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Old 21st February 2017, 03:25 PM   #1
William Parcher
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armed "not terrorists" storm government building in Oregon -- Round 2

Mod InfoThis thread is the continuation of the original thread, which can be found here. The split was arbitrary.
Posted By:jsfisher



Opening statements happening today in the second Malheur trial.
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Old 21st February 2017, 06:07 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Opening statements happening today in the second Malheur trial.
Seems like they're still not terrorists.
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Old 8th March 2017, 02:05 PM   #3
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Second trial for Malheur has gone to the jury:

2nd Malheur takeover trial now with the jury

Quote:
This time around, Knight spent more time stressing that a conspiracy does not have to include a formal agreement. He told jurors to look at the armed patrols, the roadblocks, the thousands of rounds of ammunition found on refuge property and the presence of men with guns sitting at desks where employees would normally sit.
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Old 10th March 2017, 05:07 PM   #4
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Split decision in 2nd Malheur occupation trial


Quote:
Daryl Thorn, Jason Patrick, Jake Ryan and Duane Ehmer were all convicted of at least one felony related to the 41-day takeover in early 2016.

— Thorn and Patrick were found guilty of conspiracy to impede federal workers. Thorn was also guilty of having a firearm in a federal facility.
— Ryan and Ehmer are guilty of depredation of government property, but not guilty of conspiracy.
The headline is a bit misleading, as they were all convicted of something that was felony. They were just not all convicted of the same felony, nor were they convicted on all counts.

Still, a better result than the previous trial.

Some of the participants from the Bunkerville Nevada event are also on trial in Nevada, but there seems to be little news on that.
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Old 11th March 2017, 05:37 AM   #5
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The chicken-pricks are going into the joint, & that's the important thing. In today's right-wing climate, an acquittal could have stirred the **** in scarey ways.
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Old 25th April 2017, 03:32 PM   #6
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First Bunkerville trial of six guys...

Judge declares mistrial in Bundy Ranch case

Originally Posted by AZCentral
The case will be retried in June and will delay the trial of Cliven Bundy and other standoff leaders.

A federal judge declared a mistrial Monday after jurors deadlocked in the case of six men accused of taking up arms against federal agents during the Bundy Ranch standoff in 2014.

Jurors convicted two defendants on multiple counts but could not reach a unanimous verdict against four others.

Jurors told lawyers after court Monday they never came close to convicting four defendants, voting 10-2 in favor of acquitting two and splitting on the others, according to one of the defense lawyers.

Moreover, jurors did not find any of the six defendants guilty on the two main conspiracy charges that made up the core of the government's case, dealing a blow to federal prosecutors who have not won a clear victory against Bundy defendants in three separate trials...

Quote:
1st Trial Bundy Ranch Defendants

Gregory Burleson of Arizona: Guilty on eight counts.

Todd Engel of Idaho: Guilty on two counts.

Richard Lovelien of Oklahoma: Deadlocked.

O. Scott Drexler of Idaho: Deadlocked.

Eric Parker of Idaho: Deadlocked.

Steven Stewart of Idaho: Deadlocked.
Parker is the guy in the famous photo laying on the bridge with his rifle pointed at police down below him.


http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...doff/100605480
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Old 26th April 2017, 02:57 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
First Bunkerville trial of six guys...

Judge declares mistrial in Bundy Ranch case





Parker is the guy in the famous photo laying on the bridge with his rifle pointed at police down below him.


http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...doff/100605480
I'll take few convictions and mistrial over an acquittal any day.

We'll have to wait and see if the prosecutors push for a second trial.

I would be curious to see if any of the jury are going to give any interviews or insight as to which way things were leaning, and what precisely people got hung up on.

There has not been much coverage of this. I wonder if that is due to Sheldon Adelson's purchase of the Las Vegas Review-Journal having influence over the paper's political/editorial stance?

Maybe just fewer reporters (like most print papers these days), maybe prompted by Adelson, but for business rather than political reasons?

Maybe they just figure that nobody cares anymore?

