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Tags donald trump , mental illness issues , psychiatry incidents , psychiatry issues , Trump controversies

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Old 24th April 2017, 05:54 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
The tweets said, "Would still beat Hillary in ..... ...popular vote" and you misrepresented them. Maybe you are insane.
"Still" implies that he already won it.
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Old 24th April 2017, 05:55 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
For those claiming this is just a political tactic, please read the following excerpt from an AP interview. Whatever label you want to put on it, Donald Trump is not a normal person:
It's like a nightmarish version of a chat bot.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:11 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
"Still" implies that he already won it.
"Popular vote" is the not universally understood term.

Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
It's like a nightmarish version of a chat bot.
It's probably more lack of experience than insanity.

A seasoned politician can talk the pants off an interviewer without saying anything. In time, Trump should be able to develop a similar skill.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:18 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
"Popular vote" is the not universally understood term.


It's probably more lack of experience than insanity.

A seasoned politician can talk the pants off an interviewer without saying anything. In time, Trump should be able to develop a similar skill.
Trump has been giving media interviews for decades, he doesn't seem to have learnt much in all that time. I would say the evidence is against him being able to learn.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:28 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It's probably more lack of experience than insanity.

A seasoned politician can talk the pants off an interviewer without saying anything. In time, Trump should be able to develop a similar skill.
Trump has had his entire adult life to develop his speaking skills.
He made it his mission to make himself front page news in New York
for decades.

He is 70 years old now.

How much more time should he be given to develop
the ability to speak in whole sentences?
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:35 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
What lesson is supposed to be taught? That you must only vote for vertical thinking Democrats?
You think every Republican is as self-absorbed, ignorant and incompetent as Trump?

There are plenty of reasonable candidates out there of whatever political stripe. Trump wasn't one of them.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:38 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
Do you believe that it is impossible for professionals in the field to make an accurate diagnosis without personal interviews, regardless of how much other available data there is?

Or do you think only that it is unethical to arrive at such a diagnosis publicly, regardless of whether or not it is based in fact?

Should they keep silent out of some arbitrary ethical principle, even if their concern is justified by an abundance of evidence, and the welfare of the country is at stake?

Also, what is this ethical principle based on? Are professional groups condemning these statements and calling for the responsible parties to lose their licenses?
I don't know whether diagnosis requires personal interviews, but I do think publicly discussing diagnoses is an issue, whether the person is your patient or not.

I don't know about the actions of professional groups in this regard.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:38 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It's probably more lack of experience than insanity.
Lack of experience? The man's been giving interviews, doing TV shows and negociating deals for decades on end. What extra experience do you think he needs to be speaking coherently?
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:39 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
And a post just upthread also brings up this aspect.

From the OP article;

Dueling ethics?

Do you think your command of the ethics involved is superior to someone who not only works in the field, but teaches it?
I would be more interested in seeing the comments of a medical ethicist.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:39 AM   #130
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I remain underwhelmed to the point of mild disgust by "professionals" who publicly diagnose peopl they haven't examined.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:44 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
Huh, a lot of folks worried about trump's danger to the USA's democratic process are borrowing a trick from Soviet Russia: declaring political opponents insane.

Not a good look.
Sometimes people claiming insanity of another are lying for political reasons, other times they are telling the absolute truth. Same for psychiatrists........
With trumpf most actions and responses and decisions seem to most rational persons to indicate some above mid-level mental incompetence. Or highly id-level functionality.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:45 AM   #132
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And possibly both!!!
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:48 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by snoop_doxie View Post
Trump has had his entire adult life to develop his speaking skills.
He made it his mission to make himself front page news in New York
for decades.

He is 70 years old now.

How much more time should he be given to develop
the ability to speak in whole sentences?
How is that better than interweaving three sentences into one? Give Trump his due, man.
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Old 24th April 2017, 06:56 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
"Popular vote" is the not universally understood term.
Really?

Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It's probably more lack of experience than insanity.

A seasoned politician can talk the pants off an interviewer without saying anything. In time, Trump should be able to develop a similar skill.
No, he is trying to convince the interviewer that he doesn't watch TV shows that are critical of him but gets himself in a bind because he had just said that he does. He almost seems to be implying that he's developed a psychic sense of when not to watch, but at any rate he wants us to be impressed that he's "developed this ability" to not watch himself being criticized. WTF?

