Jordan Peterson Event Report - Page 4

Gulliver Foyle · 22nd November 2022, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Reformed Offlian

I thought Peterson's whole thing was that the doctor who performed the surgery was the baddie here, and not Page?

No he went after Page in a horrific way too.

PS and anyway, just going after the doctor is an implicit statement that Elliot Page doesn't have the maturity/mental capacity to make their own decisions regarding gender identity.

catsmate · 22nd November 2022, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by Reformed Offlian

I thought Peterson's whole thing was that the doctor who performed the surgery was the baddie here, and not Page?

Peterson isn't noted for consistency.

Originally Posted by Samson

Elliot Page had surgery that seems to work and work for he/she/them.
Peterson no doubt argues this is an unusually good outcome and recommends do not try it yourself.
Thus freedom of speech and the unbanning.

What has a transman undergoing, voluntarily, surgery to do with your claim of 'promotion of female butchery"

catsmate · 22nd November 2022, 01:38 PM

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

No he went after Page in a horrific way too.

PS and anyway, just going after the doctor is an implicit statement that Elliot Page doesn't have the maturity/mental capacity to make their own decisions regarding gender identity.

Pretty typical for JP.

Checkmite · 22nd November 2022, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

No he went after Page in a horrific way too.

I sometimes wonder if the way he fixates on Page specifically, of all the transgender individuals there are to aim his abuse at, is revealing. My suspicion is that Peterson likely had a thing for Page pre-transition, making his fury in their case more personal.

Samson · 22nd November 2022, 02:49 PM

Maybe he is thinking to discourage mastectomies such as one Boston hospital has performed recently on 67 girls and young women.
Maybe he is thinking of the adage act in haste, repent at leisure.

plague311 · 22nd November 2022, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

Maybe he is thinking to discourage mastectomies such as one Boston hospital has performed recently on 67 girls and young women.
Maybe he is thinking of the adage act in haste, repent at leisure.

A google search of "Boston Hospital 67 mastectomies" brings up exactly **** and all. You got something to support this? I'm interested because if 1 hospital did 67 of them recently, that is insanely fast turnover.

a_unique_person · 22nd November 2022, 05:15 PM

So you have to pay to see an ad.

tyr_13 · 22nd November 2022, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by plague311

A google search of "Boston Hospital 67 mastectomies" brings up exactly **** and all. You got something to support this? I'm interested because if 1 hospital did 67 of them recently, that is insanely fast turnover.

It's from the brigadeing that libsoftiktok directs.

They lie about children's hospitals and doctors at them, and get their mainstream GOP followers to call in a ton of death and bomb threats. Children's surgeries and cancer treatments keep being interrupted because of it.

Entirely on the premise that these places follow the guidelines of almost every major medical organization on earth and provided gender affirming care, which the GOP types assumes means castration.

No, seriously. They think these hospitals castrate children. Based on statements from them, deceptively edited, that they follow the standards of care.

'Grooming' is now doctors not being stupidly anti-trans.

Warp12 · 22nd November 2022, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

I sometimes wonder if the way he fixates on Page specifically, of all the transgender individuals there are to aim his abuse at, is revealing. My suspicion is that Peterson likely had a thing for Page pre-transition, making his fury in their case more personal.

I doubt that is it. More likely, because it is very high profile transgender.

I don't get the hate for Peterson, tbh. I have rarely heard him say anything that I consider factually suspect. But I don't follow him too closely, either.

Brainster · 22nd November 2022, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by dudalb

That is what happened with L Ron Hubbard. He started Scientology as a scam, and but came to actually beleive the crap he was spouting.

Do you really think Hubbard ever believed it? Or did he say, WTF, these rubes keep sending me the dough, let's keep making up levels?

As for Peterson, he's mostly selling the Bible overall, but not in the hard-sell come to Jesus sense but in the "there are eternal truths" sense.

Norman Alexander · 22nd November 2022, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Do you really think Hubbard ever believed it? Or did he say, WTF, these rubes keep sending me the dough and dumb young women, let's keep making up levels?

Ayup. Grifting 101.