The Sun, Vegas's other paper, never did follow the story much. Then again, it is amazing that Vegas still has two print newspapers.

ETA: Questions remain after mistrial in Bunkerville standoff case

If the retrail happens, it will start on June 26.

Last edited by crescent; 26th April 2017 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 26th April 2017, 06:29 PM   #8
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Who is even doing the prosecuting, Trump having fired all the US Attorneys?

Oops, just got "This forum requires that you wait 60 seconds between posts. Please try again in 1 seconds." That's incredibly annoying.
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Old 27th April 2017, 08:49 AM   #9
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Ryan Bundy is suing the Federal Government because people keep looking at his anus.

Quote:
“Plaintiff Bundy has been forced and threatened to bend over and expose his anus by spreading his butt cheeks wide open while Defendant Doe’s peer up into Mr. Bundy’s rear body cavity hundreds of times,” he wrote...

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/b...ral-government
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Old 27th April 2017, 08:55 AM   #10
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Ken Medenbach has been arrested for traveling to witness the Las Vegas trial. This was in violation of his probation rules. The sovereign citizen cares nothing about laws or rules.
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Old 16th May 2017, 03:59 PM   #11
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PBS's Frontline is premiering a new documentary tonight about this topic.
American Patriot: Inside the Armed Uprising Against the Federal Government
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/fi...al-government/
Quote:
FRONTLINE investigates how the Bundy family’s fight against the government invigorated armed militias and “patriot” groups. The film goes inside the family’s standoffs over land in the West, and examines how groups aligned with them have grown to levels not seen in decades.
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Old 16th May 2017, 04:21 PM   #12
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Said to also include footage taken by FBI agents who were pretending to be documentary filmmakers.
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Old 16th May 2017, 05:37 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
PBS's Frontline is premiering a new documentary tonight about this topic.
American Patriot: Inside the Armed Uprising Against the Federal Government
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/fi...al-government/
I had not heard about this yet - thanks for sharing. I'll be tuning in.
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Old 16th May 2017, 09:33 PM   #14
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It was a well produced documentary as is typical for Frontline. It could have used more detailing of events but then it would need more than an hour. The bit about the Finicum shooting was so simplified that a viewer without knowledge of the details might conclude that he was murdered without good cause. They mentioned his jacket reaching but said nothing about a loaded pistol being inside that pocket. A person could imagine that they shot an unarmed man.
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Old 17th May 2017, 05:31 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It was a well produced documentary as is typical for Frontline. It could have used more detailing of events but then it would need more than an hour. The bit about the Finicum shooting was so simplified that a viewer without knowledge of the details might conclude that he was murdered without good cause. They mentioned his jacket reaching but said nothing about a loaded pistol being inside that pocket. A person could imagine that they shot an unarmed man.
Overall, I thought the documentary was pretty fair.
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Old 17th May 2017, 08:10 AM   #16
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It also made it appear that the Bundys only recently lost their court case.

They lost their court case decades ago, the court order that preceded the round-up only restated what the previous court orders had already stated.

It also made no mention that the agency had legitimate land management reasons for reducing the cattle numbers on the Bunkerville allotment. It stated what the agency was doing to the terms of the grazing permit, but skipped over what justification the agency had for that action.
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Old 28th June 2017, 05:26 AM   #17
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FBI agent indicted for alleged false statements in LaVoy Finicum shooting

Originally Posted by OregonLive
An FBI agent has been indicted on federal accusations that he lied about firing at Robert "LaVoy" Finicum last year as police arrested the leaders of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge occupation.

The agent will face allegations of making a false statement with intent to obstruct justice, according to sources familiar with the case.