There's more to it than the simple fact that he's lying, again (one insider says he "hate-watches" critical shows late at night while on the phone with friends, and that he does still watch at least the beginning of Morning Joe to see if they're talking about him). There's more to it than the fact that he irrationally considers anything critical to be "fake news." In denying that he even watches such shows, he's apparently become hyper-sensitive to criticism about being hyper-sensitive to criticism. His only defense is denial, but denying that it bothers him isn't enough; he wants us to believe that it can't bother him because he doesn't even watch it.

Who is he really trying to convince -- us or himself? Would a sane person really expect either to work?
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:09 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by Cleon View Post
I remain underwhelmed to the point of mild disgust by "professionals" who publicly diagnose peopl they haven't examined.
Are you incapable of drawing your own conclusions?
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:10 AM   #136
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'i didn't think i would lose the ability to stop watching anything about myself'
is this... i mean apart from calling it an ability... am i ...
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:21 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Lack of experience? The man's been giving interviews, doing TV shows and negociating deals for decades on end. What extra experience do you think he needs to be speaking coherently?
It's a different ball game when you are a politician.

I actually understood that he doesn't like CNN in that interview. A true politician would never have given away so much information in an interview. They know that every word they utter is potentially a weapon for their opponents.
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:22 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It's a different ball game when you are a politician.
Not to the point where you can't make complete sentences.

The man's been on the national stage for ages. There's no excuse for the way he just throws words around like this.
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:24 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
"Popular vote" is the not universally understood term.

.
In the context of a presidential election, yes, it is.
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:25 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
It's a different ball game when you are a politician.

I actually understood that he doesn't like CNN in that interview. A true politician would never have given away so much information in an interview. They know that every word they utter is potentially a weapon for their opponents.
The interest here isn't whether he speaks strategically. It is whether he speaks coherently at all. This is both in terms of syntax (the man cannot utter a sentence even approaching grammatical correctness and coherence) and in terms of the broader picture (in a short snippet of interview, he both confirms and denies watching CNN in one breath).

You're pretending that we're talking about how he fails to respond like a seasoned politician, when in fact we're talking about inability to speak like an adult and the appearance of an addled mind.
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:25 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
The man's been on the national stage for ages. There's no excuse for the way he just throws words around like this.
Sure there is. I can think of at least two, offhand.

But it's funny how "talks like a politician" is suddenly a positive character trait--just in time to determine Trump doesn't have it.
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:26 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sure there is. I can think of at least two, offhand.

But it's funny how "talks like a politician" is suddenly a positive character trait--just in time to determine Trump doesn't have it.
No, speaking like an adult capable of clear reasoning is a positive character trait.

This isn't about the ability to dishonestly deflect a question.
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:28 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
This isn't about the ability to dishonestly deflect a question.
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:29 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Not to the point where you can't make complete sentences.

The man's been on the national stage for ages. There's no excuse for the way he just throws words around like this.
Answered by the part of the post that you didn't quote.
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:31 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Speaking of expressing a coherent thought, if you have something to say, please try words. I'm not so good at animated GIFs.
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:33 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
How is that better than interweaving three sentences into one? Give Trump his due, man.


Just tried reading the annotated AP interview with Trump at
The Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.c6bee54cf503

That is some kinda talent, there.
Interweaving three sentences into one.
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:34 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sure there is. I can think of at least two, offhand.

But it's funny how "talks like a politician" is suddenly a positive character trait--just in time to determine Trump doesn't have it.
What are the two excuses you can think of?
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:42 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sure there is. I can think of at least two, offhand.
I'm listening.
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:44 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Answered by the part of the post that you didn't quote.
No it wasn't. In fact, it has nothing to do with the part I did quote. That's why I didn't include it. But boy, do posters love to point out that parts of their posts weren't quoted. What an affront, right?

How does this:

Quote:
I actually understood that he doesn't like CNN in that interview. A true politician would never have given away so much information in an interview. They know that every word they utter is potentially a weapon for their opponents.
...explain why he's incoherent?
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:44 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Speaking of expressing a coherent thought, if you have something to say, please try words. I'm not so good at animated GIFs.
Affectation of ignorance ("I don't understand you therefore you must be talking nonsense") is one of the ways you can dishonestly deflect a question. Good politicians know all the tricks.

Actually, I have known of a number of politicians who didn't appear to talk well in interviews. Some stuttered, some swore, some had nervous ticks etc. They provided great fodder for stand up comedians but some had very successful careers. So Trump botching an interview doesn't really prove anything one way or another.
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:46 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
How does this:



...explain why he's incoherent?
Is that what I was supposed to be explaining?
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:49 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Affectation of ignorance ("I don't understand you therefore you must be talking nonsense") is one of the ways you can dishonestly deflect a question. Good politicians know all the tricks.

