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Tags Amanda Knox , Italy cases , Meredith Kercher , murder cases , Raffaele Sollecito

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Old 30th July 2017, 11:28 PM   #81
Vixen
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I see you didn't bother to read the article as Knox did not refer to herself as a "kid" in it. She said "'I went into prison as not yet a woman and I came out an adult woman and that period defined me." But, yes, she has referred to herself as a "girl" or "kid" when she went to Perugia in 2007. And she was. Legally and physically she was an adult, but for you to nitpick about her being a "kid" at barely 20 is just yet another example of a need to disparage her at every opportunity. I look back at myself at 20 and know I was emotionally still a "kid" who thought she was a mature adult. My life, like Amanda's, had consisted of going to school, odd jobs, and a life sheltered by a loving family. Neither of us was a mature woman.

Please cite your source for your quote "'the Black guys call me their "little baby girl". Amanda is not responsible for what other people call her.

Regarding her "Red Riding Hood" pictures, why do you have such a problem with a few fantasy pictures with her boyfriend while vacationing in Germany? Is everyone who takes these kinds of fun photos to be disparaged or only Knox?

Please stop diagnosing Knox as a "psychopath" as she has not been diagnosed as such nor does she meet the criteria. Oh, wait... I forgot she was diagnosed as a psychopath by a recent college grad who falsely paraded herself as a psychologist on TJMK. Quennell and others on TJMK embraced and lauded "Miss Represented". They ended up with egg on their faces when she was exposed as a complete and utter liar.
Why are you telling me? It is absolute rubbish to say a twenty-year old adult is 'just a child'.

If that applies to Knox, it ipso facto applies to Rudy, as he is the same age!


Raff was a fully grown 23-year old.


The pair already had five years lopped off their sentence because of their age.

They were not juveniles, they are not 'kids', they were not 'kidnapped'; none of the Black ex-cons call her 'our little baby girl' . (If they do it was probably a tactful response to her flirting with them).

The person who caused pain to her family was Amanda herself. When will this emotionally retarded person take responsibiltiy for her own actions instead of blaming innocent prison doctors, her age, the drugs, sexism, Italy, catholics, the victim's family and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all.
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Old 30th July 2017, 11:34 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
If that were the case then why did Cheffi annul Hellmann and why did Nencini convict them - all while Amanda was already back home in the USA. Do you ever think before you comment?
Cheiffi, Massei and Nencini were honest bananas.
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Old 30th July 2017, 11:38 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Not quite true is it? Peter Gill is quoted extensively in Raff's appeal to Fifth Chambers.

We have all these obsessive PIP internet weirdos who want to reinvent the truth and infantalise a 30 year old woman and idolise anyone who takes up their cause, including two people who had their sentences commuted as cop killers. We have people justifying Jacobs buying a cop killer his guns.
I'm not quite sure Peter Gill even knew about the case when Raff was declared innocent and set free in 2011 after a year long trial featuring neutral court appointed forensic professors from Italy's top university.

Please note I don't give a **** about anything that happened after that with regards to "the official case" since that was the end of it from a rule of law standpoint.

I also don't care in the least what Amanda is up to or doing today. It pains me to think that some cluster of neurons in my brain will go to storing such useless information against my will.
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Old 30th July 2017, 11:43 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by bagels View Post
I'm not quite sure Peter Gill even knew about the case when Raff was declared innocent and set free in 2011 after a year long trial featuring neutral court appointed forensic professors from Italy's top university.

Please note I don't give a **** about anything that happened after that with regards to "the official case" since that was the end of it from a rule of law standpoint.

I also don't care in the least what Amanda is up to or doing today. It pains me to think that some cluster of neurons in my brain will go to storing such useless information against my will.
As he says in his book, he came to this case via Conti & Vecchiotti.

Vecchiotti as you know is a rogue.
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Old 30th July 2017, 11:47 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As he says in his book, he came to this case via Conti & Vecchiotti.

Vecchiotti as you know is a rogue.
It's weird that in a country where every 3rd judge is corrupt, and every other professor a quack, the police and prosecutors are a shining beacon of integrity.

Just lol at the PGP.
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Old 31st July 2017, 12:15 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Why does this woman constantly seek publicity? Why does she fill our papers with fake news?
I was going to ask both these questions about you!
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Old 31st July 2017, 12:21 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Why are you telling me? It is absolute rubbish to say a twenty-year old adult is 'just a child'.

If that applies to Knox, it ipso facto applies to Rudy, as he is the same age!


Raff was a fully grown 23-year old.


The pair already had five years lopped off their sentence because of their age.

They were not juveniles, they are not 'kids', they were not 'kidnapped'; none of the Black ex-cons call her 'our little baby girl' . (If they do it was probably a tactful response to her flirting with them).

