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Tags frank greening , iron microspheres , wtc dust

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Old 12th August 2017, 06:18 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
AE911T say that "RJ Lee found the microspheres in amounts up to 6% inside the skyscraper across the street from WTC 2."

Assuming that as much as 3% came from a thermite reaction, there should be a report of a significant amount of aluminium oxide, easier to find due to its volume. There is none.

Particle distribution isn't that important for these considerations.
But RJ Lee is the obvious outlier. No other study comes close.
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Old 12th August 2017, 03:29 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
But RJ Lee is the obvious outlier. No other study comes close.
True but RJ Lee was months after cutting and removing the steel took place what Franks paper seems to show, is that RJLees's amounts had nothing what eve to do with the collapse of the buildings on Sept. 11,2001 except showing that cutting and removing large sections of steel, causes considerable contamination of dust.
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Old 12th August 2017, 07:53 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
Well, yes technically he should first explain why he thinks construction workers would not clean up the place and leave behind tons of iron spheres and other crap from construction, and also explain why these iron spheres would remain intact as iron versus rusting into iron-oxide and eventually turning into dust given 30 odd years in a salty wet next to the ocean rust factory climate. And then he would still have nothing because he neglected to mention we already know that the red material in those redgray chips formed at least some of those spheres so there is no challenge to Harrit et al.

Mr. Greening also assumes that the concrete had fly ash spheres even though he knows that it did not according to NIST and that he also knows that Dr Jones checked samples and found none. As he neglects to mention the redgray chips that debunk his welding spheres theory he simply neglects to mention these little details that debunk his work. This would be called out as scientific misconduct if any scientist bothered to respond to this crap. It is funny though seeing people here swallowing this BS without demanding he first publish it in some big name reviewed journal, as they do whenever anyone challenges their mantra. Behold, Greening says there be fly ash spheres in the concrete. Amen.

This paper is full of holes so big you could drive a truck through them, laughing all the way. It is ironic that the people he once called fanatical defenders of the official story are the only ones blind enough to not see them holes! So funny.

Mr Greening does though finally admit on paper that the iron rich spheres were created in 1500C plus temps, as truthers have been saying for years. Also very nice confirmation of Harrit et al conclusion of formation of iron spheres when redgray chips ignite means they reach temps over 1500C. But he neglects to mention all this, as he neglects to mention all the other things. Funny to think that some clowns on various forums and YouTube have been claiming otherwise for years. Red faces.
If only there was a way to come up with a baseline for dust that is clear of 110 storey office collapse debris.
Something along the lines of testing common outdoors dust in Boston and Philadelphia for the presence of iron microphones.
If not present it bolsters the idea that the NYC dust Fe uspheres come from those collapses. Of course there is the nasty other possibility, that large marine port cities have dust in which iron microphones are common.

This is not unlike the supposed molten steel meme. "Report" of molten steel in large fires is common.
Therefore reports of molten steel in the WTC fires means absolutely nothing unusual.


If only there was a way of illustrating that the supposed unreacted themiite residue does produce these spheres. Something along the lines of igniting them ( perhaps in an inert atmosphere to prove their thermitic property) and examining the result.
BTW, what percentage of the loaded thermite ended up, unreacted, in the dust and what does the concentration of thermite in the dust then tell us of the total mass of thermite loaded into these 2 (or 3) buildings?

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Old 13th August 2017, 01:28 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
Of course there is the nasty other possibility, that large marine port cities have dust in which iron microphones are common.
Wake up, sheeple! They're listening in to our conversations using the dust!

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Old 13th August 2017, 05:24 PM   #45
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Old 13th August 2017, 05:43 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Wake up, sheeple! They're listening in to our conversations using the dust!

Dave
No the iron microphones were used with Iron microspeackers to nullify the earth shattering kaboom of the nano thermite in the buildings.
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Old 14th August 2017, 05:52 AM   #47
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It is important also that we remember that this sample was collected Durring the event I believe if I read the paper right shortly after the collapse of WT2, and before the collapse of 1, and 7.

There fore it would be most interesting to have an average of the Amount of spheres in the sample, to determine the Average amount of microspheres, generated during the collapse of world trade center Two.

Some one please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old 14th August 2017, 10:44 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
It is important also that we remember that this sample was collected Durring the event I believe if I read the paper right shortly after the collapse of WT2, and before the collapse of 1, and 7.

There fore it would be most interesting to have an average of the Amount of spheres in the sample, to determine the Average amount of microspheres, generated during the collapse of world trade center Two.

Some one please correct me if I am wrong.
Correct...

But why assume uniform distribution of the components of the dust? Would the top layer be the same distribution as the bottom? would the close in be the same as the further out?

