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Tags atheists , Lawrence Krauss , sexual misconduct charges

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Old 1st March 2018, 09:40 AM   #241
theprestige
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
It's really irrelevant either way. Buzzfeed is a reputable news organization, not bloggers just commenting on an x-gf's claims.
"Reputable news organization" just seems like an oxymoron. Like "military intelligence".
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Old 1st March 2018, 11:40 AM   #242
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Quote:
I'm asking you what's disturbing. So far you've done nothing but avoid answering.
See post number 132. "That he butchered the scientific method to defend a man who solicited sex from a 14 year old?"

Now that you know that he defended him after he was convicted, can you admit that?

Quote:
"Reputable news organization" just seems like an oxymoron. Like "military intelligence".
Not an argument. But thanks for the meaningless sophistry.

Last edited by Jerrymander; 1st March 2018 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 1st March 2018, 05:39 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by angrysoba View Post
It's a long article and some of the behaviour, if true, would be sexual harassment in any workplace setting, but it's also mixed in with a lot of borderline cases that, if true, would make him look a bit crass, and then there's some well-poisoning about the whole skeptic movement and some guilt-by-association.
Just for the sake of listing out all the relatively specific accusations against Krauss respecting his alleged maltreatment of women:
  1. Making sexist jokes in the presence of undergraduates
  2. Looking at undergradutes lustfully and openly, e.g. telling a 19-year-old undergraduate that he liked her jumper
  3. Suggesting that an Arizona State’s Origins Project staffer should dress up like a hula girl while advertising for an organizational event
  4. Holding and openly espousing a retrograde attitude towards women of childbearing age in the workplace, including telling an employee at ASU that he was going to buy her birth control so she didn’t inconvenience him with maternity leave
  5. Asking an undergraduate at Case Western Reserve out to dinner, after closing his office door and making jokes, which “could constitute sexual harassment in violation of the university’s sexual harassment policy.”
  6. An unknown infraction at the Perimeter Institute, circa 2012
  7. Propositioning a woman to join him and a female companion for sex in their cabin, during a humanist cruise in 2011
  8. Running his hand up "A.'s" leg under the table at the (hotel?) bar in 2011, during the American Atheists national convention in Des Moines
  9. Groping an unidentified woman’s right breast while posing with her for a selfie at the 2016 Australian skeptics national convention
  10. Non-consensual sexual activity which “was definitely predatory,” in a D.C. hotel in November 2006

I'm not really sure what to think of most of these accusations; so few of the accusers are named, the main accuser changed her story from "made her feel uncomfortable" to straightforward sexual assault. The last three accusations are fairly serious, arguably criminal. The first three could be simple misunderstandings of relatively benign office banter, or perhaps much worse. The proposition for a threesome seems out of place in the list; such things aren't even that far out of bounds at an atheist or skeptic event, if you don't believe me then you haven't been hitting the right parties.
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Old 1st March 2018, 05:52 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Just for the sake of listing out all the relatively specific accusations against Krauss respecting his alleged maltreatment of women:
  1. Making sexist jokes in the presence of undergraduates
  2. Looking at undergradutes lustfully and openly, e.g. telling a 19-year-old undergraduate that he liked her jumper
  3. Suggesting that an Arizona State’s Origins Project staffer should dress up like a hula girl while advertising for an organizational event
  4. Holding and openly espousing a retrograde attitude towards women of childbearing age in the workplace, including telling an employee at ASU that he was going to buy her birth control so she didn’t inconvenience him with maternity leave
  5. Asking an undergraduate at Case Western Reserve out to dinner, after closing his office door and making jokes, which “could constitute sexual harassment in violation of the university’s sexual harassment policy.”
  6. An unknown infraction at the Perimeter Institute, circa 2012
  7. Propositioning a woman to join him and a female companion for sex in their cabin, during a humanist cruise in 2011
  8. Running his hand up "A.'s" leg under the table at the (hotel?) bar in 2011, during the American Atheists national convention in Des Moines
  9. Groping an unidentified woman’s right breast while posing with her for a selfie at the 2016 Australian skeptics national convention
  10. Non-consensual sexual activity which “was definitely predatory,” in a D.C. hotel in November 2006