Quote:

As for Peterson, he's mostly selling the Bible overall, but not in the hard-sell come to Jesus sense but in the "there are eternal truths" sense.

As long as they pay him, he will sell his stinking crap to them wrapped in a pseudo-psychological cloak.

Warp12 · 22nd November 2022, 09:49 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

As long as they pay him, he will sell his stinking crap to them wrapped in a pseudo-psychological cloak.

Quote:

Peterson then returned to the University of Alberta and received a BA in psychology in 1984. In 1985, he moved to Montreal to attend McGill University. He earned his PhD in clinical psychology under the supervision of Robert O. Pihl in 1991, and remained as a post-doctoral fellow at McGill's Douglas Hospital until June 1993, working with Pihl and Maurice Dongier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson#Education

I am just guessing that he is more knowledgeable on the topics than most internet experts. But not all, of course.

Brainster · 22nd November 2022, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

Ayup. Grifting 101.

As long as they pay him, he will sell his stinking crap to them wrapped in a pseudo-psychological cloak.

Authors have to supplement their income by speaking engagements because their books are so commonly pirated.

Norman Alexander · 22nd November 2022, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Authors have to supplement their income by speaking engagements because their books are so commonly pirated.

God hasn't done one book-signing since he wrote and published his magnum opus.

Warp12 · 22nd November 2022, 11:00 PM

Originally Posted by Norman Alexander

God hasn't done one book-signing since he wrote and published his magnum opus.

Perhaps he has. How would we know, unless he revealed himself?

Parsman · 23rd November 2022, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson#Education

I am just guessing that he is more knowledgeable on the topics than most internet experts. But not all, of course.

You can be educated and still blinkered, bigoted and a douchebag. Case in point...

catsmate · 23rd November 2022, 02:37 AM

Originally Posted by Samson

Maybe he is thinking to discourage mastectomies such as one Boston hospital has performed recently on 67 girls and young women.
Maybe he is thinking of the adage act in haste, repent at leisure.

Or maybe JP and his lackeys should stop talking bollocks about matters that they don't understand and don't involve them?
But I suppose that would deprive Peterson of the adulation and income.

catsmate · 23rd November 2022, 02:39 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Authors have to supplement their income by speaking engagements because their books are so commonly pirated.

Citations?

Checkmite · 23rd November 2022, 02:41 AM

Originally Posted by Brainster

Do you really think Hubbard ever believed it? Or did he say, WTF, these rubes keep sending me the dough, let's keep making up levels?

I think there came a point at which the outward appearance of his belief had so deeply and inextricably permeated every corner of his life that the question of whether or not he had genuinely internally synthesized those beliefs is purely academic.

The Great Zaganza · 23rd November 2022, 03:02 AM

You don't go looking for gold on a ship with people who you think should be able to sail because their souls used to be able to sail if you are sane.

Checkmite · 23rd November 2022, 03:35 AM

Originally Posted by Warp12

I have rarely heard him say anything that I consider factually suspect. But I don't follow him too closely, either.

It is demonstrably factually untrue that the doctor who performed breast-reduction surgery on Page committed a crime by so doing; nevertheless, Peterson insists that the doctor is a "criminal" and should be arrested and imprisoned for performing the surgery.

Warp12 · 23rd November 2022, 03:53 AM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

It is demonstrably factually untrue that the doctor who performed breast-reduction surgery on Page committed a crime by so doing; nevertheless, Peterson insists that the doctor is a "criminal" and should be arrested and imprisoned for performing the surgery.

Obviously he is suggesting that it should be a crime...not that it technically is one, currently.

He is calling into question the ethics of the surgeon.

Gulliver Foyle · 23rd November 2022, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

I sometimes wonder if the way he fixates on Page specifically, of all the transgender individuals there are to aim his abuse at, is revealing. My suspicion is that Peterson likely had a thing for Page pre-transition, making his fury in their case more personal.

Possibly so. But then again, Peterson strikes me as somebody who doesn't need a reason to be an utter **** of a man.

catsmate · 23rd November 2022, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle

Possibly so. But then again, Peterson strikes me as somebody who doesn't need a reason to be an utter **** of a man.