The person who caused pain to her family was Amanda herself. When will this emotionally retarded person take responsibiltiy for her own actions instead of blaming innocent prison doctors, her age, the drugs, sexism, Italy, catholics, the victim's family and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all.
This is a perfect example of what many exonerees have to endure, when virtual strangers slander them and their families.

Knox made mention of this to the last bar association she addressed. Imagine someone who'd heard Kmox claim this, who then surfed around the 'net for proof.

Then they read Vixen's campaign.....
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Old 31st July 2017, 12:24 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The gaping difference between the Molseed case and this one is that Knox and Sollecito have not been exonerated.
The gaping difference is that neither Sollicito nor Knox were ever convicted of murder, they spent four years in preventative detention before the verdict of not guilty was returned. The Italian legal system / constitution is clear; until final conviction people are innocent, since there was no final conviction for murder the legal status of Sollito and Knox is that they are and always were innocent. Someone who was always legally innocent cannot be exonerated.

I do have to side with the case that Knox is not strictly an exoneree, because of the inadequacies of the Italian legal system two innocent people were imprisoned for a murder they did not commit.
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Old 31st July 2017, 12:31 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As he says in his book, he came to this case via Conti & Vecchiotti.

Vecchiotti as you know is a rogue.
Why add "as you know"? I'll bet you a fiver that bagels, in fact, does mot know this.
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Old 31st July 2017, 07:10 AM   #90
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As he says in his book, he came to this case via Conti & Vecchiotti.

Vecchiotti as you know is a rogue.
he came to this case via Conti & Vecchiotti

So? This is a meaningless comment without the actual citation. What it probably means is that he read both Conti-Vecchiotti's report and compared it with Stefanoni's trial testimony and immediately saw Stefanoni's fraudulent work.

So your post is yet another example of what exonerees face with on-line campaigns against them, when such campaigns never level anything of substance.
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Old 31st July 2017, 07:19 AM   #91
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For anyone actually interested in what Dr. Peter Gill actually wrote about this case, here's his July 2016 journal article in:

Forensic Science International: Genetics
Analysis and implications of the miscarriages of justice of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito
Peter Gill (a,b)
a - Norwegian Institute of Public Health, Department of Forensic Biology, PO Box 4404 Nydalen, 0403 Oslo, Norway
b - Department of Forensic Medicine, Sognsvannsveien 20, Rikshospitalet, 0372 Oslo, Norway
http://www.fsigenetics.com/article/S...16)30033-3/pdf
Quote:
It is accepted that the DNA profiles attributed to them were
transferred by methods unrelated to the crime event itself. There is a wealth of material available from
the judgements and other reports which can be analysed in order to show the errors of thinking. The final
judgement of the case–the Marasca-Bruno motivation report–exposes the illogicality of much of the
previous court proceedings that led to the convictions and provides useful guidance for judges to follow.
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Old 31st July 2017, 07:41 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Cheiffi, Massei and Nencini were honest bananas.
Keep digging Vixen.

You said Nencini was annulled because of;

Originally Posted by Vixen
Political reasons.

The Italians didn't want to see their boy serve life whilst the person found guilty of the actual killing roams free in the USA.
So why was the will of "the Italians" not served by Chieffi and Nencini?
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Old 31st July 2017, 07:48 AM   #93
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The gaping difference between the Molseed case and this one is that Knox and Sollecito have not been exonerated.

Ah good - you've completely ignored/missed the point yet again.

I'll spell it out once more:

The court in Kiszko's first trial (a trial of facts) is a vivid and unequivocal example of a court getting the verdict wrong (it's a logical impossibility that the court could correctly have found evidence proving Kiszko's guilt BARD, since we now know that Kiszko factually had nothing to do with the murder).

And this example therefore immediately challenges/refutes your "argument" that the fact that the Massei and Nencini courts found for the guilt BARD of Knox and Sollecito (in respect of the murder-related charges) somehow necessarily shows that Knox and Sollecito factually participated in the murder.

I'll reinforce the point once again:

COURTS PRODUCE INCORRECT VERDICTS (sometimes, not all that often thankfully, but it does happen)

Unfortunately for Italy, which has a broken and unfit-for-purpose criminal justice system, the evidence clearly shows that the courts get it wrong far, far more often than in countries with more advanced and fair criminal justice systems. And the Massei and Nencini courts got it wrong in respect of Knox and Sollecito and their murder charges.
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Old 31st July 2017, 08:28 AM   #94
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This is for the next time Vixen blindly repeats that it is factual that Knox rubbed Meredith's blood from her hands. Rather than this canard being somehow definitive......

