ISF Logo   IS Forum
Forum Index Register Members List Events Mark Forums Read Help

Go Back   International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events
 


Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.
Reply
Old 21st February 2017, 03:25 PM   #1
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
armed "not terrorists" storm government building in Oregon -- Round 2

Mod InfoThis thread is the continuation of the original thread, which can be found here. The split was arbitrary.
Posted By:jsfisher



Opening statements happening today in the second Malheur trial.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.

Last edited by jsfisher; 21st February 2017 at 07:02 PM.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 21st February 2017, 06:07 PM   #2
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,138
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Opening statements happening today in the second Malheur trial.
Seems like they're still not terrorists.
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th March 2017, 02:05 PM   #3
crescent
Master Poster
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,230
Second trial for Malheur has gone to the jury:

2nd Malheur takeover trial now with the jury

Quote:
This time around, Knight spent more time stressing that a conspiracy does not have to include a formal agreement. He told jurors to look at the armed patrols, the roadblocks, the thousands of rounds of ammunition found on refuge property and the presence of men with guns sitting at desks where employees would normally sit.
crescent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 10th March 2017, 05:07 PM   #4
crescent
Master Poster
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,230
Split decision in 2nd Malheur occupation trial


Quote:
Daryl Thorn, Jason Patrick, Jake Ryan and Duane Ehmer were all convicted of at least one felony related to the 41-day takeover in early 2016.

— Thorn and Patrick were found guilty of conspiracy to impede federal workers. Thorn was also guilty of having a firearm in a federal facility.
— Ryan and Ehmer are guilty of depredation of government property, but not guilty of conspiracy.
The headline is a bit misleading, as they were all convicted of something that was felony. They were just not all convicted of the same felony, nor were they convicted on all counts.

Still, a better result than the previous trial.

Some of the participants from the Bunkerville Nevada event are also on trial in Nevada, but there seems to be little news on that.
crescent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 11th March 2017, 05:37 AM   #5
sackett
Philosopher
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Detroit
Posts: 5,169
The chicken-pricks are going into the joint, & that's the important thing. In today's right-wing climate, an acquittal could have stirred the **** in scarey ways.
__________________
Fill the seats of justice with good men; not so absolute in goodness as to forget what human frailty is. -- Thomas Jefferson

What region of the earth is not filled with our calamities? -- Virgil
sackett is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th April 2017, 03:32 PM   #6
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
First Bunkerville trial of six guys...

Judge declares mistrial in Bundy Ranch case

Originally Posted by AZCentral
The case will be retried in June and will delay the trial of Cliven Bundy and other standoff leaders.

A federal judge declared a mistrial Monday after jurors deadlocked in the case of six men accused of taking up arms against federal agents during the Bundy Ranch standoff in 2014.

Jurors convicted two defendants on multiple counts but could not reach a unanimous verdict against four others.

Jurors told lawyers after court Monday they never came close to convicting four defendants, voting 10-2 in favor of acquitting two and splitting on the others, according to one of the defense lawyers.

Moreover, jurors did not find any of the six defendants guilty on the two main conspiracy charges that made up the core of the government's case, dealing a blow to federal prosecutors who have not won a clear victory against Bundy defendants in three separate trials...

Quote:
1st Trial Bundy Ranch Defendants

Gregory Burleson of Arizona: Guilty on eight counts.

Todd Engel of Idaho: Guilty on two counts.

Richard Lovelien of Oklahoma: Deadlocked.

O. Scott Drexler of Idaho: Deadlocked.

Eric Parker of Idaho: Deadlocked.

Steven Stewart of Idaho: Deadlocked.
Parker is the guy in the famous photo laying on the bridge with his rifle pointed at police down below him.


http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...doff/100605480
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th April 2017, 02:57 PM   #7
crescent
Master Poster
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,230
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
First Bunkerville trial of six guys...

Judge declares mistrial in Bundy Ranch case





Parker is the guy in the famous photo laying on the bridge with his rifle pointed at police down below him.


http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...doff/100605480
I'll take few convictions and mistrial over an acquittal any day.