I'm not really sure what to think of most of these accusations; so few of the accusers are named, the main accuser changed her story from "made her feel uncomfortable" to straightforward sexual assault. The last three accusations are fairly serious, arguably criminal. The first three could be simple misunderstandings of relatively benign office banter, or perhaps much worse. The proposition for a threesome seems out of place in the list; such things aren't even that far out of bounds at an atheist or skeptic event, if you don't believe me then you haven't been hitting the right parties.
1-6 are pushing it to be called dodgy

In fact there actually is no 6
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Old 1st March 2018, 06:01 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
"Reputable news organization" just seems like an oxymoron. Like "military intelligence".
Not to mention "jumbo shrimp".
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Old 1st March 2018, 06:46 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
Obviously, this one data point alone is not sufficient evidence of any wrongdoing.

However, I think it does contribute to the idea lend credence to any claim of Krauss's misconduct. His comments on the Epstein case show that, in spite of the facts, he will deny very serious cases of sexual abuse. In these types of situations, he will put evidence, truth, and potential future victims on the back of the bus. Now, I can't exactly say what's sitting at the front, but there are no favorable possibilities.

Given all that, he has very little reliability when it comes to denying his own sexual improprieties. Even if it is nothing more than a he said-she said, he's coming in with a disadvantage.
Krauss simply stated that he was sure Epstein did not in fact know how old the girls were which is very likely because it was another party who was actually bringing the girls in as far as I understand. If the agreement was all women were to be over 18, and they looked to be that mature, Epstein may not have known.

Should he have taken the third party at their word? That's a different argument and not one Krauss made.
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Old 1st March 2018, 06:57 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Krauss simply stated that he was sure Epstein did not in fact know how old the girls were which is very likely because it was another party who was actually bringing the girls in as far as I understand. If the agreement was all women were to be over 18, and they looked to be that mature, Epstein may not have known.

Should he have taken the third party at their word? That's a different argument and not one Krauss made.
Gotta tell you, the whole Epstein got punked by his human trafficker pimp isn't really all that convincing.
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Old 1st March 2018, 07:11 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Gotta tell you, the whole Epstein got punked by his human trafficker pimp isn't really all that convincing.
Seriously.

Especially when you look into the legal details of how not prosecuting the human trafficker pimp was part of the plea bargain. (What sort of beans would have been spilled if that guy had been pressured to tell-all?)
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Old 1st March 2018, 07:44 PM   #249
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Krauss simply stated that he was sure Epstein did not in fact know how old the girls were which is very likely because it was another party who was actually bringing the girls in as far as I understand. If the agreement was all women were to be over 18, and they looked to be that mature, Epstein may not have known.

Should he have taken the third party at their word? That's a different argument and not one Krauss made.
To be fair

What Krauss seemed to do is use a warped, badly thought out science excuse to justify his blind faith in his mates word.

And frankly. She is pretty pathetic, given what I have since learned of his reputation as a skeptic.

Dude needs to take a reality pill
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Old 1st March 2018, 08:20 PM   #250
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
What Krauss seemed to do is use a warped, badly thought out science excuse to justify his blind faith in his mates word.
Sounds about right. Even generally skeptical people are motivated to believe good things about their friends. Please revisit any thread about the Dunning case for numerous examples.

Still not obvious what this failure of reasoning has to do with the accusations of sexual misconduct against people not named Epstein, though.
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Old 1st March 2018, 08:21 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Should he have taken the third party at their word? That's a different argument and not one Krauss made.
"I thought these were respectable criminals" is a creative take, but not a very convincing one.

Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
What Krauss seemed to do is use a warped, badly thought out science excuse to justify his blind faith in his mates word.
I think it's one of those when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail situations. Krauss has been openly, ignorantly hostile to philosophy in the past so I found his excuse to be both amusing and reprehensible.
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Old 1st March 2018, 08:26 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
"I thought these were respectable criminals" is a creative take, but not a very convincing one.
That was never said. What was said was "Just like the victim of a fraudster doesn't know the fraudster is a fraudster until after, the victim of a lie doesn't know the liar is a liar until after."

