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Old 8th March 2018, 12:51 PM   #561
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
You've apparently got several in Canberra. I would also expect some of the "sporting goods" stores to have some information.

My point wasn't that it was "obvious" as such, but that finding out how to get one wouldn't be hard at all, assuming you qualified.
Yes - I didn't say that I couldn't find out how to get one. I said that I didn't know how to get one. Off the top of my head, as it were. I haven't happened to stroll past one.

Because I'm now curious, I looked it up in the Yellow Pages in a private browser window (I have a security clearance). There's one in Fyshwick, which is half an hour away, and which is where I'd also go if I wanted fireworks or prostitutes or industrial ducting. There's one in Queanbeyan, which technically isn't Canberra but is close enough - that'd be about forty minutes drive. There's one in Weston, which is near where I used to live but half an hour away from me now, and there's one that doesn't list its address. I'd assume with my knowledge of how things work in Canberra that it's probably in Mitchell, which would be the closest to me, but still twenty minutes away.

So there you go. They're the four places in Australia's capital city - a city of approximately 400,000 citizens - where I could get a gun.

Take any random city of 400,000 in America and count how many places there are that would sell guns. I guarantee it'll be more than four. Hell, a city of 400,000 in America would have more than four Walmarts.

What were we talking about again?
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Old 8th March 2018, 01:48 PM   #562
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Originally Posted by Tolls View Post
You've apparently got several in Canberra. I would also expect some of the "sporting goods" stores to have some information.

My point wasn't that it was "obvious" as such, but that finding out how to get one wouldn't be hard at all, assuming you qualified.
No, sporting goods stores will not have guns or ammo.

If you go to a gun shop off the street, you will need to apply through the police for a licence, this will entail a safety course that you can do at a gun shop. Then 6 weeks later when your licence is complete, you can look at getting a "Permit to Acquire" a firearm. Then when that permit is approved you can buy your gun. A permit to acquire PTA is required for each gun.

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Old 8th March 2018, 02:15 PM   #563
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I find it hilarious that arth knows more about getting a gun on the other side of the world, than he does about getting a gun in his own country.
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Old 8th March 2018, 02:58 PM   #564
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I find it hilarious that arth knows more about getting a gun on the other side of the world, than he does about getting a gun in his own country.
You clearly have a strange sense of humour.

I don't find it odd at all. Every time there is a mass shooting in the US, there is much discussion about the circumstances, including how the shooter acquired his guns. Since other countries don't have anything like the frequency of such shootings, there is not the same discussion. Since they also don't have the same levels of gun ownership, a much smaller percentage of the population will have first or even second hand knowledge about how to go about buying a gun in their own country.
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Old 8th March 2018, 03:37 PM   #565
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Hell, I live in Louisiana and play in multiple 8 and 9-ball pool leagues and have been offered, in the last 10 years alone, the opportunity to purchase a handgun in the parking lots of these billiard halls at least 4 times, that I can remember and, to be frank, don't find it so ridiculous, so it could be more. The US, and specifically the South, are a whole different world than anywhere else on this globe.
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Old 8th March 2018, 04:26 PM   #566
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
You clearly have a strange sense of humour.

I don't find it odd at all. Every time there is a mass shooting in the US, there is much discussion about the circumstances, including how the shooter acquired his guns. Since other countries don't have anything like the frequency of such shootings, there is not the same discussion. Since they also don't have the same levels of gun ownership, a much smaller percentage of the population will have first or even second hand knowledge about how to go about buying a gun in their own country.
This, I consider myself to have a better than average understanding of UK firearms law now, and it's purely down to being involved in these discussions. Most people in the UK who aren't actually interested in guns have no knowledge of our firearms laws (beyond 'they're really well controlled') and no need to know. It's a total non issue.
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Old 8th March 2018, 04:32 PM   #567
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
You clearly have a strange sense of humour.

I don't find it odd at all. Every time there is a mass shooting in the US, there is much discussion about the circumstances, including how the shooter acquired his guns. Since other countries don't have anything like the frequency of such shootings, there is not the same discussion. Since they also don't have the same levels of gun ownership, a much smaller percentage of the population will have first or even second hand knowledge about how to go about buying a gun in their own country.
Or even think about it. Of all the things I want or need, a gun is pretty much last on the list.
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Old 9th March 2018, 12:27 AM   #568
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I find it hilarious that arth knows more about getting a gun on the other side of the world, than he does about getting a gun in his own country.
You haven't noticed, then, that he's been on this forum for 13 years and has nearly 60,000 posts.....or that there have been one or two previous discussions of US gun ownership. Interesting.
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:30 AM   #569
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
I find it hilarious that arth knows more about getting a gun on the other side of the world, than he does about getting a gun in his own country.
Theer are more gunshops than Starbucks in the United States. I would very much doubt that is the case in the UK, notwithstanding the fact we probably have far less Starbucks per head than the US.