.... Dr. Peter Gill, in his journal article (above) cites the claim as one of the, "critical errors that ultimately led to the wrongful convictions of Knox and Sollecito."
Quote:
10. Summary of the critical errors that ultimately led to the wrongful convictions of Knox and Sollecito
.......................
7) The assumption that the DNA mixtures of Knox/Kercher in the
bathroom, was evidence that she had washed blood from her
hands directly after the murder.
Apparently, Gill had actually read the Massei report, from which this assumption comes. In short, there is no forensic evidence that this action actually happened, as even Judge Massei had written in 2010.

So to summarize the list of the chief forensic-DNA reasons why Sollecito and Knox had been wrongfully convicted, Gill blows the whistle on the evidence-less assumptions previous courts had made.

So - who are we in this thread to believe? Peter Gill? Or Vixen who has yet to provide one citation in support of Scientific Police's Stefanoni's original work? I believe it has been about a year since Vixen was first asked to provide that.....

...... but instead, Vixen posts stuff which prove an exoneree's claim that one of the difficulties of being exonerated is the on-line slander campaign which continues.
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Old 31st July 2017, 10:04 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Not quite true is it? Peter Gill is quoted extensively in Raff's appeal to Fifth Chambers.

We have all these obsessive PIP internet weirdos who want to reinvent the truth and infantalise a 30 year old woman and idolise anyone who takes up their cause, including two people who had their sentences commuted as cop killers. We have people justifying Jacobs buying a cop killer his guns.
"Reinventing the truth"? Might I refer you to the extensive list of proven falsehoods you have made that was recently provided by Welshman?

No one is "infantilizing" a 30 year old woman, but nice try. What is being said is that Knox at 20 (not 30) was not a mature adult. Medical science supports this. Brains don't mature until around the age of 25 which is why young adults (you know... 18-25ish) are notorious for behaving in impulsive, immature, and irresponsible ways. It's why most car rental companies won't rent to under 25 yr olds and, until relatively recently, the age of adulthood was 21. But if you need to believe a 20 year old was a mature adult to fit your bias, have at it.

Another example of "reinventing the truth" is your claim that people are "justifying Jacobs buying a cop killer his guns". Please provide a quote from me, or anyone, doing so.
That Jacobs legally bought and registered a gun/guns in her name because her husband, as a felon, could not is not a justification. It is a fact.

Now, as to whether Jacobs and Pringle were "cop killers" is not supported by the evidence which is why they were eventually released. But why bother to go over that yet again? Some people cannot admit wrongful convictions occur, especially if they have any connection to Knox whatsoever. That, in itself, is all it takes.
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Old 31st July 2017, 10:28 AM   #96
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Why does this woman constantly seek publicity? Why does she fill our papers with fake news?
Fake news? Donald, is that you?
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Old 31st July 2017, 11:23 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Why are you telling me? It is absolute rubbish to say a twenty-year old adult is 'just a child'.

If that applies to Knox, it ipso facto applies to Rudy, as he is the same age!
Guede was impulsive, immature and made very bad decisions as is evidenced by his behavior and choices up to, and including, the murder. Thanks for proving my point about many young adults' immaturity. It seems he has also matured while in prison and even earned his college degree. But he is still a convicted murderer unlike Knox or Sollecito.


Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
Raff was a fully grown 23-year old.
I never mentioned Sollecito regarding age. We were discussing Knox.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The pair already had five years lopped off their sentence because of their age.
So by the court "lopping of 5 years for their age", they were also acknowledging their youth and immaturity. Thanks for pointing that out.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
They were not juveniles, they are not 'kids', they were not 'kidnapped'; none of the Black ex-cons call her 'our little baby girl' . (If they do it was probably a tactful response to her flirting with them).
No one said they were "juveniles". I never said Sollecito was a "kid"...but you have. On many occasions you have referred to them both as "the kids". Would you like me to provide your quotes? I can.

Knox and Sollecito never said they were "kidnapped"; that was Samson's word. I don't believe he is a native English speaker so his use of the word may not have been the best choice.

As for what the black exonerees (not "ex-cons") call her, you have no idea so why pretend you do? I see the need to disparage Knox at all costs extends to making up stories of her "flirting with them". As pointed out before, making up this kind of thing does more harm than good to your credibility.

Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
The person who caused pain to her family was Amanda herself. When will this emotionally retarded person take responsibiltiy for her own actions instead of blaming innocent prison doctors, her age, the drugs, sexism, Italy, catholics, the victim's family and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all.
I refer you to the Supreme Court who clearly pointed out the prosecutor had presented a “flawed and hastily constructed” case against Knox (and Sollecito) and that the path the case took was “objectively wavering, whose oscillations are ... the result also of stunning weakness or investigative bouts of amnesia and of blameworthy omissions of investigative activity”.
May I also point out the police's abject failure to record the interrogations and failure to provide Knox or Sollecito with a lawyer as required by law?

