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Tags donald trump , Jeff Sessions , lying charges , Russia conspiracies , Trump administration , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations

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Old 7th March 2017, 04:34 AM   #401
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Are we past peak Sessions?
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Old 7th March 2017, 04:38 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Are we past peak Sessions?
Has he served the first year of his prison sentence yet?
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Old 7th March 2017, 08:02 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
That's not actually true. Plenty of people have done that and won. The real lesson is a little different. Ever heard of Russia's mud season?

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I AGREE
In 1610 the Poles "captured Moscow and some other cities", as did Napoleon two centuries later, and just as in that case the war was not over. When it was, Poland was back where it started, broke, fractured, and never again to be a serious player in Europe. Their objective - expansion to the Urals and beyond - was certainly not achieved.

The Swedes marched all over Russia and ended up back where they started, broke, yadda yadda. Their objective - a Baltic Empire - was not achieved.

The Mongols pulled it off, but they were a law unto themselves, and there was no Russian state at the time. It's the Russian state that has (so far) proved impossible to subdue. However hard you hit it it just comes shambling back.

Of course one could argue that, by invading Ukraine, Putin has started a land war in Russia. Which wouldn't augur well for him.
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Old 7th March 2017, 08:58 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
It seems Sessions argument for being attorney general is that he is a confused and senile old man and couldn't remember meeting the russian ambassador. Still raises questions of why he started talking about meeting russians when it wasn't even the question asked. Pretty poor lawyer to add lies under oath that were not even to the question asked.
The highlighted question raising is based on the assumption that this hearing was part of a normal administration transition. This assumes two points:

1) The appointed candidate actually wants to be confirmed, with flying colors.
2) The political opposite tries to actually discover any weakness of the candidate during the hearing.

This was not a normal transition, and not a normal hearing under such a transition. As such, the outlined assumptions do not apply. I leave it up to you to see what this means.

In particular, consider the following: The candidate states a bold-faced lie without being asked an underlying question related to that statement. Anyone in the room knows it's a lie (it was publicly known to be a lie a couple of days later, but the underlying information was surely circulating on Capitol Hill before that). And yet, the candidate is not challenged about the lie during the hearing. What does this signify? Consider also that all the people in the room are experienced politicians, which means they're professional iars and cheats, and when they don't cuddle babies, they steal their lolly-pops.

ETA: Another thing to ponder: The possible Russian connection is major news for months. It was damn certain it would come up in the hearing at some point. Sessions sure as hell would have prepared for that, knowing full well that he met the Russian ambassador. That's Politics 101, and Sessions is too long in the business to not know that. And you really believe he made such a blunder out of senility and confusion?

Last edited by elgarak; 7th March 2017 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 7th March 2017, 09:14 AM   #405
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Originally Posted by elgarak View Post
The highlighted question raising is based on the assumption that this hearing was part of a normal administration transition. This assumes two points:

1) The appointed candidate actually wants to be confirmed, with flying colors.
2) The political opposite tries to actually discover any weakness of the candidate during the hearing.

This was not a normal transition, and not a normal hearing under such a transition. As such, the outlined assumptions do not apply. I leave it up to you to see what this means.

In particular, consider the following: The candidate states a bold-faced lie without being asked an underlying question related to that statement. Anyone in the room knows it's a lie (it was publicly known to be a lie a couple of days later, but the underlying information was surely circulating on Capitol Hill before that). And yet, the candidate is not challenged about the lie during the hearing. What does this signify? Consider also that all the people in the room are experienced politicians, which means they're professional iars and cheats, and when they don't cuddle babies, they steal their lolly-pops.

ETA: Another thing to ponder: The possible Russian connection is major news for months. It was damn certain it would come up in the hearing at some point. Sessions sure as hell would have prepared for that, knowing full well that he met the Russian ambassador. That's Politics 101, and Sessions is too long in the business to not know that. And you really believe he made such a blunder out of senility and confusion?
It is the answer that fits the facts, so what is your reason he perjured himself? When he didn't need to lie to answer the the question truthfully and not bring up his meetings with the russians?

I guess it is just trying to show that the rule of law is over and that republicans can now get away with anything.
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Old 8th March 2017, 12:22 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by elgarak View Post
The highlighted question raising is based on the assumption that this hearing was part of a normal administration transition. This assumes two points:

1) The appointed candidate actually wants to be confirmed, with flying colors.
2) The political opposite tries to actually discover any weakness of the candidate during the hearing.

