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Tags gun control , gun control issues , gun laws , mass shootings

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Old 30th July 2016, 11:24 PM   #1
cullennz
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Why doesn't the US do something about mass shootings?

It's puzzling to me, as a Kiwi, that there have been so many mass shootings in in the US and it doesn't appear that the US has decided to do any sort of reaction to the problem.

Seems like once again they are waiting for a miracle to solve the problem, put thier people on the line so then the rest of the world can sit back once again ridiculing us for not solving the problem , as they have done, for the last few decades.

Why doesn't the US do something to respond to mass shooters.

Don't the numerous attacks warrant a response on behalf of their people and for the security of their kids? After the little kindergarten attack I really expected to see a response. Or wait, let me guess, "everyone is on Holiday and they'll do something when they get back."

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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 30th July 2016 at 11:30 PM.
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Old 30th July 2016, 11:25 PM   #2
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Republicans care more about their precious guns than they do people's lives.
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Old 30th July 2016, 11:52 PM   #3
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We do quite a lot. For example, funerals. We also do crowdfunding and name scholarships.
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Old 31st July 2016, 01:42 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by marplots View Post
We do quite a lot. For example, funerals. We also do crowdfunding and name scholarships.
And debate. Lots of debates.
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Old 31st July 2016, 02:01 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
It's puzzling to me, as a Kiwi, that there have been so many mass shootings in in the US and it doesn't appear that the US has decided to do any sort of reaction to the problem.

Seems like once again they are waiting for a miracle to solve the problem, put thier people on the line so then the rest of the world can sit back once again ridiculing us for not solving the problem , as they have done, for the last few decades.

Why doesn't the US do something to respond to mass shooters.

Don't the numerous attacks warrant a response on behalf of their people and for the security of their kids? After the little kindergarten attack I really expected to see a response. Or wait, let me guess, "everyone is on Holiday and they'll do something when they get back."



Excellent point. Did you also notice that when the shootings of Black Men carrying weapons with permits happened the NRA said absolutely nothing?

So it's ok for us to have open carry in this country. But when cops shoot black men legally carrying guns, it's not the same issue and the NRA is suddenly silent?

Someone once said that once Sandy Hook went down the debate on gun control was essentially over, because once Americans became OK with children being killed the limits have been set.

In my opinion, the issue needs to be addressed by discussing the "Well Regulated' part of the 2nd Amendment. Regulation is the only way we will be able to do anything because the Bill of Rights are sacrosanct and people are not willing to touch them.

But there is a possibility to focus on regulating weapons. What can be sold, banning Gun Shows or at least requiring background checks before leaving shows.

It is disgraceful and embarrassing as an American that our country isn't doing more to solve this problem. We look like gun savages to the rest of the world. And as you point out, it seems like everyone is waiting for "someone else to solve the problem."

When shootings happen we get a lot of speeches, hand wringing and promises to do something and then nothing ever changes.

And the NRA is hiding under the skirts of the 2nd Amendment instead of being a leader in guns. They need to stop pretending this is an issue of Freedom and realize that it's an issue of RESPONSIBILITY and take responsibility for promoting proper responsible gun control instead of painting it as the evil government is trying to take their guns away.

We don't need to take the guns away to promote responsible gun ownership.

(hmmm what's this? I'm reading the thread and I'm seeing Americans not being unwilling to admit there is a real problem with our country. I'm not seeing Americans shifting the conversation to discuss another country instead. You don't say?)

Last edited by truethat; 31st July 2016 at 02:19 AM.
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Old 31st July 2016, 02:07 AM   #6
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There's no problem, 99.995% of U.S. citizens didn't die in a gun homicide last year
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Old 31st July 2016, 02:07 AM   #7
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Don't mean to be a suck up but that is one of the best posts (admittedly it's my view as well) Ive seen on here
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000

Last edited by cullennz; 31st July 2016 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 31st July 2016, 02:20 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Don't mean to be a suck up but that is one of the best posts (admittedly it's my view as well) Ive seen on here
Which post? The OP? LOL
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Old 31st July 2016, 02:30 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Which post? The OP? LOL
Yours. Though my OP was funny in my head

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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 31st July 2016, 02:32 AM   #10
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Why thank you! Maybe we should make the OP a template. It seems like it could apply to many different issues. (Only in the US we'd say "vacation" instead of "holiday.")
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Old 31st July 2016, 02:32 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Don't mean to be a suck up but that is one of the best posts (admittedly it's my view as well) Ive seen on here
You obviously don't look at this forum often.
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Old 31st July 2016, 02:38 AM   #12
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A thread on gun control because we haven't had one for a day or two.
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Old 31st July 2016, 02:38 AM   #13
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You know what we spend even less time thinking about? New Zealand.
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Old 31st July 2016, 03:04 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
You know what we spend even less time thinking about? New Zealand.
Indeed