We'll have to wait and see if the prosecutors push for a second trial.

I would be curious to see if any of the jury are going to give any interviews or insight as to which way things were leaning, and what precisely people got hung up on.

There has not been much coverage of this. I wonder if that is due to Sheldon Adelson's purchase of the Las Vegas Review-Journal having influence over the paper's political/editorial stance?

Maybe just fewer reporters (like most print papers these days), maybe prompted by Adelson, but for business rather than political reasons?

Maybe they just figure that nobody cares anymore?

The Sun, Vegas's other paper, never did follow the story much. Then again, it is amazing that Vegas still has two print newspapers.

ETA: Questions remain after mistrial in Bunkerville standoff case

If the retrail happens, it will start on June 26.

Last edited by crescent; 26th April 2017 at 03:15 PM.
crescent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 26th April 2017, 06:29 PM   #8
Trebuchet
Penultimate Amazing
 
Trebuchet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: The Great Northwet
Posts: 16,189
Who is even doing the prosecuting, Trump having fired all the US Attorneys?

Oops, just got "This forum requires that you wait 60 seconds between posts. Please try again in 1 seconds." That's incredibly annoying.
__________________
Cum catapultae proscribeantur tum soli proscripti catapultas habeant.
Trebuchet is online now   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2017, 08:49 AM   #9
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
Ryan Bundy is suing the Federal Government because people keep looking at his anus.

Quote:
“Plaintiff Bundy has been forced and threatened to bend over and expose his anus by spreading his butt cheeks wide open while Defendant Doe’s peer up into Mr. Bundy’s rear body cavity hundreds of times,” he wrote...

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/b...ral-government
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 27th April 2017, 08:55 AM   #10
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
Ken Medenbach has been arrested for traveling to witness the Las Vegas trial. This was in violation of his probation rules. The sovereign citizen cares nothing about laws or rules.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th May 2017, 03:59 PM   #11
paulhutch
Master Poster
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Blackstone River Valley, MA
Posts: 2,138
PBS's Frontline is premiering a new documentary tonight about this topic.
American Patriot: Inside the Armed Uprising Against the Federal Government
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/fi...al-government/
Quote:
FRONTLINE investigates how the Bundy family’s fight against the government invigorated armed militias and “patriot” groups. The film goes inside the family’s standoffs over land in the West, and examines how groups aligned with them have grown to levels not seen in decades.
paulhutch is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th May 2017, 04:21 PM   #12
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
Said to also include footage taken by FBI agents who were pretending to be documentary filmmakers.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th May 2017, 05:37 PM   #13
crescent
Master Poster
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,230
Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
PBS's Frontline is premiering a new documentary tonight about this topic.
American Patriot: Inside the Armed Uprising Against the Federal Government
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/fi...al-government/
I had not heard about this yet - thanks for sharing. I'll be tuning in.
crescent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 16th May 2017, 09:33 PM   #14
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
It was a well produced documentary as is typical for Frontline. It could have used more detailing of events but then it would need more than an hour. The bit about the Finicum shooting was so simplified that a viewer without knowledge of the details might conclude that he was murdered without good cause. They mentioned his jacket reaching but said nothing about a loaded pistol being inside that pocket. A person could imagine that they shot an unarmed man.
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th May 2017, 05:31 AM   #15
marplots
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 29,167
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It was a well produced documentary as is typical for Frontline. It could have used more detailing of events but then it would need more than an hour. The bit about the Finicum shooting was so simplified that a viewer without knowledge of the details might conclude that he was murdered without good cause. They mentioned his jacket reaching but said nothing about a loaded pistol being inside that pocket. A person could imagine that they shot an unarmed man.
Overall, I thought the documentary was pretty fair.
marplots is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 17th May 2017, 08:10 AM   #16
crescent
Master Poster
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,230
It also made it appear that the Bundys only recently lost their court case.

They lost their court case decades ago, the court order that preceded the round-up only restated what the previous court orders had already stated.