Thanks for strawmanning the **** out of the discussion though.
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Old 1st March 2018, 08:30 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Still not obvious what this failure of reasoning has to do with the accusations of sexual misconduct against people not named Epstein, though.
Originally Posted by I Am The Scum View Post
I think it's one of those when all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail situations. Krauss has been openly, ignorantly hostile to philosophy in the past so I found his excuse to be both amusing and reprehensible.
Yeah, I was going to say, the whole "Because I am a scientist, and because empirical evidence!" take on Epstein seems to point towards a breathtakingly arrogant, haughty attitude towards mere mortals and their silly moral reasonings about sexual propriety.
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Old 1st March 2018, 08:32 PM   #254
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
That was never said.
It's absolutely, undeniable implicit in the argument.
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Old 1st March 2018, 08:34 PM   #255
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It's basically saying Epstein was left going "Woah, I thought he was a good-guy recruiter of teenage prostitutes who checked their IDs!"

C'mon now.
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Old 1st March 2018, 08:48 PM   #256
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
That was never said. What was said was "Just like the victim of a fraudster doesn't know the fraudster is a fraudster until after, the victim of a lie doesn't know the liar is a liar until after."

Thanks for strawmanning the **** out of the discussion though.
Victim? Let me make this simple.

The customer of a human trafficker has no basis to assert that the trafficked humans were not exactly what he claimed he paid the human trafficker to procure.
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Old 1st March 2018, 09:03 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
It's basically saying Epstein was left going "Woah, I thought he was a good-guy recruiter of teenage prostitutes who checked their IDs!"

C'mon now.
Well, actually, that's exactly what he said and the evidence supports it. How else did a grand jury only return a prostitution charge when several counts of under aged sex were on the table? Think about it carefully without all the pejoratives added in. Many people have been convicted for nothing more than continuing to have faith in someone who proved themselves to be faithful in the past. Wives have lost money because their once successful husband was no longer successful and turned to fraud instead. People have been convicted of tax fraud when once loyal accountants became not so loyal.

Should they have known? Maybe.
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Old 1st March 2018, 09:03 PM   #258
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Shame on all of you for forcing me to agree with The Big Dog.

The nerve of some people!
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Old 1st March 2018, 09:06 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Well, actually, that's exactly what he said and the evidence supports it. How else did a grand jury only return a prostitution charge when several counts of under aged sex were on the table?
He's a fantastically wealthy, lawyered-up man who plea bargained. It's almost amazing he did any time at all.

Although, I suppose going from "That was never said!" to "Well, actually, that's exactly what he said" (aka, "I thought these were respectable criminals") is progress in this discussion.
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Old 1st March 2018, 09:38 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Well, actually, that's exactly what he said and the evidence supports it. How else did a grand jury only return a prostitution charge when several counts of under aged sex were on the table? Think about it carefully without all the pejoratives added in. Many people have been convicted for nothing more than continuing to have faith in someone who proved themselves to be faithful in the past. Wives have lost money because their once successful husband was no longer successful and turned to fraud instead. People have been convicted of tax fraud when once loyal accountants became not so loyal.

Should they have known? Maybe.
Because they “agreed” to present one charge to the grand jury.

Never imagined I would be explaining why Epstein went to prison for over a year to a gaggle of apologists .

He might not have known the the 14 year old the human trafficker procured for him was 14.