Where are the controls?
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Old 14th August 2017, 10:55 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
It is important also that we remember that this sample was collected Durring the event I believe if I read the paper right shortly after the collapse of WT2, and before the collapse of 1, and 7.

There fore it would be most interesting to have an average of the Amount of spheres in the sample, to determine the Average amount of microspheres, generated during the collapse of world trade center Two.

Some one please correct me if I am wrong.
It is most important is that we focus on the ‘hands-on’ findings of Dr. Harrit et al.

No peer-reviewed paper has shown that those findings are unfounded.

The big unanswered question remains; what was that, or any amount of supposedly-secure military engineered nanotechnology doing on the grounds of the World Trade Center?
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Old 14th August 2017, 11:12 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
It is most important is that we focus on the ‘hands-on’ findings of Dr. Harrit et al.

No peer-reviewed paper has shown that those findings are unfounded.
Wrong; the "peer reviewed" paper they're published in shows that those "findings" are unfounded. I can see how those who are ignorant of basic concepts in science might miss that rather obvious conclusion, but for the authors there is no such excuse.

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Old 14th August 2017, 01:07 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
It is most important is that we focus on the ‘hands-on’ findings of Dr. Harrit et al.

No peer-reviewed paper has shown that those findings are unfounded.

The big unanswered question remains; what was that, or any amount of supposedly-secure military engineered nanotechnology doing on the grounds of the World Trade Center?
Harrit and Jones may have been working with contaminated samples, that is an issue they do not address in the peer reviewed paper.
It would no be surprising to find aluminum with Strontium cromate, in self healing marine coatings on steel at all, there is very little true forensic work on the samples in Harrit and Jones papers,
It is hard to tell how they tried or if they tried to eliminate onsite contamination.
Self healing anti corrosion coatings have been worked on for decades, now by the Navy to protect ships and water craft from Sodium and Calcium Chloride corrosion in salt water envirments.
Many of those technologies used Laclade based epoxies.
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Old 14th August 2017, 01:46 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
It is important also that we remember that this sample was collected Durring the event I believe if I read the paper right shortly after the collapse of WT2, and before the collapse of 1, and 7.

There fore it would be most interesting to have an average of the Amount of spheres in the sample, to determine the Average amount of microspheres, generated during the collapse of world trade center Two.

Some one please correct me if I am wrong.
I have a bit of a problem with the sample:

This is dust, we learn, shaken out of clothing. We should expect some sorting mechanisms at work in the process from getting the clothings dusted during the collapse and ensuing dust cloud (not all dust fractions may stick to clothing as easily as others); person doing things like running around for hours; person taking off clothes (by that time, some of the dust will have been lost - and there can be little doubt that this affects some particles more than others, based on size, shape and chemistry); person stuffing clothing into bag; person storing, perhaps moving a few times, bag over the course of 15 years (what material was the bag? Did any chemicals emanate from the bag material and perhaps react with the contents? Could, e.g., some of the Cl come from the bag, or from the clothing?); person retrieves some of that dust and puts it into a zip-log bag (again, some particle fractions will be more easily retreived than others, thanks to effects like sticking less stubbornly to the fabric, or getting released to the air).

There's a great advantage to having the dust "collected" during the event. But all the rest is very disadvantageous.


And then there is of course contamination: The person did not arrive at the WTC with dust-free clothing; and the person ran around for hours and may have picked up more ambient dust (from WTC, or from urban background).
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Old 14th August 2017, 03:41 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post

The big unanswered question remains; what was that, or any amount of supposedly-secure military engineered nanotechnology doing on the grounds of the World Trade Center?
Where did you get the idea any was found? Please quote your source for this and confirmation.

If memory serves Harrit only speculates what he thinks it might be. Your question assumes proof. Where's the proof or admit you made up "secure military engineered nanotechnology".

Criteria, caught lying in the name of "truth" once again.
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Old 14th August 2017, 05:36 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
It is most important is that we focus on the ‘hands-on’ findings of Dr. Harrit et al.

No peer-reviewed paper has shown that those findings are unfounded.

The big unanswered question remains; what was that, or any amount of supposedly-secure military engineered nanotechnology doing on the grounds of the World Trade Center?
Indeed Criteria. Dr Greening has known for a long time that NIST sources and concrete testing by Dr Jones agree that the concrete did not have fly ash spheres. Greening's new paper confirms that he was not able to find any actual reference material or physical tests to contradict that knowledge. Greening also acknowledges the distinct iron-rich spheres. The only known source for those spheres is the red material found in those redgray chips, as it produces them upon ignition. Serious study is now automatically focused on the red material. Certain people on this forum will continue banging their heads against a wall until they drop, but then Greening did compare them to a religious cult defending the official story for a good reason.