This was not a normal transition, and not a normal hearing under such a transition. As such, the outlined assumptions do not apply. I leave it up to you to see what this means.

In particular, consider the following: The candidate states a bold-faced lie without being asked an underlying question related to that statement. Anyone in the room knows it's a lie (it was publicly known to be a lie a couple of days later, but the underlying information was surely circulating on Capitol Hill before that). And yet, the candidate is not challenged about the lie during the hearing. What does this signify? Consider also that all the people in the room are experienced politicians, which means they're professional iars and cheats, and when they don't cuddle babies, they steal their lolly-pops.

ETA: Another thing to ponder: The possible Russian connection is major news for months. It was damn certain it would come up in the hearing at some point. Sessions sure as hell would have prepared for that, knowing full well that he met the Russian ambassador. That's Politics 101, and Sessions is too long in the business to not know that. And you really believe he made such a blunder out of senility and confusion?
This sounds like a fun conspiracy theory. Please flesh it out for us. No need to be coy.
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Old 8th March 2017, 04:03 PM   #407
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Looks like Sessions is going to have to revise his testimony again. Third meeting between Sessions and Kislyak uncovered.

Quote:
In April of 2016, Sessions attended a VIP reception at a hotel in Washington, D.C., with President Donald Trump and roughly two dozen guests, including four ambassadors. One of them was Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak. The cocktail meet-and-greet took place in a private room at the Mayflower Hotel near the White House. Shortly thereafter, Trump delivered a foreign policy speech in the hotelís ballroom, where he called for improved U.S.-Russia relations. Kislyak was seated in the front row.*

Though the event was small, it is unclear if Sessions and Kislyak spoke directly, and a spokeswoman for the attorney general did not respond immediately to questions about the event from The Huffington Post. Organizers said the event included a receiving line.

Sessions did not mention the Mayflower event when he was asked during his confirmation hearings if he had any contact during the presidential campaign with Russian officials. Nor did he put that event in his amended testimony to the Senate Judiciary Committee this week.

The Center for the National Interest, the conservative foreign policy organization that hosted Trumpís speech at the Mayflower, invited Kislyak to the reception. An April 2016 story in Politico noted that Sessions also attended the event and was in the Senate Room of the Mayflower, along with ďambassadors.Ē
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Old 8th March 2017, 06:56 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Looks like Sessions is going to have to revise his testimony again. Third meeting between Sessions and Kislyak uncovered.

I don't think organized events with people in groups is much of a catch.

One-on-one stuff, that he's reluctant to bring up. Now that's a different matter
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Old 8th March 2017, 07:14 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
One-on-one stuff, that he's reluctant to bring up. Now that's a different matter
In his defense, that sauna was very steamy, and the Russian ambassador's belly obscured the view of his face from that angle. Sessions had no real ability to be certain it was him at all.
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Old 8th March 2017, 07:38 PM   #410
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
In his defense, that sauna was very steamy, and the Russian ambassador's belly obscured the view of his face from that angle. Sessions had no real ability to be certain it was him at all.
Plausible deniability for dummies. Chapter one.

Meanwhile, Maddow is absolutely killing it again. Probably won't result in the lengthy prison terms called for, but at least there'll be a record.
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Old 8th March 2017, 08:39 PM   #411
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Originally Posted by trustbutverify View Post

