IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 9th April 2021, 05:04 PM   #2721
dirtywick
Illuminator
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,318
Nope. I pointed out why I felt yours was flawed. You didnít really care to address that so you can continue to use it if you choose
dirtywick is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th April 2021, 05:28 PM   #2722
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,682
*DELETED*

ETA:
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

Last edited by d4m10n; 9th April 2021 at 05:59 PM.
d4m10n is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th April 2021, 09:17 AM   #2723
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,481
Can you believe the audacity of this.....female presenting person who's steeped in white privilege.....to actually suggest the people change and should be forgiven for past transgressions ?

SARAH SILVERMAN WARNS AGAINST CANCEL CULTURE

Quote:
The comedian, a proud progressive, acknowledges that progressives are the ones largely pushing cancel culture, but believes people can change.
Somebody who's previously appeared in blackface.

We've seen with the whole Teen Vogue lesson that this is impossible. That which has been said cannot be unsaid and must follow the offender to the grave and possibly beyond.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th April 2021, 09:46 AM   #2724
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 97,797
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Can you believe the audacity of this.....female presenting person who's steeped in white privilege.....to actually suggest the people change and should be forgiven for past transgressions ?

SARAH SILVERMAN WARNS AGAINST CANCEL CULTURE



Somebody who's previously appeared in blackface.

We've seen with the whole Teen Vogue lesson that this is impossible. That which has been said cannot be unsaid and must follow the offender to the grave and possibly beyond.
Why do you think she is being audacious and why call her ďfemaleĒ rather than person, is her sex important to your point?
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th April 2021, 09:54 AM   #2725
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,481
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
Why do you think she is being audacious and why call her ďfemaleĒ rather than person, is her sex important to your point?
Audacious for going against lessons learned form examples posted on this thread, Teen Vogue being only one of those and female presenting person to display my extensive grasp of cutting progressive ideology and terminology.

Can't have people thinking I'm some sort of right winger now can I ?
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th April 2021, 10:09 AM   #2726
Darat
Lackey
Administrator
 
Darat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: South East, UK
Posts: 97,797
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Audacious for going against lessons learned form examples posted on this thread, Teen Vogue being only one of those and female presenting person to display my extensive grasp of cutting progressive ideology and terminology.

Can't have people thinking I'm some sort of right winger now can I ?
I have no idea what you are trying to communicate.
__________________
I wish I knew how to quit you
Darat is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th April 2021, 10:19 AM   #2727
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,481
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I have no idea what you are trying to communicate.
1) That Sarah Silverman isn't really a progressive due to deviation from demonstrated progressive orthodoxy.

2) Sarah Silverman is female presenting and to describe he as such is to avoid pitfalls like "adult human female" which is, as any serious progressive would know, can be construed as transphobic.

3) Practically begging for a refutation and evidence that Silverman's characterization of cancel culture being largely pushed by progressives when we all know it's the right wing media that's doing that. I'd do my own research but my internet connection is currently down.

4)I'm virtue signalling.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th April 2021, 11:32 AM   #2728
dirtywick
Illuminator
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,318
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
1) That Sarah Silverman isn't really a progressive due to deviation from demonstrated progressive orthodoxy.

2) Sarah Silverman is female presenting and to describe he as such is to avoid pitfalls like "adult human female" which is, as any serious progressive would know, can be construed as transphobic.

3) Practically begging for a refutation and evidence that Silverman's characterization of cancel culture being largely pushed by progressives when we all know it's the right wing media that's doing that. I'd do my own research but my internet connection is currently down.

4)I'm virtue signalling.
Since the rest of your points are baggage from elsewhere, the right wing media is being criticized for largely pushing the “dangerous new thing the left is doing” narrative while gladly participating in it themselves when it’s target is someone or some thing they don’t like. In fact, recent speeches and communications from prominent right wing figures specifically call for cancellation because they feel it’s effective and they don’t do it enough.

Besides, she is calling for forgiveness to people who have repented for their sins against orthodox progression, which is much different than denouncing cancel culture. In that vein, plenty of people have been cancelled and still deserve it.
dirtywick is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th April 2021, 12:05 PM   #2729
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,481
Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Since the rest of your points are baggage from elsewhere, the right wing media is being criticized for largely pushing the ďdangerous new thing the left is doingĒ narrative while gladly participating in it themselves when itís target is someone or some thing they donít like. In fact, recent speeches and communications from prominent right wing figures specifically call for cancellation because they feel itís effective and they donít do it enough.

