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Tags gun control issues , gun laws , guns

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Old 22nd February 2018, 12:23 PM   #81
Yeggster
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The SYLE of firearm is of NO CONSEQUENCE whatsoever ...

For example in Canada ... self loading (semi auto) firearms that shoot the popular Caliber .223 and/or 5.56mm bullets are available in multiple platforms ... some restricted, some prohibited, while others are just over the counter target or hunting guns.

The capabilities are the same, why on earth do people worry about the cosmetics?
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Old 22nd February 2018, 12:51 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Well then, this whole thread is a red herring when it comes to the discussion of gun legislation. My apologies for being off-topic along with half or more of the posts in this thread.
Instead of being sorry you could start another thread and stay on topic.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 02:19 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post


See my above post (#70).
Pages 32-33

https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3#32
Quote:
Sources of Guns

To address the criminal misuse of firearms leading to death or injury, it is important to understand how “firearms move from lawful commerce into the hands of criminals” (ATF, 2011, p. i). A survey of gun owners between 2005 and 2010 found that an average of 232,400 guns were stolen each year (Langton, 2012). Although research in the 1980s suggested that criminals acquired guns primarily through theft (Wright and Rossi, 1986), more recent prisoner surveys suggest that stolen guns account for only a small percentage of guns used by convicted criminals (Harlow, 2001; Zawitz, 1995). It is, however, unclear whether prisoners are willing to admit to gun thefts in government-conducted surveys. According to a 1997 survey of inmates, approximately 70 percent of the guns used or possessed by criminals at the time of their arrest came from family or friends, drug dealers, street purchases, or the underground market (Harlow, 2001). Another 14 percent of those surveyed bought or traded guns at retail stores, pawnshops, flea markets, or gun shows (Harlow, 2001). However, some experts question the validity of commonly used research methodologies for identifying crime-gun-trafficking prevalence, arguing that trafficking is more closely associated with gun scarcity than inappropriate acquisition from licensed gun dealers (Kleck and Wang, 2009). A better understanding of the validity of different methods to evaluate the sources of crime guns would help inform policies aimed at disrupting the flow of guns to criminals
Stolen appears more than once, which calls into question your analysis.

Not sure why the eye-roll, Giz is right that research isn't blocked; government funds can't be used (section titled "Impact of Existing Federal Restrictions on Firearm Violence Research", pages 23-24) and the government cannot maintain a database of gun owners, sales, or possession. That make sit difficult, but it's not disallowed. In fact, the CDC issues studies from after the time that regulation was passed.

And if you'd actually read my other comments, you'd have seen that I disagree both with the ban on a database AND disagree with limiting research.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 03:02 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Actually, assault rifle has a very specific definition that generally isn't in contention: A select-fire, magazine fed weapon designed for infantry use.

It's the made-up "assault weapon" term that's murky and ill-defined, and that's the one they used in the law.
....
Without reading the thread to the end, could you imagine a definition of "assault-style" rifle that could be banned for civilians? The problem with the assault-rifle ban was that it was largely based on easily alterable cosmetics. Could you imagine a ban based on functional considerations? Say any rifle with a self-loading, semi-auto mechanism, barrel shorter than 24", magazine larger than five rounds. That would allow hunters to keep their Browning BARS, Remington 1100s, etc., but would prohibit military-style weapons from people who dream of going to war against their government.

Last edited by Bob001; 22nd February 2018 at 03:05 PM.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 04:34 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Pretty much. Handguns, often cheap revolvers and small-caliber semi-autos, make up the majority of gun deaths and gun crime in this country.

"Assault Weapons" make up a minority, but they're "flashier" and get press. Which is part of why they're focused on by both the ban-proponents and the shooters. IMHO I think that focus and attention is part of why mass shootings are occurring more often. There's such a storm of press and attention around all of these incidents, with the pundits arguing for weeks, and of course online: how many threads here are discussing the latest one? And that doesn't count the tweets and facebook posts and everything else. For a person that's already got issues, usually feels isolated, and wants to be noticed or prove they matter, what better way to get attention? And we sure give them attention afterwards.