True.

I see Peterson is on Ancient Apocalypse with Graham Hancock, that's about his level.

Carrot Flower King · 23rd November 2022, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by catsmate

True.

I see Peterson is on Ancient Apocalypse with Graham Hancock, that's about his level.

The friends you keep...

And Joe Rogan...

Samson · 23rd November 2022, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Checkmite

It is demonstrably factually untrue that the doctor who performed breast-reduction surgery on Page committed a crime by so doing; nevertheless, Peterson insists that the doctor is a "criminal" and should be arrested and imprisoned for performing the surgery.

A view I would prefer to be in the sun light.
In every sense more worthy of analysis than election result denial or an innocent man should be executed where due process is sound.

arthwollipot · 23rd November 2022, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

Obviously he is suggesting that it should be a crime...not that it technically is one, currently.

He is calling into question the ethics of the surgeon.

Which is a massively ****** thing to do.

Warp12 · 23rd November 2022, 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Which is a massively ****** thing to do.

That is one opinion, sure.

Samson · 23rd November 2022, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by arthwollipot

Which is a massively ****** thing to do.

Not sure what the missing word is but follow the money in the USA as is pointed out in another thread.

arthwollipot · 23rd November 2022, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by Samson

Not sure what the missing word is but follow the money in the USA as is pointed out in another thread.

Unfortunately we're in the public section of the forum so I have to let the autocensor do its thing. Suffice to say that I'm not saying that it's a nice thing to do.

tyr_13 · 23rd November 2022, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

That is one opinion, sure.

And a better, more ethical and well supported, one than Peterson's nonsense hate-on.

They are not on the same level just because they are both 'opinion'.

arthwollipot · 23rd November 2022, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

And a better, more ethical and well supported, one than Peterson's nonsense hate-on.

They are not on the same level just because they are both 'opinion'.

Agreed. There are acceptable opinions and then there are massively ****** opinions. Peterson's opinion on the ethics of gender-affirming surgery are massively ******.

arthwollipot · 23rd November 2022, 07:24 PM

Huh. I had no idea.

Quote:

Controversial Canadian speaker Jordan Peterson is in Parliament House today, giving a talk to some Coalition MPs in a committee room.

Nationals senator Matt Canavan’s office sent out invitations to MPs and their staff for a “speaking event” this afternoon. We’ve walked past the room and seen a packed audience - including a number of MPs from the Coalition and One Nation - listening as Peterson spoke.

There’s also security posted outside the door.

In an invitation to the event, seen by Guardian Australia, Canavan’s office says there was “huge interest” in the event. They also noted that despite it being scheduled for lunchtime, there would be no lunch provided.

Peterson is visiting the country on a speaking tour of Australia.

source

Makes sense he's speaking to the ousted right-wing Coalition and the openly racist One Nation.

Warp12 · 23rd November 2022, 07:26 PM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

And a better, more ethical and well supported, one than Peterson's nonsense hate-on.

They are not on the same level just because they are both 'opinion'.

That is also an opinion. I lean towards Peterson's position, tbh. Although it is a bit of a conundrum.

But I am not going to debate it in this thread.

tyr_13 · 23rd November 2022, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

That is also an opinion.

And a better one than yours.

Quote:

I lean towards Peterson's position, tbh. Although it is a bit of a conundrum.

But I am not going to debate it in this thread.

Then don't. But this thread is on his merits as a speaker and thinker, so that doesn't leave much for you to contribute if you don't want to talk about his views and how he supports them.

Warp12 · 23rd November 2022, 10:36 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

That is also an opinion.

Originally Posted by tyr_13

And a better one than yours.

No doubt you think that. That is why we call them opinions, right? We each have our own, that works for us.

tyr_13 · 23rd November 2022, 10:40 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

No doubt you think that. That is why we call them opinions, right? We each have our own, that works for us.

Nope. They don't work if they don't have valid support.

It isn't worth more, or anything, because it's yours. It isn't worth more because you're entitled to it. If you don't understand that opinions are not all equal, then I can see why you'd be a fan of Peterson. If you do understand that but are selectively ignoring it, you're engaged in the manipulation technique often employed by psychopaths known as 'leveling'.