Besides, she is calling for forgiveness to people who have repented for their sins against orthodox progression, which is much different than denouncing cancel culture. In that vein, plenty of people have been cancelled and still deserve it.
Well, the title of the article is literally Sarah Silverman Warns Against cancel Culture and she literally says that progressives are the ones largely pushing cancel culture your issue is with Silverman's description of cancel culture, not my baggage or the right wing media.

I'm fully aware that we progressive types frequently take our ideology too seriously and bristle at the thought that sometimes we can act like total morons by making mountains out of mole hills like we did with Sharon Osbourne's cancellation. She didn't say anything racist, Piers Morgan didn't say anything racist was merely " it's the implication and the reaction to it." according to Sheryl Underwood.

So not believing someone who was black...is racist ? If a black person told you 911 was an inside job and you as a white person refuted that idea, then by these standards, the standards of woke, any white person who disagreed best keep their mouth shut lest they face accusations of...well, you know.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th April 2021, 12:14 PM   #2730
dirtywick
Illuminator
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,318
I read the article past the title.
dirtywick is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th April 2021, 01:47 PM   #2731
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,182
Originally Posted by Mumbles View Post
The phrase "Cancel Culture" is designed to be tough and fearful. "There's a Culture that they (you know who they are) have where they crush...kill...Cancel those unlike them!"

Great for a moral panic, but in the end, all you see standard left wingers doing is saying "WWait, why isn't Trump 'cancelling" sports leagues, sugary drinks, and the like? And how are we "canceling" things we never even said anything about, much less organized against?" And the answer is, as I said, it's not a coherently defined term.

ETA: there's no *massive* disagreement that, say, sometimes people are fired unfairly for a social media post, some people who get attacked on Youtube for screaming and howling in public are really just having a mental illness episode and need help - although where these lines are drawn, exactly, is debatable. But adding "culture" to what moves it away from any individual boycott, and into the horrifying idea that there's some unspecified, but clearly *implied* mob that just goes around seeking revenge for petty offenses, something like a volcano god or dragon that can only be appeased through sacrifices or slaughtered - an ascribing of ill will to what are, rally, events that are effectively unrelated when you examine them.
On the other hand, I see it as perfectly justified to visit the wrath of the public on people like Amy Cooper (Central Park Karen) whose racist behaviour in public was captured on video and went viral on you-tube. Her racist diatribe was not illegal, and even if she had not called the cops (which was illegal) her other actions were morally reprehensible and deserved the ire of the public - she was a victim of cancel culture who was made a social pariah, and thoroughly deserved everything she got.

Then there is this woman, Debra Hunter...

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/n...-1/6979453002/

...who deliberately coughed on a woman videoing her having an argument in a store. Disgusting, and illegal as well - second degree assault.

Hunter has been well and truly cancelled... she's received "nastygrams" on social media and long time friends that won't talk to her any more, but best of all, the courts are going to cancel her too... for 30 days behind bars, six months probation, a compulsory anger management course and a $500 fine. And who did she blame for all this? Why the person who posted the video of course! Hunter is the very embodiment of white privilege - someone who has probably lived all her life without ever having to face consequences for her behaviour. Nope, she really has no-one else to blame but herself for the trouble she is in now, and she is about to learn that bad actions have unpleasant consequences.

And that is the issue here; its why I am perfectly happy to see the Debras and the Amys of this world get what is coming to them - ostracism, fired from their jobs, losing customers/clients/friends, made pariahs in their own communities and dog-piled on Social Media. Its all deserved, every bit of it, and it sends out a clear message about acceptable behaviour to other would-be Karens and Chads.
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; 11th April 2021 at 01:49 PM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th April 2021, 01:53 PM   #2732
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 24,303
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I thought "cancel culture" was about people getting fired for saying things unrelated to their job.

An writer about the outdoors losing popularity because he reveals himself to be anti-gun is pretty directly related to his job performance.

Next time I have a negative job performance review I'm going to accuse my boss of "cancelling" me.

You are either grossly ignorant of the circumstances or in denial.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th April 2021, 01:55 PM   #2733
catsmate
No longer the 1
 
catsmate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 24,303
Originally Posted by Darat View Post
I have no idea what you are trying to communicate.
Spewing smoke to cover reality.
__________________
As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.
catsmate is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 03:35 AM   #2734
SuburbanTurkey
Philosopher
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 8,495
Originally Posted by catsmate View Post

You are either grossly ignorant of the circumstances or in denial.
Care to elaborate?

