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Tags Colorado cases , Jon-Benet Ramsay , murder cases , unsolved crimes

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Old 1st January 2018, 12:02 PM   #961
Ampulla of Vater
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Trust me, you're very much mistaken, pretty much consistently, IMO.
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Old 1st January 2018, 09:05 PM   #962
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Henri! Quick! Check under your bed! Fleet White might be hiding there!
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Old 14th January 2018, 03:36 AM   #963
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There was an interesting posting on Topix JonBenet forum in May 2016 which I think an astute detective should have been suspicious about, unlike that idiot Kolar and CBS with their ludicrously unsatisfactory 'Burke did it' theory without facts. I take this to come from the suspect Fleet White:

Quote:
Shut the **** up, you squishy piece of dog ****.

Mary Keenan is involved in a conspiracy to keep the truth about this case from the public. She is a lying sack of **** who will get hers someday, if there is any justice in the universe.

The federal judge was working with limited information and based her decision solely on the evidence presented, NOT all of the available evidence in the case.

You have been spewing lies and misinformation about this case for years. You will certainly burn in hell someday.
Edited by novaphile:  Members are reminded to take care when quoting material from other sites. The profanity editor is not triggered by partially redacted terms. Words should be provided in full to let the editor sort it out.

Last edited by zooterkin; 21st March 2018 at 07:18 AM. Reason: Profanity partially disguised
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Old 15th January 2018, 10:19 AM   #964
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There was quite a long TV documentary on the JonBenet Ramsey case yesterday on, I think, Tru TV in the UK. It was quite interesting and I thought Paula Woodward spoke a lot of sense. I must say that I disagreed with Schiller sometimes who is supposed to be such an expert on the case. I could quote you several factual errors in his book Perfect Murder Perfect Town and it irritated me a bit for him to say it's beyond doubt that she was murdered in the house. That may be true, but there is no hard evidence to back it up. That's speculation.

Steve Thomas was quoted as saying he could get a forced admission and confession from Patsy Ramsey if the DA put her in jail. Mike Kane the Grand Jury specialist lawyer said there was not enough evidence to prosecute the Ramseys.

There is a criticism of the Steve Thomas book by Jameson on the internet:

http://www.jameson245.com/Thomasbook2.htm

Quote:
257-259 - Fleet and Priscilla were favorably described by Thomas - IMO, that relationship needed to be investigated. I think Thomas influenced the Whites above and beyond the norm...
page 260 - Thomas wrote that the group was hoping for a special prosecutor.
pages 263-264 The Whites played a large part in the push for a special prosecutor - and Thomas was in there pushing as well. Beckner wasn't in agreement - and according to Thomas, he said the Whites were close to an obstruction of justice charge. Interesting.

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 15th January 2018 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 15th January 2018, 12:26 PM   #965
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post

Steve Thomas was quoted as saying he could get a forced admission and confession from Patsy Ramsey if the DA put her in jail.
He must have been confusing her with the meth heads he usually arrests without high priced lawyers.

Quote:
Mike Kane the Grand Jury specialist lawyer said there was not enough evidence to prosecute the Ramseys.
Story of the case.
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Old 16th January 2018, 04:55 AM   #966
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Paula Woodward said on that documentary a couple of days ago which I suppose could be a repeat about the JonBenet Ramsey case that Boulder does not like controversy, which is a bit like this internet forum. Detective Lou Smit was quoted as saying there is a very dangerous killer on the loose which I think could be relevant to the abduction of Madeleine McCann in Portugal. Nobody, including the incompetent boobs in the BPD, has checked to see if Fleet and Priscilla were in Portugal at the time, or if they knew Sir Clement Freud, or any Americans involved in recent American child sex scandals.
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Old 16th January 2018, 11:33 PM   #967
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
snipped...Nobody, including the incompetent boobs in the BPD, has checked to see if Fleet and Priscilla were in Portugal at the time, or if they knew Sir Clement Freud, or any Americans involved in recent American child sex scandals.
They didn't question Snidely Whiplash either.
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Old 18th January 2018, 04:11 AM   #968
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Paula Woodward said on that recent JonBenet Ramsey documentary that eight out of ten Americans think Patsy did it which I think defies logic and common sense, and is a criticism of the biased American media and fake news. The Boulder Daily Camera has always been fair and just to the innocent Ramseys, and to give the TV presenter Larry King his due and credit he has always been fair and just to the Ramseys, and to Jeffrey Macdonald in that case.