AS to bans, it's an emotional reaction, not a rational one. Think about the arguments:

1. They're designed to kill (same as any weapon ever created, from the stone club to the nuke).
2. They look like military rifles (even though most of the military features are removed-no flash suppressor, no select-fire, etc., and there are other rifles with similar capabilities that wouldn't be classed as assault weapons)
3. They cause deaths and have no useful purpose (not true; they are used for varmint control, hunting, and defense as well as recreation. But you don't see this argument made against alcohol, whose ONLY purpose is recreation, and there are twice as many alcohol-related deaths each year as gun-related)

Add to that that most of those calling for firearms bans of various sorts have very little knowledge of firearms (i.e.-the assault weapons ban of 94), and that ignorance leads to ineffective legislation. Even for the goals they want, that seems odd. "Know your enemy" as a saying has been around quite a while, after all. I'd think if they were truly interested in a functional solution, they'd do some research...instead is mostly based on emotional factors (they look like military weapons, and militaries kill people!).

Now, that being said, we do need regulation improvements. I don't think a ban is politically achievable, practical, or functional. I've always been a proponent of a licensing system, much like a driver's license: An extensive background check initially to determine if you're eligible, along with a requirement for training on use, safety, storage, and law. Pass that, you get the license. License is revoked if you ever have a disqualifying event. Maybe a 4 or 5 year time limit after which a renewal is required (another background check, but maybe a quicker one this time, similar to what's done now, to keep costs lower).

And get rid of the stupid regulations that don't allow various gun records to be put in an electronic format and used efficiently.

But any sort of gun regulation is a treatment, not a cure. It's Tylenol for the fever, not an antibiotic to actually stop the infection. We need better mental health in this country, desperately. We need ways to identify those with problems and get them help before it turns into something like this...whether they choose a mass shooting, driving a car into a crowd, building a bomb, or whatever other method of mutual destruction they pick. We need to work on less tribalism, picking causes and sides and dying on ideological hills, and more pragmatism: being willing to include everyone in our democracy, and quit viewing compromise and negotiation as an evil. Compromise is, after all, the foundation of functional society.

But that's just my opinion, and I fully expect these comments to be twisted to strawmen, and to be hit with numerous insults about how I simply have a fetish to kill people, which is why I rarely post in gun threads. I don't need the ulcers.
This is well written, and well thought out.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 05:09 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Yeggster View Post
The SYLE of firearm is of NO CONSEQUENCE whatsoever ...

For example in Canada ... self loading (semi auto) firearms that shoot the popular Caliber .223 and/or 5.56mm bullets are available in multiple platforms ... some restricted, some prohibited, while others are just over the counter target or hunting guns.

The capabilities are the same, why on earth do people worry about the cosmetics?
Because they are ignorant similar to most commenting in this thread.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 05:17 PM   #87
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Just ban semi-auto rifles. Simple.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 05:21 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Just ban semi-auto rifles. Simple.
He, he... Then what?
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Old 22nd February 2018, 05:35 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
He, he... Then what?
House to house
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Old 22nd February 2018, 05:37 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by bobdroege7 View Post
House to house
Are you a volunteer?
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Old 22nd February 2018, 05:46 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
The degree to which I'm impressed by technical arguments as to what constitutes an assault rifle: nil
If you don't understand the technical details, how can you make an informed decision about policy?
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Old 22nd February 2018, 06:12 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If you don't understand the technical details, how can you make an informed decision about policy?
“In politics and in life, ignorance is not a virtue,”
- Obama
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Old 22nd February 2018, 06:58 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Listening to Marco Rubio's pathetic arguments on CNN's Town Hall tonight left me with a question to your oft repeated argument (same one Rubio makes) that gun regulations won't work because of the language used to describe banned or regulated weapons.

My question is, so what's your solution? Because this semantics argument is weak at best.
There are three separate laws in California addressing "assault weapons" and criminals inclined to do harm to others don't seem to comply with any of the statutes. We have very strict laws on the possession of National Firearms Act weapons and devices and that hasn't exactly been a success either.

