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Old Today, 07:50 AM   #241
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
I don't even necessarily disagree with single payer, it's obviously heard that way. Government has done its best to force it.

Eventually you're going to get everything you want. There's no way a small contingent of rich are going to be able to hold back the masses from getting their freebies. But the biggest reason is the world is headed that way to set up for the Ant-Christ. I'm sure none here believe that but it's obvious to believers.
Your apocalyptic resignation to creating a better world while we are here would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
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Old Today, 07:56 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
But the biggest reason is the world is headed that way to set up for the Ant-Christ. I'm sure none here believe that but it's obvious to believers.
This should make you ecstatic. You should be getting ready to rapture on up. Tell you what, I'll buy some of your tools and **** right now, ten cents on the dollar.
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Old Today, 08:09 AM   #243
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
Your apocalyptic resignation to creating a better world while we are here would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.
This sort of thing is terribly amusing. In any case, It's not going to happen. I like the world to much to end it, and the 'anti-christ' is in time out until he can learn to play nice.
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Old Today, 08:21 AM   #244
acbytesla
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Originally Posted by Logger
But the biggest reason is the world is headed that way to set up for the Ant-Christ. I'm sure none here believe that but it'
Originally Posted by Shalamar View Post
This sort of thing is terribly amusing. In any case, It's not going to happen. I like the world to much to end it, and the 'anti-christ' is in time out until he can learn to play nice.
Well, Logger is right. I don't believe in the anti-Christ or that the rapture would be preceded by free healthcare.
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Old Today, 08:26 AM   #245
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Wait, wait, wait . . . I've never heard of this ant-christ thing. Is it in one of the apocryphal books?
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Old Today, 08:27 AM   #246
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Originally Posted by Resume View Post
Wait, wait, wait . . . I've never heard of this ant-christ thing. Is it in one of the apocryphal books?
He's really tiny.
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Old Today, 08:53 AM   #247
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Taking half a persons income isn't too high?
A marginal tax rate of 50% does not actually mean that half a person's income is taken (only 50% of the income above the threshold for the 50% bracket).

I'm not familiar with the tax structure in Norway or Denmakr, but I'd be surprised if anybody is paying half their income in taxes.
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Old Today, 09:09 AM   #248
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Originally Posted by CORed View Post
A marginal tax rate of 50% does not actually mean that half a person's income is taken (only 50% of the income above the threshold for the 50% bracket).

I'm not familiar with the tax structure in Norway or Denmakr, but I'd be surprised if anybody is paying half their income in taxes.
I'd really like to know why this is such a horrible problem. If we took half of Bill Gates's income this year do you really think he'd miss it? How many yachts does Paul Allen need? Isn't the Tatoosh and the Octopus enough? 90 percent of my income every year I don't touch and I doubt you would call me rich.

OTOH, 10 percent to someone living on the poverty line is huge.
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Old Today, 09:14 AM   #249
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'd really like to know why this is such a horrible problem. If we took half of Bill Gates's income this year do you really think he'd miss it? How many yachts does Paul Allen need? Isn't the Tatoosh and the Octopus enough? 90 percent of my income every year I don't touch and I doubt you would call me rich.

OTOH, 10 percent to someone living on the poverty line is huge.
Yes, I do think he would miss it, and I do think Paul Allen needs 3+ yachts. What is your point?
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Old Today, 09:28 AM   #250
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yes, I do think he would miss it, and I do think Paul Allen needs 3+ yachts. What is your point?
But consider this:

Paul Allen is awesome at business, so we want him to work for as long as possible.
But if his dream is, say, 5 yachts, then he can quit as soon as he has the money to buy them.
So in order to make the most of his talent, we should tax him heavily, thereby delaying the moment when he has saved enough money to sail into the sunset in style.
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Old Today, 09:28 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yes, I do think he would miss it, and I do think Paul Allen needs 3+ yachts. What is your point?
Well alrighty then.
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Old Today, 09:31 AM   #252
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yes, I do think he would miss it, and I do think Paul Allen needs 3+ yachts. What is your point?
Any evidence for that?
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Old Today, 09:37 AM   #253
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Any evidence for that?
There is no need for evidence. It is is sound philosophical principles/thinking and besides how I think is how reality is.
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Old Today, 09:38 AM   #254
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Any evidence for that?
Any evidence on a claim of empathy? I don't know how that would work.
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Old Today, 09:39 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Any evidence on a claim of empathy? I don't know how that would work.
Then why did you make the claim? Seems very out of character.
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Old Today, 09:40 AM   #256
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Then why did you make the claim? Seems very out of character.
I am perfectly happy to be asked to use empathy and reach a conclusion on it. I just don't know how one provides evidence of that use of empathy. It isn't a claim of fact.
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Old Today, 09:44 AM   #257
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I am perfectly happy to be asked to use empathy and reach a conclusion on it. I just don't know how one provides evidence of that use of empathy. It isn't a claim of fact.
Right, but you have over and over placed yourself above such unprovable claims. Hell, you've distanced yourself from the utility of "Facts" and empiricism, preferring logical "truths."