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 18th January 2018 at 04:15 AM.
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Old 20th January 2018, 09:53 AM   #969
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I posted a bit of information about that Schiller Perfect Murder Perfect Town book in January 2012 on Topix JonBenet forum. Fleet White once described that book as a pack of lies, which is a bit unfair, though he would know because he was intimately involved:

Quote:
I have never seen a copy of that corrections sheet, if it exists. It must have been something posted on the JonBenet forums years ago and which now might no longer be there.

The main Schiller error I have become aware of, unless I'm very much mistaken, was Schiller saying Fleet White arrived after John Fernie. Fleet White arrived pretty quickly around 6am. That's important information, and you would think Steve Thomas would know that.

From what I've read Schiller obtained much of his Ramsey case information from Steve Thomas. There was some story that Schiller got a bit fed up with Steve Thomas continually badgering him with Ramsey case information on the phone, presumably for money, and it looks like some of that Steve Thomas information was factually inaccurate.

This is some waffle about the matter from an old article by Ramsey case character Frank Coffman. He was quite a big character in the case at first and he used to post on the JonBenet forums, but I've not heard anything about him for the past ten years or so:

"Schiller, who has a reputation for hardball tactics, has been tagged a "perfectly amoral profiteer" by author Jeffrey Toobin, who like Schiller, wrote a book about the O.J. Simpson murder case.

Schiller's book has been called "an encyclopedia" of the Ramsey case. It is the most thorough account of the investigation to be published thus far. However, from my personal knowledge of certain events depicted in the book, I believe Schiller often embroiders the truth. For instance, while he was working on the book, he quoted a passage to me. I told him that he had somewhat misquoted what Steve Thomas said to me and I advised him to change it, but he kept the inaccurate quotation in the book. Worse, Schiller's paraphrased reconstruction of my conversation with Lou Smit regarding traits of the note's writer (Page 448) is mostly Schiller's concoction.

Others had the same problem. The Ramseys' former housekeeper, Linda Hoffmann-Pugh, confirms most of what Schiller writes about her, but she objects to several apparent fabrications, such as the claim on Page 561 that the authorities showed her a photograph of the Ramseys' dryer with JonBenet's sheets inside. She was never shown such a photo, she says.

Schiller relied heavily on the uncorroborated statements of Jeff Shapiro. Some statements from Hunter and Thomas that appear as verbatim quotations are actually just recollections from Shapiro.

Some of Schiller's sources cooperated with him on the condition he wouldn't use their names-a condition he violated. For instance, the Ramseys' former Boulder nanny talked to Schiller once he promised to keep her anonymous. Later, before the book was finished, she became alarmed that Schiller might violate their oral agreement. I relayed her concerns to Schiller, but he refused to take her name out of the manuscript.(Schiller declined to respond to the accusation for this story.)

Others, however, were permitted anonymity in the book. Clay Evans, columnist for The Daily Camera, hides behind the fictitious name "Cordwainer Bird" on Page 426.

Schiller has already issued an errata list, but it barely scratches the surface. Jeff Merrick, a former Access Graphics' employee who knew John Ramsey, says that "very little of what he writes about me is accurate." For instance, Merrick insists that he never threatened John Ramsey and he never claimed that the company owed him close to $118,000 or any other specific amount. He calls the numerous errors "almost comical."

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 20th January 2018 at 09:57 AM.
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Old 1st February 2018, 03:46 AM   #970
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I posted this on Topix JonBenet forum in 2009:

Quote:
Michael Tracey is a pro-Ramsey journalism professor at Colorado University.