It also made no mention that the agency had legitimate land management reasons for reducing the cattle numbers on the Bunkerville allotment. It stated what the agency was doing to the terms of the grazing permit, but skipped over what justification the agency had for that action.
crescent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 28th June 2017, 05:26 AM   #17
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
FBI agent indicted for alleged false statements in LaVoy Finicum shooting

Originally Posted by OregonLive
An FBI agent has been indicted on federal accusations that he lied about firing at Robert "LaVoy" Finicum last year as police arrested the leaders of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation.

The agent will face allegations of making a false statement with intent to obstruct justice, according to sources familiar with the case.

The indictment stems from a more than year-long investigation by the inspector general of the U.S. Department of Justice. The agent will be identified when he's summoned to appear in U.S. District Court in Portland at 1:30 p.m. Wednesday...
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta...ccused_of.html
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th July 2017, 02:39 PM   #18
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
Mike Arnold, the first attorney used by Ammon Bundy after the Malheur occupation, has decided to switch careers from being a lawyer to growing marijuana.

http://registerguard.com/rg/news/loc...kvxzLB.twitter
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 01:59 PM   #19
Jim_MDP
Philosopher
 
Jim_MDP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: N.Cal/S.Or
Posts: 6,209
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Mike Arnold, the first attorney used by Ammon Bundy after the Malheur occupation, has decided to switch careers from being a lawyer to growing marijuana.

http://registerguard.com/rg/news/loc...kvxzLB.twitter

Can't blame him... you meet a better class of "criminal". *



* For modern, legal urban grows that is. As I presume Eugene would be.
I don't recommend meeting the cartel hires out in the forest over here in the Emerald Triangle.
__________________
----------------------
Anything goes in the Goblin hut... anything.

"Suggesting spurious explanations isn't relevant to my work." -- WTC Dust.
"Both cannot be simultaneously true, and so one may conclude neither is true, and if neither is true, then Apollo is fraudulent." -- Patrick1000.

Last edited by Jim_MDP; 7th July 2017 at 02:02 PM.
Jim_MDP is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th July 2017, 04:34 PM   #20
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
I don't recommend meeting the cartel hires out in the forest over here in the Emerald Triangle.
Doesn't our government have any secret and nameless agents with sniper skills to drop these Cartel hires? Whatever happened to taking care of business?
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2017, 08:14 PM   #21
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
The Bunkerville trial with the Bundys et al, has started in Las Vegas. There's a thread in our Trials and Errors Forum.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...=305164&page=2
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 14th November 2017, 08:27 PM   #22
Ranb
Philosopher
 
Ranb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: WA USA
Posts: 8,970
Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Doesn't our government have any secret and nameless agents with sniper skills to drop these Cartel hires? Whatever happened to taking care of business?
They do, but when they kill the wrong person, they get named and indicted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Horiuchi
Ranb is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 15th November 2017, 03:13 AM   #23
quadraginta
Becoming Beth
 
quadraginta's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Central Vale of Humility
Posts: 20,945
Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
They do, but when they kill the wrong person, they get named and indicted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Horiuchi

And then the charges get dropped.

To which decision ...
Quote:
Yagman, the special prosecutor, responded that he "could not disagree more with this decision than I do."
__________________
"It never does just what I want, but only what I tell it."
***********************************************
"A great deal of intelligence can be invested in ignorance when the need for illusion is deep." - Saul Bellow

Last edited by quadraginta; 15th November 2017 at 03:14 AM.
quadraginta is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th December 2017, 09:33 PM   #24
crescent
Master Poster
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,230
Oregon refuge video reveals chaos, anger night of Finicum killing

Quote:
Cooper proposes driving off the refuge in one of the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service firetrucks with others following in a convoy behind it.

"If they try to (expletive) with us, lay lead down,'' Cooper says, meaning opening fire.

Patrick challenges Cooper. "You think that's more tactical than standing peacefully here?'' Patrick adds that he came to the refuge to defend the Constitution, not fight.

Thorn, dressed in camouflage with the word "militia'' visible in block letters across the front of his jacket, sits on a stool with several assault rifles between his legs. Thorn, clearly agitated and losing his patience, eventually cuts in and urges his cohorts to stay and fight.