Why don't you tell us all again how this was all Amanda's fault?
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Old 31st July 2017, 11:41 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
As he says in his book, he came to this case via Conti & Vecchiotti.

Vecchiotti as you know is a rogue.
The same book where he said DNA doesn't transfer after 24 hours? Oh, wait...

Speaking of which, here is what Gill has to say about DNA transfer in an interview:

Quote:
There is one case I can allude to, which is the case of Adam Scott, which is quite a notorious case here in the UK. A man was accused of a rape, because his DNA profile was obtained from the swabs – the vaginal swabs, and it matched a man who was some hundreds of kilometres away from the crime scene. And he denied ever having been in the place in his life. The evidence was the DNA profile. He was arrested and incarcerated for about six months, and all the time he was protesting his innocence. Luckily for him it came to light that there had been a contamination event in the actual laboratory. His DNA profile had actually been submitted to the same laboratory a couple of weeks previously, and his DNA profile from that particular event from saliva, was transmitted into the casework analysis for the second system. So of course he came up positive for this particular case, but his DNA had actually been transferred from a previous event.
(Transcript of Professor Peter Gill’s interview on Italian documentary, Delitti & Misteri, January 29, 2015. The documentary was produced by Francesco Mura and aired on Retecapri.)

Note that the secondary transfer of Scott's DNA occurred after two weeks...just a tad bit longer than 24 hours.
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Old 31st July 2017, 11:48 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
As for what the black exonerees (not "ex-cons") call her, you have no idea so why pretend you do? I see the need to disparage Knox at all costs extends to making up stories of her "flirting with them". As pointed out before, making up this kind of thing does more harm than good to your credibility.
Many months ago (in my opinion) Vixen went on a slut-shaming bout of posts about which she was criticized. If nothing else, all Vixen was doing - two years after the exoneration no less - was reaching back to what original prosecutors had to do.....

..... when there's a lack of evidence, ramp up the emotive stuff.

But to her credit, Vixen backed off the slut-shaming. At the time it was reminiscent of what Peggy Ganong had done (as moderator) on the now defunct PMF website.

Peggy was no stranger to vilifying Knox - but the only time I had ever, ever seen Peggy discipline a guilter for their undue excess against Knox, was when that guilter had called Knox a slut. Peggy was having none of it and did a one-time moderation surrounding the use of that singular word.

With Vixen, though, the post you refer to is her putting her big toe back into the slut-shaming water to see if anyone will point it out again. My opinion only.

As it relates to the "Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito" (the title of this thread) the undue sexualization of Knox and to a far lesser extent Sollecito was part of the miscarriage of justice....

.... and was, as you say Stacyhs, completely irrelevant anyway to the crime itself - where the evidence (remember that!) points in one direction; Rudy Guede. Remember him?

Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
I refer you to the Supreme Court who clearly pointed out the prosecutor had presented a “flawed and hastily constructed” case against Knox (and Sollecito) and that the path the case took was “objectively wavering, whose oscillations are ... the result also of stunning weakness or investigative bouts of amnesia and of blameworthy omissions of investigative activity”.

May I also point out the police's abject failure to record the interrogations and failure to provide Knox or Sollecito with a lawyer as required by law?

Why don't you tell us all again how this was all Amanda's fault?
This is reminiscent of how guilters - the ones who are left anyway - try even to blame Knox for what they seriously contend was her manipulation of police at her interrogation(s). Once again the bleeding obvious - the police and prosecutor were required to record/videotape them, so that those of us way up in the bleachers wouldn't need to be arguing about it almost 10 years later!

I suppose that is Knox's fault, too!

Here's a test to the most sincere guilter - take the fire out of your belly that pushes you to blame Knox for everything. Put it aside for five minutes. Don't worry, no one will take it, you can have it back if you wish.

But put it aside and look at the evidence. I know, I know, why would anyone do that!?
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Old 31st July 2017, 11:51 AM   #100
Stacyhs
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Originally Posted by bagels View Post
It's weird that in a country where every 3rd judge is corrupt, and every other professor a quack, the police and prosecutors are a shining beacon of integrity.

Just lol at the PGP.
I wonder of Sapienza Univ. knows they're harboring a "rogue" in their very midst? One can only assume her position there was gained through pressure from the US State Dept.
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Old 31st July 2017, 11:59 AM   #101
TruthCalls
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The same book where he said DNA doesn't transfer after 24 hours? Oh, wait...

