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Old 5th May 2019, 04:41 AM   #441
cullennz
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
This is another point where we disagree: I would much rather have the Nazi understand what's wrong with white supremacism: Rising Out of Hatred: The Awakening of a Former White Nationalist.
And I have a really hard time understanding why you "WOULDN'T CARE IF HE DIED HORRIBLY", and yet you get really upset because somebody egged him ....

If I ever met him, I would throw this at him!
That is because you seem to think that I care he was hit by an egg.

I don't

I was just pointing out from post one it is an act of violence on the part of the people doing it.

Basic facts. Jerk gets hit by egg. People say it is a Nazi so not act of violence. I say it is act of violence. .............this happens
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Old 5th May 2019, 04:46 AM   #442
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
No.

I'm just pointing out facts.

If you want to pretend violence isn't violence when the person getting it falls into some category to make it feel more warm and fluffy go for it.
In what sort of scenarios do you, as a non-pacifist, believe violence is justified?

And just a heads up; answering "self defense" within the context of this discussion is going to bite you in the ass, so come up with something else.
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Old 5th May 2019, 04:48 AM   #443
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
In what scenarios do you, as a non-pacifist, believe violence is justified?

And just a heads up; answering "self defense" within the context of this discussion is going to bite you in the ass, so come up with something else.
Self defence or the protection of others
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 5th May 2019, 04:51 AM   #444
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Self defence or the protection of others
Well that was as predictable as it was dishonest.
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Old 5th May 2019, 04:52 AM   #445
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Feel free to elaborate
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 5th May 2019, 04:55 AM   #446
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Feel free to elaborate
How do you feel about military action? Or states enforcing laws through their police force?
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Old 5th May 2019, 05:02 AM   #447
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
How do you feel about military action? Or the state enforcing laws through the police force?
Lol

Geezes

If countries go to war they go to war and if my country does then I back my soldiers.

Police have one of the hardest jobs there is and if provable crims die for being idiots, they die.

Seriously

None of this changes biffing an egg at some ones head is an act of violence.

You might want to stop grasping straws
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 5th May 2019, 05:19 AM   #448
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Put it this way

Someone biffs egg at someones head and it hits. This is called an act of violence.

Now you can say the recipient deserves it because they are "##########" fill in whatever. In this case, some wannabe nazi racist dude.

Hey maybe nazi dude gets arrested for inciting hatred.

This does not make the initial egg throwing non violent
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 5th May 2019, 05:40 AM   #449
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Basic facts. Jerk gets hit by egg. People say it is a Nazi so not act of violence.

No, you should get your facts straight:
1) Another Nazi egged. Yes, a fact, obviously.
2) You keep saying it, but nobody's said that it's not an act of violence because he's a Nazi. No, not a fact, but you keep up the pretense that it is.
I say that egging is not violence, but I don't say so because he's a Nazi. That you're in denial about this isn't our fault.
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Old 5th May 2019, 06:29 AM   #450
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Actually let's go the whole hog

He is a bona fide Nazi killer and in his head he is moments away from killing someone

Please explain how it is lawful to throw something at his head for waving a flag
In the UK you would be allowed to use any level of violence up to and including killing the person to prevent someone killing someone. And as far as I know that is the case in NZ as well and in most civilised countries.
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Old 5th May 2019, 06:32 AM   #451
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
I think the bit we are missing here is neither do I.

All I was saying is it is an act of violence because people were claiming it wasn't because he is a Nazi

You might want to relook at my post saying I don't care if he got hit by a vehicle, trod on by a horse and smashed into by the AB forward pack
Think you have a misunderstanding. As far as I have followed the arguments it has been that some people have said it is assault/violence but they will excuse that because the target is a Nazi.

That's quite a different argument to the one you seem to think they've been making.
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Old 5th May 2019, 06:37 AM   #452
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
I say that egging is not violence,




https://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/young-e...says-1.3562026

"The father of a North Vancouver boy who suffered a potentially blinding eye injury after being egged on the street is urging pranksters to consider the consequences of their actions.

Marcus van Bylandt's 13-year-old son, Matthys, was walking home along Highland Boulevard Monday evening when a black SUV-type vehicle pulled up and someone hit him in the face with an egg"


No not violent at all.
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Old 5th May 2019, 06:39 AM   #453
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
That theory only works if you haven't read my posts

THE GUY WITH THE FLAG IS RACIST SCUM WHO I WOULDN'T CARE IF HE DIED HORRIBLY.