Perhaps Peterson has spoken of 'leveling' seeing as he has a background where he would have learned of it?

Warp12 · 23rd November 2022, 10:43 PM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

If you do understand that but are selectively ignoring it, you're engaged in the manipulation technique often employed by psychopaths known as 'leveling'.

Is this where you are lowkey suggesting that I might be a psychopath?

That is a really odd retort, tbh. Seems extreme, given the civil nature of the discussion thus far.

tyr_13 · 23rd November 2022, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by Warp12

Is this where you are lowkey suggesting that I might be a psychopath?

That is a really odd retort, tbh. Seems extreme, given the civil nature of the discussion thus far.

No, that was describing where you might have seen 'leveling' as a manipulation technique before and another term to get more information about it.

There are far easier ways to just insult you.

Warp12 · 23rd November 2022, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by tyr_13

There are far easier ways to just insult you.

Cool. Keep your options open.

In the meantime, I never said all opinions are equal. Just that we all have one; and we naturally consider our own to have more merit than the opposing one. In this case, I consider your position without merit, but I am not interested in debating it with you. We have another thread or two where people duke it out on those matters.

No complex psychological analysis needed. No need to imply anyone is a psycho. Easy.

22nd November 2022, 10:53 AM	#121
Gulliver Foyle Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 1,260	Originally Posted by Reformed Offlian I thought Peterson's whole thing was that the doctor who performed the surgery was the baddie here, and not Page? No he went after Page in a horrific way too. PS and anyway, just going after the doctor is an implicit statement that Elliot Page doesn't have the maturity/mental capacity to make their own decisions regarding gender identity.
	Last edited by Gulliver Foyle; 22nd November 2022 at 10:54 AM.

22nd November 2022, 01:37 PM	#122
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 28,079	Originally Posted by Reformed Offlian I thought Peterson's whole thing was that the doctor who performed the surgery was the baddie here, and not Page? Peterson isn't noted for consistency. Originally Posted by Samson Elliot Page had surgery that seems to work and work for he/she/them. Peterson no doubt argues this is an unusually good outcome and recommends do not try it yourself. Thus freedom of speech and the unbanning. What has a transman undergoing, voluntarily, surgery to do with your claim of 'promotion of female butchery"
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

22nd November 2022, 01:38 PM	#123
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 28,079	Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle No he went after Page in a horrific way too. PS and anyway, just going after the doctor is an implicit statement that Elliot Page doesn't have the maturity/mental capacity to make their own decisions regarding gender identity. Pretty typical for JP.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

22nd November 2022, 01:41 PM	#124
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 28,078	Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle No he went after Page in a horrific way too. I sometimes wonder if the way he fixates on Page specifically, of all the transgender individuals there are to aim his abuse at, is revealing. My suspicion is that Peterson likely had a thing for Page pre-transition, making his fury in their case more personal.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

22nd November 2022, 03:06 PM	#126
plague311 Great minds think... Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: North Dakota Posts: 13,789	Originally Posted by Samson Maybe he is thinking to discourage mastectomies such as one Boston hospital has performed recently on 67 girls and young women. Maybe he is thinking of the adage act in haste, repent at leisure. A google search of "Boston Hospital 67 mastectomies" brings up exactly **** and all. You got something to support this? I'm interested because if 1 hospital did 67 of them recently, that is insanely fast turnover.
	__________________ “There are times when the mind is dealt such a blow it hides itself in insanity. While this may not seem beneficial, it is. There are times when reality is nothing but pain, and to escape that pain the mind must leave reality behind.” - Patrick Rothfuss

22nd November 2022, 02:49 PM	#125
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,340	Maybe he is thinking to discourage mastectomies such as one Boston hospital has performed recently on 67 girls and young women. Maybe he is thinking of the adage act in haste, repent at leisure.

