ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Tags aircraft

Reply
Old 9th May 2019, 09:33 PM   #41
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,914
Me 323 Gigant

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_323

http://ww2live.com/sites/default/fil...1003221029.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped..._shootdown.JPG

Last edited by zooterkin; 12th May 2019 at 03:10 PM. Reason: Rule 5
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th May 2019, 09:39 PM   #42
8enotto
Muse
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mexico
Posts: 774
Have you seen a German 109 close up? Big guys need not apply to those squadrons. That tiny cockpit with with about 2" of elbow room each side.

Tiny one seaters must have been cheaper to produce in numbers. Only the big radial engine models had an ample cockpit.
8enotto is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th May 2019, 09:41 PM   #43
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,914
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armstr...itworth_F.K.10

http://flyingmachines.ru/Images7/Putnam/AW/74-1.jpg

http://flyingmachines.ru/Images7/Putnam/AW/76-1.jpg

Last edited by zooterkin; 12th May 2019 at 03:11 PM. Reason: Rule 5
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th May 2019, 10:04 PM   #44
Disbelief
Master Poster
 
Disbelief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,603
How about a 2-seater A-10? Love the Warthog, but only 2 of these were built.

http://aviationintel.com/it-could-ha...the-a-10b-naw/
__________________
Zensmack (LastChild, Laughing Assassin, RazetheFlag, Wastrel, TruthbyDecree) - Working his way up the sock puppet chain, trying to overtake P'Doh. Or, are they the same?

Quote me where I said conspiracists use evidence. - mchapman
Disbelief is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 01:02 AM   #45
The Great Zaganza
Maledictorian
 
The Great Zaganza's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 8,535
Originally Posted by Disbelief View Post
How about a 2-seater A-10? Love the Warthog, but only 2 of these were built.

http://aviationintel.com/it-could-ha...the-a-10b-naw/
works against Decepticons.
__________________
Careful! That tree's bark is worse than its bite.
The Great Zaganza is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 02:54 AM   #46
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,170
Originally Posted by novaphile View Post
How about a De Havilland Vampire?

Always looked vaguely "Thunderbirds" to me...

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Or, the mighty 'Sea Vixen' the final 'twin tail' aircraft.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 06:08 AM   #47
Delvo
الشيطان الأبيض
 
Delvo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Posts: 7,959
I get a bit confuzzled every time I'm reminded that flying boats/seaplanes aren't standard in every coastal search & rescue agency.

If you're looking for somebody as fast as you can, you need a plane. But to actually help when you do find them, you need to put some people & assets on the surface. Solution? A plane that can go right down to the surface immediately. Except... apparently not.
Delvo is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 06:37 AM   #48
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 35,676
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I get a bit confuzzled every time I'm reminded that flying boats/seaplanes aren't standard in every coastal search & rescue agency.

If you're looking for somebody as fast as you can, you need a plane. But to actually help when you do find them, you need to put some people & assets on the surface. Solution? A plane that can go right down to the surface immediately. Except... apparently not.
Some seafaring nations seem to prefer the combination of ship and boat and helicopter.

I imagine with a plane it can be difficult to safely land close enough to be of help, but far enough away to avoid the risk of landing on the people you're trying to help.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 07:04 AM   #49
Armitage72
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,948
Military plane aficionados have probably already heard of it, but the McDonnell XF-85 Goblin.

Basically a jet engine with a seat, stubby wings, and machine guns added on, meant to be carried inside a bomber and released from the bomb bay to defend against enemy fighters.


EDIT: Speaking of seaplanes, the Convair F2Y Sea Dart, a supersonic seaplane fighter jet, created as a prototype when it was believed that supersonic jets would be unable to launch from aircraft carriers.

Last edited by Armitage72; 10th May 2019 at 07:09 AM.
Armitage72 is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 07:21 AM   #50
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,767
Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
EDIT: Speaking of seaplanes, the Convair F2Y Sea Dart, a supersonic seaplane fighter jet, created as a prototype when it was believed that supersonic jets would be unable to launch from aircraft carriers.
This one I did not know of. It's a Hydrofoil!
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 07:37 AM   #51
Dave Rogers
Bandaged ice that stampedes inexpensively through a scribbled morning waving necessary ankles
 
Dave Rogers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cair Paravel, according to XKCD
Posts: 29,113
Originally Posted by Armitage72 View Post
Military plane aficionados have probably already heard of it, but the McDonnell XF-85 Goblin.