The bonus of not having mass shootings every two weeks, is you tend to fly under the radar
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 31st July 2016, 03:06 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Indeed

The bonus of not having mass shootings every two weeks, is you tend to fly under the radar
zing! I was thinking this but didn't want to go there.
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Old 31st July 2016, 03:39 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
A thread on gun control because we haven't had one for a day or two.
No, a thread to highlight that we haven't had a truethat thread on how useless Europe is, and how wonderful the USA is, for a day or two.
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Old 31st July 2016, 03:44 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Cain View Post
You know what we spend even less time thinking about? New Zealand.
Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
Indeed

The bonus of not having mass shootings every two weeks, is you tend to fly under the radar
Cullennz, that is about the best slap-down I have seen here in a long time.


Originally Posted by truethat View Post
In my opinion, the issue needs to be addressed by discussing the "Well Regulated' part of the 2nd Amendment. Regulation is the only way we will be able to do anything because the Bill of Rights are sacrosanct and people are not willing to touch them.
Its seems to me that "unregulated" is a more accurate description of the state of arms control in the US.
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Old 31st July 2016, 04:20 AM   #18
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Everyone needs to be cognizant of their surroundings whenever they go out in public. If one goes to a restaurant, theatre, store, where've, note where the exits are. Note where the hardened structures are. Have a plan for one's spouse or kids. In one's place if business, encourage management to conduct emergency drills. If necessary, fight. It would only take two to three individuals, even if unarmed, to overpower one guy with a gun. Be prepared. React, don't freeze.
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Old 31st July 2016, 04:31 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
Everyone needs to be cognizant of their surroundings whenever they go out in public. If one goes to a restaurant, theatre, store, where've, note where the exits are. Note where the hardened structures are. Have a plan for one's spouse or kids. In one's place if business, encourage management to conduct emergency drills. If necessary, fight. It would only take two to three individuals, even if unarmed, to overpower one guy with a gun. Be prepared. React, don't freeze.
Way to live

This post is a joke surely?
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 31st July 2016, 04:41 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
It's puzzling to me, as a Kiwi, that there have been so many mass shootings in in the US and it doesn't appear that the US has decided to do any sort of reaction to the problem.

Seems like once again they are waiting for a miracle to solve the problem, put thier people on the line so then the rest of the world can sit back once again ridiculing us for not solving the problem , as they have done, for the last few decades.

Why doesn't the US do something to respond to mass shooters.

Don't the numerous attacks warrant a response on behalf of their people and for the security of their kids? After the little kindergarten attack I really expected to see a response. Or wait, let me guess, "everyone is on Holiday and they'll do something when they get back."

Easy. We're a bunch of ********.

...can I use that word here?

Seriously, though, there are some gun fanatics who run our government. And they've become worse than ever since Obama was elected, howling about hobbit homes and other such nonsense. And since our politicians apparently see no downside to catering to those idiots, or they actually are such idiots, they block any rational gun control measures.

And so, here we are.
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Old 31st July 2016, 04:45 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Cullennz, that is about the best slap-down I have seen here in a long time.




Its seems to me that "unregulated" is a more accurate description of the state of arms control in the US.
This is the only way we can actually solve it. In the US we cling to our Bill of Rights like a life line and no one wants to mess with them because if you mess with one, you set precedent to mess with the others.

Certainly the founding fathers dropped the ball on this one but only because they had no idea about the level of technological development that was to come. This video explains it nicely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LORVfnFtcH0

So in my mind the only way to get around it is to zoom in on the "well regulated part." It drives me nuts that people don't focus on that and instead get into a debate they will always lose.

Wipe all the debating about having guns off the table. Shut it down. You can keep your precious guns. LETS REGULATE IT THEN. The words are straight out of the 2nd Amendment.
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Old 31st July 2016, 05:40 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Excellent point. Did you also notice that when the shootings of Black Men carrying weapons with permits happened the NRA said absolutely nothing?
Shootings? Black Men? When did this happen? Alton Sterling? Convicted felon. The gun control regulations you think we need so badly already prevent him from carrying a gun.

Philando Castile? Ongoing investigation. Should the NRA run out in front of the cameras and run their mouths without the facts like they were the president of the United States? How does that help?

