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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 6th March 2018, 11:46 AM   #1481
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Nunberg has tiger blood. #winning
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Old 6th March 2018, 02:19 PM   #1482
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Originally Posted by Belz... View Post
It's being reported that this is becoming repetitive!

SB often brings attention here to snippets of news which seem to lack the coverage which others are receiving. Often they are ones which I might not have noticed otherwise. I thank him for that.

If it becomes tedious then I can easily scroll past them. It isn't like he is posting walls of text, and they certainly aren't offensive.

I see it as a public service of sorts.

Keep it up, Squeegee.
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Old 6th March 2018, 02:48 PM   #1483
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
SB often brings attention here to snippets of news which seem to lack the coverage which others are receiving. Of ten they are ones which I might not have noticed otherwise. I thank him for that.

If it becomes tedious then I can easily scroll past them. It isn't like he is posting walls of text, and they certainly aren't offensive.

I see it as a public service of sorts.

Keep it up, Squeegee.
Seconded
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link is 2015 data (2013 Data below):
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Old 6th March 2018, 02:49 PM   #1484
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Mueller investigating Michael Cohen
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Old 6th March 2018, 03:45 PM   #1485
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Nunberg so looks like he's high on cocaine. He can't sit still, he keeps wiping his nose with his hand, he's acting immaturely (last one could be his normal demeanor), now he just sniffed.

No one is reminding him a search shouldn't take 80 hours.
Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
That he had been drinking has also been suggested...
Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
It's not mutually exclusive.

I see a search warrant in his future.
Originally Posted by CapelDodger View Post
"80 hours" strikes me as oddly specific, but I don't quite know what to make of that. Coke-speak tends to be highly declarative (I've heard tell), so it fits that pattern.
Wow. That's a lot of wild speculation there.
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Old 6th March 2018, 03:52 PM   #1486
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Originally Posted by DevilsAdvocate View Post
Öand there it is.

In a post above, I referenced Nunbergís oddly repeated objection to complying with the subpoena because it asked for communications with Page and he said he never talked with Page. Obviously, if he never communicated with Page, he would simply have nothing to turn over and therefore no reason to object to the request.

The only reason to object to the request for communications with Page is if he did have such communications. He says Page colluded with the Russians. He says they want to get him to testify against Stone and that he wants to protect Stone.

The logical conclusion is that he has communications with or about Page that implicate Stone. This is on the level of, ďSure you can look for dead bodies in my basement, just donít look in that trap door. Why would you want to look in that trap door? Thereís nothing in that trap door. You can look in the basement, but only if you donít look in that trap door.Ē
Maybe not. Let's say, for argument's sake, that he didn't have any communications with Page. So he has nothing to turn over. What is the response likely to be? Do you think it's likely to be "Oh, well thanks for looking!"? I mean, he already said he didn't have any communication with Page, and that doesn't seem to have been believed.

I think it's a bit more likely that the response will be "We don't believe you, now turn over EVERYTHING". Now you might argue that only a guilty man would refuse to hand over everything... but you've got an investigative team that is obviously and clearly searching for any possible crime, and will take even the tiniest inkling of wrongdoing or grey area in order to take people down. This is exactly the sort of scenario where a rational person would plead the fifth - you can't be forced to incriminate yourself.

And one might also offer a counter-argument. If Clinton were innocent of wrongdoing, why did she go through and remove many emails on the claim that they were personal and none of the government's business? Does anyone have any way to verify that this was the case? One might argue that her delays and her deletion of emails is indicative of guilt, by the very same logic being employed here.
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Old 6th March 2018, 03:55 PM   #1487
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
SB often brings attention here to snippets of news which seem to lack the coverage which others are receiving. Often they are ones which I might not have noticed otherwise. I thank him for that.

If it becomes tedious then I can easily scroll past them. It isn't like he is posting walls of text, and they certainly aren't offensive.

I see it as a public service of sorts.

Keep it up, Squeegee.
Thirded.
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Old 6th March 2018, 03:57 PM   #1488
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
SB often brings attention here to snippets of news which seem to lack the coverage which others are receiving. Often they are ones which I might not have noticed otherwise. I thank him for that.

If it becomes tedious then I can easily scroll past them. It isn't like he is posting walls of text, and they certainly aren't offensive.

I see it as a public service of sorts.

Keep it up, Squeegee.
Forthed
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Old 6th March 2018, 04:06 PM   #1489
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Fifthed.
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Old 6th March 2018, 04:18 PM   #1490
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Fifthed.
I'll drink to that.