22nd November 2022, 05:15 PM	#127
a_unique_person Director of Hatcheries and Conditioning Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Waiting for the pod bay door to open. Posts: 45,027	So you have to pay to see an ad.
	__________________ *Continually pushing the boundaries of mediocrity.* Everything is possible, but not everything is probable. “Perception is real, but the truth is not.” - Imelda Marcos

22nd November 2022, 08:50 PM	#128
tyr_13 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 17,532	Originally Posted by plague311 A google search of "Boston Hospital 67 mastectomies" brings up exactly **** and all. You got something to support this? I'm interested because if 1 hospital did 67 of them recently, that is insanely fast turnover. It's from the brigadeing that libsoftiktok directs. They lie about children's hospitals and doctors at them, and get their mainstream GOP followers to call in a ton of death and bomb threats. Children's surgeries and cancer treatments keep being interrupted because of it. Entirely on the premise that these places follow the guidelines of almost every major medical organization on earth and provided gender affirming care, which the GOP types assumes means castration. No, seriously. They think these hospitals castrate children. Based on statements from them, deceptively edited, that they follow the standards of care. 'Grooming' is now doctors not being stupidly anti-trans.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong

22nd November 2022, 09:08 PM	#129
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by Checkmite I sometimes wonder if the way he fixates on Page specifically, of all the transgender individuals there are to aim his abuse at, is revealing. My suspicion is that Peterson likely had a thing for Page pre-transition, making his fury in their case more personal. I doubt that is it. More likely, because it is very high profile transgender. I don't get the hate for Peterson, tbh. I have rarely heard him say anything that I consider factually suspect. But I don't follow him too closely, either.

22nd November 2022, 09:41 PM	#130
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 19,687	Originally Posted by dudalb That is what happened with L Ron Hubbard. He started Scientology as a scam, and but came to actually beleive the crap he was spouting. Do you really think Hubbard ever believed it? Or did he say, WTF, these rubes keep sending me the dough, let's keep making up levels? As for Peterson, he's mostly selling the Bible overall, but not in the hard-sell come to Jesus sense but in the "there are eternal truths" sense.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

22nd November 2022, 09:45 PM	#131
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,168	Originally Posted by Brainster Do you really think Hubbard ever believed it? Or did he say, WTF, these rubes keep sending me the dough and dumb young women, let's keep making up levels? Ayup. Grifting 101. Quote: As for Peterson, he's mostly selling the Bible overall, but not in the hard-sell come to Jesus sense but in the "there are eternal truths" sense. As long as they pay him, he will sell his stinking crap to them wrapped in a pseudo-psychological cloak.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

22nd November 2022, 09:49 PM	#132
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander As long as they pay him, he will sell his stinking crap to them wrapped in a pseudo-psychological cloak. Quote: Peterson then returned to the University of Alberta and received a BA in psychology in 1984. In 1985, he moved to Montreal to attend McGill University. He earned his PhD in clinical psychology under the supervision of Robert O. Pihl in 1991, and remained as a post-doctoral fellow at McGill's Douglas Hospital until June 1993, working with Pihl and Maurice Dongier. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson#Education I am just guessing that he is more knowledgeable on the topics than most internet experts. But not all, of course.
	Last edited by Warp12; 22nd November 2022 at 09:51 PM.

22nd November 2022, 09:56 PM	#133
Brainster Penultimate Amazing Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 19,687	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander Ayup. Grifting 101. As long as they pay him, he will sell his stinking crap to them wrapped in a pseudo-psychological cloak. Authors have to supplement their income by speaking engagements because their books are so commonly pirated.
	__________________ My new blog: Recent Reads. 1960s Comic Book Nostalgia Visit the Screw Loose Change blog.

22nd November 2022, 10:54 PM	#134
Norman Alexander Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Dharug & Gundungurra Posts: 14,168	Originally Posted by Brainster Authors have to supplement their income by speaking engagements because their books are so commonly pirated. God hasn't done one book-signing since he wrote and published his magnum opus.
	__________________ _{...our governments are just trying to protect us from terror. In the same way that someone banging a hornets’ nest with a stick is trying to protect us from hornets. Frankie Boyle, Guardian, July 2015}

22nd November 2022, 11:00 PM	#135
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by Norman Alexander God hasn't done one book-signing since he wrote and published his magnum opus. Perhaps he has. How would we know, unless he revealed himself?