I'm curious why you think your empathy towards how you imagine two of the richest people on the planet feel is relevant to a discussion of tax rates.
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Old Today, 09:49 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
Right, but you have over and over placed yourself above such unprovable claims. Hell, you've distanced yourself from the utility of "Facts" and empiricism, preferring logical "truths."

I'm curious why you think your empathy towards how you imagine two of the richest people on the planet feel is relevant to a discussion of tax rates.
Then you misunderstand me. I object to asserting provable claims that are not proven. Asserting unprovable claims is perfectly fine.

ACBY directly asked how the two richest people would feel

Quote:
If we took half of Bill Gates's income this year do you really think he'd miss it? How many yachts does Paul Allen need? Isn't the Tatoosh and the Octopus enough?
Those are emotion based questions.
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Old Today, 09:54 AM   #259
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Originally Posted by acbytesla View Post
I'd really like to know why this is such a horrible problem. If we took half of Bill Gates's income this year do you really think he'd miss it? How many yachts does Paul Allen need? Isn't the Tatoosh and the Octopus enough? 90 percent of my income every year I don't touch and I doubt you would call me rich.

OTOH, 10 percent to someone living on the poverty line is huge.
Do you really think he'd miss it? Lol

Quite telling and he is a rabid leftist, why doesn't he just give it to you?
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Old Today, 09:54 AM   #260
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Then you misunderstand me. I object to asserting provable claims that are not proven. Asserting unprovable claims is perfectly fine.
What do you mean, "perfectly fine"? You think policy should be based on a series of unprovable claims?
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Old Today, 09:56 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
But consider this:

Paul Allen is awesome at business, so we want him to work for as long as possible.
But if his dream is, say, 5 yachts, then he can quit as soon as he has the money to buy them.
So in order to make the most of his talent, we should tax him heavily, thereby delaying the moment when he has saved enough money to sail into the sunset in style.
Because leftists live in fantasy land and ol Paul is going to let you have your way with him?
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Old Today, 09:59 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
What do you mean, "perfectly fine"? You think policy should be based on a series of unprovable claims?
I'm not talking politics, but life. If someone wishes to assert something really stupid, but unfalsifiable, I'm just going to go on reading my book. It is the falsifiable stuff I'm going to call them out on.

I'm not really politically active, so I can't really comment about policy.
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Old Today, 10:01 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Because leftists live in fantasy land and ol Paul is going to let you have your way with him?
It makes more sense than the Libertarian folly that lower income tax makes people work more.
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Old Today, 10:02 AM   #264
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
I'm not talking politics, but life. If someone wishes to assert something really stupid, but unfalsifiable, I'm just going to go on reading my book. It is the falsifiable stuff I'm going to call them out on.
I suppose that's how we should have responded to your post?
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Old Today, 10:04 AM   #265
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
I suppose that's how we should have responded to your post?
Well it was ACBY's question. So I really wasn't directing it at anyone else. I don't care what you do.
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Old Today, 10:04 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
It makes more sense than the Libertarian folly that lower income tax makes people work more.
Well there is a certain percentage that works best. No one is going to work being taxed 100%. It would be nice if government could settle on a number and leave it alone.
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Old Today, 10:06 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
What do you mean, "perfectly fine"? You think policy should be based on a series of unprovable claims?
The idea that there is a level of income which is enough and the rest should be taken by tax and redistributed is an unprovable claim. It's an ideological position.
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Old Today, 10:09 AM   #268
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
The idea that there is a level of income which is enough and the rest should be taken by tax and redistributed is an unprovable claim. It's an ideological position.
And quite depressing at that. I remember writing a huge check to the federal government for some property sold, what was so depressing was knowing it was going down a rat hole.
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Old Today, 10:12 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by xjx388 View Post
The idea that there is a level of income which is enough and the rest should be taken by tax and redistributed is an unprovable claim. It's an ideological position.
If that's ideology, then it all is. The idea that any tax should happen, the idea that there should be a government at all, the idea that you deserve to keep anything you make...

No, that's a silly frame. The question is how to best organize a society. Certainly, there will be some values that are advanced that people may disagree on, but there is ample empirical evidence to guide the discussion.

I get whey Glibertarians would want people to think it was all about ideology, after all, empiricism rejects every point they've ever put forward, but ideology is less important than factual reality. It's simply a matter of fact, for example, that single payer nations spend less per capita on healthcare than the US does. What you do with that fact may depend on ideology, but it's perfectly possible to move from a factual understanding of the world to principles of good government.

Or we can play the brain in a vat game.
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Old Today, 10:15 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by TraneWreck View Post
The question is how to best organize a society.
That isn't always the question. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. Sometimes the question is if you think Bill Gates will feel sad if he had to pay more taxes and there isn't a broader point.
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