Facts in evidence:

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Celebratory gunfire in San Francisco, 6-12-2017. Gunfire starts at approx. 1:04, automatic weapons fire at 1:35 - keep in mind that S.F. has the strictest gun laws in the state.

YouTube Video This video is not hosted by the ISF. The ISF can not be held responsible for the suitability or legality of this material. By clicking the link below you agree to view content from an external website.
I AGREE


Reveler films himself firing a full auto-Glock pistol into the air at a Sideshow in Oakland, California the end of January of this year. The firearm is wholly illegal and the extended magazine is as well. The individual ding the firing was also filmed by another sideshow participant and the video has been widely distributed, No arrest has been made.

I'm already on record here from 2012 with a sensible approach to gun control intended to protect 2nd Amendment rights and society at large, but as I posted back then there was something to piss off both sides of the debate:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com...postcount=1065
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Old 22nd February 2018, 07:23 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
If you don't understand the technical details, how can you make an informed decision about policy?
First off, I will pay attention to the details once there's an actual policy proposal. For that it's worth, seeing as it's a given that I want far more gun control than whatever half-ass measures congress+admin hatches. Knowing the details doesn't help me decide whether to support the measure -- I want all that and more. Knowledge will help me measure my disappointment though.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 10:42 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
First off, I will pay attention to the details once there's an actual policy proposal. For that it's worth, seeing as it's a given that I want far more gun control than whatever half-ass measures congress+admin hatches. Knowing the details doesn't help me decide whether to support the measure -- I want all that and more. Knowledge will help me measure my disappointment though.
Which exactly why the N.R.A. can successfully sell the idea that any restriction on firearms purchase, use or possession isn't anything other than a step towards eventually banning firearms.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 10:57 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
.....
Reveler films himself firing a full auto-Glock pistol into the air at a Sideshow in Oakland, California the end of January of this year. The firearm is wholly illegal and the extended magazine is as well.
.....
Just curious. Is a "full-auto Glock" something that is actually marketed, or was a standard semi-auto Glock doctored? If the latter, what would Glock need to do to make such a modification impossible?
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Old 22nd February 2018, 11:05 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by BStrong View Post
Which exactly why the N.R.A. can successfully sell the idea that any restriction on firearms purchase, use or possession isn't anything other than a step towards eventually banning firearms.
I had no idea that I, an anonymous person on the internet posting on a backwater forum, am so vastly influential.
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Old 22nd February 2018, 11:55 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Reheat View Post
He, he... Then what?
Show leadership.

Australia had a ******** of semi-automatics. None now, in civilian hands at least.

That you can't comprehend something like this says a lot about you and the US in general. It takes political and moral courage, both absent in the US today.

Oh, can posters stop talking about the use of semi automatics for hunting. Proper hunters do not need to tear their prey in two with weapons like this.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 03:38 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I had no idea that I, an anonymous person on the internet posting on a backwater forum, am so vastly influential.
The sentiment you expressed is commonplace.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:24 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Just curious. Is a "full-auto Glock" something that is actually marketed, or was a standard semi-auto Glock doctored? If the latter, what would Glock need to do to make such a modification impossible?
The Glock 18 is the factory select fire version The selector is the switch on the rear side of the slide. They are not legal in the US, except for Government Agency and dealer sample. The first photo is an 18 kitted out with an extended barrel and stock for use as an SMG.

It is not possible to make it impossible to alter a firearm to full-auto. You can only make it more difficult.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Glock18Roni-2a.jpg (48.4 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg rimg.jpg (37.1 KB, 3 views)

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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:50 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
First off, I will pay attention to the details once there's an actual policy proposal. For that it's worth, seeing as it's a given that I want far more gun control than whatever half-ass measures congress+admin hatches. Knowing the details doesn't help me decide whether to support the measure -- I want all that and more. Knowledge will help me measure my disappointment though.
I don't know what I want but I damn well better get it.

Your logic does not seem to be founded on logic. I can't think of any other field in which a lack of knowledge is beneficial to a strong opinion, and I doubt guns are some unicorn topic that suddenly makes this line of reasoning appropriate.

You may be right, but you are in no way actually making your point and helping your cause.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:53 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
I don't know what I want but I damn well better get it.