Basically a jet engine with a seat, stubby wings, and machine guns added on, meant to be carried inside a bomber and released from the bomb bay to defend against enemy fighters.
And, of course, its precursor, the Soviet Zveno concept, which in its final form consisted of a TB-3 bomber with two Polikarpov I-16s carried under the wings, a combination that carried out several combat missions in the early days of the Great Patriotic War.

Dave
__________________
Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Tony Szamboti: That is right
Dave Rogers is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 07:40 AM   #52
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,170
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I get a bit confuzzled every time I'm reminded that flying boats/seaplanes aren't standard in every coastal search & rescue agency.

If you're looking for somebody as fast as you can, you need a plane. But to actually help when you do find them, you need to put some people & assets on the surface. Solution? A plane that can go right down to the surface immediately. Except... apparently not.
Landing conditions have to be just right to land and take off safely.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 07:46 AM   #53
Pope130
Illuminator
 
Pope130's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,019
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I get a bit confuzzled every time I'm reminded that flying boats/seaplanes aren't standard in every coastal search & rescue agency.

If you're looking for somebody as fast as you can, you need a plane. But to actually help when you do find them, you need to put some people & assets on the surface. Solution? A plane that can go right down to the surface immediately. Except... apparently not.
A significant factor is sea state. Flying boats require pretty smooth water to take off. They can land it much worse conditions, which resulted in a number of incidents in WW-II where rescue craft landed and recovered survivors, but were then forced to wait on rescue themselves.

Compound designs, like the V-22 Osprey, that provide the speed of a fixed wing, and the hover capability of a helicopter are a better design than flying boats for rescue operations.
Attached Images
File Type: png untitled.png (69.5 KB, 200 views)

Last edited by Pope130; 10th May 2019 at 09:16 AM. Reason: Spell check only tells you it's a real word.
Pope130 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 07:49 AM   #54
Crossbow
Seeking Honesty and Sanity
 
Crossbow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 12,705
There are some really cool kit planes out there if anyone is interested.

One of my favorites (if I could ever afford such a thing), would be the 'Sonnex Jet'.

https://www.sonexaircraft.com/subsonex/
__________________
On 22 JUL 2016, Candidate Donald Trump in his acceptance speech: "There can be no prosperity without law and order."
On 05 FEB 2019, President Donald Trump said in his Sate of the Union Address: "If there is going to be peace and legislation, there cannot be war and investigation."
On 15 FEB 2019 'BobTheCoward' said: "I constantly assert I am a fool."
A man's best friend is his dogma.
Crossbow is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 12:36 PM   #55
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,185
As a WWII aircraft obsessed kid, we had a general aviation airport within bike-riding distance, and in those days security wasn't even an afterthought.

There were some WWII birds on the tarmac - civilian owned - and one of them was this, The F7F:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


It was beautiful, loud and fast. The owner/pilot wasn't bothered by kids questions and I believe that's why one of my friends ended up in the AF as a pilot.

I only went as far as jumping out of 'em.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus

Last edited by BStrong; 10th May 2019 at 01:00 PM.
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 12:47 PM   #56
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,767
Fixed your link:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 01:01 PM   #57
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,185
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Fixed your link:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE
Good catch, thanks!
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 01:11 PM   #58
3point14
Pi
 
3point14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 17,767
Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Good catch, thanks!
You weren't kidding about the noise, were you?!
__________________
Up the River!

Anyone that wraps themselves in the Union Flag and also lives in tax exile is a [redacted]
3point14 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 01:56 PM   #59
BStrong
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,185
Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
You weren't kidding about the noise, were you?!
There were a couple of P-51's flying out of San Carlos at the same time and a bunch of T-6's.

If you were listening, you could always tell when the F7F took off - the twins had a sound all their own - the P51's made their own music but the F7 was my fav at the time.
__________________
"When a man who is honestly mistaken, hears the truth, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest." - Anonymous

"Dulce bellum inexpertīs." - Erasmus
BStrong is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 04:36 PM   #60
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,914
Curtiss F9C Sparrowhawk

A conventional looking if small aircrafted designed to be an airship carried plane, or parasite aircraft.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtiss_F9C_Sparrowhawk






Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 05:27 PM   #61
Axxman300
Illuminator
 
Axxman300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central California Coast
Posts: 3,853
[IMG][/IMG]

Tacit Blue, the competitor to the Have Blue/F-117.
__________________
Disingenuous Piranha
Axxman300 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 05:58 PM   #62
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 35,676
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
http://i64.tinypic.com/1cgtu.jpg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://i64.tinypic.c.../1cgtu.jpg</a>



Tacit Blue, the competitor to the Have Blue/F-117.
As I understand it, the competitor to the Have Blue prototype was a Northrop XST prototype that had a much higher side RCS:

https://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/me...rig-1714177698

