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Old 6th March 2018, 03:32 AM   #2201
Tolls
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Who'd have thought this would be so complicated?
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Old 6th March 2018, 04:02 AM   #2202
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Originally Posted by Wildy View Post
For some reason searching and accessing the article through google worked for me.

I wonder if the US is holding out for access to the British Virgin Islands and the Caymans?
It is usually the case that going to the FT through Google or a Twitter link will bypass the paywall. It's sometimes worth Googling for an article for that purpose.
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Old 6th March 2018, 04:19 AM   #2203
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Originally Posted by ojno View Post
Some key points from the FT article.
In other words UK wants special treatment to simply get back to where we already were before Brexit
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Old 6th March 2018, 04:22 AM   #2204
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I see Arlene Fosters face is tripping her again today. What a pity
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Old 6th March 2018, 12:21 PM   #2205
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Old 7th March 2018, 02:19 AM   #2206
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Traitors!

...or something.
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Old 7th March 2018, 02:39 AM   #2207
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
Traitors!

...or something.

Traitors: People who fail to applaud their Fearless Leader.
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Old 8th March 2018, 07:12 AM   #2208
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Quote:
The European Commission today formally demanded that the U.K. pay €2.7 billion into the EU budget after investigators found that British authorities allowed a massive fraud network originating in China to evade paying the appropriate level of customs duties.
https://www.politico.eu/article/brus...ustoms-duties/

So, about that invisible border in NI...
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Old 8th March 2018, 08:08 AM   #2209
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Europe demands we pay Europe because we bought cheap clothes from China. This is yet another example of why leaving the EU is a good and necessary thing.
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Old 8th March 2018, 08:26 AM   #2210
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Europe demands we pay Europe because we bought cheap clothes from China.
No, the EU demands you pay the EU because you didn't charge the required duties even though you were warned by the EU that your chinese suppliers were, among other things, under-invoicing. But you would have known that if you had bothered to actually read the article.

Quote:
This is yet another example of why leaving the EU is a good and necessary thing.
Here I am starting to agree with you... even if my reasoning is vastly different from yours. The UK clearly cannot be trusted to honour its obligations. Thus far the UK government has not given even the slightest hint that this is something that's going to change any time soon. Thus the EU is much better off with the UK completely removed from this valuable project.

March 2019 the UK can and should revert to WTO rules, without a transition period. Good riddance.
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Old 8th March 2018, 08:36 AM   #2211
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The EU is also demanding that they will keep full rights to fish UK waters after Brexit. But that is not cherry picking, of course, Cherry picking is something that the EU would never want to do.
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Old 8th March 2018, 08:38 AM   #2212
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I did read the article by the way. Ignorant of you to assume that I didn't.
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Old 8th March 2018, 08:45 AM   #2213
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
I did read the article by the way.
So you say... your comment didn't reflect that though.

Quote:
Ignorant of you to assume that I didn't.
No, it was rather hopeful of me to assume that you hadn't read the article. Because the alternatives (to not having read the article) are worse.
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Old 8th March 2018, 08:46 AM   #2214
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The EU is also demanding that they will keep full rights to fish UK waters after Brexit. But that is not cherry picking, of course, Cherry picking is something that the EU would never want to do.
A lazy Google says that UK waters account for 700,000 tonnes of fish under the CFP, yet the UK's share of the overall EU catch is 752,000. That seems fairly balanced. I would presume that what UK vessels are catching in non-UK waters is not the same as what other EU vessels are catching in UK waters. If other EU vessels stop operating in UK waters, then obviously UK vessels would have to stop operating in other EU waters, but might not actually be the right type of vessel to transfer to UK waters.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 8th March 2018 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 8th March 2018, 10:44 AM   #2215
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Europe demands we pay Europe because we bought cheap clothes from China. This is yet another example of why leaving the EU is a good and necessary thing.
Yep this is as wrong as the UK government being upset by people not being charged the VAT on things. Failure to pay taxes is the most fundamental right of every freeman of the land and it is something the UK is most associated with.
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Old 8th March 2018, 01:02 PM   #2216
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The EU is mainly complaining about insufficient duty/tariffs - the VAT is a secondary issue.