Your logic does not seem to be founded on logic. I can't think of any other field in which a lack of knowledge is beneficial to a strong opinion, and I doubt guns are some unicorn topic that suddenly makes this line of reasoning appropriate.

You may be right, but you are in no way actually making your point and helping your cause.


I don't think someone needs to know the details of the four stroke engine cycle or the difference between a Ferrari and a Lamborghini to opine that speed limits are a good idea.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:53 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Show leadership.

Australia had a ******** of semi-automatics. None now, in civilian hands at least.

That you can't comprehend something like this says a lot about you and the US in general. It takes political and moral courage, both absent in the US today.

Oh, can posters stop talking about the use of semi automatics for hunting. Proper hunters do not need to tear their prey in two with weapons like this.
So you, or whoever you got your stats from somehow conducted a thorough search of the country to confirm this? Including the barricaded gang club houses that have been an issue lately?

If so, and it comes with clear sourcing you may have changed my mind.

So let's see that source my friend. You made the claim no civilian in the country has a semi auto, let's see how you cane to that debate ending point.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:56 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I don't think someone needs to know the details of the four stroke engine cycle or the difference between a Ferrari and a Lamborghini to opine that speed limits are a good idea.
If the topic in discussion is lowering or raising it based on collisions by these car models, then damn right they would. I'd regard their opinion as having zero weight otherwise.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:57 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh, can posters stop talking about the use of semi automatics for hunting. Proper hunters do not need to tear their prey in two with weapons like this.
Debating any topic is not helped by excessive hyperbole. Hunters don't use semi-auto firearms to "tear prey in two".
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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:58 AM   #106
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
If the topic in discussion is lowering or raising it based on collisions by these car models, then damn right they would. I'd regard their opinion as having zero weight otherwise.

Not at all. Most people know nothing of the physics of car collisions. They just think that speed limits are a good idea.

They then lean on experts to work out friction coefficients and stopping distances. They don't need to know the technicalities and they certainly don't need to know the difference between an inline four and a V 6.


Are you saying that people without an intimate knowledge of the physics of collisions and the workings of a pressurised breaking system have no rights, due to lack of knowledge, to discuss speed limits?
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Old 23rd February 2018, 06:58 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Giz View Post
This is ridiculous. The gun laws of, for example, alabama and California are wildly different (carry permits, magazine capacity, banned models, etc)
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-all-50-states

Congress has decided that the local laws for Concealed Carry don't matter if they are more restrictive than those of the state you are bringing the gun from.
This literally means that people can go gun shopping where the laxest gun laws are and bring them back home.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 07:08 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by sadhatter View Post
I don't know what I want but I damn well better get it.

Your logic does not seem to be founded on logic. I can't think of any other field in which a lack of knowledge is beneficial to a strong opinion, and I doubt guns are some unicorn topic that suddenly makes this line of reasoning appropriate.

You may be right, but you are in no way actually making your point and helping your cause.
This is an inane interpretation of my posts.

Just because I'm disinterested in feeding a red herring doesn't mean I'm disinterested in relevant facts. At the moment, the wording of the Brady Bill isn't high on my radar. BFD.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 07:21 AM   #109
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Without reading the thread to the end, could you imagine a definition of "assault-style" rifle that could be banned for civilians? The problem with the assault-rifle ban was that it was largely based on easily alterable cosmetics. Could you imagine a ban based on functional considerations? Say any rifle with a self-loading, semi-auto mechanism, barrel shorter than 24", magazine larger than five rounds. That would allow hunters to keep their Browning BARS, Remington 1100s, etc., but would prohibit military-style weapons from people who dream of going to war against their government.
Yes, and a functional definition is what's needed for any ban to be enforceable or effective. Frankly, instead of making up terms, I'd just define the ban in terms of function and be done with it.