Speaking of which, here is what Gill has to say about DNA transfer in an interview:


(Transcript of Professor Peter Gill’s interview on Italian documentary, Delitti & Misteri, January 29, 2015. The documentary was produced by Francesco Mura and aired on Retecapri.)

Note that the secondary transfer of Scott's DNA occurred after two weeks...just a tad bit longer than 24 hours.
A couple of weeks back Chris posted an article discussing a case of secondary transfer that occurred more than two years after the DNA was originally deposited. Now THAT'S a tab bit longer than 24 hours. But what's the point of presenting facts when dealing with someone who willfully disregards facts that contradict the BS they're pedaling?
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Old 31st July 2017, 12:13 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
A couple of weeks back Chris posted an article discussing a case of secondary transfer that occurred more than two years after the DNA was originally deposited. Now THAT'S a tab bit longer than 24 hours. But what's the point of presenting facts when dealing with someone who willfully disregards facts that contradict the BS they're pedaling?
We have enough to publish a book of PGP falsehoods:

"Reinventing the Facts" by the TJMK Main Contributors and TMofMK
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Old 1st August 2017, 04:30 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
We have enough to publish a book of PGP falsehoods:

"Reinventing the Facts" by the TJMK Main Contributors and TMofMK
In fairness to the remaining PGP, little of what they advance which is false started out that way. What they advance is the almosr-decade old stuff that the original prosecution advanced, stuff claimed as true with no actual evidence cited to substantiate it.

Sadly for the remaining PGP in 2017 - more than 2 years **after** the exonerations - it seems like all those original factoids have, in fact, been "reinterpreted".

Why? Because that's exactly what has happened, indeed they have been reinterpreted; except the way I'd put it is that those original factoids have been exposed for what they are and always have been.

Evidenceless assertions of a prosecutor which magically become unassailable "judicial truths" of a court. As we have seen as multiple trials tried to navigate this, even acquitting courts felt themselves bound by judicial truths, even while often pointing out the original lack of evidence of the now binding assertion.

So - in the hands of those who owned the field until Oct 2011, they are quite correct to claim that the facts have been reinvented.......

..... except what is being "reinvented" is the judicial outcome when those facts are put in proper perspective. The final Italian Supreme Court panel put it in the persective of, as they wrote, that even if all that original stuff had been true, it still does not overcome one unassailable reality.

In this case, the "facts" need to always be set next to the one unassailable fact of no forensic presence of the pair in the murder room. None.

That's the one fact which a believer in guilt cannot circumvent. So in a sense, I feel their pain for no longer owning the field.
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Old 1st August 2017, 05:47 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
The same book where he said DNA doesn't transfer after 24 hours? Oh, wait...

Speaking of which, here is what Gill has to say about DNA transfer in an interview:


(Transcript of Professor Peter Gill’s interview on Italian documentary, Delitti & Misteri, January 29, 2015. The documentary was produced by Francesco Mura and aired on Retecapri.)

Note that the secondary transfer of Scott's DNA occurred after two weeks...just a tad bit longer than 24 hours.

But you are claiming tertiary transfer of a strong RFU and full profile DNA.
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Old 1st August 2017, 05:49 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Many months ago (in my opinion) Vixen went on a slut-shaming bout of posts about which she was criticized. If nothing else, all Vixen was doing - two years after the exoneration no less - was reaching back to what original prosecutors had to do.....

..... when there's a lack of evidence, ramp up the emotive stuff.

But to her credit, Vixen backed off the slut-shaming. At the time it was reminiscent of what Peggy Ganong had done (as moderator) on the now defunct PMF website.

Peggy was no stranger to vilifying Knox - but the only time I had ever, ever seen Peggy discipline a guilter for their undue excess against Knox, was when that guilter had called Knox a slut. Peggy was having none of it and did a one-time moderation surrounding the use of that singular word.

With Vixen, though, the post you refer to is her putting her big toe back into the slut-shaming water to see if anyone will point it out again. My opinion only.

As it relates to the "Trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito" (the title of this thread) the undue sexualization of Knox and to a far lesser extent Sollecito was part of the miscarriage of justice....

.... and was, as you say Stacyhs, completely irrelevant anyway to the crime itself - where the evidence (remember that!) points in one direction; Rudy Guede. Remember him?



This is reminiscent of how guilters - the ones who are left anyway - try even to blame Knox for what they seriously contend was her manipulation of police at her interrogation(s). Once again the bleeding obvious - the police and prosecutor were required to record/videotape them, so that those of us way up in the bleachers wouldn't need to be arguing about it almost 10 years later!

I suppose that is Knox's fault, too!

Here's a test to the most sincere guilter - take the fire out of your belly that pushes you to blame Knox for everything. Put it aside for five minutes. Don't worry, no one will take it, you can have it back if you wish.