Seems to me if Nunberg is having trouble finding the time to search for his emails, Mueller should be able to find him a nice quite room with bars on the window in which he can work on it.
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Old 6th March 2018, 04:25 PM   #1491
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Fox News Bret Baer:

Trey Gowdy is back to his old self. They want to investigate the FBI, says the IG can't interview people no longer working, convinced the FBI starting with Comey, investigated a private citizen based on partisan information, calls the "Schiff memo" filled with lies ...

Goodlatte, Republican Congressman, goes on with everything in the Nunes memo, ignoring completely the Democratic rebuttal.


All this stuff has been debunked, not the least of which is "so what" even if true, a biased or partisan source does not disqualify evidence. So are they in on the ruse, or simply susceptible to the alt-reality?
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Old 6th March 2018, 04:39 PM   #1492
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Ex-Trump aide Sam Nunberg changes tune, says he will cooperate with Mueller probe

I'm guessing he had a small stress-induced breakdown.
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Old 6th March 2018, 04:46 PM   #1493
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Originally Posted by Upchurch View Post
Ex-Trump aide Sam Nunberg changes tune, says he will cooperate with Mueller probe

I'm guessing he had a small stress-induced breakdown.
I would have said alcohol induced temper tantrum upon receipt of the subpoena.
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Old 6th March 2018, 04:49 PM   #1494
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
I would have said alcohol induced temper tantrum upon receipt of the subpoena.
Why not both? Perhaps I'm being generous.
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Old 6th March 2018, 05:15 PM   #1495
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Wow. That's a lot of wild speculation there.
We have Nunberg on TV behaving in a truly bizarre, seemingly intoxicated manner. (He's an attorney by the way.) And then we have a direct observation from a reliable reporter, Erin Burnett, who tells Nunberg face-to-face that he smells of alcohol.

The notion that Nunberg was intoxicated isn't wild speculation.
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Old 6th March 2018, 06:09 PM   #1496
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post

Well, if he's innocent he should have nothing to hide, why not just turn them all over?
As an innocent person I have everything to hide.
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Old 6th March 2018, 06:13 PM   #1497
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Wow. That's a lot of wild speculation there.

"Speculation"? Perhaps.

"Wild"? Not at all.
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Old 6th March 2018, 06:39 PM   #1498
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Fox News Bret Baer:

Trey Gowdy is back to his old self. They want to investigate the FBI, says the IG can't interview people no longer working, convinced the FBI starting with Comey, investigated a private citizen based on partisan information, calls the "Schiff memo" filled with lies ...
Out of interest, did he mention Clinton much?

Quote:
Goodlatte, Republican Congressman, goes on with everything in the Nunes memo, ignoring completely the Democratic rebuttal.


All this stuff has been debunked, not the least of which is "so what" even if true, a biased or partisan source does not disqualify evidence. So are they in on the ruse, or simply susceptible to the alt-reality?
One does wonder what they hope to achieve. Mueller and his team aren't going to be fazed in the slighest, and nor will the FBI.
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Old 6th March 2018, 06:41 PM   #1499
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
As an innocent person I have everything to hide.
Some might wish you hid more. Not to say completely.
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Old 7th March 2018, 02:27 AM   #1500
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It's being reported that Mueller has questioned adviser to the UAE George Nader, who has several ties to the Trump campaign
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Old 7th March 2018, 02:48 AM   #1501
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Seth Abramson thread on why the questioning of Nader may still concern Trump's ties to Russia
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Old 7th March 2018, 04:49 AM   #1502
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Maybe not. Let's say, for argument's sake, that he didn't have any communications with Page. So he has nothing to turn over. What is the response likely to be? Do you think it's likely to be "Oh, well thanks for looking!"? I mean, he already said he didn't have any communication with Page, and that doesn't seem to have been believed.
Yes, that would be it. If he told the FBI he didnít have any communications with Page, the purpose of the subpoena is to have him put that on record and restate that fact under oath to the grand jury so that it becomes part of the record of evidence.