Last edited by Information Analyst; 9th March 2018 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:48 AM   #570
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Theer are more gunshops than Starbucks in the United States. I would very much doubt that is the case in the UK, notwithstanding the fact we probably have far less Starbucks per head than the US.
It might be close.

951 Starbucks stores in 2017.

Not sure where to get an exhaustive list of gun shops. There are 783 listed here, but some are air guns only.

ETA: For the US, 13,930 Starbucks stores in 2017. When I asked that question, google also helpfully popped up this "people also asked" question and answer:
Quote:
How many gun stores are in the United States?
There are a total of 129,817 gun dealers in the country, which include retail stores (51,438), "collectors" (61,562), pawn shops (7,356), and importers and manufacturers. Meanwhile, there are 143,849 gas stations. There are more than twice as many gun stores in America as McDonalds restaurants
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Last edited by zooterkin; 9th March 2018 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:55 AM   #571
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
You haven't noticed, then, that he's been on this forum for 13 years and has nearly 60,000 posts.....or that there have been one or two previous discussions of US gun ownership. Interesting.
Thanks for the info! I guess I didn't realize arth's longstanding interest in the subject. I appreciate you setting me straight.
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:58 AM   #572
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
It might be close.

951 Starbucks stores in 2017.

Not sure where to get an exhaustive list of gun shops. There are 783 listed here, but some are air guns only.

ETA: For the US, 13,930 Starbucks stores in 2017. When I asked that question, google also helpfully popped up this "people also asked" question and answer:
Quote:
How many gun stores are in the United States?
There are a total of 129,817 gun dealers in the country, which include retail stores (51,438), "collectors" (61,562), pawn shops (7,356), and importers and manufacturers. Meanwhile, there are 143,849 gas stations. There are more than twice as many gun stores in America as McDonalds restaurants.
Even just counting retail stores, that would give the US around 65 times the number in teh UK (even including the air weapons). Clearly the US has many orders of magnitude more gun shops per head than the UK does.
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:38 AM   #573
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Even just counting retail stores, that would give the US around 65 times the number in teh UK (even including the air weapons). Clearly the US has many orders of magnitude more gun shops per head than the UK does.
Sure, I'm not disagreeing with the general thrust of your point, only commenting on the specifics of whether there are more Starbucks or gun shops in the UK.
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:41 AM   #574
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I once owned a gun, briefly.
I inherited an old single-shot .22 rifle from my grandfather. I think it looked like this. I only fired it about twice, just to see if it works, it did, both times. I don't know much about guns. Never wanted one.

Thanks to the gun threads on this forum I (and I assume many other non-USA members) now know more about guns in the USA than I ever knew about guns in my own country.

Then the other day AJM8125 posted a pic of some scifi BFG in another thread, so I googled the pic.

Turns out it's this Mall-Ninja, an accessorized AR-15. I found the pic on this site.

Boy, what a site, what a gun, what a buyer's guide, WTF!
It's disturbingly funny in places.

"There’s a perfect AR-15 out there for you and we’ll help you find it."

"The AR-15 is one of the most popular sporting rifles for many reasons."

The number one reason is:

"Used by the US Military
The civilian AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle compared to the automatic/select fire capabilities of the military versions.
That means one press of the trigger is a single PEW! instead of a fully-automatic where a single press of the trigger will be a continuous stream of PEW! PEW! PEW! until you let go.
Admit it…there’s a little coolness factor in holding the symbol of America’s might.
"

Complete with a pic of a "Special Forces Beard Guy"


Turns out there is a hell of a lot to know about the AR-15, and this is the beginners guide.

The BIG question is, Build or Buy?

"It’s like legos for big kids"
"...there’s something very satisfying about building your own “franken-gun” or “M4-gery,” but we recommend doing it for a 2nd or 3rd AR-15. It’s not terribly difficult and you’ll get to choose every component in your gun."

So much to know just about barrels. They discuss chambering, length, twist rate, material, lining, testing, forging, contours and feed ramps.

I would never have guessed that "hands down" the best upgrade you can do to shoot more accurately is:
getting a better trigger


I now know more about the AR-15 than any other gun.