The red nano-thermitic material was indeed based on technology from US military labs, which is not so surprising when one considers that the FBI now openly acknowledges that the Anthrax used in the post-911 Anthrax attacks was from US military labs..
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Old 14th August 2017, 05:48 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
The red nano-thermitic material was indeed based on technology from US military labs,
Source? We know, commercial coatings industries just doesn't have the same feel............

I know the source and hope he doesn't drop his pants and show us.............
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Old 14th August 2017, 06:06 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
Greening also acknowledges the distinct iron-rich spheres. The only known source for those spheres is the red material found in those redgray chips, as it produces them upon ignition.
Except, there's no corresponding quantity of aluminium oxide in the dust.
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Old 14th August 2017, 06:28 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by pgimeno View Post
Except, there's no corresponding quantity of aluminium oxide in the dust.
That's how they know it's the super secret military stuff. Regular thermite can't do this............
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Old 14th August 2017, 07:20 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
Indeed Criteria. Dr Greening has known for a long time that NIST sources and concrete testing by Dr Jones agree that the concrete did not have fly ash spheres. Greening's new paper confirms that he was not able to find any actual reference material or physical tests to contradict that knowledge. Greening also acknowledges the distinct iron-rich spheres. The only known source for those spheres is the red material found in those redgray chips, as it produces them upon ignition. Serious study is now automatically focused on the red material. Certain people on this forum will continue banging their heads against a wall until they drop, but then Greening did compare them to a religious cult defending the official story for a good reason.

The red nano-thermitic material was indeed based on technology from US military labs, which is not so surprising when one considers that the FBI now openly acknowledges that the Anthrax used in the post-911 Anthrax attacks was from US military labs..
or based on 1940s paint tech, since aluminum in paint isn't new, oh wait I forgot aluminum flake metal paint is two to three times more energetic that the chips found by Jones & Harrit, and ignites under argon, producing iron microspheres.

To bad there is no proof that the chips found by Harrit and Jones will do that, but then again aluminum based paints actually contain both aluminum and iron oxide.

Since we are talking durring the event sample, and the quantitative measurement of microspheres, is 0.1%, that would indicate that there is not much thermite in world Trade center 2.
Not enough to raise the level of Iron microspheres, above the limit, that would be expected to be left over from construction.
We have tons of classic cars and trucks even motor cycles running the streets with a compound at least twice as energetic, as super duper thermite from Harrit and Jones.
So Ziggi why not just use the higher energy, more fuel Aluminum flake paints?
http://www.kustomrama.com/index.php?title=Metalflake

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Old 14th August 2017, 07:25 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by DGM View Post
That's how they know it's the super secret military stuff. Regular thermite can't do this............
Actually they knew what they were looking for you would want a mixture of Aluminum Oxide, and microspheres of copper with Iron, and Fe3O4 microspheres.
You either have to oxygen cut the steel or heat weaken it, or a combination of both leaving distinctive evidence which has never been found.
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Old 14th August 2017, 09:28 PM   #60
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Let us list the number of steel frame building bought down by controlled demolition, using some type of thermite: 0
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Old 15th August 2017, 06:55 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by MileHighMadness View Post
Let us list the number of steel frame building bought down by controlled demolition, using some type of thermite: 0
Exactly the Amount of evidence for thermite in the dust at this point.
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Old 15th August 2017, 11:45 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Crazy Chainsaw View Post
... aluminum in paint isn't new, ... aluminum flake metal paint ... then again aluminum based paints actually contain both aluminum and iron oxide. ... more fuel Aluminum flake paints? ...
None of the red-gray chips contain any elemental aluminium whatsoever. Your "aluminum flake metal paint" is a fantasy almost as wrong as Jones' nano-thermite hoax. I say "almost", because your are honestly wrong, while Jones is a fraud.
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Old 15th August 2017, 11:50 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
It is most important is that we focus on the ‘hands-on’ findings of Dr. Harrit et al.

No peer-reviewed paper has shown that those findings are unfounded.