Solid argument
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Old 2nd March 2018, 12:21 AM   #261
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Although, I suppose going from "That was never said!" to "Well, actually, that's exactly what he said" (aka, "I thought these were respectable criminals") is progress in this discussion.
Nope, two different statements. Read more carefully.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 12:23 AM   #262
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Because they “agreed” to present one charge to the grand jury.
Must be a different case. In this case the grand jury was presented 4 and returned the one.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 05:45 AM   #263
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Originally Posted by d4m10n View Post
Just for the sake of listing out all the relatively specific accusations against Krauss respecting his alleged maltreatment of women:
  1. Making sexist jokes in the presence of undergraduates
  2. Looking at undergradutes lustfully and openly, e.g. telling a 19-year-old undergraduate that he liked her jumper
  3. Suggesting that an Arizona State’s Origins Project staffer should dress up like a hula girl while advertising for an organizational event
  4. Holding and openly espousing a retrograde attitude towards women of childbearing age in the workplace, including telling an employee at ASU that he was going to buy her birth control so she didn’t inconvenience him with maternity leave
  5. Asking an undergraduate at Case Western Reserve out to dinner, after closing his office door and making jokes, which “could constitute sexual harassment in violation of the university’s sexual harassment policy.”
  6. An unknown infraction at the Perimeter Institute, circa 2012
  7. Propositioning a woman to join him and a female companion for sex in their cabin, during a humanist cruise in 2011
  8. Running his hand up "A.'s" leg under the table at the (hotel?) bar in 2011, during the American Atheists national convention in Des Moines
  9. Groping an unidentified woman’s right breast while posing with her for a selfie at the 2016 Australian skeptics national convention
  10. Non-consensual sexual activity which “was definitely predatory,” in a D.C. hotel in November 2006

I'm not really sure what to think of most of these accusations; so few of the accusers are named, the main accuser changed her story from "made her feel uncomfortable" to straightforward sexual assault. The last three accusations are fairly serious, arguably criminal. The first three could be simple misunderstandings of relatively benign office banter, or perhaps much worse. The proposition for a threesome seems out of place in the list; such things aren't even that far out of bounds at an atheist or skeptic event, if you don't believe me then you haven't been hitting the right parties.
That might be a good place to start.

Number 10 is pretty much straightforward sexual assault if it happened as Melody Hensley says it did:

Quote:
Krauss made a comment about her eye makeup, and got very close to her face. Suddenly, he lifted her by the arms and pushed her onto the bed beneath him, forcibly kissing her and trying to pull down the crotch of her tights. Hensley said she struggled to push him off. When he pulled out a condom, Hensley said, she got out from under him, said “I have to go,” and rushed out of the room.
8&9 could well be pretty bad if deliberate.

Number 7 regardless of being true or false should be dismissed. It's not criminal behaviour and unless the person involved is an employee, a co-worker or a student it cannot be considered sexual harassment.

Numbers 1-6 presumably depend on whether they are true or false but they could easily be considered sexual harassment or otherwise against the policies of Arizona State University:

Quote:
Discrimination
Discrimination is defined under applicable federal and state law. In general, unlawful discrimination means failing to treat people equally based, at least in part, on status that is protected under applicable law or policy. Protected status includes race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, disability, veteran status, sexual orientation, gender identity, and genetic information.
Harassment
Harassment is a specific form of discrimination. It is unwelcome behavior, based on a protected status, which is sufficiently severe or pervasive as to create an intimidating, hostile, or offensive environment for academic pursuits, employment, or participation in university-sponsored programs or activities.
Sexual Harassment
Sexual harassment is harassment, whether between individuals of the same or different sex, which includes unwelcome behavior or conduct of a sexual nature (including unwelcome sexual activity) that is made, either explicitly or implicitly, a condition of an individual’s education, employment, or participation in university-sponsored programs or activities or the submission to or rejection of such behavior or conduct is a factor in decisions affecting that individual’s education, employment, or participation in university-sponsored programs or activities. Sexual harassment is also unwelcome behavior or conduct of a sexual nature (including unwelcome sexual advances or activity), which is sufficiently severe or pervasive as to create an intimidating, hostile, or offensive environment for academic pursuits, employment, or participation in university-sponsored programs or activities.
https://www.asu.edu/aad/manuals/acd/acd401.html
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Old 2nd March 2018, 06:34 AM   #264
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Apparently, a few days ago, there were some statements by Krauss himself and also the Arizona State University.

The ASU wrote in a tweet:

Quote:
ASU has received no complaints from ASU students, faculty or staff related to Lawrence Krauss. The university has initiated a review in an attempt to discern the facts. We encourage anyone who has concerns about faculty, staff or students to report those concerns.
And Krauss has spoken to a media outlet called State Press:

Quote:
Krauss called the BuzzFeed article "slanderous" and "factually incorrect" in an email to The State Press.