Would it be "cancel culture" if a writer for a mostly vegetarian or vegan audience lost popular support if that writer advocated occasionally eating meat?

If Bill Nye came out as a flat-earther, do you think that would affect his popularity among his current base of support that see themselves as pro-science?

A hunting and shooting writer coming out in support of gun culture is in direct opposition to dearly held values of that target audience. It's an extremely foreseeable and even reasonable response for him to lose support abruptly.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 04:59 AM   #2735
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,682
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
Would it be "cancel culture" if a writer for a mostly vegetarian or vegan audience lost popular support if that writer advocated occasionally eating meat?
Under what definition of "cancel culture" is it *not* cancel culture for a public figure to lose support for saying something offensive?

Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Nope. I pointed out why I felt yours was flawed. You didn’t really care to address that so you can continue to use it if you choose
Have you provided a viable alternative?
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

Last edited by d4m10n; 12th April 2021 at 05:09 AM.
d4m10n is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 05:57 AM   #2736
SuburbanTurkey
Philosopher
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 8,495
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Under what definition of "cancel culture" is it *not* cancel culture for a public figure to lose support for saying something offensive?
I fail to see how a public figure alienating their audience and suffering a loss of popularity as any novel or noteworthy phenomena that merits a new term nor hand wringing.

In the example of the gun writer coming out as a Fudd, that's not even a personal scandal a la Bill Cosby or Weinstein, but something that speaks directly to his expertise and his position as a respected voice on the subject matter.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 06:29 AM   #2737
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,682
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
I fail to see how a public figure alienating their audience and suffering a loss of popularity as any novel or noteworthy phenomena that merits a new term nor hand wringing.
I don't think a phenomenon needs to be new to be noteworthy. "Rape culture" is a relatively new coinage, but it certainly isn't a new thing.

As to hand-wringing, I suppose that depends on whether hunting culture and assault rifle culture are indeed heavily overlapping. Last I checked they were not, but that was decades ago. I'd defer to the expert here, but he's the one who got cancelled.
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
In the example of the gun writer coming out as a Fudd, that's not even a personal scandal a la Bill Cosby or Weinstein, but something that speaks directly to his expertise and his position as a respected voice on the subject matter.
Is there a working definition of "cancel culture" which incorporates this distinction?
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

Last edited by d4m10n; 12th April 2021 at 06:30 AM.
d4m10n is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 06:34 AM   #2738
SuburbanTurkey
Philosopher
 
SuburbanTurkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 8,495
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
I don't think a phenomenon needs to be new to be noteworthy. "Rape culture" is a relatively new coinage, but it certainly isn't a new thing.

As to hand-wringing, I suppose that depends on whether hunting culture and assault rifle culture are indeed heavily overlapping. Last I checked they were not, but that was decades ago. I'd defer to the expert here, but he's the one who got cancelled.Is there a working definition of "cancel culture" which incorporates this distinction?
Beats me. I don't think "cancel culture" is a thing beyond a purposely ambiguous term, largely used by reactionaries, to smear all criticisms and expectations of conduct as illegitimate or unreasonable.

As such, I don't have a definition beyond that.
__________________
Gobble gobble
SuburbanTurkey is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 06:46 AM   #2739
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,682
Originally Posted by SuburbanTurkey View Post
As such, I don't have a definition beyond that.
If only there were some working definition which has already been repeatedly linked. Ah well.
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin
d4m10n is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 08:01 AM   #2740
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,481
Given that Sarah Silverman has not only warned us about the pitfalls of cancel culture but also promulgated the idea that progressives are the ones largely pushing cancel culture we would be remiss in our duties as progressives who possess superior moral compasses to point out that cancel culture denial most likely has it's roots in misogyny.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 02:08 PM   #2741
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 22,929
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Given that Sarah Silverman has not only warned us about the pitfalls of cancel culture but also promulgated the idea that progressives are the ones largely pushing cancel culture we would be remiss in our duties as progressives who possess superior moral compasses to point out that cancel culture denial most likely has it's roots in misogyny.
You seem to be rather unaware of who Sarah Silverman is. I recommend the documentary The Aristocrats for some background.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 02:13 PM   #2742
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 22,929
Some wholesome cancel culture at its best. A shop owner paid his employee his final pay check of $915 in pennies coated with oil. This made the news. Now the shop is getting lots of bad online reviews. My pearls have been firmly clutched.