Thorn calls out others as "salty-mother-(expletive)" who are talking with their "tails between their legs.''

"We came here for one (expletive) reason, and that's to fight!'' Thorn continues. "I'm here to fight. I'm not here to run.''
crescent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 7th December 2017, 09:43 PM   #25
theprestige
Penultimate Amazing
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 26,138
So are they terrorists yet?
theprestige is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 8th December 2017, 01:21 AM   #26
Travis
Misanthrope of the Mountains
 
Travis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,320
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
So are they terrorists yet?
Always were. Also are scum but it seems scummy terrorists stick together.
__________________
"Because WE ARE IGNORANT OF 911 FACTS, WE DEMAND PROOF" -- Douglas Herman on Rense.com
Travis is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 25th January 2018, 11:39 AM   #27
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
Judge calls Oregon refuge occupier Jake Ryan's 'Sovereign Citizen' stance 'legal gibberish'

Originally Posted by OregonLive
Jake Ryan, one of the youngest defendants prosecuted in the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in 2016, might have gotten probation for digging two trenches on sacred Native American ground at the bird sanctuary.

He had no past criminal record, not even a traffic citation. He had tremendous support in his hometown of Plains, Montana. He had no violations while he was out of jail awaiting his fate.

But all those factors that may have helped reduce his sentence went out the window Wednesday as Ryan went before U.S. District Judge Anna J. Brown, suddenly demanding to represent himself.

He recited a prepared sovereign citizen script three times. It was reminiscent of fellow occupier Ryan Bundy's past filings and remarks in court.

Jake Ryan dismissed the United States as a "foreign entity'' and said he'd like to "live the rest of my life in peace and move on.''

"I'm su juris. I'm a man capable of handling my own affairs'' who refuses to recognize a "fictitious entity created by the government,'' he read from his handwritten notes on a white-lined paper. "I'm not a person. I'm a living soul. I'm a man. ... I do not wish to have an attorney assume my identity.''

The judge dismissed Ryan's remarks as "legal jibberish'' and "legal nonsense,'' denying his request to represent himself. She allowed his defense lawyer Jesse Merrithew to argue on his behalf while also letting Ryan speak.

"I'm terribly concerned that he's been influenced by misguided advice,'' Judge Brown said.

Ryan balked. "Then you are removing me from standing on my own two feet,'' he said...

https://articles.oregonlive.com/oreg...er_jake_ry.amp
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 6th February 2018, 06:41 PM   #28
William Parcher
Show me the monkey!
 
William Parcher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 19,711
A guy who was part of the Malheur occupation and also was head of the 3% of Idaho has been arrested for stealing rent money through his property management business.

http://amp.idahostatesman.com/news/l...198719069.html
__________________
Bigfoot believers and Bigfoot skeptics are both plumb crazy. Each spends more than one minute per year thinking about Bigfoot.
William Parcher is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Old 9th March 2018, 05:07 PM   #29
crescent
Master Poster
 
crescent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,230
Ryan Bundy is running for Governor of Nevada.

States' rights rancher Ryan Bundy to run for Nevada governor

Quote:
“I intend to secure the sovereignty of the state of Nevada and its land and resources for the people of Nevada,” he said.

He did not elaborate. But his rhetoric echoed a conservative political movement known as the “sagebrush rebellion” that has called for the U.S. government to relinquish control of vast federal land holdings within several Western states.
Not all bad, though:
Quote:
Bundy said he was aware he may draw votes way from the Republican nominee, possibly boosting the chances of a liberal Democrat getting elected.
crescent is offline   Quote this post in a PM   Nominate this post for this month's language award Copy a direct link to this post Reply With Quote Back to Top
Reply

International Skeptics Forum » General Topics » Social Issues & Current Events

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:55 PM.
Powered by vBulletin. Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
© 2014, TribeTech AB. All Rights Reserved.
This forum began as part of the James Randi Education Foundation (JREF). However, the forum now exists as
an independent entity with no affiliation with or endorsement by the JREF, including the section in reference to "JREF" topics.

Disclaimer: Messages posted in the Forum are solely the opinion of their authors.