The indictment stems from a more than year-long investigation by the inspector general of the U.S. Department of Justice. The agent will be identified when he's summoned to appear in U.S. District Court in Portland at 1:30 p.m. Wednesday...
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-sta...ccused_of.html
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Old 6th July 2017, 02:39 PM   #18
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Mike Arnold, the first attorney used by Ammon Bundy after the Malheur occupation, has decided to switch careers from being a lawyer to growing marijuana.

http://registerguard.com/rg/news/loc...kvxzLB.twitter
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Old 7th July 2017, 01:59 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Mike Arnold, the first attorney used by Ammon Bundy after the Malheur occupation, has decided to switch careers from being a lawyer to growing marijuana.

http://registerguard.com/rg/news/loc...kvxzLB.twitter

Can't blame him... you meet a better class of "criminal". *



* For modern, legal urban grows that is. As I presume Eugene would be.
I don't recommend meeting the cartel hires out in the forest over here in the Emerald Triangle.
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Old 7th July 2017, 04:34 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Jim_MDP View Post
I don't recommend meeting the cartel hires out in the forest over here in the Emerald Triangle.
Doesn't our government have any secret and nameless agents with sniper skills to drop these Cartel hires? Whatever happened to taking care of business?
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Old 14th November 2017, 08:14 PM   #21
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The Bunkerville trial with the Bundys et al, has started in Las Vegas. There's a thread in our Trials and Errors Forum.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...=305164&page=2
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Old 14th November 2017, 08:27 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Doesn't our government have any secret and nameless agents with sniper skills to drop these Cartel hires? Whatever happened to taking care of business?
They do, but when they kill the wrong person, they get named and indicted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Horiuchi
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Old 15th November 2017, 03:13 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Ranb View Post
They do, but when they kill the wrong person, they get named and indicted. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lon_Horiuchi

And then the charges get dropped.

To which decision ...
Quote:
Yagman, the special prosecutor, responded that he "could not disagree more with this decision than I do."
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Old 7th December 2017, 09:33 PM   #24
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Oregon refuge video reveals chaos, anger night of Finicum killing

Quote:
Cooper proposes driving off the refuge in one of the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service firetrucks with others following in a convoy behind it.

"If they try to (expletive) with us, lay lead down,'' Cooper says, meaning opening fire.

Patrick challenges Cooper. "You think that's more tactical than standing peacefully here?'' Patrick adds that he came to the refuge to defend the Constitution, not fight.

Thorn, dressed in camouflage with the word "militia'' visible in block letters across the front of his jacket, sits on a stool with several assault rifles between his legs. Thorn, clearly agitated and losing his patience, eventually cuts in and urges his cohorts to stay and fight.

Thorn calls out others as "salty-mother-(expletive)" who are talking with their "tails between their legs.''

"We came here for one (expletive) reason, and that's to fight!'' Thorn continues. "I'm here to fight. I'm not here to run.''
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Old 7th December 2017, 09:43 PM   #25
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So are they terrorists yet?
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Old 8th December 2017, 01:21 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
So are they terrorists yet?
Always were. Also are scum but it seems scummy terrorists stick together.
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Old 25th January 2018, 11:39 AM   #27
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Judge calls Oregon refuge occupier Jake Ryan's 'Sovereign Citizen' stance 'legal gibberish'

Originally Posted by OregonLive
Jake Ryan, one of the youngest defendants prosecuted in the armed takeover of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in 2016, might have gotten probation for digging two trenches on sacred Native American ground at the bird sanctuary.

He had no past criminal record, not even a traffic citation. He had tremendous support in his hometown of Plains, Montana. He had no violations while he was out of jail awaiting his fate.

But all those factors that may have helped reduce his sentence went out the window Wednesday as Ryan went before U.S. District Judge Anna J. Brown, suddenly demanding to represent himself.

He recited a prepared sovereign citizen script three times. It was reminiscent of fellow occupier Ryan Bundy's past filings and remarks in court.

Jake Ryan dismissed the United States as a "foreign entity'' and said he'd like to "live the rest of my life in peace and move on.''

"I'm su juris. I'm a man capable of handling my own affairs'' who refuses to recognize a "fictitious entity created by the government,'' he read from his handwritten notes on a white-lined paper. "I'm not a person. I'm a living soul. I'm a man. ... I do not wish to have an attorney assume my identity.''