The EU is simply behaving in its usual protectionist racket mode - it is unable to compete with China in the production of cheap clothes so it applies a tariff to inflate the price of such clothes to nearer the price they can be made for in the EU.

If I buy a cheap Chinese T-shirt, I pay the manufacturers maybe $1, the shippers and handlers another $1, and then the EU wants me to also pay another $1 to them to be wasted by the EU bureaucracy.

Once we've left the EU we'll get the benefit of cheaper clothes while our European neighbours will continue to hand over their hard-earned cash to Brussels.

And you wonder why the majority voted to leave.
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Old 8th March 2018, 02:14 PM   #2217
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The EU is mainly complaining about insufficient duty/tariffs - the VAT is a secondary issue.
They are both taxes, colluding to avoid paying them is morally the same. You don't think people need to pay their taxes and many people agree with that. Keep your comments on point.

And think of all the new import duties on EU-UK trade!
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Old 8th March 2018, 03:50 PM   #2218
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Europe demands we pay Europe because we bought cheap clothes from China. This is yet another example of why leaving the EU is a good and necessary thing.
The UK knowingly let Chinese import cheap clothes without paying customs and without paying proper VAT. A percentage of that is due to the EU. Therefore, the UK failed to pay its obligations to the EU.

When I fail to pay my taxes, the Tax Office will seize my bank account and then auction off my home and my furniture when I still haven't paid in full. I think the EU has thus far been very nice to the UK in this matter.
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Old 8th March 2018, 08:16 PM   #2219
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The EU is mainly complaining about insufficient duty/tariffs - the VAT is a secondary issue.

The EU is simply behaving in its usual protectionist racket mode - it is unable to compete with China in the production of cheap clothes so it applies a tariff to inflate the price of such clothes to nearer the price they can be made for in the EU.

Congratuations. You seem to have discovered the purpose for tariffs.

Quote:

<snip>

Once we've left the EU we'll get the benefit of cheaper clothes while our European neighbours will continue to hand over their hard-earned cash to Brussels.

How will the British workers making clothes in the U.K. feel about that? Will they be glad that their countrymen will now be able to by cheaper clothes from China instead of handing over their hard-earned cash for clothes made at home?

Quote:

And you wonder why the majority voted to leave.

I never wondered that. It was pretty obvious it was to keep all those nasty furriners from flooding into the country. Oh yeah, and that extra 350 million per week for the NHS.

Are you saying it was really because they wanted to buy cheaper stuff from China instead of buying locally made products?
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Last edited by quadraginta; 8th March 2018 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 8th March 2018, 08:41 PM   #2220
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The EU is mainly complaining about insufficient duty/tariffs - the VAT is a secondary issue.

The EU is simply behaving in its usual protectionist racket mode - it is unable to compete with China in the production of cheap clothes so it applies a tariff to inflate the price of such clothes to nearer the price they can be made for in the EU.
No

Quote:
If I buy a cheap Chinese T-shirt, I pay the manufacturers maybe $1, the shippers and handlers another $1, and then the EU wants me to also pay another $1 to them to be wasted by the EU bureaucracy.
How about you pay (at the under-invoiced prices) the manufacturers about 15 cents (or 22 cents at market rates). Throw in another 5 cents for shipping and handling. Import duty seems to be about 12% on the CIF cost of the tshirt, so that would be around 2.50 cents (or 3.25 cents at market rates). Congratulations... your cheap t-shirt cost is now 22.50 cents when it enters the EU market. The 'more expensive' t-shirt would have cost a whopping 30.25 cents when it enters the EU market.

Quote:
Once we've left the EU we'll get the benefit of cheaper clothes while our European neighbours will continue to hand over their hard-earned cash to Brussels.
I think you'll be disappointed by the benefits... but sure after March 2019 I suppose you should be able to get your t-shirts a few cents cheaper than before.