"I can assure students that I have always worked hard throughout my career, inside and outside the University, to build and maintain an atmosphere of trust and respect in all of my interactions, and to create an environment where open communication is encouraged," Krauss said in an email.

But during his time at ASU, rumors have circulated, with at least one student hearing about Krauss' inappropriate behavior, concurrent with the "whisper network" described in BuzzFeed's article. Across social media, women have come forward with their experiences working in the same fields as Krauss.
And...

Quote:
ASU said in an official statement that BuzzFeed contacted the University about anonymous complaints about Krauss from current and former ASU employees. The University said BuzzFeed declined to give more information when ASU asked for more details.

"Nevertheless, ASU initiated a review in an attempt to discern the facts surrounding these claims," ASU said in a statement. "That review is ongoing."

In his statement, Krauss said he respects ASU's decision.

"I realize though that some ASU students may be shocked and dismayed and interested in some comment from me at this time," Krauss' statement said. "I appreciate the supportive statement from ASU and also the professional procedures that ASU applies to these issues."
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"The thief and the murderer follow nature just as much as the philanthropist. Cosmic evolution may teach us how the good and the evil tendencies of man may have come about; but, in itself, it is incompetent to furnish any better reason why what we call good is preferable to what we call evil than we had before."

"Evolution and Ethics" T.H. Huxley (1893)
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Old 2nd March 2018, 06:40 AM   #265
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For those of you who are into podcasts:

https://twitter.com/seriouspod/statu...19559553835008

https://seriouspod.com/sio124-lawren...ette-richards/
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Old 2nd March 2018, 07:18 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Must be a different case. In this case the grand jury was presented 4 and returned the one.
Oh golly! My mistake That REALLY makes a difference!

"I wanted to tell you that I have compiled a list of 34 confirmed minors," Villafana wrote to Lefkowitz. "There are six others, whose name [sic] we already have, who need to be interviewed by the FBI to confirm whether they were 17 or 18 at the time of their activity with Mr. Epstein."

Krauss uses "science" to conclude that the 34 confirmed minors were 19 to 23 years old and empirical evidence to demonstrate that they were "interesting."
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Old 2nd March 2018, 08:58 AM   #267
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Nope, two different statements. Read more carefully.
Your first statement was essentially saying "maybe he shouldn't have trusted the sex trafficker?" which presumes that he was fooled by the recruiter and left thinking something along the lines of ""I thought these were respectable criminals". It's a built in part of the the excuse for what happened. And it's BS.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 09:09 AM   #268
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Based on this thread, I have decided that I will no longer trust my sex trafficker to properly vet my "dates". I appreciate you all for putting the E in ISF.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 09:13 AM   #269
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Originally Posted by Dr. Keith View Post
Based on this thread, I have decided that I will no longer trust my sex trafficker to properly vet my "dates". I appreciate you all for putting the E in ISF.
Extradition?
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Old 2nd March 2018, 09:19 AM   #270
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Your first statement was essentially saying "maybe he shouldn't have trusted the sex trafficker?" which presumes that he was fooled by the recruiter and left thinking something along the lines of ""I thought these were respectable criminals". It's a built in part of the the excuse for what happened. And it's BS.
No. The response was no to what I said, the response was to what Epstein was supposed to have said. I simply stated he never said that. The second statement was something I said and is the related to Epsteins claim of not knowing the ages of the girls and one simple explanation of how that could be true.

Two different statements by two different people being painted with pejoratives by hysteria and unreason. If you haven't taken someone you know at their word and been burned, good on ya. You would be the first person like that I have ever met. If you are saying that Epstein should have known, you are also saying that every person who fell for a fraud should have known they were being taken.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 09:47 AM   #271
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
No. The response was no to what I said, the response was to what Epstein was supposed to have said. I simply stated he never said that. The second statement was something I said and is the related to Epsteins claim of not knowing the ages of the girls and one simple explanation of how that could be true.

