds nothing back and just tells things like they are. The corporate elite really are evil incarnate. Trump really is a dumb racist demon. The "crisis" is entirely manufactured to suit the needs of the Trump Reich in their quest to ethnically cleanse America.


I just love her more and more.
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Old 9th January 2019, 04:01 AM   #426
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Stimulus need to be properly targeted as well, and Tax Cuts rarely do that. Recently we have been seeing Tax Cuts given to business with the promise from those giving the Cuts that this will create more jobs, but without demand increasing, all that has happened is that those businesses have taken the money from the Cuts, invested it into more automation, cut jobs, increased output and run to the bank with even bigger profits for their shareholders. That sort of behaviour does not help the economy at all.
I agree. There are other methods of stimulus that on the whole are more effdctive.
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Old 9th January 2019, 06:08 AM   #427
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Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Stimulus need to be properly targeted as well, and Tax Cuts rarely do that. Recently we have been seeing Tax Cuts given to business with the promise from those giving the Cuts that this will create more jobs, but without demand increasing, all that has happened is that those businesses have taken the money from the Cuts, invested it into more automation, cut jobs, increased output and run to the bank with even bigger profits for their shareholders. That sort of behaviour does not help the economy at all.
You just described a productivity gain. Productivity is so important, it's slowdown is a reoccurring sorry for economists.
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Old 9th January 2019, 07:16 AM   #428
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
It's okay, OC, CNN and the left-wing media aren't reporting your gaffes. These quotes do not exist on CNN or NPR. I searched. Must be why so many liberals think she's the next coming - they don't see the stories
A reminder... not only did you fail to support this claim. You didn't even provide enough data to debunk it. This is so weak it makes weak tea seem like toxic sludge.

What quotes?
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Old 9th January 2019, 08:13 AM   #429
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
But this doesn't address my point about AOC's ideas which you and yours say are 'bad. I've heard over and over again from the right about how crazy AOCs ideas are, yet they ignore that similar ideas have been adopted in countless European countries as well as elsewhere.
There's a word for that argument, ad populum. Not to mention that they've had varying success with those programs. They tend to be very successful in small homogeneous and otherwise rich countries. I'd argue that their only 3 European countries that are remotely comparable to the US in size and diversity; The UK, Germany, and France. Personally, i kind of like Germany's system. Is that what Cortez is suggesting?

Jobs guarantee is stupid.

Free college is just a give away to the rich and upper middle class liberal arts and arts majors.

Depending on which US state you live in, you can pay high income taxes than all but a dozen or so countries. It turns out most of those generous social safety nets are paid for by VATs which are almost as regressive as free tuition.

Quote:
I'm a huge believer that the US system of dealing with healthcare is a travesty with obscene profits for Big Pharma and the insurance industry and devastating to American consumers and businesses.

I also believe the recent tax cuts is a disaster in the making for the American economy.

Am I also crazy or stupid?
The insurance companies aren't really the problem, its the various providers that really cause inflation. Big pharma, Hosipitals, and medical equipment suppliers and Doctors. I've not actually seen a proposal from the left that would deal with that but hey. Its easier to demonize big pharma and insurance companies that hard working Doctors and Nurses.


Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Damn did you see her on Maddow tonight laying down the hammer on Trump the Racist? That was super awesome. She holds nothing back and just tells things like they are. The corporate elite really are evil incarnate. Trump really is a dumb racist demon. The "crisis" is entirely manufactured to suit the needs of the Trump Reich in their quest to ethnically cleanse America.


I just love her more and more.
Funny, that's just what Trump supporters say about him.

Last edited by ahhell; 9th January 2019 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 9th January 2019, 08:15 AM   #430
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I agree. There are other methods of stimulus that on the whole are more effdctive.
An even bigger issue is that there isn't anything in the US economy that suggests fiscal stimulus is required or even desirable.
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Old 9th January 2019, 08:20 AM   #431
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
T
Free college is just a give away to the rich and upper middle class liberal arts and arts majors.
How does this work?
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Old 9th January 2019, 08:25 AM   #432
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Originally Posted by Regnad Kcin View Post
Really? That was the “argument?”

The tactic of linking to a piece where a noted authority offers and supports a viewpoint?
No, the tactic of linking to a piece where Paul Krugman says stuff.
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Old 9th January 2019, 08:31 AM   #433
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
An even bigger issue is that there isn't anything in the US economy that suggests fiscal stimulus is required or even desirable.
Just ask the President! He claims the economy is great!

That's why they have to pass these massive tax cuts....
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Old 9th January 2019, 08:32 AM   #434
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
I'd argue that their only 3 European countries that are remotely comparable to the US in size and diversity;
What are you talking about? The US is far more homogeneous than Europe. In the US "speaking a different language" is a euphemism in Europe there are literally dozens of different languages spoken by peoples who spent most of the last 1000 years trying to kill each other all mingling in a common trade and economic zone.