This doesn't change the fact throwing something at some ones head is an act of violence
Perhaps you wanting to be a pendant has got you to a place you might not want to be because you have just argued yourself into saying that throwing confetti at someone at a wedding is an act of violence.....
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Old 5th May 2019, 06:43 AM   #454
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.iri...664%3fmode=amp

"Woman partially blinded in egg throwing incident seeks damages
Court told teenager threw egg from back seat of car and screamed ‘I hit her, I hit her’


No not violent at all.
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Old 5th May 2019, 07:58 AM   #455
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No, you should get your facts straight:
1) Another Nazi egged. Yes, a fact, obviously.
2) You keep saying it, but nobody's said that it's not an act of violence because he's a Nazi. No, not a fact, but you keep up the pretense that it is.
I say that egging is not violence, but I don't say so because he's a Nazi. That you're in denial about this isn't our fault.
Besides eggs, what other objects can you hit somebody with that would not constitute an act of violence?
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Old 5th May 2019, 08:07 AM   #456
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Surely we can deal with Nazis without assaulting them?
Of course we can deal with Nazis without assaulting them. Is that really a question?
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Old 5th May 2019, 09:33 AM   #457
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First they egged the Nazi's, and I didn't care, (In fact, I sort of rejoiced) because I wasn't a Nazi...
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Old 5th May 2019, 09:42 AM   #458
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Of course we can deal with Nazis without assaulting them. Is that really a question?
Certainly in the past it wasn't possible, but I do hope we can do better today but perhaps we can't, that's why I was asking.
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Old 5th May 2019, 09:51 AM   #459
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Marcus van Bylandt's 13-year-old son, Matthys, was walking home along Highland Boulevard Monday evening when a black SUV-type vehicle pulled up and someone hit him in the face with an egg"
Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Court told teenager threw egg from back seat of car and screamed ‘I hit her, I hit her’
I'm noticing a pattern.
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Old 5th May 2019, 09:54 AM   #460
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
First they egged the Nazi's, and I didn't care, (In fact, I sort of rejoiced) because I wasn't a Nazi...
The finale of this tale is

And then they egged me, and I had to go take a shower. The End.
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Old 5th May 2019, 10:02 AM   #461
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I have just unearthed new video of an act of senseless violence like egging, but on a grander and more dangerous scale.

Watch as Newt Gingrich is brutally assaulted, having not one but literally thousands, if not millions of separate objects thrown at his head...while his wife sits next to him in the line of fire.

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Old 5th May 2019, 10:09 AM   #462
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I posed questions to you and you passed. I'm not complaining about that, but it was an opportunity for you to directly engage with me if you're interested in my perspective on things.

I grew up in the SF bay area but I've lived in WA state for the past few decades. Neo nazi activity isn't abstract in this part of the country.

Just because nazis are worthy doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Commonness of a practice isn't persuasive to me.
Hilited: I sleep. I'm on the other side of the globe from you. By the time I got back to the thread it had proceeded and a lot of the material was covered. My mention of you in that post was by way of acknowledging that you had given me a similar question (which, be honest, you did proffer me the opportunity to answer or to ponder over).

My point isn't about how many nazis or neo-fascist dictators one encountered when growing up. My question relates to the common two-lane blacktop town phenomenon of kids, usually in groups, egging people or houses or cars. Milk-shaking is generally done as a drive by. They're both very common. The common penalty for those caught at it is usually "clean up the man's porch, pay for their dry cleaning bill and report to Tivoli Park on Saturdays for the next month for community service.

The freakish assault of the guy with the bloody eye is an exception, not a rule. As I said, I consider it "Assault Lite".

But, no. I have no objections to someone egging a fascist or a Republican or a Democrat or a Socialist. My proviso, which I'm rather well known for, is that they be prepared to do the time. My only criticism of the guy what clocked Richard Spencer is that he ran off.
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Old 5th May 2019, 10:09 AM   #463
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Old 5th May 2019, 10:36 AM   #464
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Originally Posted by Mike! View Post
First they egged the Nazi's, and I didn't care, (In fact, I sort of rejoiced) because I wasn't a Nazi...
I don't think a poem warning the world about being complacent in the face of the Nazis intentions is what you want to reference here.
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Old 5th May 2019, 10:47 AM   #465
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
I don't know about Mike, or anyone else in this particular thread, but "the people being mean to the Nazis are just as bad if not actually worse than the Nazis" is exactly the message that some want to send. Without question.
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Old 5th May 2019, 11:26 AM   #466
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Originally Posted by Lambchops View Post
You have no point.

You are literally trying to defend nazism.
Defending something is not synonymous with endorcing it. Hence the phrase: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
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Old 5th May 2019, 11:42 AM   #467
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Well, one thing for sure he was definitely threatened. Waste of a good nutritious egg. The same thing happens in the US of A.
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Old 5th May 2019, 12:49 PM   #468
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.iri...664%3fmode=amp

"Woman partially blinded in egg throwing incident seeks damages
Court told teenager threw egg from back seat of car and screamed ‘I hit her, I hit her’


No not violent at all.