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/26/98148...eck-in-pennies

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/90000...b66c4ab6b555b0

Quote:
A OK Walker Autoworks has received a flood of negative Yelp and Google reviews in the aftermath of the strange penny saga.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 03:26 PM   #2743
dirtywick
Illuminator
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,318
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post

Have you provided a viable alternative?
Of course not. I think, I mean literally as literally here, the only interesting thing about cancel culture is how itís being used as a political wedge by certain individuals. The ability to call any online interaction they donít like or negative reaction to messages on their side a cancellation, and the flexibility to avoid hypocrisy by simply shifting the definition as needed, by keeping the definition vague is the engine that keeps the game going. You want me to define it, but keeping it poorly defined is how it works.

The left pushes cancellations, but when the right does it, it isnít a cancellation because thatís something scary the left is doing and theyíre coming for you next.

Thatís the only thing ďnewĒ about cancel culture.
dirtywick is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 03:50 PM   #2744
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,682
Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
The left pushes cancellations, but when the right does it, it isn’t a cancellation because that’s something scary the left is doing and they’re coming for you next.
Is anyone here in this thread pushing this double standard? (If not, why bring it up?)

Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
You want me to define it, but keeping it poorly defined is how it works.
We're going to continue to disagree on whether dictionary.com did poorly when defining this phrase.
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

Last edited by d4m10n; 12th April 2021 at 03:52 PM.
d4m10n is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 04:24 PM   #2745
dirtywick
Illuminator
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,318
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Is anyone here in this thread pushing this double standard? (If not, why bring it up?)
I think, to a certain extent, if you ignore the broader context of the environment that this cancel culture national dialogue is happening it favors the idea that the double standard doesnít exist or that one side of the political spectrum is primarily responsible for it, or that itís inherently bad. As to why I brought it up, itís whatís going on in the world whether or not specific individuals in this discussion are actively promoting it. I think itís much more important and interesting to talk a lot the broader effects rather than details of specific incidents to try and score gotcha points.

Quote:
We're going to continue to disagree on whether dictionary.com did poorly when defining this phrase.
Yeah it seems so. I mean, itís absolutely a definition. Definitely vague enough to describe almost any interaction you want. I guess in that regard it is good.
dirtywick is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 04:38 PM   #2746
dudalb
Penultimate Amazing
 
dudalb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 50,537
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
Given that Sarah Silverman has not only warned us about the pitfalls of cancel culture but also promulgated the idea that progressives are the ones largely pushing cancel culture we would be remiss in our duties as progressives who possess superior moral compasses to point out that cancel culture denial most likely has it's roots in misogyny.
Sarah Silverman's whole "Someone who looks like the classic Nice Jewish Girl says four letter words and says shocking things" shtick got old a long time ago.
__________________
Pacifism is a shifty doctrine under which a man accepts the benefits of the social group without being willing to pay - and claims a halo for his dishonesty.

Robert Heinlein.
dudalb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 04:49 PM   #2747
dirtywick
Illuminator
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,318
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post

We're going to continue to disagree on whether dictionary.com did poorly when defining this phrase.
Iíll comment on this real quick a little further. A key component, perhaps the most important, of cancel culture is people being fired for conduct unrelated to their jobs. For example, Iíve been a sports fan for my whole life, and part of being a sports fan is calling for coaches or players to be fired when theyíre under performing, or especially making a minor mistake. Thatís not cancel culture, thatís just common sense. But calling for a player to be fired for kneeling during the anthem even though heís performing on the field, different situations.

Any definition that doesnít make that distinction isnít any good in my opinion
dirtywick is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 04:50 PM   #2748
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,682
Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
I mean, itís absolutely a definition. Definitely vague enough to describe almost any interaction you want.
Doesn't seem to fit any of the interactions I've had on this board, or any other discussion forum outside of (occasionally) Facebook and (much more often) Twitter.

Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Iíll comment on this real quick a little further. A key component, perhaps the most important, of cancel culture is people being fired for conduct unrelated to their jobs.
I really don't think you can jam this component into the definition b/c so many of the oft-discussed cancellees have image management as (at least an implicit) part of their job description as public figures.
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin

Last edited by d4m10n; 12th April 2021 at 05:00 PM.
d4m10n is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 05:14 PM   #2749
dirtywick
Illuminator
 
dirtywick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 3,318
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Doesn't seem to fit any of the interactions I've had on this board, or any other discussion forum outside of (occasionally) Facebook and (much more often) Twitter.
Youíre not a public figure or company.