Quote:
And you wonder why the majority voted to leave.
No, not any longer.
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Old 9th March 2018, 12:02 PM   #2221
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The EU is mainly complaining about insufficient duty/tariffs - the VAT is a secondary issue.

The EU is simply behaving in its usual protectionist racket mode - it is unable to compete with China in the production of cheap clothes so it applies a tariff to inflate the price of such clothes to nearer the price they can be made for in the EU.

If I buy a cheap Chinese T-shirt, I pay the manufacturers maybe $1, the shippers and handlers another $1, and then the EU wants me to also pay another $1 to them to be wasted by the EU bureaucracy.

Once we've left the EU we'll get the benefit of cheaper clothes while our European neighbours will continue to hand over their hard-earned cash to Brussels.

And you wonder why the majority voted to leave.
You really think they would pass on any savings?
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Old 9th March 2018, 01:21 PM   #2222
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Originally Posted by a_unique_person View Post
You really think they would pass on any savings?
Smugglers are known for their honesty right?
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Old 9th March 2018, 02:36 PM   #2223
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I keep hearing how the EU model is unfair/wasteful.

Please provide an example of a system that allows you to buy cheap imported goods without any burdens while also not eroding employment and earnings.

Otherwise I'm going to assume "wasteful bureaucracy" is just code for "I don't understand how social services are funded and other complex economic issues."

ETA: without any customs controls, we will all succumb to the work conditions of the lowest bidder.

This is where the tapatalk signature that annoys people used to be

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Old 9th March 2018, 02:46 PM   #2224
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Smugglers are known for their honesty right?
We know they don't shoot first?
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Old 9th March 2018, 03:05 PM   #2225
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Originally Posted by Delphic Oracle View Post
I keep hearing how the EU model is unfair/wasteful.

Please provide an example of a system that allows you to buy cheap imported goods without any burdens while also not eroding employment and earnings.

Otherwise I'm going to assume "wasteful bureaucracy" is just code for "I don't understand how social services are funded and other complex economic issues."

ETA: without any customs controls, we will all succumb to the work conditions of the lowest bidder.

This is where the tapatalk signature that annoys people used to be
Found this via reddit:

https://i.redd.it/hr50hdl67lk01.jpg

Apprently the UK gov sends this to all its tax-payers.
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Old 9th March 2018, 03:05 PM   #2226
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
The EU is mainly complaining about insufficient duty/tariffs - the VAT is a secondary issue.
No. The tariffs are the same for the whole EU and are most probably those fixed by the WTO agreements. The EU is no complaining about insufficient tariffs but about the lack of control measures at the borders by the HMRC.

Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
Once we've left the EU we'll get the benefit of cheaper clothes while our European neighbours will continue to hand over their hard-earned cash to Brussels.

And you wonder why the majority voted to leave.
And you will also benefit cheaper cars, shoes and of all kind of cheaper consumption goods, which will be manufactured abroad. So that the UK blue collars will loose their jobs and, at the very end, not even have enough money to buy cheap items imported with no customs duties...

Even Donald Trump is able to understand this would be idiotic...
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Old 9th March 2018, 03:08 PM   #2227
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
Found this via reddit:

https://i.redd.it/hr50hdl67lk01.jpg

Apprently the UK gov sends this to all its tax-payers.

I don't remember them sending me anything.
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Old 9th March 2018, 03:20 PM   #2228
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
I don't remember them sending me anything.
For the fourth year in succession, the government is sending 30 million households a clear and simple summary of how much income tax and national insurance they paid in the last financial year.
https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ur-tax-summary

Maybe you are not one of the 30 million?
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Old 9th March 2018, 04:07 PM   #2229
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I assume I am, but I don't remember getting one.

I could well have, but if they are not asking for more money, or giving me some back, I likely would have binned it without reading it. Like junk mail. I don't even open a lot of stuff that comes in the post.
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Old 10th March 2018, 02:18 AM   #2230
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Originally Posted by fagin View Post
I assume I am, but I don't remember getting one.

