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Old 1st July 2019, 09:15 AM   #1
Cainkane1
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Would a warmed up Mars actually have too much water?

There has been discovered two large water ice masses that have at least as much water as the Great Lakes. Would warming the planet up and melting the water cause the water to cover too much land mass for humans to live there?
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Old 1st July 2019, 09:25 AM   #2
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https://futurism.com/mars-has-glacie...-entire-planet
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Old 1st July 2019, 10:03 AM   #3
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The study doesn't cover how the water would be distributed, just that mathematically it would cover the entire size of the planet with 1 meter of water.

Given the uneven surface you'd get concentrations - I've seen images of blue mars that show this.

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Old 1st July 2019, 11:12 AM   #4
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And with those extended Mars windstorms, then the waves would be totally gnarly!.

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Old 1st July 2019, 12:45 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
And with those extended Mars windstorms, then the waves would be totally gnarly!.

Maybe the rain would keep that dust down.
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:03 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
And with those extended Mars windstorms, then the waves would be totally gnarly!.

The atmosphere is so thin that even at high velocities it produces very little force, which would work against large waves. On the flip side, significantly lower gravity would probably help make waves bigger (though also slower moving). I suspect the lower atmospheric pressure, which is lower by a much bigger factor (less than 1% of earth's) than its gravity (38% of earth's), is the more significant factor here, so waves would likely not be impressive.
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Old 1st July 2019, 01:34 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
The atmosphere is so thin that even at high velocities it produces very little force, which would work against large waves. On the flip side, significantly lower gravity would probably help make waves bigger (though also slower moving). I suspect the lower atmospheric pressure, which is lower by a much bigger factor (less than 1% of earth's) than its gravity (38% of earth's), is the more significant factor here, so waves would likely not be impressive.
Melting all that ice would increase the atmospheric pressure dramatically
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Old 1st July 2019, 03:40 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Crossbow View Post
And with those extended Mars windstorms, then the waves would be totally gnarly!.


I don't believe the low pressure would allow those windstorms to whip up waves of any significant size. This was a key science cock-up in the movie "The Martian". A 100 km wind on Mars is about maximum but has the equivalent force of only a few km/hr and would not be capable of tipping over the ERV.


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Old 1st July 2019, 03:41 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
Melting all that ice would increase the atmospheric pressure dramatically

Yep, but would that not also reduce the frequency and scale of those storms considerably?
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Old 1st July 2019, 03:50 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Yep, but would that not also reduce the frequency and scale of those storms considerably?
Not entirely sure how that plays out actually.
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Old 1st July 2019, 05:56 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
Melting all that ice would increase the atmospheric pressure dramatically
Doubling the atmospheric pressure would be dramatic, but still pretty low pressure.
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Old 1st July 2019, 06:31 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
There has been discovered two large water ice masses that have at least as much water as the Great Lakes. Would warming the planet up and melting the water cause the water to cover too much land mass for humans to live there?
The volume of the great lakes is trivial compared to an actual ocean. Any ocean.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 02:22 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Ziggurat View Post
Doubling the atmospheric pressure would be dramatic, but still pretty low pressure.
it would be much more dramatic than a mere doubling.

The Martian South pole has a coating of dry ice covering frozen water. As the dry ice melts, carbon dioxide could be released into the atmosphere far more than doubling the atmosphere right there alone.

But there is more.

If we actually got it warm enough to melt the surface ice due to the greenhouse effect, some of it would vaporize and create clouds in the sky. Water vapor is actually a greenhouse gas more powerful than carbon dioxide, and again, could possibly work to raise the planet's temperature. The theory is that would trigger a chain reaction causing buried ice to melt and seep up from underground. More water vapor, more warming and even rain.

If we add life to the equation then there is methane and nitrogen cycles functioning again. So even more atmospheric pressure.

It would never get as dense as here on Earth, but we could probably get it up to the same as the summit of mount Everest within 1000 years or so.

That's still scarce, but one hell of a lot more than just double.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 05:52 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I don't believe the low pressure would allow those windstorms to whip up waves of any significant size. This was a key science cock-up in the movie "The Martian". A 100 km wind on Mars is about maximum but has the equivalent force of only a few km/hr and would not be capable of tipping over the ERV.


ninja'd by Zig
It wasn't really a cock up even though it's impossible. It was a plot device used by Andy Weir to provide a reason for why they the rest of the crew had to launch and leave him behind. He admitted as much in the additional footage on the blu-ray.
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Old 2nd July 2019, 07:48 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Red Baron Farms View Post
it would be much more dramatic than a mere doubling.

The Martian South pole has a coating of dry ice covering frozen water. As the dry ice melts, carbon dioxide could be released into the atmosphere far more than doubling the atmosphere right there alone.

But there is more.

If we actually got it warm enough to melt the surface ice due to the greenhouse effect, some of it would vaporize and create clouds in the sky. Water vapor is actually a greenhouse gas more powerful than carbon dioxide, and again, could possibly work to raise the planet's temperature. The theory is that would trigger a chain reaction causing buried ice to melt and seep up from underground. More water vapor, more warming and even rain.

If we add life to the equation then there is methane and nitrogen cycles functioning again. So even more atmospheric pressure.

It would never get as dense as here on Earth, but we could probably get it up to the same as the summit of mount Everest within 1000 years or so.

That's still scarce, but one hell of a lot more than just double.

Ooh! I had a JREF flashback then.
Thanks Red Baron Farms, great explanation!
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Old 3rd July 2019, 01:33 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mikemcc View Post
It wasn't really a cock up even though it's impossible. It was a plot device used by Andy Weir to provide a reason for why they the rest of the crew had to launch and leave him behind. He admitted as much in the additional footage on the blu-ray.
Even NDGT was OK with it. What was it he said.... "Get the science right, and then distort it at your leisure"
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Old Yesterday, 08:16 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
The volume of the great lakes is trivial compared to an actual ocean. Any ocean.
Mars is only one fourth the size of earth so having at least twice the water of the great lakes is a lot of water for such a small planet.
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Old Yesterday, 08:58 PM   #18
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No, it's not.
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