But put it aside and look at the evidence. I know, I know, why would anyone do that!?

I don't 'slut shame'. I couldn't give a toss about the pair's personal details.

Knox herself keeps portraying herself as a rampant nymphomaniac who invented sex. <fx YAWN>
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Old 1st August 2017, 06:24 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I don't 'slut shame'. I couldn't give a toss about the pair's personal details.

Knox herself keeps portraying herself as a rampant nymphomaniac who invented sex. <fx YAWN>
It is evident you do not read what you write.

This post is a classic!
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Old 1st August 2017, 06:24 AM   #107
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negative controls that turn out positive

The Adam Scott case is also of interest in that there had been a contaminated negative control that had been observed in the lab at about that time. IIRC this was not disclosed immediately. Regrettably, this is not the only time in which the finding of DNA in a negative control was not disclosed (Leiterman and Avery come to mind). This is why open discovery is so important.
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Old 1st August 2017, 08:23 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I don't 'slut shame'. I couldn't give a toss about the pair's personal details.

Knox herself keeps portraying herself as a rampant nymphomaniac who invented sex. <fx YAWN>
Consider this:

Knox told the 500+ people at the Westside Bar Association that slut-shaming played a role in her wrongful conviction.

Perhaps a healthy portion of those people later on fired up their iPads and laptops to scour the 'net for what is what with that claim. They run across TJMK as well as some of the more bizarre stuff on .PMF these days.

And here? They run across a poster who first claims that she, herself, does not slut-shame, who then says in the very next breath:
Knox herself keeps portraying herself as a rampant nymphomaniac who invented sex. <fx YAWN>
I'll let you in on a secret. Most of those people could not care less if some random Seattleite is or isn't a "rampant nymphomaniac". Who on earth cares about that? All of those people have never heard Knox describe herself as a raving-anything, so right off the bat you're trying to shoehorn a concept into their experience of her that does not include what you're claiming.

What they are looking for is if there was, as the first prosecutor had said, a sexual angle to this crime. The crime, Vixen, the crime.

When Knox then claims that there had been no actual evidence to support her original conviction in front of these people, and further suggests that "slut shaming" was substituted for actual evidence......

..... and they then come over here and read you describing her as a "rampant nymphomaniac", it's not so much that that is slut-shaming per se against a person whom you've never met.....

.... here's the thing.....

.... you have not connected that to the crime! Are you saying that the Nencini court's conviction, now annulled, was wrong when it said the motive for murder was rent money and an argument between Meredith and Amanda? There's nothing slutty about an old fashioned argument about money! (Even if the sole source of that story was Rudy Guede, the real murderer!)

I would suspect that those people fresh from hearing Knox claim slut-shaming as a reason for a wrongful conviction, would come over here and say, "I see what she means!"

Either that or posters here are looking for any excuse to use the word "nymphomaniac" in a sentence for their own internal reasons, the reasons of which are no one's business either.

That's the deal, Vixen. It's about the way slut-shaming was used as a substitute for actual evidence! You never get that.
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Old 1st August 2017, 08:48 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
But you are claiming tertiary transfer of a strong RFU and full profile DNA.
You continue to fail to understand the burden of proof and who has to prove what. Nobody here is making a claim. The prosecution is the one making the claim. Their claim is in spite of the crime scene, witness reports, camera evidence, and the perps own unassisted confession all demonstrating that the crime was just about certainly a burglary gone bad homicide committed by a known knife carrying criminal - we should invent an alternative scenario where he is merely the pawn accomplice to two students he has no connection to and never communicated with (and indeed spoke a different language than) because just before the police had to cut the student loose for a complete lack of evidence from their initially wrong theory, they miraculously turned up a bra clasp they allegedly didn't collect the first time around and it allegedly had their key suspects DNA on it before being conveniently destroyed before anyone outside the prosecution team could examine it.

It didn't convince anyone but the shedevil obsessors who already think the way AK breathes is incriminating. That's why the case didn't survive past the first stage and Amanda has been freed for going on six years now, and all our posts have been academic.
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Old 1st August 2017, 08:49 AM   #110
NotEvenWrong
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
And here? They run across a poster who first claims that she, herself, does not slut-shame, who then says in the very next breath:
Knox herself keeps portraying herself as a rampant nymphomaniac who invented sex. <fx YAWN>
I have noticed that PGP have trouble integrating information, and therefore are not able to stay consistent in their claims and arguments.

Someone saying they do not slut-shame, and then in the very next sentence claiming Amanda portrays herself as a rampant nymphomaniac may be a good example of this lol.

Is it any wonder why they still cannot figure this case out after 8 years?
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Old 1st August 2017, 08:59 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by NotEvenWrong View Post
I have noticed that PGP have trouble integrating information, and therefore are not able to stay consistent in their claims and arguments.