I just have to have one or two or three.
NOT!
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Last edited by Cheetah; 9th March 2018 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:11 AM   #575
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Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
I once owned a gun, briefly.
I inherited an old single-shot .22 rifle from my grandfather. I think it looked like this. I only fired it about twice, just to see if it works, it did, both times. I don't know much about guns. Never wanted one.

Thanks to the gun threads on this forum I (and I assume many other non-USA members) now know more about guns in the USA than I ever knew about guns in my own country.

Then the other day AJM8125 posted a pic of some scifi BFG in another thread, so I googled the pic.

Turns out it's this Mall-Ninja, an accessorized AR-15. I found the pic on this site.

Boy, what a site, what a gun, what a buyer's guide, WTF!
It's disturbingly funny in places.

"There’s a perfect AR-15 out there for you and we’ll help you find it."

"The AR-15 is one of the most popular sporting rifles for many reasons."

The number one reason is:

"Used by the US Military
The civilian AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle compared to the automatic/select fire capabilities of the military versions.
That means one press of the trigger is a single PEW! instead of a fully-automatic where a single press of the trigger will be a continuous stream of PEW! PEW! PEW! until you let go.
Admit it…there’s a little coolness factor in holding the symbol of America’s might.
"

Complete with a pic of a "Special Forces Beard Guy"


Turns out there is a hell of a lot to know about the AR-15, and this is the beginners guide.

The BIG question is, Build or Buy?

"It’s like legos for big kids"
"...there’s something very satisfying about building your own “franken-gun” or “M4-gery,” but we recommend doing it for a 2nd or 3rd AR-15. It’s not terribly difficult and you’ll get to choose every component in your gun."

So much to know just about barrels. They discuss chambering, length, twist rate, material, lining, testing, forging, contours and feed ramps.

I would never have guessed that "hands down" the best upgrade you can do to shoot more accurately is:
getting a better trigger


I now know more about the AR-15 than any other gun.

I just have to have one or two or three.
NOT!
Yeah, it's odd that some enthusiasts dismiss the rifle as being "nothing special," "not powerful," or whatever, whilst simultanously creaming over its lethality and "coolness."
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:23 AM   #576
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
Yeah, it's odd that some enthusiasts dismiss the rifle as being "nothing special," "not powerful," or whatever, whilst simultanously creaming over its lethality and "coolness."
Are you also confused about people who get enthusiastic about taking a commonplace automobile and customize it and tune it to be something special?
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Old 9th March 2018, 08:30 AM   #577
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Oops, after reading this thread I actually wanted to post that in the "I own an AR 15 thread"
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Last edited by Cheetah; 9th March 2018 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:22 AM   #578
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Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
I once owned a gun, briefly.
I inherited an old single-shot .22 rifle from my grandfather. I think it looked like this. I only fired it about twice, just to see if it works, it did, both times. I don't know much about guns. Never wanted one.

Thanks to the gun threads on this forum I (and I assume many other non-USA members) now know more about guns in the USA than I ever knew about guns in my own country.

Then the other day AJM8125 posted a pic of some scifi BFG in another thread, so I googled the pic.

Turns out it's this Mall-Ninja, an accessorized AR-15. I found the pic on this site.

Boy, what a site, what a gun, what a buyer's guide, WTF!
It's disturbingly funny in places.

"There’s a perfect AR-15 out there for you and we’ll help you find it."

"The AR-15 is one of the most popular sporting rifles for many reasons."

The number one reason is:

"Used by the US Military
The civilian AR-15 is a semi-automatic rifle compared to the automatic/select fire capabilities of the military versions.
That means one press of the trigger is a single PEW! instead of a fully-automatic where a single press of the trigger will be a continuous stream of PEW! PEW! PEW! until you let go.
Admit it…there’s a little coolness factor in holding the symbol of America’s might.
"

Complete with a pic of a "Special Forces Beard Guy"


Turns out there is a hell of a lot to know about the AR-15, and this is the beginners guide.

The BIG question is, Build or Buy?

"It’s like legos for big kids"
"...there’s something very satisfying about building your own “franken-gun” or “M4-gery,” but we recommend doing it for a 2nd or 3rd AR-15. It’s not terribly difficult and you’ll get to choose every component in your gun."

So much to know just about barrels. They discuss chambering, length, twist rate, material, lining, testing, forging, contours and feed ramps.