Tacit Blue was a follow on project by Northrop. It was a tech demonstrator that combined new battlefield surveillance radars with a steathlier airframe. The radars went on to furnish the JSTARS planes. The lessons learned from the airframe went on to inform the design of the B-2.
theprestige is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th May 2019, 06:31 PM   #63
Pope130
Illuminator
 
Pope130's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,019
Originally Posted by Axxman300 View Post
http://i64.tinypic.com/1cgtu.jpg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://i64.tinypic.c.../1cgtu.jpg</a>

Tacit Blue, the competitor to the Have Blue/F-117.
"It's a Winnebago, with wings."
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Spaceballs(2).jpg (39.1 KB, 6 views)
Pope130 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2019, 02:04 PM   #64
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 22,105
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Eech, the drag those eight wingtips must have caused, not to mention all those strut attachments. With a 110 hp engine ... that would have been one slow bird.


Hans
__________________
Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2019, 02:13 PM   #65
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 22,105
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I get a bit confuzzled every time I'm reminded that flying boats/seaplanes aren't standard in every coastal search & rescue agency.

If you're looking for somebody as fast as you can, you need a plane. But to actually help when you do find them, you need to put some people & assets on the surface. Solution? A plane that can go right down to the surface immediately. Except... apparently not.
Well, problem is that a seaplane needs reasonably calm water to land on, not to mention take off from. And that is often not available when sea emergencies happen.

Also, helicopters have taken that slot: No need to actually land on those choppy seas when you can just hoist stuff and people in and out.

Even sea helicopters like the Sikorsky S61 Sea King, while having sea landing capability, was rarely used such.

Do note, though, that quite a number of downed WW2 pilots owed their lives to Supermarine Walrus seaplanes.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ine_Walrus.jpg

In itself a weird and notable plane.

Hans
__________________
Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2019, 02:25 PM   #66
Red Baron Farms
Illuminator
 
Red Baron Farms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 4,713
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_Ilya_Muromets
Apparently the images feature is experiencing technical difficulties at the moment.

images wikimedia commons

Some people know about this plane, but I just learned about it only a few years back. A Russian 4 engine bomber with a pressurized cabin in WWI!

Only 1 was ever shot down, and in doing so it shot down 3 of the four fighters attacking it!

Amazing advanced technology in the earliest days of flight from the famously genius mind of Igor Sikorsky, the Ilya Muromets heavy bomber.
__________________
Scott
"Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison
Biome Carbon Cycle Management

Last edited by Red Baron Farms; 11th May 2019 at 02:31 PM.
Red Baron Farms is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2019, 03:31 PM   #67
jonesdave116
Illuminator
 
jonesdave116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 3,495
Does anyone else struggle with 'airplanes' and 'aeroplanes'? I prefer the latter. However, I'm British. The former seems to be more common in the U.S.

Anybody ever seen a Vulcan bomber up close and personal? Sex on wings!
__________________
“There is in every village a torch - the teacher; and an extinguisher - the priest.” - Victor Hugo

“Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
jonesdave116 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th May 2019, 09:24 PM   #68
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,914
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Eech, the drag those eight wingtips must have caused, not to mention all those strut attachments. With a 110 hp engine ... that would have been one slow bird.


Hans
84 mph (135 km/h; 73 kn) at 6,500 ft (2,000 m)
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2019, 06:06 AM   #69
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 22,105
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
84 mph (135 km/h; 73 kn) at 6,500 ft (2,000 m)
Yeah. That's slow for a fighter of its era.

Hans
__________________
Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2019, 11:48 AM   #70
Hans
Philosopher
 
Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 7,914
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post
Yeah. That's slow for a fighter of its era.

Hans
Yeah even for a two-seater it was slow. a German 1916 fighter the Albatross D-II was capable of: 175 km/h (110 mph)
Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2019, 12:16 PM   #71
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 22,105
A slow fighter is a dead fighter. There has been certain situations where agility had the upper hand (the Finns with Brewster Buffaloes, Malta with Gladiators) but those are special situations where a fast fighter HAS to dogfight with a slow but agile one.

In general, speed counts.

Hans
__________________
Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2019, 02:09 PM   #72
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,170
Originally Posted by Hans View Post
Add the Wight Quadruplane to this one.
Another similar quad winged aircraft with a similar lack of success.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wight_Quadruplane

Or the much bigger Pemberton-Billing Nighthawk. A twin engined quad with a 37mm cannon and searchlight.