Two different statements by two different people being painted with pejoratives by hysteria and unreason. If you haven't taken someone you know at their word and been burned, good on ya. You would be the first person like that I have ever met. If you are saying that Epstein should have known, you are also saying that every person who fell for a fraud should have known they were being taken.
I can say without fear of contradiction that I have never been burned by international Human Traffickers who are pimping out dozens of minors for me at my island get-away in the Virgin Islands.

Epstein should have picked a better class of Pimp!

well, argued, well argued indeed.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 09:48 AM   #272
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
If you haven't taken someone [a sex trafficker] you know at their word [that the teenage prostitutes were 18 or older] and been burned, good on ya. You would be the first person like that I have ever met. If you are saying that Epstein should have known, you are also saying that every person who fell for a fraud [purchased teenage prostitutes] should have known they were being taken involved in immoral and illegal activity.
ftfy
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Old 2nd March 2018, 09:51 AM   #273
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post

Epstein should have picked a better class of Pimp!
Apparently he's going with some "Hey, it happens to the best of us, amirite?" theory.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 09:52 AM   #274
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Interesting, item 2. could have been a problem for me three times IF the students involved had misinterpreted the comment (and no one did). 8th grader was in my science class and a boy turned to her and said she looked like a dog. I immediately responded to him "then you have no taste!!" She smiled, he skulked and that was it.
2nd was across the county and 9th grader was a girl from Australia who came in one day with a nicely designed blouse- I noted it was nicely designed (the print material being an aboriginal pattern), she told (the class, not me personally) it was called a jumper (which is why I know the term now). Third, a 9th grader at my last and retired from school, was absent a number of times and it was authorized at the school (and this school had a strong absentee policy). Due to changes in school system policies over the years (due to some very inappropriate "teachers") I was taking no chances BUT due to her dress (way better choices than most students) I figured she was likely doing clothes modeling work). The first day I knew it was when she came in with a note from her parents and addendum by the office saying she needed to go out on a modeling job. My response was "I knew it!!"
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Old 2nd March 2018, 10:00 AM   #275
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
ftfy
That's what SJWs do, they strawman everything to fit their warped narrative. Thanks for the stellar example.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 10:03 AM   #276
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
That's what SJWs do, they strawman everything to fit their warped narrative. Thanks for the stellar example.
Do you think buying a teenage prostitute from a sex trafficker and she turns out to be 14 is pretty much morally the same thing as buying a car that's a lemon from a used car dealer?
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Old 2nd March 2018, 10:11 AM   #277
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
That's what SJWs do, they strawman everything to fit their warped narrative. Thanks for the stellar example.
One does not have to be a SJW to know without fear of contradiction that this:

"If you haven't taken someone you know at their word and been burned, good on ya. You would be the first person like that I have ever met. If you are saying that Epstein should have known, you are also saying that every person who fell for a fraud should have known they were being taken."

is the single most ridiculous, absurd, idiotic made-up excuse for an argument that I have ever seen.

Epstein was knowingly trafficking with pimps and did not give a hot god damn what age the dozens of girls he ********** were.

"I wanted to tell you that I have compiled a list of 34 confirmed minors."

34. Confirmed. Minors.

Call me a SJW
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Old 2nd March 2018, 10:53 AM   #278
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Originally Posted by kellyb View Post
Do you think buying a teenage prostitute from a sex trafficker and she turns out to be 14 is pretty much morally the same thing as buying a car that's a lemon from a used car dealer?
Different question. They are not morally equivalent. They are conceptually equivalent.
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Old 2nd March 2018, 11:01 AM   #279
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Originally Posted by qayak View Post
Different question. They are not morally equivalent. They are conceptually equivalent.
Preposterous.

Conceptually equivalent would be if he and his co-conspirators murdered someone for hire, and the other guy kept slightly more than half of the money.

I admit to being a bit perplexed that someone who is defending someone who has had sex with a "list of 34 confirmed minors."
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Old 2nd March 2018, 01:17 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by The Big Dog View Post
Call me a SJW
Will do!
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