I would never have guessed that "hands down" the best upgrade you can do to shoot more accurately is:
getting a better trigger


I now know more about the AR-15 than any other gun.

I just have to have one or two or three.
NOT!
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Mall_ninja

The only other accessory that thing needs is a trailer hitch.

You guys do know stuff is nothing but flashlights and optics, right?
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:32 AM   #579
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I assumed it was flashlights and scopes and night-vision stuff and lasers and tractor beams.
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Old 9th March 2018, 09:35 AM   #580
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Are you also confused about people who get enthusiastic about taking a commonplace automobile and customize it and tune it to be something special?
No, because that's not comparable. Try having a sports car and simultaneously claiming it's "slow" whilst also saying how it goes like **** off a shovel.
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Old 9th March 2018, 01:27 PM   #581
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
No, because that's not comparable. Try having a sports car and simultaneously claiming it's "slow" whilst also saying how it goes like **** off a shovel.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Arguments from analogy always fail. I suppose I should just talk about the thing in its own terms.

Are you interested in better understanding the enthusiast's point of view? If so, I might be able to help. If you're just remarking on the apparent conundrum, and have no real interest in resolving it, that's fine too. Just let me know so I don't waste my time on a question you're not actually looking to answer.

Last edited by theprestige; 9th March 2018 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 9th March 2018, 06:50 PM   #582
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Old 12th March 2018, 02:23 AM   #583
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Are you interested in better understanding the enthusiast's point of view?
I understand the generic enthusiast's point of view, not least because I am one. My collection of 1930s film memorabilia, though, does not have the potential to harm anything other than my bank balance and my wife's tolerance. What I don't get are the conflicting signals from firearms enthusiasts about certain firearms.
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Old 12th March 2018, 05:56 PM   #584
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
I understand the generic enthusiast's point of view, not least because I am one. My collection of 1930s film memorabilia, though, does not have the potential to harm anything other than my bank balance and my wife's tolerance. What I don't get are the conflicting signals from firearms enthusiasts about certain firearms.
I think you understand less than you think. Or perhaps you understand more than you admit. I think that if we were to examine them, the apparent contradictions would vanish. But suit yourself. If you change your mind, you know where to find me.
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Old 12th March 2018, 10:57 PM   #585
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The thing is that it is not just a harmless hobby
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Old 13th March 2018, 02:24 PM   #586
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
The thing is that it is not just a harmless hobby
Of course it is a harmless hobby! Why would it not be?
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Old 13th March 2018, 02:42 PM   #587
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
The thing is that it is not just a harmless hobby
Originally Posted by Metullus View Post
Of course it is a harmless hobby! Why would it not be?
I don't deny that shooting can be a harmless hobby, or that most people who shoot are perfectly safe and responsible.

However semi-automatic rifles are also "dual use" and are ideal for massacres, which isn't the same as, say 1930's film memorabilia.
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Old 14th March 2018, 03:29 AM   #588
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Shotguns and bolt action rifles, with limited rounds before having to re-load, are also fine for mass shootings. Monkseaton (1 dead, 14 injured) and Cumbria (12 dead, 11 injured) proved that.

The difference is that with a shotgun or rifle, the shooter is best to keep on the move and in effect go hunting.

Combine a mass shooter who will hunt and who has weapons that can fire more often before the pause to reload, as happened at Hungerford and you get 16 dead and 15 injured.
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Old 15th March 2018, 07:02 AM   #589
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Originally Posted by jimbob View Post
However semi-automatic rifles are also "dual use" and are ideal for massacres, which isn't the same as, say 1930's film memorabilia.
"I've got an original programme from the 1936 premiere of Things to Come, and I'm not afraid to use it!" isn't much of a threat.
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Old 15th March 2018, 08:19 AM   #590
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Originally Posted by Information Analyst View Post
"I've got an original programme from the 1936 premiere of Things to Come, and I'm not afraid to use it!" isn't much of a threat.
Try this: The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a 1936 movie programme."
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Old 15th March 2018, 08:23 AM   #591
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Try this: The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a 1936 movie programme."
Meh! The bad guy is unlikely to have a gun. Or a movie programme. Especially not the same one.
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Old 15th March 2018, 08:26 AM   #592
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Try this: The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a 1936 movie programme."
Surely you meant 1933 - you can't beat a King Kong...
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Old 15th March 2018, 08:34 AM   #593
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Originally Posted by Aber View Post
Surely you meant 1933 - you can't beat a King Kong...
Nah! Kong can be subdued with the Gas of Peace, and then returned safely to his island.
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