23rd November 2022, 01:46 AM	#136
Parsman Muse Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bonnie Scotland Posts: 913	Originally Posted by Warp12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Peterson#Education I am just guessing that he is more knowledgeable on the topics than most internet experts. But not all, of course. You can be educated and still blinkered, bigoted and a douchebag. Case in point...
	__________________ I was not; I have been; I am not; I am content - Epicurus When you're dead you don't know that you're dead, all the pain is felt by others....................the same thing happens when you're stupid.

23rd November 2022, 02:37 AM	#137
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 28,079	Originally Posted by Samson Maybe he is thinking to discourage mastectomies such as one Boston hospital has performed recently on 67 girls and young women. Maybe he is thinking of the adage act in haste, repent at leisure. Or maybe JP and his lackeys should stop talking bollocks about matters that they don't understand and don't involve them? But I suppose that would deprive Peterson of the adulation and income.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

23rd November 2022, 02:39 AM	#138
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 28,079	Originally Posted by Brainster Authors have to supplement their income by speaking engagements because their books are so commonly pirated. Citations?
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

23rd November 2022, 02:41 AM	#139
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 28,078	Originally Posted by Brainster Do you really think Hubbard ever believed it? Or did he say, WTF, these rubes keep sending me the dough, let's keep making up levels? I think there came a point at which the outward appearance of his belief had so deeply and inextricably permeated every corner of his life that the question of whether or not he had genuinely internally synthesized those beliefs is purely academic.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

23rd November 2022, 03:02 AM	#140
The Great Zaganza Maledictorian Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 19,528	You don't go looking for gold on a ship with people who you think should be able to sail because their souls used to be able to sail if you are sane.
	__________________ "The only true paradise is paradise lost" Marcel Proust

23rd November 2022, 03:35 AM	#141
Checkmite Skepticifimisticalationist Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Gulf Coast Posts: 28,078	Originally Posted by Warp12 I have rarely heard him say anything that I consider factually suspect. But I don't follow him too closely, either. It is demonstrably factually untrue that the doctor who performed breast-reduction surgery on Page committed a crime by so doing; nevertheless, Peterson insists that the doctor is a "criminal" and should be arrested and imprisoned for performing the surgery.
	__________________ "¿WHAT KIND OF BIRD? ¿A PARANORMAL BIRD?" --- Carlos S., 2002

23rd November 2022, 03:53 AM	#142
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by Checkmite It is demonstrably factually untrue that the doctor who performed breast-reduction surgery on Page committed a crime by so doing; nevertheless, Peterson insists that the doctor is a "criminal" and should be arrested and imprisoned for performing the surgery. Obviously he is suggesting that it should be a crime...not that it technically is one, currently. He is calling into question the ethics of the surgeon.

23rd November 2022, 10:59 AM	#143
Gulliver Foyle Graduate Poster Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Cork baaaiii Posts: 1,260	Originally Posted by Checkmite I sometimes wonder if the way he fixates on Page specifically, of all the transgender individuals there are to aim his abuse at, is revealing. My suspicion is that Peterson likely had a thing for Page pre-transition, making his fury in their case more personal. Possibly so. But then again, Peterson strikes me as somebody who doesn't need a reason to be an utter **** of a man.

23rd November 2022, 11:44 AM	#144
catsmate No longer the 1 Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 28,079	Originally Posted by Gulliver Foyle Possibly so. But then again, Peterson strikes me as somebody who doesn't need a reason to be an utter **** of a man. True. I see Peterson is on Ancient Apocalypse with Graham Hancock, that's about his level.
	__________________ As human right is always something given, it always in reality reduces to the right which men give, "concede," to each other. If the right to existence is conceded to new-born children, then they have the right; if it is not conceded to them, as was the case among the Spartans and ancient Romans, then they do not have it. For only society can give or concede it to them; they themselves cannot take it, or give it to themselves.

23rd November 2022, 11:48 AM	#145
Carrot Flower King Illuminator Join Date: Mar 2020 Location: Northumberland, UK Posts: 3,594	Originally Posted by catsmate True. I see Peterson is on Ancient Apocalypse with Graham Hancock, that's about his level. The friends you keep... And Joe Rogan...