The judge dismissed Ryan's remarks as "legal jibberish'' and "legal nonsense,'' denying his request to represent himself. She allowed his defense lawyer Jesse Merrithew to argue on his behalf while also letting Ryan speak.

"I'm terribly concerned that he's been influenced by misguided advice,'' Judge Brown said.

Ryan balked. "Then you are removing me from standing on my own two feet,'' he said...

https://articles.oregonlive.com/oreg...er_jake_ry.amp
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Old 6th February 2018, 06:41 PM   #28
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A guy who was part of the Malheur occupation and also was head of the 3% of Idaho has been arrested for stealing rent money through his property management business.

http://amp.idahostatesman.com/news/l...198719069.html
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Old 9th March 2018, 05:07 PM   #29
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Ryan Bundy is running for Governor of Nevada.

States' rights rancher Ryan Bundy to run for Nevada governor

Quote:
“I intend to secure the sovereignty of the state of Nevada and its land and resources for the people of Nevada,” he said.

He did not elaborate. But his rhetoric echoed a conservative political movement known as the “sagebrush rebellion” that has called for the U.S. government to relinquish control of vast federal land holdings within several Western states.
Not all bad, though:
Quote:
Bundy said he was aware he may draw votes way from the Republican nominee, possibly boosting the chances of a liberal Democrat getting elected.
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Old 11th July 2018, 08:22 AM   #30
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Trump pardons Oregon cattle ranchers in case that sparked 41-day occupation of national wildlife refuge

Quote:
President Trump on Tuesday pardoned father-and-son cattle ranchers in southeastern Oregon who were sentenced to serve prison time on two separate occasions for the same charges of arson on public lands, a move their supporters hailed as a shift in how the federal government approaches the West.

Trump’s decision to set aside the convictions of Dwight Hammond Jr. and Steven Hammond could have major implications for how federal officials enforce rules on grazing and other activities on tens of millions of acres owned by taxpayers.

The two men’s return to prison helped spark the 41-day occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in early 2016. Robert “LaVoy” Finicum, a rancher who acted as the protesters’ spokesman, was killed by a state trooper during an encounter between the armed occupation group and law enforcement officers — a shooting that led to charges against an FBI special agent.
This might require a bit of explanation, as the Hammond's case was a bit unusual.

They were suspected of poaching wildlife, and setting wildland fires to cover the evidence. They were convicted of the fire (arson), and the penalties for arson had been laid out by anti-terrorism legislation. So they were not prosecuted as terrorists, it is just that the penalties for the crime they committed were created under-anti-terrorism legislation. The fire did, however, destroy enough evidence of the poaching for that crime to go unprosecuted.

This was after years of vandalism of refuge property and well documented (including recorded) death threats by the Hammonds against refuge staff.

So the Hammonds were convicted. The judge (a political appointee) sentenced them on his last day before retirement - to a sentence well below the "Mandatory minimum" set by legislation. They served that sentence and were released.

However, because the sentence was less that what the legislation required, prosecutors were able to appeal to apply the full sentence. That appeal was successful, and the Hammonds were ordered back to jail. This was not considered double-jeopardy, because they were only convicted once, and the appeal against the first sentence was on-going at the time they were released.

That's what precipitated the Bundys to do the occupation of Malheur Wildlife Refuge - as a protest against this. One of the goals of the Bundys was to get the Hammonds released. The Hammonds didn't participate in the takeover and distanced themselves from it. When the time came to report to jail, they did - near the end of the refuge occupation.

Honestly, I would not have minded if the President had only commuted the sentences, as the sentencing was a bit unusual. A full pardon seems excessive though. These guys had years of bad behavior leading up to this, it was hardly an isolated instance. Not to mention that this resulted from a plea bargain, there was some potential for much more serious convictions.

A bit more info here:

Heroes or criminals? Trump pardons 2 Oregon ranchers

Quote:
Witnesses testified that a 2001 arson fire occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered deer on federal Bureau of Land Management property.