Now, the devil would be in deciding what function(s) should be included. And the unintended effects; your proposal just banned all the semi-auto .22 rifles out there

Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-all-50-states

Congress has decided that the local laws for Concealed Carry don't matter if they are more restrictive than those of the state you are bringing the gun from.
This literally means that people can go gun shopping where the laxest gun laws are and bring them back home.
Actually, that's based on reciprocity...the same principal that makes all states (for example) recognize a marriage performed elsewhere. It means if you have a concealed carry license, other states have to recognize it. And there's never been anything preventing someone from buying a gun in another state and bringing it home; this doesn't really affect availability.

What it does allow them to do is get a concealed carry license from another state with laxer (more lax?) laws, and that's problematic.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 07:43 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post

What it does allow them to do is get a concealed carry license from another state with laxer (more lax?) laws, and that's problematic.
Problematic?- ah, the little seen US form of British Understatement.


******* insane would be closer.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 07:53 AM   #111
theprestige
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I don't think someone needs to know the details of the four stroke engine cycle or the difference between a Ferrari and a Lamborghini to opine that speed limits are a good idea.
Varwoche isn't talking about speed limits.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 07:53 AM   #112
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-all-50-states

Congress has decided that the local laws for Concealed Carry don't matter if they are more restrictive than those of the state you are bringing the gun from.
This literally means that people can go gun shopping where the laxest gun laws are and bring them back home.
Get your facts straight. Purchasing is not equivalent to carrying. This entire discussion is plagued with hyperbole and ignorance removing the possibility of any reasonable discussion. This is a perfect example.

A non-resident can not legally purchase a firearm in a State where he does not live without going through an FFL for a transfer of the firearm. That means a background check is required to be done. The process would go from a FFL in the state of purchase to an FFL in the resident's state where a NICS check would be accomplished.

Carry laws are different. With State reciprocity one can legally carry a firearm in another State other than his residence. The laws of the State occupied apply.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 07:58 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Varwoche isn't talking about speed limits.
It's an analogy. If you could tell me why it's a poor one, as it may be, then I can discard or reinforce it.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 08:07 AM   #114
theprestige
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
It's an analogy. If you could tell me why it's a poor one, as it may be, then I can discard or reinforce it.
Or, since every element in your analogy must map to its corresponding element of the thing itself, you could spend all the of that discarding and reinforcing effort on arguing the thing itself in its own terms.

This isn't kindergarten. You don't need to tell "lies to children". You can freely discuss guns as such, without having to waste your time trying to figure what "speed limits" are supposed to be analogous to. It's a thread about guns. Just talk about guns.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 08:21 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Or, since every element in your analogy must map to its corresponding element of the thing itself, you could spend all the of that discarding and reinforcing effort on arguing the thing itself in its own terms.

This isn't kindergarten. You don't need to tell "lies to children". You can freely discuss guns as such, without having to waste your time trying to figure what "speed limits" are supposed to be analogous to. It's a thread about guns. Just talk about guns.

It's not a waste of time to establish if people share similar thoughts abut similar things at all. It's a necessary and productive part of dialogue. It speaks to the consistency of thought across issues which frequently seems to be lacking in discussions on gun control.


Personally, I believe the obsession with the technical aspects of firearms is an attempt by what might loosely be called the 'pro-gun side' to dismiss legitimate arguments with which they would otherwise have to engage.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 08:28 AM   #116
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
And there's never been anything preventing someone from buying a gun in another state and bringing it home; this doesn't really affect availability.
Wrong!
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Old 23rd February 2018, 08:45 AM   #117
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Originally Posted by Bob001 View Post
Just curious. Is a "full-auto Glock" something that is actually marketed, or was a standard semi-auto Glock doctored? If the latter, what would Glock need to do to make such a modification impossible?
Glock manufactured a selective-fire version of their flagship model G17 pistol, the G18.

Factory original examples in the U.S. are few and far between and because they were manufactured in Austria and imported they are/were not transferable to individuals - post-May dealer samples and LE/Military use only.

To fill the gap for legal individual possession, SOT (Special Occupational Taxpayers) licensees developed their own version of parts that would facilitate full auto fire that would be legal for possession and use under the N.F.A. for transferable registration. Other interested individuals of the un-licensed type either developed their own versions or acquired information on how to manufacture the legal parts and converted their Glocks illegally.