Someone saying they do not slut-shame, and then in the very next sentence claiming Amanda portrays herself as a rampant nymphomaniac may be a good example of this lol.

Is it any wonder why they still cannot figure this case out after 8 years?
I've had it put to me, "It's not slut-shaming if it is true."

The answer to that is - "who on earth cares if it is true!?" I can only repeat, is the slut-shamer then claiming that Mignini was right when he advanced the motive for this crime as a "sex-game gone wrong"? Remember also that when the 2013 Supreme Court overturned the first acquittals, they did it (in part) because the "sex-game gone wrong" motive had not been explored enough at the lower-court.

And then the new, lower Court court, the 2013-2014 Nencini court proceeded to ignore that as a motive, and substituted its own - for some equally inexplicable reason they decided to believe Rudy Guede, who was the sole source of the "rent money" motive.

One develops over time the suspicion that there are some posters to internet threads who enjoy using words like "nymphomaniac" in a sentence, applying it to people they've never met. The suspicion comes from the inability - eventually they give up trying - to connect that lurid claim to the crime.
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Old 1st August 2017, 09:16 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
One develops over time the suspicion that there are some posters to internet threads who enjoy using words like "nymphomaniac" in a sentence, applying it to people they've never met. The suspicion comes from the inability - eventually they give up trying - to connect that lurid claim to the crime.
One does have to wonder if their repeated use of terms like "nymphomaniac" stems from some underlying psychology of their own. Let's put it this way -- I have never seen anyone obsess over someone's sexual history unless they have some underlying issue. Speaking in hypotheticals, of course.

Unless they can somehow provide actual evidence of Amanda being a "nymphomaniac" and connect it in some way to the alleged pagan sex game murder (that uh, has been proven to not have occurred. So that one may be tough.) Then it may look like a legitimate topic of discussion and not some filthy personal attack. Not holding my breath on that though.
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Old 1st August 2017, 09:31 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
But you are claiming tertiary transfer of a strong RFU and full profile DNA.
Sigh. May I remind you that we can still see what was previously posted? Your claim was this:

Quote:
Peter Gill says secondary transfer can only take place within 24 hours, so we all await your reply with interest as Raff's DNA must have been on the door frame six weeks.
Note that your claim was about secondary transfer, not tertiary. You failed to provide a quote from Gill saying any such thing. On the other hand, I provided a statement from Gill discussing an actual case where secondary transfer was proved after 2 weeks. We're going to need binoculars soon to see that goalpost you keep moving. Why don't you just admit Gill never said what you claim and that secondary transfer can happen, and has happened, even years later? And if secondary transfer can occur after that long, why not tertiary? Or will you claim again that tertiary transfer doesn't happen?

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Old 1st August 2017, 09:37 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Vixen View Post
I don't 'slut shame'. I couldn't give a toss about the pair's personal details.

Knox herself keeps portraying herself as a rampant nymphomaniac who invented sex. <fx YAWN>
Classic. Just classic.

Others have already pointed out what is wrong with your post, but may I ask exactly how you think Knox portrayed herself as a "rampant nymphomaniac who invented sex"? I'd ask you for some actual quotes or incidents where Knox does this, but I know better. I'd just like to know how you came up with this idea. The psychology fascinates me.
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Old 1st August 2017, 11:15 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by NotEvenWrong View Post
I have noticed that PGP have trouble integrating information, and therefore are not able to stay consistent in their claims and arguments.

Someone saying they do not slut-shame, and then in the very next sentence claiming Amanda portrays herself as a rampant nymphomaniac may be a good example of this lol.

Is it any wonder why they still cannot figure this case out after 8 years?
Kinda like when Vixen claims the M/B decision was political because...

"The Italians didn't want to see their boy serve life whilst the person found guilty of the actual killing roams free in the USA. "

Even though the two courts that preceded M/B did everything they could to convict Raffaele, all while Amanda was home in the USA. Doh!
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Old 1st August 2017, 11:26 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by bagels View Post
You continue to fail to understand the burden of proof and who has to prove what. Nobody here is making a claim. The prosecution is the one making the claim. Their claim is in spite of the crime scene, witness reports, camera evidence, and the perps own unassisted confession all demonstrating that the crime was just about certainly a burglary gone bad homicide committed by a known knife carrying criminal - we should invent an alternative scenario where he is merely the pawn accomplice to two students he has no connection to and never communicated with (and indeed spoke a different language than) because just before the police had to cut the student loose for a complete lack of evidence from their initially wrong theory, they miraculously turned up a bra clasp they allegedly didn't collect the first time around and it allegedly had their key suspects DNA on it before being conveniently destroyed before anyone outside the prosecution team could examine it.