Also is there any situation in which cops can shoot someone with a carry permit? Or is a magic talisman that grants the possessor total immunity to consequences?
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Old 31st July 2016, 05:42 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Someone once said that once Sandy Hook went down the debate on gun control was essentially over, because once Americans became OK with children being killed the limits have been set.
What you do you propose that will ensure that children will never ever be killed again? I'd like to see it.
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Old 31st July 2016, 05:45 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
And the NRA is hiding under the skirts of the 2nd Amendment instead of being a leader in guns. They need to stop pretending this is an issue of Freedom and realize that it's an issue of RESPONSIBILITY and take responsibility for promoting proper responsible gun control instead of painting it as the evil government is trying to take their guns away.
Do you know what the NRA-ILA is?
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Old 31st July 2016, 06:00 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
In my opinion, the issue needs to be addressed by discussing the "Well Regulated' part of the 2nd Amendment. Regulation is the only way we will be able to do anything because the Bill of Rights are sacrosanct and people are not willing to touch them.

But there is a possibility to focus on regulating weapons. What can be sold, banning Gun Shows or at least requiring background checks before leaving shows.
Awright, here's the discussion. You're using the word wrong.

Quote:
That the strength of the Wabash Indians who were principally the object of the resolve of the 21st of July 1787, and the strength of the Creek Indians is very different. That the said Creeks are not only greatly superior in numbers but are more united, better regulated, and headed by a man whose talents appear to have fixed him in their confidence... That from the view of the object your Secretary has been able to take he conceives that the only effectual mode of acting against the said Creeks in case they should persist in their hostilities would be by making an invasion of their country with a powerful body of well regulated troops always ready to combat and able to defeat any combination of force the said Creeks could oppose and to destroy their towns and provisions.
https://books.google.com/books?id=ro...%20and&f=false
What is the Secretary of War and Congress talking about here? The superiority of Indian gun control regulations?
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Old 31st July 2016, 06:22 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by HenryLee View Post
Philando Castile? Ongoing investigation.
Still haven't figured out a way to blame him, eh?
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Old 31st July 2016, 06:24 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
It's puzzling to me, as a Kiwi, that there have been so many mass shootings in in the US and it doesn't appear that the US has decided to do any sort of reaction to the problem.

Seems like once again they are waiting for a miracle to solve the problem, put thier people on the line so then the rest of the world can sit back once again ridiculing us for not solving the problem , as they have done, for the last few decades.

Why doesn't the US do something to respond to mass shooters.

Don't the numerous attacks warrant a response on behalf of their people and for the security of their kids? After the little kindergarten attack I really expected to see a response. Or wait, let me guess, "everyone is on Holiday and they'll do something when they get back."

NRA support is very important, especially to conservatives.

The NRA are dogmatically committed to being against any and all restrictions on gun ownership.

Hence, the government will never do anything about mass shootings.
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Old 31st July 2016, 06:35 AM   #28
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It is perfectly consistent to support gun rights and reasonable restrictions* on the purchase of firearms.

This fact is often lost on both sides of an unnecessarily binary political outlook.


* For varying definitions of "reasonable"
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Old 31st July 2016, 01:19 PM   #29
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I'm sure this thread will finally solve the gun debate once and for all.

Hallelujah.
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Old 31st July 2016, 03:06 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
A thread on gun control because we haven't had one for a day or two.
So true. the Gun Control threads are getting kind of tiring - especially since they aren't even relevant to most people's life styles.

Here's a Questionaire concerning risk:

1. Do you carry large sums of cash around?
2. Do you or anyone in your household sell Hard Drugs?
3. Are you an absolute arse when someone does you wrong while you are driving?
4. Do you hang around bars - especially seedy bars late at night?
5. Are you a Gang Member or is anyone in your House a Gang Member..or have you angered a Gang Member?
6. Can you not apologize and walk away from strife, but instead insist on getting the last word in during personal confrontations (just because you are right and that other dude is wrong!)?
7. If someone attempts to rob you on the street, can you just give them the damned money and report it to the police later.

If the answer to all seven (7) (fixed it) of the above questions was "No", then congratulations: your chances of being shot are about 'nil. So why worry about Gun Control so much?

