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Tags murder cases , Oscar Pistorius , South Africa cases

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Old 17th April 2018, 05:49 AM   #921
Samson
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
I tell you what, Samson. Rather than go around and around in circles with you on this, let's discuss it when Pistorius is released. Just as I'll discuss Bamber when he has died.
Bamber will be out soon, but there is a thread for that.
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Old 18th April 2018, 12:24 PM   #922
The Atheist
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
I don't see this as murder, but we are going in circles sadly.
Yes, and like all good skeptics when wrong, you're not even entertaining the idea that you're wrong.

The thread has been going in circles for thousands of posts.

Why stop now?
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Old 18th April 2018, 04:32 PM   #923
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
Oh Christ. The hero worshipping judge (like you) who was proven wrong.

Accept it, you hero is a scumbag murderer. He knew what he was doing, murdering Reeva, and is finally paying the price.

Well (to continue the magic circle once again....) Pistorius was not specifically convicted of the murder of Reeva Steenkamp. And that's the critical point underpinning why Samson is wrong on this issue.

Rather, Pistorius was convicted of the murder of someone he knew to be a human being - that is to say, he intentionally fired a lethal weapon through a thin wooden internal door in the direction of someone he believed to be a human being, in an act which he must have known could have resulted in the death or very serious injury of that person, at a point where he provably was not in real or imminent threat of personal harm from the person behind that door. Whether he believed it was Steenkamp or the mythical intruder behind that door, we will never know (unless Pistorius ever confesses to knowing it was Steenkamp, of course), though logic and all the available evidence/testimony very strongly suggests (IMO) that Pistorius knew full well it was Steenkamp. But in fact the identity of the victim is immaterial to the murder conviction.

Here in the UK, there was a famous case several years ago in Liverpool where a gang member cycled to a pub car park, and opened fire in the direction of a rival gang member on the other side of the car park. He was a bad shot and he missed his intended target, but instead he struck and killed an 11-year-old boy bystander. The gunman was subsequently found and convicted of murder: in this instance, he hadn't even intended to harm the boy, but the court correctly found for murder on the basis that the very act of intentionally firing a lethal weapon in the (by definition) general direction of a human being constitutes murder if you happen to hit and kill someone. And while SA and E&W laws will obviously differ, SA statute and case law is heavily based on that of E&W, so this is a relevant comparator.

Last edited by LondonJohn; 18th April 2018 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 18th April 2018, 05:32 PM   #924
Ampulla of Vater
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Originally Posted by Samson View Post
This is the forum where we should be nuanced, of course it was either murder (he knew damn well Reeva was behind the door), or some other form of homicide. And everyone forgets that four shots could not be sure to kill, tragically there was one bullet that shattered her head.


Wait, what? Is your point here that 4 bullets could not be “sure to kill” and because of that and because of a tragic happenstance that one of the bullets “shattered her head,” is some kind of proof of a lack of intent to kill?
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Old 18th April 2018, 05:39 PM   #925
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
[/hilite]
Wait, what? Is your point here that 4 bullets could not be “sure to kill” and because of that and because of a tragic happenstance that one of the bullets “shattered her head,” is some kind of proof of a lack of intent to kill?
Her killing was just an unfortunate accident. He should ave been charged with "discharging a firearm in a careless manner". Or something...
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Old 18th April 2018, 09:51 PM   #926
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
[/hilite]
Wait, what? Is your point here that 4 bullets could not be “sure to kill” and because of that and because of a tragic happenstance that one of the bullets “shattered her head,” is some kind of proof of a lack of intent to kill?
Now you've got it. A fish dying while someone is shooting fish in a barrel is simply a tragic accident.
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Old 18th April 2018, 10:45 PM   #927
MikeG
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Originally Posted by Ampulla of Vater View Post
.......Wait, what? Is your point here that 4 bullets could not be “sure to kill” and because of that and because of a tragic happenstance that one of the bullets “shattered her head,” is some kind of proof of a lack of intent to kill?
Samson forgets that an intent to kill isn't a necessary part of an act of murder, as LondonJohn has just explained (again). We're right, you're wrong, Samson, and that's even when we accept the points you raise in favour of your belief.
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Old 6th September 2018, 03:45 PM   #928
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https://www.imdb.com/list/ls05318164...f_=vi_prev_btn

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt5556152...m_hp_cap_pri_3
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Old 12th September 2018, 04:33 PM   #929
Samson
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Is this new information?

................. " The documentary reveals for the first time that a mysterious picture message was sent to Pistorius' phone shortly before the murder which may have sparked a fierce row between him and Reeva.

Previously, it was thought that Pistorius had reacted in a jealous rage to a message on Reeva's phone but the series suggests it may have been the other way around.

Phone records obtained by the production crew show that he received a message at 1.48am on the morning of February 14, 2013 – just 10 minutes neighbours said they heard shouting come from Pistorius' home.

His mobile was later sent off for analysis by police and found to have been connected to a computer owned by Pistorius' brother, Carl.

Recalling how police suspected Carl had wiped the phone clean, journalist Toby Shapshak tells the documentary: "When the phone comes back eventually and the information on the phone is accessed it shows that the phone has been plugged into a computer called 'titaniumhulk', which is the Twitter handle of his brother Carl.

"Now if we look at the data usage of his phone at that time, in the middle of all this there is a very suspicious amount of data and it is at 1.48am in the morning that the duration of the data connection is 309 seconds, which is 5minutes an 15 seconds and it amounts to 58kb.

"If that was one individual message it would probably be a photograph or a WhatsApp message.

"The interesting thing about this is that it's about 10 minutes before one of his neighbour's says she hears a lot of arguing."

Author Melinda Ferguson, who has written a biography on Pistorius, tells the documentary: "Most people think 'Oh Reeva was so beautiful, I'm sure Oscar was so jealous of Reeva and she must have been cheating". But what happens if it was the other way round?

"What happens if it was Oscar who was cheating? And it was Reeva who was insecure and jealous, feeling like her relationship was falling apart?

"So for me it's really interesting to think of it the other way, that it was Reeva who was trying to see what messages were being sent to Oscar's phone.".......


https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/new...ectid=12124272

This looks like hard data that may have woken Oscar, thus he gets up and moves the fan. This wakes Reeva who slips silently to the bathroom.

On the other hand the screaming can still be timed to come after the gunshots, which is the only plausible way Oscar's story is true.
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