23rd November 2022, 12:21 PM	#146
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,340	Originally Posted by Checkmite It is demonstrably factually untrue that the doctor who performed breast-reduction surgery on Page committed a crime by so doing; nevertheless, Peterson insists that the doctor is a "criminal" and should be arrested and imprisoned for performing the surgery. A view I would prefer to be in the sun light. In every sense more worthy of analysis than election result denial or an innocent man should be executed where due process is sound.

23rd November 2022, 06:05 PM	#147
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 80,717	Originally Posted by Warp12 Obviously he is suggesting that it should be a crime...not that it technically is one, currently. He is calling into question the ethics of the surgeon. Which is a massively ****** thing to do.
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23rd November 2022, 06:25 PM	#148
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Which is a massively ****** thing to do. That is one opinion, sure.

23rd November 2022, 06:41 PM	#149
Samson Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 10,340	Originally Posted by arthwollipot Which is a massively ****** thing to do. Not sure what the missing word is but follow the money in the USA as is pointed out in another thread.

23rd November 2022, 06:56 PM	#150
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 80,717	Originally Posted by Samson Not sure what the missing word is but follow the money in the USA as is pointed out in another thread. Unfortunately we're in the public section of the forum so I have to let the autocensor do its thing. Suffice to say that I'm not saying that it's a nice thing to do.
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23rd November 2022, 06:58 PM	#151
tyr_13 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 17,532	Originally Posted by Warp12 That is one opinion, sure. And a better, more ethical and well supported, one than Peterson's nonsense hate-on. They are not on the same level just because they are both 'opinion'.
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23rd November 2022, 07:00 PM	#152
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 80,717	Originally Posted by tyr_13 And a better, more ethical and well supported, one than Peterson's nonsense hate-on. They are not on the same level just because they are both 'opinion'. Agreed. There are acceptable opinions and then there are massively **** opinions. Peterson's opinion on the ethics of gender-affirming surgery are massively ****.
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23rd November 2022, 07:24 PM	#153
arthwollipot Observer of Phenomena Pronouns: he/him Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Ngunnawal Country Posts: 80,717	Huh. I had no idea. Quote: Controversial Canadian speaker Jordan Peterson is in Parliament House today, giving a talk to some Coalition MPs in a committee room. Nationals senator Matt Canavan’s office sent out invitations to MPs and their staff for a “speaking event” this afternoon. We’ve walked past the room and seen a packed audience - including a number of MPs from the Coalition and One Nation - listening as Peterson spoke. There’s also security posted outside the door. In an invitation to the event, seen by Guardian Australia, Canavan’s office says there was “huge interest” in the event. They also noted that despite it being scheduled for lunchtime, there would be no lunch provided. Peterson is visiting the country on a speaking tour of Australia. source Makes sense he's speaking to the ousted right-wing Coalition and the openly racist One Nation.
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23rd November 2022, 07:26 PM	#154
Warp12 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: USA Posts: 7,583	Originally Posted by tyr_13 And a better, more ethical and well supported, one than Peterson's nonsense hate-on. They are not on the same level just because they are both 'opinion'. That is also an opinion. I lean towards Peterson's position, tbh. Although it is a bit of a conundrum. But I am not going to debate it in this thread.

23rd November 2022, 10:34 PM	#155
tyr_13 Penultimate Amazing Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 17,532	Originally Posted by Warp12 That is also an opinion. And a better one than yours. Quote: I lean towards Peterson's position, tbh. Although it is a bit of a conundrum. But I am not going to debate it in this thread. Then don't. But this thread is on his merits as a speaker and thinker, so that doesn't leave much for you to contribute if you don't want to talk about his views and how he supports them.
	__________________ Circled nothing is still nothing. "Nothing will stop the U.S. from being a world leader, not even a handful of adults who want their kids to take science lessons from a book that mentions unicorns six times." -UNLoVedRebel Mumpsimus: a stubborn person who insists on making an error in spite of being shown that it is wrong