But here's the big one, and it should be answered with a yes:

Are you familiar with street etiquette an realize that the foundations of good street etiquette are trans-cultural and trans-national? (In other words, someone following you as you walk across a dark and lonely parking lot is poor etiquette whether it happens in Boston or Bangladesh)

Last edited by Jules Galen; 31st July 2016 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 31st July 2016, 03:14 PM   #31
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Oh Non Americans favorite hobby is to talk about what's wrong with America while completely ignoring what's wrong with their own countries. I think it's something along the lines of why people watch reality shows. It's escapism from reality and actually contributing something to the world. Instead you can laze around on your couch and stuff your face with take out and criticize someone else. It makes people feel better even though they are not contributing a dang thing to society as a whole.
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Old 31st July 2016, 03:15 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Jules Galen View Post
So true. the Gun Control threads are getting kind of tiring - especially since they aren't even relevant to most people's life styles.

Here's a Questionaire concerning risk:

1. Do you carry large sums of cash around?
2. Do you or anyone in your household sell Hard Drugs?
3. Are you an absolute arse when someone does you wrong while you are driving?
4. Do you hang around bars - especially seedy bars late at night?
5. Are you a Gang Member or is anyone in your House a Gang Member..or have you angered a Gang Member?
6. Can you not apologize and walk away from strife, but instead insist on getting the last word in during personal confrontations (just because you are right and that other dude is wrong!)?
7. If someone attempts to rob you on the street, can you just give them the damned money and report it to the police later.

If the answer to all six (6) of the above questions was "No", then congratulations: your chances of being shot are about 'nil. So why worry about Gun Control so much?
Which of your categories did these children fall in?
In the US in 2015, more people were shot and killed by toddlers than by terrorists.
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Old 31st July 2016, 03:21 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Craig B View Post
Which of your categories did these children fall in?
In the US in 2015, more people were shot and killed by toddlers than by terrorists.
Who cares?

If you don't want to get shot by a child, then don't give them a gun. They are children for Chris-sakes - they don't know better.

And...if you have children, try to live a lifestyle where you don't need to keep a loaded gun around all the time.

Last edited by Jules Galen; 31st July 2016 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 31st July 2016, 03:27 PM   #34
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We send thoughts and prayers.
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Old 31st July 2016, 03:29 PM   #35
Ranb
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
It's puzzling to me, as a Kiwi, that there have been so many mass shootings in in the US and it doesn't appear that the US has decided to do any sort of reaction to the problem.
As far as I know semi-auto rifles with fixed magazines holding 7 or fewer rounds are class A firearms in NZ and anyone who can own a gun can possess them. Am I correct? A good example would be an SKS with the internal magazine blocked to hold 7 or fewer rounds. Stripper clips allow for rapid reloading.

While the availability of guns is a factor, perhaps the human factor is more important? Why is the list of massacres in NZ relatively small? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...in_New_Zealand

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Old 31st July 2016, 03:32 PM   #36
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Old 31st July 2016, 03:39 PM   #37
MikeG
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Oh Non Americans favorite hobby is to talk about what's wrong with America while completely ignoring what's wrong with their own countries. I think it's something along the lines of why people watch reality shows. It's escapism from reality and actually contributing something to the world. Instead you can laze around on your couch and stuff your face with take out and criticize someone else. It makes people feel better even though they are not contributing a dang thing to society as a whole.
The really funny thing is that I think you actually believe this to be true.
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Old 31st July 2016, 03:40 PM   #38
cullennz
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Originally Posted by truethat View Post
Oh Non Americans favorite hobby is to talk about what's wrong with America while completely ignoring what's wrong with their own countries. I think it's something along the lines of why people watch reality shows. It's escapism from reality and actually contributing something to the world. Instead you can laze around on your couch and stuff your face with take out and criticize someone else. It makes people feel better even though they are not contributing a dang thing to society as a whole.
You take things too personally
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I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun. With today’s Internet technology we should be able to tell within 72-hours if a potential gun owner has a record.

Source: The America We Deserve, by Donald Trump, p.102 , Jul 2, 2000
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Old 31st July 2016, 03:48 PM   #39
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If you take a look at the Australian Politics thread, you'll see that many of us are quite concerned about what happens in our own countries.

It's just that mass shootings don't happen in our countries. We're concerned about other things.
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Old 31st July 2016, 04:14 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by zorro99 View Post
Everyone needs to be cognizant of their surroundings whenever they go out in public. If one goes to a restaurant, theatre, store, where've, note where the exits are. Note where the hardened structures are. Have a plan for one's spouse or kids. In one's place if business, encourage management to conduct emergency drills. If necessary, fight. It would only take two to three individuals, even if unarmed, to overpower one guy with a gun. Be prepared. React, don't freeze.
You live your life like that?
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