It had an endurance of 18 hours and was supposed to be able to wait all night for a Zeppelin to arrive and then shoot it down.
Unfortunately it only made about 60 mph and took over an hour to reach 10,000 feet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Nighthawk

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 12th May 2019 at 02:13 PM.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2019, 02:19 PM   #73
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,170
An interesting concept was the General Aircraft Fleet Shadower.

Designed in the 30s as an early 'stealth' aircraft. It was very quiet and had a very long endurance. It could shadow enemy warships at night out of hearing and sight. It had a stall speed of only 39 knots.

It was superseded by radar and never saw widespread service going in to service in 1940 and being retired in 41.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genera...Fleet_Shadower
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2019, 02:48 PM   #74
Pope130
Illuminator
 
Pope130's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,019
Caproni Campini

The Caproni Campini was sort of a jet aircraft. Powered by a "Thermojet" engine, it was the second jet powered aircraft to fly (after the Heinkel He.178). The thermojet consisted of a multi-stage compressor section, driven by a conventional piston engine. The compressor flow was used to cool the piston engine, then combined with the engine exhaust and fed to the burner section where fuel was added and burned, then straight to the exhaust with no turbine section. In modern terms it could be considered a ducted fan with an afterburner.

Actual performance was lower than conventional aircraft just using the same piston engine.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg maxresdefault.jpg (66.7 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg caproni_campini_n1_jet_aircraft.jpg (21.8 KB, 7 views)
Pope130 is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th May 2019, 02:53 PM   #75
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,170
It was not a jet engine. It was powered by a petrol engine and prop, they just put the prop in a tube.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 01:16 AM   #76
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 22,105
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Add the Wight Quadruplane to this one.
Another similar quad winged aircraft with a similar lack of success.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wight_Quadruplane


Or the much bigger Pemberton-Billing Nighthawk. A twin engined quad with a 37mm cannon and searchlight.

It had an endurance of 18 hours and was supposed to be able to wait all night for a Zeppelin to arrive and then shoot it down.
Unfortunately it only made about 60 mph and took over an hour to reach 10,000 feet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Nighthawk
The idea of the multiplane designs was, of course, to get maneuverability. Short, narrow wings give a high roll rate, and then you add enough to get sufficient lift. Unfortunately, the cost in drag and complexity quickly became unsustainable. Even the triple plane designs, while having quite some success, suffered from inferior speed performance.

Hans
__________________
Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 01:22 AM   #77
MRC_Hans
Penultimate Amazing
 
MRC_Hans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 22,105
Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
It was not a jet engine. It was powered by a petrol engine and prop, they just put the prop in a tube.
A matter of definition, of course, but I think Pope130 termed it accurately: A ducted fan with an afterburner.

More competent design might have rendered it a usable concept, but the
(high) weight/power ratio and (low) efficiency of the piston engine would always leave it mediocre at best.

OTOH, it could be built with the technology of the time. This was only marginally true of real jets.

Hans
__________________
Experience is an excellent teacher, but she sends large bills.
MRC_Hans is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 01:34 AM   #78
Captain_Swoop
Penultimate Amazing
 
Captain_Swoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 21,170
Originally Posted by MRC_Hans View Post

OTOH, it could be built with the technology of the time. This was only marginally true of real jets.

Hans
It depends how you define 'the time' the Gloster Meteor served for decades with air forces around rthe globe. The RAF retired it's last few working as target tugs in the 80's.
Martin Baker still operate two as test aircraft.

It's engine theRolls-Royce Derwent was used in all kinds of applications for many decades.

It can't be compared with the contemporary German Jumo that needed a rebuild every 8 or so hours.
Captain_Swoop is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 03:49 AM   #79
BillC
Bazooka Joe
 
BillC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,743
Originally Posted by Delvo View Post
I get a bit confuzzled every time I'm reminded that flying boats/seaplanes aren't standard in every coastal search & rescue agency.

If you're looking for somebody as fast as you can, you need a plane. But to actually help when you do find them, you need to put some people & assets on the surface. Solution? A plane that can go right down to the surface immediately. Except... apparently not.
This strikes me as well with ASW aircraft. After searching with airborne radar or magnetic anomaly sensors, a seaplane would be able to then land on the water and conduct a sonar search. (Or vice-versa.)
BillC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 13th May 2019, 04:05 AM   #80
BillC
Bazooka Joe
 
BillC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 3,743
The Edgley Optica was a weird one. It came to prominence for two reasons: being flown by Mark Hamill in the 1989 movie Slipstream, and for a crash which killed the police pilot and his passenger.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgley_Optica
BillC is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Science, Mathematics, Medicine, and Technology

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:00 AM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.