I think the story goes that Patsy and John Ramsey were invited to lecture to an audience at Colorado University in the 1990's about media hysteria and libel in murder cases.

From what I can gather the Ramseys approved of Michael Tracey making Ramsey case TV documentaries from then on. Detectives Lou Smit and Ollie Gray often appear as talking heads in the documentaries.

I saw the first Tracey-Mills documentary in the UK in the late 1990's. They have all been shown in the UK. I also think they have all been shown in America, but they tend to be on rather obscure American TV channels.
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Old 1st February 2018, 12:33 PM   #971
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I posted this on Topix JonBenet forum in 2009:
And it's irrelevant. What a surprise.....Not.
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Old 3rd February 2018, 01:30 AM   #972
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I posted this on Topix JonBenet forum in 2009:
Nobody cared then, and nobody cares now.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 04:15 AM   #973
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This is what I wrote about the JonBenet case in 2008 on Topix forum and I stand by this:

Quote:
Spade made an astonishing posting, to my mind, on Forums for Justice about just over a year ago that there were phone calls from the White House with regard to the Ramsey case.

Spade never elaborated about that, or said what it was all about, and there seems to have been deafening silence about that matter from the other FFJ posters since then. Soon after that Spade stopped posting. That message from Spade may still be in the FFJ archives somewhere.

I suppose you could say that you need to take anything Spade says with a pinch of salt. It's just I'm not like Jameson who says she always defends Fleet White.

I believe Spade and Fleet might have inside information with regard to the Ramsey case, for the very good reason that they might have been involved in the JonBenet murder.

I'm beginning to have my doubts, and very little confidence in Trujillo, and one or two other cops as well. There are such things as bent cops in this world, and even cops who cover-up child sex rings and discredit witnesses.
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Old 3rd March 2018, 12:56 PM   #974
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
This is what I wrote about the JonBenet case in 2008 on Topix forum and I stand by this:
...

Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Nobody cared then, and nobody cares now.
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Old 3rd March 2018, 05:03 PM   #975
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parents who did not kill

Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Paula Woodward said on that recent JonBenet Ramsey documentary that eight out of ten Americans think Patsy did it which I think defies logic and common sense, and is a criticism of the biased American media and fake news. The Boulder Daily Camera has always been fair and just to the innocent Ramseys, and to give the TV presenter Larry King his due and credit he has always been fair and just to the Ramseys, and to Jeffrey Macdonald in that case.
That 80% of people think that the Patsy did it is distressing. BTW at the blog Statement AnalysisTM, it is over 90% (unscientific poll, surely). Yet there are other cases in which parents have been wrongfully accused and even convicted of harming their children (Sabrina Butler, Lindy Chamberlain, Billy Wayne Cope, Todd Willingham, and Patricia Stallings come to mind).
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Old 5th March 2018, 12:29 PM   #976
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
That 80% of people think that the Patsy did it is distressing. BTW at the blog Statement AnalysisTM, it is over 90% (unscientific poll, surely). Yet there are other cases in which parents have been wrongfully accused and even convicted of harming their children (Sabrina Butler, Lindy Chamberlain, Billy Wayne Cope, Todd Willingham, and Patricia Stallings come to mind).
I don't know that I find the fact that 80% of people think Patsy did it all that distressing. While I wouldn't go so far as to say I think she did it, I would say that I don't think she (or Burke, or John) can be ruled out, either. The case is so strange, and the initial investigation so badly botched, that I don't think it's possible to say who did it at this point, and I doubt that the case will ever be solved, absent the actual perp finally deciding to confess (which obviously won't happen if it was Patsy).
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Old 5th March 2018, 01:18 PM   #977
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Don't be too sure