We donít know why Mueller is asking for the emails with or about Page. Maybe Page has told him Nunberg has emails exonerating him and Mueller doesnít believe him so he wants Nunberg on record saying he has no such emails. Or maybe Meuller already has evidence that Nunberg was in contact with Page and he wants those records or to see if Nunberg will try to cover it up. OrÖit could be lots of things.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
I think it's a bit more likely that the response will be "We don't believe you, now turn over EVERYTHING".
If a person could avoid complying with a subpoena simply because they could speculate that they might not be believed, then nobody would be required to comply with a subpoena.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Now you might argue that only a guilty man would refuse to hand over everything... but you've got an investigative team that is obviously and clearly searching for any possible crime, and will take even the tiniest inkling of wrongdoing or grey area in order to take people down.
They arenít asking for everything. The subpoena comes from the court. It can be challenged with the court if it is believed it is for an improper purpose or out of scope of the investigation.

Also note that the subpoena says that if there are emails that meet the requirements that are of a personal nature and not relevant to the investigation, he does not need to turn over those emails but would need to provide general information about those emails and an explanation of why they arenít being turned over.

Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
This is exactly the sort of scenario where a rational person would plead the fifth - you can't be forced to incriminate yourself.
Nunberg says he was granted immunity in exchange for his cooperation. With immunity, he canít plead the Fifth.
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Old 7th March 2018, 05:31 AM   #1503
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
SB often brings attention here to snippets of news which seem to lack the coverage which others are receiving. Often they are ones which I might not have noticed otherwise. I thank him for that.

If it becomes tedious then I can easily scroll past them. It isn't like he is posting walls of text, and they certainly aren't offensive.

I see it as a public service of sorts.

Keep it up, Squeegee.
Oh, absolutely. I'm making fun of the form, not the content.
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Old 7th March 2018, 11:15 AM   #1504
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
... Now you might argue that only a guilty man would refuse to hand over everything... but you've got an investigative team that is obviously and clearly searching for any possible crime, and will take even the tiniest inkling of wrongdoing or grey area in order to take people down. This is exactly the sort of scenario where a rational person would plead the fifth - you can't be forced to incriminate yourself. ...
Perhaps I am reading you wrong, apologies then ... but are you saying you think a subpoena to hand over already existing documents can be validly defied citing the fifth? I believe that would be a misinterpretation of the fifth. An archive of documents that already exists, independent of the state's investigation, does not constitute the sort of speech a witness makes that the fifth is talking about in the phrase:
"...nor shall [any person] be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..."
I believe to be a witness requires formulating new speech in response to questions asked in a criminal case, not possessing old documents assembled before there even was a criminal case, or before that person was involved in that criminal case.
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Old 8th March 2018, 02:46 AM   #1505
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Mueller has reportedly gathered evidence that the Seychelles meeting Erik Prince testified under oath he had not planned to meet a Russian at was, in fact, about setting up a back-channel with Russia
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Old 8th March 2018, 02:54 AM   #1506
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
Betsy DeVoss's brother has been a bad boy...
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Old 8th March 2018, 11:57 AM   #1507
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Originally Posted by The Great Zaganza View Post
Betsy DeVoss's brother has been a bad boy...
....for a long time. Including employing murderers in Iraq.
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Old 8th March 2018, 04:58 PM   #1508
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
"Speculation"? Perhaps.

"Wild"? Not at all.


OMG, he seems agitated and he rubbed his nose some... he... he must be on cocaine!

Nope, not wild at all. It's a perfectly normal thing to assume without any evidence. It's just run-of-the-mill boring average speculation to immediately just to suggestions of illicit drug usage. Makes perfect sense.
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Old 8th March 2018, 05:02 PM   #1509
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Originally Posted by Oystein View Post
Perhaps I am reading you wrong, apologies then ... but are you saying you think a subpoena to hand over already existing documents can be validly defied citing the fifth? I believe that would be a misinterpretation of the fifth. An archive of documents that already exists, independent of the state's investigation, does not constitute the sort of speech a witness makes that the fifth is talking about in the phrase:
"...nor shall [any person] be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself..."
I believe to be a witness requires formulating new speech in response to questions asked in a criminal case, not possessing old documents assembled before there even was a criminal case, or before that person was involved in that criminal case.
That ended up being the effect of my statement, but it wasn't the intent. My intent is more to challenge the assumption of guilt for someone who doesn't wish to turn over personal information to an investigation. It's the presumption of "oh, well, he would only refuse to comply if he has something to hide, therefore he must be guilty!" I intended it as a comparison to why a person who is not guilty still might very reasonably plead the fifth in other sorts of circumstances.
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Old 8th March 2018, 05:13 PM   #1510
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
That ended up being the effect of my statement, but it wasn't the intent. My intent is more to challenge the assumption of guilt for someone who doesn't wish to turn over personal information to an investigation. It's the presumption of "oh, well, he would only refuse to comply if he has something to hide, therefore he must be guilty!" I intended it as a comparison to why a person who is not guilty still might very reasonably plead the fifth in other sorts of circumstances.
There aren't very many reasons not to comply in this case. It's pretty obvious that Mueller is not messing around, he came to play ball. Didn't he do 3 or more shows in that one day? Looking at the picture as a whole, it looks like a guy fairly desperate, but that's just me.
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Old 8th March 2018, 05:14 PM   #1511
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post


OMG, he seems agitated and he rubbed his nose some... he... he must be on cocaine!