Oh, wait, I get it now. Your ideas on culture and and diversity are all centered on skin color. People in Europe mostly have the same color skin therefor "diversity is low". The fact is that wrt diversity the only reason skin color matters at all is because racism is a thing
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Old 9th January 2019, 08:47 AM   #435
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Trump really is a dumb racist demon.
Sorry you lost to a dumb racist demon.
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Old 9th January 2019, 08:54 AM   #436
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Originally Posted by Drewbot View Post
Sorry you lost to a dumb racist demon.
Thank you.
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Old 9th January 2019, 09:04 AM   #437
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Originally Posted by PhantomWolf View Post
Stimulus need to be properly targeted as well, and Tax Cuts rarely do that. Recently we have been seeing Tax Cuts given to business with the promise from those giving the Cuts that this will create more jobs, but without demand increasing, all that has happened is that those businesses have taken the money from the Cuts, invested it into more automation, cut jobs, increased output and run to the bank with even bigger profits for their shareholders. That sort of behaviour does not help the economy at all.
I agree. There are other methods of stimulus that on the whole are more effdctive.
And this really shouldn't be difficult to work out - as it's easy to see in the extreme case.

If a country has $1B to stimulate the economy, it could give a tax break to the ultra rich, giving the thousand richest people $1-million each. They'd hardly notice that. They'd probably invest much of it (quite possibly offshore) and might also spend it on luxuries that don't benefit the local economy - buying another yacht made in the Netherlands wouldn't stimulate the US economy except very indirectly, for example.

If the same country gave $1000 to the poorest million people, then that would have a huge effect and a far higher proportion of the money would be spent in the local area, and immediately recycled in the economy and ultimately ending back in government funds through sales and income taxes, for example.

Obviously this is a silly example, but the principle holds. The most cost-effective way of stimulating the economy is to give the money to the poorest, as they are more likely to spend the money and in the most deprived areas.
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
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US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 9th January 2019, 10:05 AM   #438
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Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
There's a word for that argument, ad populum. Not to mention that they've had varying success with those programs. They tend to be very successful in small homogeneous and otherwise rich countries. I'd argue that their only 3 European countries that are remotely comparable to the US in size and diversity; The UK, Germany, and France. Personally, i kind of like Germany's system. Is that what Cortez is suggesting?
What a bunch of malarkey. It isn't an ad populum fallacy. It's a demonstration that AOC's ideas are so crazy that they have been adopted by many many countries. Your argument is a fallacy as it suggests without evidence that various differences means it wouldn't work here.
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Jobs guarantee is stupid.
Another assertion without evidence. Ever hear this one? That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without it.
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
Free college is just a give away to the rich and upper middle class liberal arts and arts majors.
I beg to differ. Free college leads to higher economic production. The GI bill after WWII proves that. But I believe we have to look beyond traditional colleges and develop schools that teach new skills.
Originally Posted by ahhell View Post
The insurance companies aren't really the problem, its the various providers that really cause inflation. Big pharma, Hosipitals, and medical equipment suppliers and Doctors. I've not actually seen a proposal from the left that would deal with that but hey. Its easier to demonize big pharma and insurance companies that hard working Doctors and Nurses.
Like HELL they're not. The insurance industry is a leech sometimes sponging as much as 10 to 15 percent simply for the privilege of working the numbers. Medicare with all its foibles is as much as 5 times more efficient. And Big Pharma has really stuck it to US Consumers with monopolistic practices. There is a reason that drugs in Canada and Europe are a fraction of what they are in the US. Its interesting when they compare the cost of healthcare in all these other countries and on average they are half of what they are in the States.
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Old 9th January 2019, 10:09 AM   #439
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post

Like HELL they're not. The insurance industry is a leech sometimes sponging as much as 10 to 15 percent simply for the privilege of working the numbers. Medicare with all its foibles is as much as 5 times more efficient. And Big Pharma has really stuck it to US Consumers with monopolistic practices. There is a reason that drugs in Canada and Europe are a fraction of what they are in the US. Its interesting when they compare the cost of healthcare in all these other countries and on average they are half of what they are in the States.
As shown in my signature. The US actually spends a slightly higher proportion of its GDP on public healthcare than the UK, but then spends a huge amount more on private healthcare on top of that.
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OECD healthcare spending
Expenditure on healthcare
http://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/health-data.htm
link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
UK 8.5% of GDP of which 83.3% is public expenditure - 7.1% of GDP is public spending
US 16.4% of GDP of which 48.2% is public expenditure - 7.9% of GDP is public spending
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Old 9th January 2019, 10:11 AM   #440
varwoche
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Originally Posted by Travis View Post
Damn did you see her on Maddow tonight laying down the hammer on Trump the Racist? That was super awesome. She holds nothing back and just tells things like they are. The corporate elite really are evil incarnate. Trump really is a dumb racist demon. The "crisis" is entirely manufactured to suit the needs of the Trump Reich in their quest to ethnically cleanse America.

I just love her more and more.
I didn't watch closely, but I watched enough to be disappointed that Maddow featured her the way she did. I don't expect a newbie to best represent the state of play, and AOC didn't disappoint. She was on Maddow because she's a shiny object and shiny objects get ratings.

I like AOC. I support most of what she's for (to the extent I'm aware of what she's for). I expect I will like her more once she learns the ropes.
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