Meanwhile, Maddow is absolutely killing it again.
Her ratings?
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Old 9th March 2017, 04:45 AM   #412
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I think the thread needs a new title.
Trump has mived things on with his Obama Wiretapping claims.
No one cares about Sessions and his Russian contacts anymore.
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Old 9th March 2017, 05:37 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Her ratings?
I'm sure you haven't even the tons of Putin connections she's covered on her show. Burying your head in the sand won't help you.
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Old 9th March 2017, 05:39 AM   #414
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Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
Of course one could argue that, by invading Ukraine, Putin has started a land war in Russia. Which wouldn't augur well for him.
He managed in Chechnya, though at not inconsiderable cost.
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Old 9th March 2017, 05:43 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by Mid View Post
You do realise that Great Britain as a country hasn't existed since the 18th Century right?
It does exist, but not as an independent country. The name of the independent state is "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland".
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Old 9th March 2017, 06:26 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Kicked Nazi ass? The Soviet Union had 20,000,000 war dead and took 350,000 casualties in less than 3 weeks trying to take Berlin. Sure they won, but that's not my working definition of kicking anything except lots of buckets.
Capturing the Nazi capital city is not within your definition of contributing to the defeat of the Nazis? What do you mean "trying" to take Berlin? Yes they "tried", but they also "succeeded", so it would be more normal to write, suffered 350,000 casualties taking Berlin.
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Old 9th March 2017, 06:31 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
He managed in Chechnya, though at not inconsiderable cost.
It was great for consolidating his power, those bombs planted in apartment buildings really paid off. Of course there is good reasons to think Putin had them put there in the first place.
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Old 9th March 2017, 07:09 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Capturing the Nazi capital city is not within your definition of contributing to the defeat of the Nazis? What do you mean "trying" to take Berlin? Yes they "tried", but they also "succeeded", so it would be more normal to write, suffered 350,000 casualties taking Berlin.
Spoilers! Thanks for ruining the ending for me.
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Old 10th March 2017, 04:44 PM   #419
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Department of Justice purged.

Trump Abruptly Orders 46 Obama-Era Prosecutors to Resign

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
...
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Old 10th March 2017, 07:09 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
YOU'RE FIRED!
Get the **** out!

Of course not directed at you SG

Last edited by logger; 10th March 2017 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 10th March 2017, 07:17 PM   #421
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Originally Posted by sunmaster14 View Post
Spoilers! Thanks for ruining the ending for me.
That's okay,

They didn't get to keep it
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Old 11th March 2017, 01:14 AM   #422
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
From the linked article:
Quote:
It is not unusual for a new president to replace United States attorneys appointed by a predecessor, especially when there has been a change in which party controls the White House.
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Old 11th March 2017, 01:39 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by mbp View Post
From the linked article:
But they usually have replacements lined up before getting rid of the appointees from the previous administration. Trump is different.
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Old 12th March 2017, 12:05 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
But they usually have replacements lined up before getting rid of the appointees from the previous administration. Trump is different.
If your goal is to prove that government is ineffective, then what better strategy?
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Old 12th March 2017, 12:08 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Department of Justice purged.
Good. It needed purging after Obama stacked it with political operatives.
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Old 12th March 2017, 12:12 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
If your goal is to prove that government is ineffective, then what better strategy?
Begging the question.

But those of us who prefer the Federal government to be largely ineffective are naturally heartened by arguments that Donald Trump is making it more so.

Tell me more about your campaign strategy for 2020. Right now it seems surprisingly pro Trump.
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Old 12th March 2017, 12:22 PM   #427
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Begging the question.
Times are tough, begging may become more common. Luckily you'll be there to spot it.

Quote:
But those of us who prefer the Federal government to be largely ineffective are naturally heartened by arguments that Donald Trump is making it more so.
My point. The people who elected him will be heartened by his efforts to make the federal government totally ineffective.

Quote:
Tell me more about your campaign strategy for 2020. Right now it seems surprisingly pro Trump.
I've decided not to run for personal reasons.
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Old 13th March 2017, 04:18 AM   #428
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Good. It needed purging after Obama stacked it with political operatives.
Now they will be the right kind of political operative. And we don't have to worry about BS things like caring about wall street violating laws. And forget concerns over BS laws like the voting rights act.
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Old 13th March 2017, 04:35 AM   #429
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Good. It needed purging after Obama stacked it with political operatives.
Because no president before Obama ever did anything like that?

Get real!
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Old 13th March 2017, 04:45 AM   #430
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Originally Posted by KatieG View Post
Because no president before Obama ever did anything like that?

Get real!
And no president has purged the appointees of a previous president either.

Get real indeed.
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Old 13th March 2017, 04:48 AM   #431
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Now they will be the right kind of political operative. And we don't have to worry about BS things like caring about wall street violating laws. And forget concerns over BS laws like the voting rights act.
Funny you should mention the voting rights act. For years, the Obama administration hired exclusively liberal attorneys for the Civil Rights division. You can't seriously claim that this was purely in the interest of enforcing the laws.

Oh, who am I kidding? Of course you'll claim that, because that's the sort of partisan you are.
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Old 13th March 2017, 05:12 AM   #432
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
And no president has purged the appointees of a previous president either.