The big unanswered question remains; what was that, or any amount of supposedly-secure military engineered nanotechnology doing on the grounds of the World Trade Center?
I really don't have to discus the red grey chips at all until you can exp!ain, why Jones and Harrit's chips violation the law of thermal dynamics, the paper can not be taken as Science not even if it was peer reviewed by Einstein, Newton, and Maxwell themselves personally.
A paper to be valid should not violate the laws of thermal dynamics for a given mass of components.
When you explain how Harrit and Jones do this I will listen about these red Grey chips, good luck.
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Old 15th August 2017, 01:13 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
None of the red-gray chips contain any elemental aluminium whatsoever. Your "aluminum flake metal paint" is a fantasy almost as wrong as Jones' nano-thermite hoax. I say "almost", because your are honestly wrong, while Jones is a fraud.
Agree Jones is a fraud, but that does not change the fact if there is any doubt, that morally and ethically I have to give it to him, even though I would rather be drawn and Quartered, or eaten by a grizzly bear.
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Old 15th August 2017, 08:10 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
It is most important is that we focus on the ‘hands-on’ findings of Dr. Harrit et al.

No peer-reviewed paper has shown that those findings are unfounded.

The big unanswered question remains; what was that, or any amount of supposedly-secure military engineered nanotechnology doing on the grounds of the World Trade Center?
I think the implications of the Harrit paper should be explored.
So once again I ask:
What percentage of unreacted thermite would be expected, and given the concentration of unreacted thermite in the dust, what extrapolation can be made to determine a ballpark number for the quantity of thermite used in these 2 (3) buildings?
Criteria? Ziggy?
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Old 15th August 2017, 11:32 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Ziggi View Post
The red nano-thermitic material was indeed based on technology from US military labs

You may need to cast your net in wackier waters if you intend to maintain the revenue stream.

I'd go with: "The red nano-thermitic material was indeed adapted from suppressed Alien tech."
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Old 16th August 2017, 04:08 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Ape of Good Hope View Post
You may need to cast your net in wackier waters if you intend to maintain the revenue stream.

I'd go with: "The red nano-thermitic material was indeed adapted from suppressed Alien tech."
I would go broader, the Aliens did 9/11, because Bush was a reptilian over lord.
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Old 16th August 2017, 05:07 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
None of the red-gray chips contain any elemental aluminium whatsoever. Your "aluminum flake metal paint" is a fantasy almost as wrong as Jones' nano-thermite hoax. I say "almost", because your are honestly wrong, while Jones is a fraud.
It also may surprise you Oystein that I agree with you none of the chips tested has shown signs of elemental aluminum, infact the energy spike from the DSC, shows the chips violate the laws of thermal dynamics for a chip containing aluminum as a major fuel source.
To much energy per mass to be a metal based fuel, and you can't get more energy from a system than it contains.
You would think that Jones being a physicist would have caught onto that.
Now can we get back to discussion of Frank's paper?
I should also point out that the Idea these samples are contaminated, is theory, unsubstanciated and that because of the time factor, first collected and bagged the samples may be less contaminated, than any other sample collected.
If as such they are uncontaminated, durring the event samples, then they totally falsify the fly ash theory, and RJ. Lee's 2012 Letter.
As well as the theories of Controller demolition, in World Trade Center 2.
Does anyone have any objection to viewing the paper on it's scientific contents?

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Old 22nd August 2017, 07:45 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
I think the implications of the Harrit paper should be explored.
So once again I ask:
What percentage of unreacted thermite would be expected, and given the concentration of unreacted thermite in the dust, what extrapolation can be made to determine a ballpark number for the quantity of thermite used in these 2 (3) buildings?
Criteria? Ziggy?
Since the proponents of "thermite in the towers" can't or won't deign to address this, can anyone else help me out?

The dust sample contained, supposedly, these red/gray chips which are leftover, unreacted termite.
What percentage of a thermite load would not remain unreacted?
Multiply that by the percentage of dust that would contain this material and mulitply by the total amount of dust to arrive at the total leftover amount. Solve for total loaded into the buildings.

Above we learn that another dust sample is from a time period between tower collapses. If we could learn the concentration of any marker material in that dust and in dust from post wtc1 collapse then we can determine how much of that marker material is from each collapse and make good estimates on how much are pre911 and irrelevant.

Here's the thing that bothers me; if we use this data to come up with a ridiculously large amount of thermite in the buildings then it points to this as a stupid theory.

If as we might expect, only a small fraction of thermite fails to react and thermite is proposed to have been in all of the several samples Harrit used, then it points
If a large amount would be expected to remain unreacted then it points to a very very unreliable compound and one wonders about the competence of the person who devised this plot
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Old 23rd August 2017, 05:55 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by jaydeehess View Post
”What percentage of a thermite load would not remain unreacted?”
You ask for gross speculation to answer an irrelevant and unanswerable question.

Zero nano-thermite should have been found in the dust!
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Old 23rd August 2017, 06:35 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Criteria View Post
You ask for gross speculation to answer an irrelevant and unanswerable question.

Zero nano-thermite should have been found in the dust!
That's right, and none ever has been.
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