This is not in anyway a new phenomenon:

lhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyman_S._Lehman

Born into a prominent Texas family, Hyman Saul Lebman became an accomplished gunsmith and leather worker. During the 1930s, he opened a gun store and saddlery shop at 111 S. Flores Street in San Antonio.[4] Lebman was frequently asked by his customers to secure unusual weapons, including the Thompson submachine gun built by Colt, which at the time could be ordered through the mail and purchased at gun or hardware stores. Soon, Lehman began customizing Colt pistols and other small arms, including conversion into fully automatic weapons.[4]

One of his Lebman's specialties was the "Baby machine gun", a Colt Model 1911 semi-automatic pistol in .45 Automatic or .38 Super caliber, converted to full-auto fire. This machine pistol featured an oversized ammunition magazine, a muzzle brake or compensator, and a fore grip adapted from the more familiar Thompson submachine gun.[1][2][3] Lebman's son Marvin described his father's development of the Colt "machine pistol" concept:


Lebman continued to sell his machine pistols and other automatic weapons until the passage of the National Firearms Act in 1934. When Chicago bootlegger Roger "The Terrible" Touhy was arrested in Wisconsin on July 19, 1933, one of Lebman's "baby machine guns" was found in his car. Pretty Boy Floyd, John Dillinger, and several known associates of the Dillinger gang were also customers.[6] A full-auto Lebman Colt belonging to Dillinger was found at one of his hideouts in St. Paul, Minnesota, on March 31, 1934, as well as one left behind at the Little Bohemia Lodge three weeks later.[1][2][3]
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Old 23rd February 2018, 08:47 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
It's not a waste of time to establish if people share similar thoughts abut similar things at all. It's a necessary and productive part of dialogue. It speaks to the consistency of thought across issues which frequently seems to be lacking in discussions on gun control.


Personally, I believe the obsession with the technical aspects of firearms is an attempt by what might loosely be called the 'pro-gun side' to dismiss legitimate arguments with which they would otherwise have to engage.
Of course it's a waste of time. Your goal is to find out what people think about guns, right? You could accomplish that by talking to them about guns.

Instead you've decided to embark on a much longer, irrelevant journey: Establish that cars are similar to guns in certain specific ways. Establish that the person you're talking to sees the similarity you do. Establish that the person reaches same conclusions as you, about cars. Establish that the person agrees that the conclusion about cars properly carries over to the similar thing about guns.

I don't want to help you unpack and map out all the points of your analogy, just to have a conversation about guns.

If you want to talk about gun policy, talk about gum policy. If you want to know what someone thinks about gun policy, don't ask them what they think about speed limits.

With your analogy, the best case scenario is that you are ready to show the analogy between speed limits and whatever aspect of gun policy you *really* want to talk about. In which case, you could cut out the analogy entirely, and just talk about gun policy itself.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 08:51 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
I had no idea that I, an anonymous person on the internet posting on a backwater forum, am so vastly influential.
If you were the only one and no other individual or politician had ever used the term "A good first step" wrt firearms restrictions you'd have a point.

As it is, you're one of many supporters of gun control that have made it clear that any compromise on the issue boils down to what you'll settle for taking away today and what you're willing to wait to take away later.
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Old 23rd February 2018, 08:52 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by Hellbound View Post
Yes, and a functional definition is what's needed for any ban to be enforceable or effective. Frankly, instead of making up terms, I'd just define the ban in terms of function and be done with it.

Now, the devil would be in deciding what function(s) should be included. And the unintended effects; your proposal just banned all the semi-auto .22 rifles out there



Actually, that's based on reciprocity...the same principal that makes all states (for example) recognize a marriage performed elsewhere. It means if you have a concealed carry license, other states have to recognize it. And there's never been anything preventing someone from buying a gun in another state and bringing it home; this doesn't really affect availability.

What it does allow them to do is get a concealed carry license from another state with laxer (more lax?) laws, and that's problematic.
Uh, you can't, for example, go to say Nevada and buy something that is illegal in California and then bring it back to California. In fact dealers are required to check ID and not sell to someone that can't legally purchase in their state. Of course you could go to a gun show, and bring it home, and risk getting in serious trouble.
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