Get real indeed.
Without having any replacements lined up?
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Old 13th March 2017, 07:21 AM   #433
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Funny you should mention the voting rights act. For years, the Obama administration hired exclusively liberal attorneys for the Civil Rights division. You can't seriously claim that this was purely in the interest of enforcing the laws.

Oh, who am I kidding? Of course you'll claim that, because that's the sort of partisan you are.
Lack of qualified conservative attorneys who were interested in enforcing Civil Rights is the obvious retort to that.

Are attorneys at that level really routinely classified by being liberal or conservative?
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Old 13th March 2017, 07:54 AM   #434
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Lack of qualified conservative attorneys who were interested in enforcing Civil Rights is the obvious retort to that.

Are attorneys at that level really routinely classified by being liberal or conservative?
Civil rights crusader Jeff Sessions will prove that wrong. We will have a voting rights department focused on what really matter, not those worthless minorities but on finding the millions of illegal aliens who voted. Blocking minorities from voting is Republicanism 101 after all. It is the basis of the white nationalism at the core of the republican party.

Next up getting creationism the serious consideration it deserves in NSF grants. Though are they going to remove the word science from that like the have on so many areas?
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Last edited by ponderingturtle; 13th March 2017 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 13th March 2017, 11:56 AM   #435
Ziggurat
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Originally Posted by tyr_13 View Post
Lack of qualified conservative attorneys who were interested in enforcing Civil Rights is the obvious retort to that.
Of course. Your first instinct is to find the excuse, rather than actually examine the problem. Even your language (it's a "retort", not an explanation or response) betrays your partisan approach. Yes, it's an obvious retort, but is it true? You give no reason to think so, nor is it frankly credible.

You would have been much better off pointing out that there were problems with the Civil Rights division under Bush too. Of course, that doesn't excuse the problems under Obama, so I can see why you would go the baseless route rather than take a more measured approach.

Quote:
Are attorneys at that level really routinely classified by being liberal or conservative?
Not officially, but it's generally not hard to figure out.
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Old 13th March 2017, 12:08 PM   #436
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Without having any replacements lined up?
Kinda hard to reduce the size of the federal workforce if you replace all the layoffs.
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Old 13th March 2017, 12:17 PM   #437
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Kinda hard to reduce the size of the federal workforce if you replace all the layoffs.
Wow, that went from a 'but everybody does it' to a 'Trump is the only one to ..' argument really quickly!
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Old 13th March 2017, 12:49 PM   #438
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Originally Posted by wareyin View Post
Wow, that went from a 'but everybody does it' to a 'Trump is the only one to ..' argument really quickly!
Different people focusing on different things can give that illusion if you're not looking carefully.

Removing the previous administration's political appointees is a common practice. Staffing one's administration according to one's own view of how the administration is not only common practice, it is a central and proper part of the role of the chief executive. Removing previous political appointees is part of the process. Replacing them is only necessary if the executive believes they need to be replaced. Some of what Trump is doing is entirely typical. Some of it is sadly all to rare. All of it is appropriate to his office.

What, exactly, is your complaint? That he's removing previous political employees? Or that he's not replacing them?
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Old 13th March 2017, 02:10 PM   #439
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Kinda hard to reduce the size of the federal workforce if you replace all the layoffs.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Different people focusing on different things can give that illusion if you're not looking carefully.

Removing the previous administration's political appointees is a common practice. Staffing one's administration according to one's own view of how the administration is not only common practice, it is a central and proper part of the role of the chief executive. Removing previous political appointees is part of the process. Replacing them is only necessary if the executive believes they need to be replaced. Some of what Trump is doing is entirely typical. Some of it is sadly all to rare. All of it is appropriate to his office.

What, exactly, is your complaint? That he's removing previous political employees? Or that he's not replacing them?
My complaint is your absurd implied claim that US attorneys don't need to be replaced.
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Old 13th March 2017, 02:15 PM   #440
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Different people focusing on different things can give that illusion if you're not looking carefully.

Removing the previous administration's political appointees is a common practice. Staffing one's administration according to one's own view of how the administration is not only common practice, it is a central and proper part of the role of the chief executive. Removing previous political appointees is part of the process. Replacing them is only necessary if the executive believes they need to be replaced. Some of what Trump is doing is entirely typical. Some of it is sadly all to rare. All of it is appropriate to his office.

What, exactly, is your complaint? That he's removing previous political employees? Or that he's not replacing them?
He's removung thrm En Bloc with no replacements in sight.
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