CORed,

I agree that the initial investigation was botched, and the case has at least one singular aspect, the ransom note. However, that prompts the question: "What makes this putative 80% so certain?" My implicit point was that some people jump to conclusions to avoid uncertainty. When those people are investigators, tunnel vision follows.
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Old 5th March 2018, 02:40 PM   #978
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Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
That 80% of people think that the Patsy did it is distressing. BTW at the blog Statement AnalysisTM, it is over 90% (unscientific poll, surely).
To be fair that poll is not just for Patsy but also for John since it says parents plural. There is a reasonable case to be made against John Ramsey killing his daughter and staging a kidnapping to cover up sexual abuse. It's just not reasonable beyond a doubt due to Patsy backing up his broken window story and the evidence on prior sexual abuse being ambiguous. But I don't think most people have really analyzed the case, since most people don't think at all and go through their life feeling. Child beauty pageants are bad and make me feel bad for the children, therefore Patsy Ramsey did it -> that's the process for that 80% more or less.
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Old 10th March 2018, 03:47 AM   #979
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I still think Fleet White is a suspicious character. This is what I posted on Topix forum in 2009:

Edited by jsfisher:  ...snip... Excessive copy/paste removed in exchange for this link, post # 17.

Last edited by jsfisher; 10th March 2018 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 15th March 2018, 03:24 AM   #980
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There is a bit about the Fleet White deposition which I posted on this Topix JonBenet forum thread in 2008:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonb...-deposition/p6
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Old 17th March 2018, 11:18 AM   #981
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
I still think Fleet White is a suspicious character. This is what I posted on Topix forum in 2009:

Edited by jsfisher:  ...snip... Excessive copy/paste removed in exchange for this link, post # 17.
Noddy cared then, nobody cares now.
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Old 18th March 2018, 10:27 AM   #982
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Noddy cared then, nobody cares now.
There are people who do care about Fleet White fighting tooth and nail to keep his embarrassing attack of amnesia deposition secret, and him threatening to kill anybody who does not accept his ridiculous theory without facts that JonBenet fell down the spiral staircase. It's suspicious. There is more from the Fleet White deposition on Topix JonBenet forum here. I would like to see the rest of it:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonb...-deposition/p9
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Old 19th March 2018, 03:51 AM   #983
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There is an example of Fleet White not providing information when properly called upon to do so, during his deposition, which he still wants to keep secret because of his amnesia attack at the time:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonb...-deposition/p8
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Old 19th March 2018, 06:33 PM   #984
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To save everybody else some time, the thread to which Henri is linking you is a discussion of "jameson" posting an edited version of Fleet White's sealed deposition. It's not the deposition in its uncensored entirety and unless Henri posts a link to the blog "jameson" claims to have posted the "edited" deposition, he's just posting to pass the time, not to provide you with actual information.
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Old 21st March 2018, 08:06 AM   #985
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It's a good thing nobody pays attention then.
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Old 23rd March 2018, 01:30 PM   #986
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
It's a good thing nobody pays attention then.
I love how you state the simple truth!

This is a thread I have pretty much avoided because even the title made me roll my eyes. But, AoV, you have also done the same good job on the Darlie thread!
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Old 25th March 2018, 10:44 AM   #987
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Originally Posted by wasapi View Post
I love how you state the simple truth!

This is a thread I have pretty much avoided because even the title made me roll my eyes. But, AoV, you have also done the same good job on the Darlie thread!
Lol - I am just filling in for BStrong when he isn't here. There is a certain poster who has some very bizarre beliefs and who continually posts sheer nonsense. IMO, those posts don't require in-depth responses.
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Old 25th March 2018, 08:22 PM   #988
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What is typical of ransom notes?

Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post

I cannot get past the fact that the ransom note specifically said JBR would be killed/beheaded if they so much as "talked to a dog" or called the police. The first thing they did was to call the police and... this is where it gets really weird... they proceeded to call a dozen various people to come to the house. They made sure she would die, didn't they?
I may well be wrong about this, but I was under the impressions that most ransom notes say words to the effect of "Don't call the police," and that this is usually ignored. I agree that this is a singular ransom note in many respects.
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Old 26th March 2018, 03:23 PM   #989
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typical ransom notes

Originally Posted by Chris_Halkides View Post
I may well be wrong about this, but I was under the impressions that most ransom notes say words to the effect of "Don't call the police," and that this is usually ignored. I agree that this is a singular ransom note in many respects.
I was channeling the book Law and Disorder by John Douglas and Mark Olshaker, pp. 177-178. "Even the kidnappers don't expect you to comply with this part."
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Old 28th March 2018, 10:54 AM   #990
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Originally Posted by Henri McPhee View Post
Paula Woodward said on that recent JonBenet Ramsey documentary that eight out of ten Americans think Patsy did it which I think defies logic and common sense, and is a criticism of the biased American media and fake news. The Boulder Daily Camera has always been fair and just to the innocent Ramseys, and to give the TV presenter Larry King his due and credit he has always been fair and just to the Ramseys, and to Jeffrey Macdonald in that case.
With no offense, it is quite fair to assume the Ramey family just as possibly guilty of killing her as any other person(s). They have not been proven innocent/not guilty so they are still rationally suspects.
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Old 28th March 2018, 12:19 PM   #991
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It is one thing to think of them as persons of interest, but there is no good evidence that they are guilty. On the other hand, there was a plausible outside suspect. See my "What about Bob" posts upthread.
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Old 29th March 2018, 02:37 AM   #992
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Fleet White should write a book on how to get away with murder.
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Old 29th March 2018, 09:08 AM   #993
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This is more about the Fleet White deposition, which he fights tooth and nail to keep secret from the American public, by the American journalist Don Gentile:

Quote:
Just PART of what Fleet White has been covering up with a protective order for the last THIRTEEN YEARS:

8/27/2002: The National Enquirer: JonBenet Murder Witness changes his story:

"Some of the gaps in his memory were absolutely astonishing - and he threw a shroud of mystery over his own activities the day of the gruesome slaying."

"Asked if he remembers finding a suitcase down there and moving it, he couldn't remember."

"Asked if he remembers John Ramsey turning on a light switch in the room where JonBenet's body was found, he said he couldn't remember."

"Asked if he read the ransom note left in the house that day, he couldn't remember.

"Asked if he could remember the appearance of JonBenet's body, whether she had a heart drawn on one hand, or if he could recall John's reaction to finding the body, he couldn't."

"About the only thing he could remember was his name!"

...But Denver criminal attorney Craig Silverman said a Judge would not look kindly on White's suffering a memory loss if the Wolf suit goes to trial and he's called to testify.

"If he refuses to answer any questions, he could be held in contempt, Silverman told The Enquirer.

"It might even be considered perjury if he takes it to the extreme, it's simply a lie that he doesn't know or can't recall."

DON GENTILE
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Old 29th March 2018, 10:18 AM   #994
isissxn
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I heard that Fleet White also wrote the Lost finale. Is there no end to his villainy.
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Old 1st April 2018, 11:48 AM   #995
fuelair
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
With no offense, it is quite fair to assume the Ramey family just as possibly guilty of killing her as any other person(s). They have not been proven innocent/not guilty so they are still rationally suspects.
Ramsey dammit...........
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Old 15th April 2018, 08:54 AM   #996
Henri McPhee
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This is what I posted on topix Jon Benet forum in 2008 about Fleet White, and I stand by this:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonb...esist-order/p2

Quote:
I think you are missing something.

Fleet White gave every indication before his deposition in his public letters that he believed the Ramseys should have been arrested for JonBenet's murder, by Alex Hunter, and by the Boulder police.

Steve Thomas testified in his deposition that he seemed to believe the same thing about Fleet's attitude, although Steve Thomas didn't actually specifically name the Ramseys in relation to what Fleet and Priscilla White said to Thomas.

Then after all those manic attacks on the Ramseys Fleet White calmly comes along in his deposition and says' "it's not me guv, I don't say nothing bad about the Ramseys" which to my mind is rather odd.