One said Steven Hammond handed out matches with instructions to "light up the whole country," and another testified that Hammond barely escaped the roaring flames.

The fire burned 139 acres (56 hectares) of public land and destroyed all evidence of the game violations, the U.S. attorney's office said.
Quote:
The Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996 called for mandatory five-year sentences for the convictions. But U.S. District Judge Michael R. Hogan said such a lengthy sentence "would not meet any idea I have of justice, proportionality ... it would be a sentence which would shock the conscience to me."

Hogan instead sentenced Dwight Hammond to three months in prison and Steven Hammond to a year and one day. However, in October 2015, a federal appeals court ordered them to be resentenced to the mandatory prison time.

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Old 11th July 2018, 08:35 AM   #31
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There is nothing more in touch with real america than arson, poaching and death threats to government workers.
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Old 13th August 2018, 09:06 AM   #32
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F.B.I. Agent Told the Truth, Jury Finds. He Did Not Fire His Gun During Militia Standoff.

Quote:
But the jurors in Federal District Court concluded that Mr. Astarita, 41, a 13-year veteran with the F.B.I. and a member of its elite hostage rescue team, was not the one who fired the mysterious shots. The decision only deepened the mystery that has surrounded the unexplained shots, and has been a topic of intense debate among law-enforcement officials, conspiracy theorists and militia supporters ever since the confrontation along a snowy, tree-lined rural road in central Oregon.
Note that they did not determine who did fire the shots. Interesting.
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Old 13th August 2018, 09:11 AM   #33
William Parcher
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It seems most likely that Astarita was the shooter, but that isn't how a verdict is reached.
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Old 13th August 2018, 01:24 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It seems most likely that Astarita was the shooter, but that isn't how a verdict is reached.

Do you have some evidence to support this conjecture?
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Old 13th August 2018, 02:04 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
It seems most likely that Astarita was the shooter, but that isn't how a verdict is reached.
he was not on trial for allegedly suiciding a seditionist. he was on trial for:

Quote:
The agent still faces three charges a week before his trial is scheduled to start: two other counts of making a false statement and one other count of obstruction of justice.
PS: it was an OSP Trooper that suicided the seditionist.
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Old 13th August 2018, 02:19 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Whip View Post
he was not on trial for allegedly suiciding a seditionist. he was on trial for:



PS: it was an OSP Trooper that suicided the seditionist.
There were several people who fired shots that day, even if only one fired the shots that killed Finicum.

Two of the shots appeared to originate from where three members of the FBI HRT were stationed - one passed through the cab of the truck and hit the door frame close to Finicum's head.

That's the shot, and the shooter in question. They don't know who fired those two shots, all others were accounted for including the hits on Finicum. The suggestion is that the shot near Finicum's head caused him to react, to think that they might shoot him regardless of what he did.

When questioned, the FBI team denied shooting, but an investigation by the State government suggested otherwise - they had a strong enough case to go to court. The State's case was that the FBI team did fire those two shots and then lied about it.

It's not really clear what the jury thought. We still don't know who fired that shot through the cab of the truck.

Last edited by crescent; 13th August 2018 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 15th August 2018, 05:13 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
There were several people who fired shots that day, even if only one fired the shots that killed Finicum.

Two of the shots appeared to originate from where three members of the FBI HRT were stationed - one passed through the cab of the truck and hit the door frame close to Finicum's head.

That's the shot, and the shooter in question. They don't know who fired those two shots, all others were accounted for including the hits on Finicum. The suggestion is that the shot near Finicum's head caused him to react, to think that they might shoot him regardless of what he did.

When questioned, the FBI team denied shooting, but an investigation by the State government suggested otherwise - they had a strong enough case to go to court. The State's case was that the FBI team did fire those two shots and then lied about it.

It's not really clear what the jury thought. We still don't know who fired that shot through the cab of the truck.
And the jury did not every necessarily think that he didn't shoot. This is a beyond a reasonable doubt not a preponderance of the evidence standard after all. So the prosecution failed to prove that he did it to the satisfaction of the jury.
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