Actually, I have known of a number of politicians who didn't appear to talk well in interviews. Some stuttered, some swore, some had nervous ticks etc. They provided great fodder for stand up comedians but some had very successful careers. So Trump botching an interview doesn't really prove anything one way or another.
I never claimed it was a sign of mental illness. (I used the term "addled" in a purely informal sense. )

It's clear that Trump is an exceptionally poor speaker. Maybe that's a strategy or maybe just a liability. I tend to think the latter.
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Old 24th April 2017, 07:56 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
He should be congratulated for his syphilis.
It can't be syphilis.

Remember, Trump's "Personal Vietnam" was his ability to avoid STDs in the 70s.

http://people.com/politics/trump-boa...sonal-vietnam/

“It’s amazing, I can’t even believe it. I’ve been so lucky in terms of that whole world, it is a dangerous world out there. It’s like Vietnam, sort of. It is my personal Vietnam. I feel like a great and very brave solider,” Trump said in the interview when Howard Stern asked how he handled making sure he wasn’t contracting STDs from the women he was sleeping with. The business-mogul-turned-politician elaborated on the fact in the interview, calling women’s vaginas “potential landmines” and saying “there’s some real danger there.”
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Old 24th April 2017, 08:00 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
Is that what I was supposed to be explaining?
Well, yes. That is what we are discussing here.

You said this:

Quote:
I actually understood that he doesn't like CNN in that interview. A true politician would never have given away so much information in an interview. They know that every word they utter is potentially a weapon for their opponents.
Answers this:

Quote:
Not to the point where you can't make complete sentences.

The man's been on the national stage for ages. There's no excuse for the way he just throws words around like this.
Explain.
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Old 24th April 2017, 08:02 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
“It’s amazing, I can’t even believe it. I’ve been so lucky in terms of that whole world, it is a dangerous world out there. It’s like Vietnam, sort of. It is my personal Vietnam. I feel like a great and very brave solider,” Trump said in the interview when Howard Stern asked how he handled making sure he wasn’t contracting STDs from the women he was sleeping with. The business-mogul-turned-politician elaborated on the fact in the interview, calling women’s vaginas “potential landmines” and saying “there’s some real danger there.”
Well, he hasn't become _less_ coherent, at least.
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Old 24th April 2017, 09:25 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Explain.
What's to explain? Clarity of speech is a desirable trait except in politics where the opposite is the case.

There is no question that Trump didn't talk very well in the interview but his problem was making his views on CNN and MSNBC known too clearly.
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Old 24th April 2017, 09:27 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
What's to explain? Clarity of speech is a desirable trait except in politics where the opposite is the case.
Yeah but this isn't your standard political speech, where you remain rather vague or maintain plausible deniability. We're talking about a man who just cannot speak for lengths of time in a way that is coherent unless he has a teleprompter.

Say what you will about Obama but he never had that problem. Trump sounds more like Palin.
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Old 24th April 2017, 09:33 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Yeah but this isn't your standard political speech, where you remain rather vague or maintain plausible deniability. We're talking about a man who just cannot speak for lengths of time in a way that is coherent unless he has a teleprompter.

Say what you will about Obama but he never had that problem. Trump sounds more like Palin.
I have already discussed poor political speakers above. Sometimes it is a liability and sometimes it has no effect on their ability to get things done. In a few cases (though definitely not in Trump's case) a quirky manner of speaking can even endear a politician to the voters.

At the end of the day, it is what happens when the mike is switched off that matters most.
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Old 24th April 2017, 09:42 AM   #159
phiwum
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I have already discussed poor political speakers above. Sometimes it is a liability and sometimes it has no effect on their ability to get things done. In a few cases (though definitely not in Trump's case) a quirky manner of speaking can even endear a politician to the voters.

At the end of the day, it is what happens when the mike is switched off that matters most.
I am reminded of the old SNL Reagan Mastermind skit, for some reason.
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Old 24th April 2017, 09:43 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by psionl0 View Post
I have already discussed poor political speakers above. Sometimes it is a liability and sometimes it has no effect on their ability to get things done. In a few cases (though definitely not in Trump's case) a quirky manner of speaking can even endear a politician to the voters.

At the end of the day, it is what happens when the mike is switched off that matters most.
...so you in fact agree that he's a poor speaker. The only thing you disagree with then is the implication that it makes him insane, which is not a claim I've made.
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