Which kind of eliminates my primary problem with cancel culture, that a private person can go viral and attract all kinds of undue and undeserved attention. That doesnít fit the definition either.

Quote:
I really don't think you can jam this component into the definition b/c so many of the oft-discussed cancellees have image management as (at least an implicit) part of their job description as public figures.
Yes, itís why itís a bit ridiculous for celebs to complain about it in my opinion. That they feel they should be above criticism and are entitled support no matter their actions isnít realistic or reflective of a free society.
dirtywick is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 06:23 PM   #2750
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,481
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
You seem to be rather unaware of who Sarah Silverman is. I recommend the documentary The Aristocrats for some background.
It matters not who she is only that her input may make a little bit of headway into finally nailing down that working definition of cancel culture which, so far, has remained very elusive.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 07:22 PM   #2751
d4m10n
Philosopher
 
d4m10n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mounts Farm
Posts: 6,682
Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
Which kind of eliminates my primary problem with cancel culture, that a private person can go viral and attract all kinds of undue and undeserved attention. That doesnít fit the definition either.
When someone becomes instantly and globally infamous while going viral, it's hard for me to say that they remain a private figure for all purposes.

(For example, I'd hate to be Kimberly A. Potter right now.)
__________________
"Well, a statement like that is all the better for proof, but go on, anyway." - Salvor Hardin
d4m10n is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 12th April 2021, 11:40 PM   #2752
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
 
smartcooky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Nelson, New Zealand
Posts: 17,182
Originally Posted by dirtywick View Post
I’ll comment on this real quick a little further. A key component, perhaps the most important, of cancel culture is people being fired for conduct unrelated to their jobs. For example, I’ve been a sports fan for my whole life, and part of being a sports fan is calling for coaches or players to be fired when they’re under performing, or especially making a minor mistake. That’s not cancel culture, that’s just common sense. But calling for a player to be fired for kneeling during the anthem even though he’s performing on the field, different situations.

Any definition that doesn’t make that distinction isn’t any good in my opinion
There is also a difference between "cancelling" someone because of their bad behaviour, and cancelling them because they exhibit behaviour that someone doesn't like

In your example, a player "cancelled" for taking a knee is not doing anything wrong, or immoral, or illegal but they are doing something The Right doesn't like... i.e. showing support and solidarity for brown people.

On the other hand a person "cancelled" for calling the cops on a black person who had the temerity to point out the rules of the park, and tell them to put their dog on a leash, got exactly what they deserved because what they did was wrong, and immoral, and illegal.
__________________
I want to thank the 126 Republican Congress members for providing a convenient and well organized list for the mid-terms.
- Fred Wellman (Senior VA Advisor to The Lincoln Project)
If you don't like my posts, my opinions, or my directness then put me on your ignore list. This will be of benefit to both of us; you won't have to take umbrage at my posts, and I won't have to waste my time talking to you... simples! !

Last edited by smartcooky; Yesterday at 12:22 AM.
smartcooky is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 09:20 AM   #2753
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 22,929
Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
When someone becomes instantly and globally infamous while going viral, it's hard for me to say that they remain a private figure for all purposes.

(For example, I'd hate to be Kimberly A. Potter right now.)
Well, me too. I've worked pretty hard to build a career and family that I like and changing into some random stranger just doesn't have much appeal.

Or did you mean something else but were not confident enough to elaborate?
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 09:21 AM   #2754
Dr. Keith
Not a doctor.
 
Dr. Keith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Texas
Posts: 22,929
Originally Posted by Stout View Post
It matters not who she is only that her input may make a little bit of headway into finally nailing down that working definition of cancel culture which, so far, has remained very elusive.
But you really should watch the documentary. It is well done.
__________________
Suffering is not a punishment not a fruit of sin, it is a gift of God.
He allows us to share in His suffering and to make up for the sins of the world. -Mother Teresa

If I had a pet panda I would name it Snowflake.
Dr. Keith is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old Yesterday, 03:13 PM   #2755
Stout
Illuminator
 
Stout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,481
Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
But you really should watch the documentary. It is well done.
Got it bookmarked, I'll try to track it down.

Speaking of funny and documentaries....Did you know there's a urinal in Bristol that uses your piss to charge your phone ?

The Science of Sewage.
Stout is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:51 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.