Could you please tell us how egging a Nazi from behind could end up partially blinding him?!

Is this an irresponsible act of senseless violence?!

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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 5th May 2019, 12:58 PM   #469
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
Defending something is not synonymous with endorcing it. Hence the phrase: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
No, you have failed to comprehend that phrase correctly. The speaker is neither defending nor endorsing whatever it is his object is saying.

Note that this phrase, written by Evelyn Beatrice Hall, was a description (in her opinion) of Voltaire's attitude toward Claude Helvetius' having been persecuted by religious and political authorities for a treatise he had written about psychology (how the human mind works), which the religious authorities had considered threatening and heretical. The phrase was invented to describe Voltaire's opinion specifically about Helvetius' particular philosophy, which was certainly consistent with his attitude about religious censorship of intellectual writings in general. But people parrot this line as if it is an independent axiom, when there's no evidence it was ever intended as such. To imply that Voltaire would (and therefore we should) just as readily "defend to the death" someone's "right" to advocate genocide and praise mass-murderers as heroes is as absurd as claiming that the US "founding fathers" insistence that all citizens be allowed to keep a musket on hand in case the British tried to invade must imply they would be perfectly happy allowing citizens to own machine guns, rocket launchers, or weapons of mass destruction that had never been conceived of when they drafted their constitutional amendment. Again, citing it in defense of Nazi propaganda and white nationalist advocacy is to normalize these ideologies as just another harmless opinion, no different or less valid than any other.
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Old 5th May 2019, 12:59 PM   #470
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Originally Posted by Cainkane1 View Post
Well, one thing for sure he was definitely threatened. Waste of a good nutritious egg. The same thing happens in the US of A.

My mother was a women's hairdresser. Some of her customers brought eggs to be rubbed into their hair either before or after rinsing (I don't remember which, but I do know that she was never charged as a violent offender), so maybe the Nazi should be grateful to the egger.
What benefits do egg yolks offer for hair? (Medidal News Today, May 30, 2018)
Some of those Nazis would look much better with a "head, full of long, luxurious, hippie hair."

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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

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Old 5th May 2019, 01:07 PM   #471
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Originally Posted by CaptainHowdy View Post
Besides eggs, what other objects can you hit somebody with that would not constitute an act of violence?

Seriously?! Man, I thought all the snowflakes had thawed by now:

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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx

Last edited by dann; 5th May 2019 at 01:23 PM.
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Old 5th May 2019, 01:27 PM   #472
Checkmite
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Yet more senseless and dangerous assaults on strangers, this time in the exact same location as the Nazi from the OP was ruthlessly bullied-by-egg:

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I AGREE


This vicious and indefensible violence needs to be stopped. And obviously Union Square in New York in particular needs a heavy police presence to crack down on the assaults that seem to be a regular occurrence there.
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Old 5th May 2019, 01:46 PM   #473
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
No, you should get your facts straight:
1) Another Nazi egged. Yes, a fact, obviously.
2) You keep saying it, but nobody's said that it's not an act of violence because he's a Nazi. No, not a fact, but you keep up the pretense that it is.
I say that egging is not violence, but I don't say so because he's a Nazi. That you're in denial about this isn't our fault.
Then I again offer a challenge to you

Go to you neighbours house and throw eggs at their kids heads and post a video of their dad laughing his **** off saying it wasn't violent.

Or even easier

Simply walk to your local police station and biff eggs at the cops heads.

When they obviously get up off the floor from laughing so much you can post a video of them saying

"Hey Cullennz!! That was awesomely funny....We agree with dann here....That definitely wasn't violent"

If you are up for it
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Old 5th May 2019, 01:52 PM   #474
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Then I again offer a challenge to you

Go to you neighbours house and throw eggs at their kids heads and post a video of their dad laughing his **** off saying it wasn't violent.

Or even easier

Simply walk to your local police station and biff eggs at the cops heads.

When they obviously get up off the floor from laughing so much you can post a video of them saying

"Hey Cullennz!! That was awesomely funny....We agree with dann here....That definitely wasn't violent"

If you are up for it
I tried it with custard pies. I was arrested for attempted murder with a class 5 weapon. I'm currently serving 14 consecutive life terms and may get the chair. The judge deemed me 'The most horrific butcher in all of time'.

This may be my last message to the outside world as they are talking of 24/7 solitary confinement less my flakey crust ever ends another life.
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Old 5th May 2019, 02:21 PM   #475
Checkmite
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Simply walk to your local police station and biff eggs at the cops heads.
That isn't really a good experiment, on account of the fact that police officers have been known to arrest and even charge people with crimes they have not technically committed, in order to punish certain behaviors they don't like (like bystanders video-recording arrests, or directing foul language at an officer, for two very prolific examples).