As I have mentioned before, I don't really know what Fleet was playing at in that deposition. I would have more respect for the man if he had stuck to his guns and accused the Ramseys in that deposition, if that's what he genuinely believes.

That's what Candy and Darnay wanted to happen and I believe that's one reason why candy is so bitter about Fleet White, and also with Steve Thomas. Fleet White is a great big mouth except when it comes to testify in a courtroom, or a lawyer's office.

Then Fleet either refuses to attend, or he adopts this "I will not answer that question" attitude. You must ask yourself why, if the man is innocent. It's not the behavior of an innocent man.

Last edited by Henri McPhee; 15th April 2018 at 08:57 AM.
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Old 15th April 2018, 10:23 AM   #997
fuelair
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Henri! Quick! Check under your bed! Fleet White might be hiding there!
Is Fleet White connected to Fleet Enema?
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Old Today, 04:13 AM   #998
Henri McPhee
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There is a good posting on topix JonBenet forum by Sig in October 2016, with which I agree. It makes a change from Fleet White calling every other poster a retard and moron for not believing his ridiculous and fabricated theory without facts that JonBenet fell down the spiral staircase. It was the fault of the idiot police:

Quote:
Let us examine this ridiculous RDI argument shall we?

RDI: John and Patsy, being the monstrously cruel, cold-hearted people they are, sexually assaulted their own six year old daughter by stabbing her in the vagina with the broken handle of a paint brush and methodically garroted her to death, then penned a two and half page phony ransom note.

REBUTTAL: But wait!... What about the body being left in the basement? If John and Patsy were staging a kidnapping, wouldn't they have first disposed of the body somewhere beyond their property line. After all, leaving it in the basement where it is sure to be found, should an actually competent team of police officers arrive and thoroughly search the house, seems like an extremely foolish thing to do. This doesn't make any sense at all.

RDI: Hmmm...(thinking... thinking... thinking...) I got it! John and Patsy are sensitive and sentimental people. They loved JonBenet so much they just had to give her a proper Christian burial. Yeah, that's it!

REBUTTAL: That sounds like an outrageously idiotic example of special pleading. Your theory presents John and Patsy as cold-hearted monsters attempting to stage a kidnapping; but when the theory falls apart due to the matter of the body being left in the basement, you then present them as sensitive, sentimental Christians who need to retain the body of the daughter they brutally murdered in order to give her a proper burial. Seems like a vain attempt to fit a square peg in a round hole.

RDI: But... But.. But... People do crazy, bizarre things all the time! Yeah, that's it! John and Patsy were mentally ill in a big way, maybe even closet-case schizophrenics.

REBUTTAL: Except that neither John nor Patsy had any history of serious mental illness.

RDI: How do you know? Do have access to their medical records?

REBUTTAL: All their friends and family describe them as sane, loving parents who could never do such horrible things to their own daughter. Upon what evidence are you basing your claim that John and Patsy were mentally ill?

RDI: Evidence?... I'm RDI. I don't need evidence in order to support my theory. All I need is a morbid, presumptuous imagination. Only IDI are required to present evidence.

REBUTTAL: But your theory doesn't make any sense. It's totally asinine and logically absurd.

RDI: I don't need to make sense! I don't need logic! I have Kolar's book. It's the Holy Bible of the JonBenet case.

REBUTTAL: But Kolar is a jughead who failed miserably to solve the case. Isn't he the same imbecile who seriously suggested that the apparent taser marks on JonBenet's body were caused by Burke's electric model train tracks?

RDI: Don't you DARE call Kolar a jughead or an imbecile!!! Kolar is a prophet. He's the Muhammad of the RDI belief system. Just for that, I'm going to submit a complaint to the moderator and see if I can get you and your sacrilege banned from the forum!!!
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Old Today, 05:13 AM   #999
Henri McPhee
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That posting by Sig came from here if the mods want to censor it:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/jonb...342LGFRGVI/p90
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