Nope, not wild at all. It's a perfectly normal thing to assume without any evidence. It's just run-of-the-mill boring average speculation to immediately just to suggestions of illicit drug usage. Makes perfect sense.
Your answer suggests you didn't understand Quad's answer.

Speculation but not based on nothing.

Perhaps you've never seen someone high on cocaine but they can't sit still. And the sniffing was corroborating evidence.

Then there were reports to news agency he was drunk and the reporter said she smelled the alcohol.

Speculation based on some evidence. Not wild speculation.
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Old 8th March 2018, 05:14 PM   #1512
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Post 1509: You mean like this?

Quote:
As a presidential candidate last year, Donald Trump suggested that innocent people don’t plead the Fifth Amendment.

“The mob takes the Fifth Amendment. If you’re innocent why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?” Trump said at a campaign rally in Iowa in September, a couple of weeks after IT specialists who worked for Hillary Clinton invoked their Fifth Amendment rights during testimony before Congress.
source
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Old 8th March 2018, 05:16 PM   #1513
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Originally Posted by plague311 View Post
There aren't very many reasons not to comply in this case. It's pretty obvious that Mueller is not messing around, he came to play ball. Didn't he do 3 or more shows in that one day? Looking at the picture as a whole, it looks like a guy fairly desperate, but that's just me.
He's also a disciple of Roger Stone so you can never discount rat****ing.
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Old 8th March 2018, 08:23 PM   #1514
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post


OMG, he seems agitated and he rubbed his nose some... he... he must be on cocaine!

Nope, not wild at all. It's a perfectly normal thing to assume without any evidence. It's just run-of-the-mill boring average speculation to immediately just to suggestions of illicit drug usage. Makes perfect sense.

A highly respected professional interviewer facing him from a couple of feet away said he smelled of alcohol.

There may be some speculation there, but it is hardly "wild".
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Old 9th March 2018, 01:25 PM   #1515
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Your answer suggests you didn't understand Quad's answer.

Speculation but not based on nothing.

Perhaps you've never seen someone high on cocaine but they can't sit still. And the sniffing was corroborating evidence.

Then there were reports to news agency he was drunk and the reporter said she smelled the alcohol.

Speculation based on some evidence. Not wild speculation.
People who are nervous also can't sit still. Also, people who have ADHD. And people with colds or allergies frequently sniff. It's corroborating evidence of nothing but a tendency to present whatever random speculation one comes up with as if it were fact, and to respond in a defensive fashion to anyone who identifies your wild speculation as exactly that - wild speculation.

So... Yeah... Are you aware that cocaine and alcohol cause a complete different set of observable symptoms?
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Old 9th March 2018, 01:26 PM   #1516
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
A highly respected professional interviewer facing him from a couple of feet away said he smelled of alcohol.

There may be some speculation there, but it is hardly "wild".
Alcohol, I might grant - based on the observation of people present. But the jump to cocaine because he fidgeted and sniffed is pretty wild.
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Old 9th March 2018, 02:03 PM   #1517
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Originally Posted by Emily's Cat View Post
Alcohol, I might grant - based on the observation of people present. But the jump to cocaine because he fidgeted and sniffed is pretty wild.
Sure, cocaine is very speculative. No better than when Trump sniffled in debates and so was on drugs, or when Hillary was dying due to a pneumonia induced stumble.
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Old 10th March 2018, 01:27 AM   #1518
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https://twitter.com/rebeccaballhaus/...02530880016384

Quote:
NEWS: Trump’s legal team may tell Mueller he can interview the president if, among other considerations, he agrees to a timeline for ending the Trump-related portion of the Russia probe—for example, 60 days from the date of the interview. W/@PeterWSJ
Yeah, this'll happen.
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Old 10th March 2018, 06:43 AM   #1519
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post

That's pretty desperate...
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Old 10th March 2018, 08:46 AM   #1520
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
That's pretty desperate...


The sign of a man with nothing to hide, nosireee!
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