I could well have, but if they are not asking for more money, or giving me some back, I likely would have binned it without reading it. Like junk mail. I don't even open a lot of stuff that comes in the post.
I remember getting them every year. I think the last one came about a month ago. Although they're only really memorable to me as they send me off into a rant about what a waste of money they are.
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Old 10th March 2018, 04:35 AM   #2231
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It's strange how the same people that oppose Trump's tariffs on steel think that the EU's tariffs on imported goods are a wonderful thing.
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Old 10th March 2018, 04:38 AM   #2232
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Originally Posted by ceptimus View Post
It's strange how the same people that oppose Trump's tariffs on steel think that the EU's tariffs on imported goods are a wonderful thing.
Who are these people?
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Old 12th March 2018, 02:31 AM   #2233
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Originally Posted by GnaGnaMan View Post
Found this via reddit:

https://i.redd.it/hr50hdl67lk01.jpg

Apprently the UK gov sends this to all its tax-payers.
They're supposed, but while my wife gets them, I don't recall every having done so. For 2016/17 £59 of her £8,419 went to the EU budget - 0.7%.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 12th March 2018 at 02:34 AM.
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Old 15th March 2018, 12:39 AM   #2234
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Dutch only, I'm afraid.

Unilever has chosen to concentrate it's headquarters (now still in the UK and in the Netherlands) in Rotterdam, Netherlands.
Apparantly the choice for Rotterdam was made because the protection against hostile takeovers is better there.
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Old 15th March 2018, 01:44 AM   #2235
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
Dutch only, I'm afraid.

Unilever has chosen to concentrate it's headquarters (now still in the UK and in the Netherlands) in Rotterdam, Netherlands.
Apparantly the choice for Rotterdam was made because the protection against hostile takeovers is better there.
Well no shocks there then.

I had many a happy meeting at the Unilever offices in Weybridge. Every meeting room had a small freezer full of their individual serve frozen desserts (ice creams, choc ices, lollies and so on). It was a nice diversion in a hot and boring meeting.
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Old 15th March 2018, 02:27 AM   #2236
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Originally Posted by erwinl View Post
Dutch only, I'm afraid.

Unilever has chosen to concentrate it's headquarters (now still in the UK and in the Netherlands) in Rotterdam, Netherlands.
Apparantly the choice for Rotterdam was made because the protection against hostile takeovers is better there.
In the article you reference, CFO Pitkethly denies it had anything to do with that protection. He also denies it had anything to do with Brexit. And most curious, the article doesn't say a thing about the effect of the Dutch abolishment of dividend tax (but as Unilever remains being traded in Amsterdam, London and New York, I don't see how that could make a difference).
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Old 15th March 2018, 02:44 AM   #2237
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BBC version of the Unilever story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-43410155

In other news, David Davis wants a shorter transition

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43410455
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Old 15th March 2018, 03:01 AM   #2238
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
In other news, David Davis wants a shorter transition
Not quite how I would word it.
Davis is suggesting he would accept the EU's desire for a shorter transition.
The above makes it sound like it was his idea...and I'm not sure he has many of those, at least not ones that aren't completely barking.
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Old 15th March 2018, 04:15 AM   #2239
ddt
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What has become of May's announced series of speeches in which she would lay out her vision of Brexit? Are they still to come or have they quietly been shelved?
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Old 15th March 2018, 05:24 AM   #2240
Amazer
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Originally Posted by ddt View Post
What has become of May's announced series of speeches in which she would lay out her vision of Brexit? Are they still to come or have they quietly been shelved?
Bojo's speech
https://youtu.be/OW-aaCdmAgk

Mr. Fox https://youtu.be/-3NoCT4tB9o

DD
https://youtu.be/wRxX7jLxQZA

Mrs May
https://youtu.be/wj3qt0gyZdg

and finally Hammond
https://youtu.be/C-PgQTpPhS4

I might have missed one... not sure.
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