It didn't convince anyone but the shedevil obsessors who already think the way AK breathes is incriminating. That's why the case didn't survive past the first stage and Amanda has been freed for going on six years now, and all our posts have been academic.
Bagels, if I've not mentioned it before, I really enjoy your way with words!

I've always had trouble trying to envision subsequent visits to the cottage by the police, SP and others, all walking around or over a severed bra clasp left at the scene of a sexual assault murder and none of them thinking it just might be important to collect and test it. I really wish some photos or video of Meredith's room were available from after the initial investigation and prior to 18 December. I still think it's entirely possible it was collected, tested and then surreptitiously returned so it could be collected again, this time with a trace of Raffaele's DNA on it. I don't say this because I'm convinced the police actively framed Raffaele per se, but rather because I find it impossible to believe the entire investigative team was so incompetent that no one thought to collect the clasp for 47 days.
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Old 1st August 2017, 11:37 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
Kinda like when Vixen claims the M/B decision was political because...

"The Italians didn't want to see their boy serve life whilst the person found guilty of the actual killing roams free in the USA. "

Even though the two courts that preceded M/B did everything they could to convict Raffaele, all while Amanda was home in the USA. Doh!
When one wanders into thinking they know what Italians or Amanda or Raffaele or the courts "think" or "want" rather than sticking to the evidence and facts, they cannot help but "step in it".
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Old 1st August 2017, 11:38 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
I still think it's entirely possible it was collected, tested and then surreptitiously returned so it could be collected again, this time with a trace of Raffaele's DNA on it. I don't say this because I'm convinced the police actively framed Raffaele per se, but rather because I find it impossible to believe the entire investigative team was so incompetent that no one thought to collect the clasp for 47 days.
Both the real Frank Sfarzo, as well as the "Frank" character in the Winterbottom film (Edoardo) said that the issue was complete incompetence.

There was also judicial incompetence mixed in. Given that guilters behold the Follain book from 2011 as their bible, it is incredible to read, even in Follain's account, that Monica Napoleoni testified that there had been no access to the murder room without forensic counter measures..... well, all except for the medical team who'd been granted entrance to see the body while wearing none. That had been Nov 2.

Then we find out that this crack group of investigators said that the reason why they'd not forensically examined the outer-door-handle to Meredith's room to see who may have left fingerprints or DNA on or around it, was because they deemed, "that was not part of the crimescene." At some point that stuff rises to judicial incompetence when at least two courts convicted anyway....

Apparently Sfazo knew from the git-go that these investigators were not exactly rocket scientists....
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Old 1st August 2017, 12:12 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by Bill Williams View Post
Both the real Frank Sfarzo, as well as the "Frank" character in the Winterbottom film (Edoardo) said that the issue was complete incompetence.

There was also judicial incompetence mixed in. Given that guilters behold the Follain book from 2011 as their bible, it is incredible to read, even in Follain's account, that Monica Napoleoni testified that there had been no access to the murder room without forensic counter measures..... well, all except for the medical team who'd been granted entrance to see the body while wearing none. That had been Nov 2.

Then we find out that this crack group of investigators said that the reason why they'd not forensically examined the outer-door-handle to Meredith's room to see who may have left fingerprints or DNA on or around it, was because they deemed, "that was not part of the crimescene." At some point that stuff rises to judicial incompetence when at least two courts convicted anyway....

Apparently Sfazo knew from the git-go that these investigators were not exactly rocket scientists....
As I generally don't buy into conspiracies, and since I think if they did actively frame (didn't Grinder have an issue with this discussion??..) they would have planted more material in more places, then yeah, I can believe it was incompetence. But it truly is difficult to imagine all those buffoons milling about and not one suggests they collect the clasp. Yeah, we have the bra so who needs the clasp. Yeah, the crime took place inside the room so who needs forensics from the backside of the door or door frame. Oops, the clasp has rusted and can't be tested. Oops, fried three hard drives. I mean DAMN, these people made the Keystone Kops look downright competent!
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Old 1st August 2017, 01:11 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by TruthCalls View Post
As I generally don't buy into conspiracies, and since I think if they did actively frame (didn't Grinder have an issue with this discussion??..) they would have planted more material in more places, then yeah, I can believe it was incompetence. But it truly is difficult to imagine all those buffoons milling about and not one suggests they collect the clasp. Yeah, we have the bra so who needs the clasp. Yeah, the crime took place inside the room so who needs forensics from the backside of the door or door frame. Oops, the clasp has rusted and can't be tested. Oops, fried three hard drives. I mean DAMN, these people made the Keystone Kops look downright competent!

One person’s competence is another person’s connivance . . . .
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