Also, are we supposed to be black when doing this, or not? It's kind of an important detail, since it would mean the difference between facing a fine and/or potential jail time and facing potential summary execution.
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Old 5th May 2019, 02:24 PM   #476
dann
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Then I again offer a challenge to you

Go to you neighbours house and throw eggs at their kids heads and post a video of their dad laughing his **** off saying it wasn't violent.

Or even easier

Simply walk to your local police station and biff eggs at the cops heads.

When they obviously get up off the floor from laughing so much you can post a video of them saying

"Hey Cullennz!! That was awesomely funny....We agree with dann here....That definitely wasn't violent"

If you are up for it

For some reason I thought that social injustice warriors were supposed to have a sense of humor.
Well, apparently not.
Let's ask Wikipedia for help, then:

Quote:
Egging of a person's face can cause serious injuries and eye injury, and may constitute assault and battery.
Egging (Wikipedia)

You guys seem to be in denial about the way the Nazi from the video was attacked: Nobody threw an egg at his face, which is what happened in all your awful tales.
And in your case, cullennz: There are several things that I wouldn't recommend doing to cops because they might have repercussions. That doesn't mean that they constitute violence, which is what you seem to imply.
I also like this paragraph in the article about egging:

Quote:
In Brazil it is common to throw eggs at someone on their birthday, with or without their consent, as a friendly prank among the younger. Usually, wheat flour is also poured on the person's head after the eggs, with the idea of "a cake being made on their heads". This was common in the 80s and it is still performed, such as the Guarani FC midfielder José Fernando Fumagalli, that had eggs and wheat flour thrown by his team colleagues in his 40th birthday in 2017, along with his eventual retirement announcement.
The tradition originated in the 1980s, in Mexico, where it was common to break "cascarones" (eggshells) on a person's head at their birthday party as a vow of good fortune. The eggs were usually filled with confetti and colored with dye or crayons.
Egging: In other cultures (Wikipedia)

I can't imagine how many Mexicans have lost their eyesight on that account.

Related: Pieing (Wikipedia) This case from Sweden makes me wonder if the hen laying the egg can be considered an accomplice to the crime:

Quote:
In September 2001, the Swedish king Carl XVI Gustaf was visiting Varberg when a 16-year-old boy threw a strawberry tart at him. Such an attack could possibly have counted as high treason under Swedish law, which would have warranted a long prison sentence. However, the perpetrator was only convicted of assault, as it could not be proven that his action was politically motivated. He was later ordered to pay day-fines. Two other boys, who had helped to prepare the attack by making the tart, were also fined.
Pieing: Political acts: Convicted: Sweden (Wikipedia)
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"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 5th May 2019, 02:31 PM   #477
dann
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Originally Posted by Checkmite View Post
Also, are we supposed to be black when doing this, or not? It's kind of an important detail, since it would mean the difference between facing a fine and/or potential jail time and facing potential summary execution.

And what if the egged policeman is black and "wheat flour is also poured on the person's head after the eggs" - like in Brazil?! Could the policeman then be accused of donning whiteface?!
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/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 5th May 2019, 02:32 PM   #478
cullennz
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Originally Posted by dann View Post
For some reason I thought that social injustice warriors were supposed to have a sense of humor.
Well, apparently not.
Let's ask Wikipedia for help, then:




You guys seem to be in denial about the way the Nazi from the video was attacked: Nobody threw an egg at his face, which is what happened in all your awful tales.
And in your case, cullennz: There are several things that I wouldn't recommend doing to cops because they might have repercussions. That doesn't mean that they constitute violence, which is what you seem to imply.
I also like this paragraph in the article about egging:




I can't imagine how many Mexicans have lost their eyesight on that account.

Related: Pieing (Wikipedia) This case from Sweden makes me wonder if the hen laying the egg can be considered an accomplice to the crime:
You are making excuses now

You say it isn't violence.

It isn't like the cops can charge you with anything, right?

Take a towel so they can dry themselves off and they will be fine.
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 5th May 2019, 02:39 PM   #479
dann
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I almost forgot:

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Then I again offer a challenge to you

I offer a challenge to you!

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
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/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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Old 5th May 2019, 02:41 PM   #480
dann
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You are making excuses now

You say it isn't violence.

It isn't like the cops can charge you with anything, right?

Take a towel so they can dry themselves off and they will be fine.

When and where did I claim that I couldn't be charged with anything?
I said that I didn't care if it was illegal or not.
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/dann
"Stupidity renders itself invisible by assuming very large proportions. Completely unreasonable claims are irrefutable. Ni-en-leh pointed out that a philosopher might get into trouble by claiming that two times two makes five, but he does not risk much by claiming that two times two makes shoe polish." B. Brecht
"The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness. The demand to give up the illusion about its condition is the demand to give up a condition which needs illusions." K. Marx
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