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Old 14th September 2016, 10:13 PM   #41
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Right, but I don't believe for a second that any kind of primary radar was in use in the Pacific in 1937, and especially not tracking Earhart & Noonan's Electra.

When the articles say the aircraft "disappeared off radar", they will almost certainly be talking about CRDF, HFDF or some other variant of that system.
Totally agree.
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Old 15th September 2016, 01:22 AM   #42
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Or, the writers don't know about the lack of radar.
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Old 15th September 2016, 09:48 AM   #43
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Now The Washington Post has a story about Gillespie and his theory.

Quote:
Earhart was declared dead after the U.S. government concluded that she crashed somewhere in the Pacific, her plane sinking to the seabed as she tried to become the first woman to circle the globe.

But an alternate theory of what became of Earhart and her navigator, Fred Noonan, has recently resurfaced in the news...

Adding to the body of evidence, Gillespie said, the radio in Earhart's plane could not work if it had been in the water as suspected; yet she sent out radio signals for nearly a week after apparently crashing.

"Earhart made a relatively safe landing at Gardner Island and sent radio distress calls for six days," ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-is-its-theory
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Old 15th September 2016, 01:36 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Now The Washington Post has a story about Gillespie and his theory.

"Earhart made a relatively safe landing at Gardner Island and sent radio distress calls for six days," ...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...-is-its-theory
She shouldn't have rested on the seventh day...
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Old 16th September 2016, 12:13 AM   #45
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Now this is interesting news but need more evidence
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Old 30th September 2016, 10:13 PM   #46
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One of the recent pieces of "evidence" publicized by Tighar was analyzed by Glickman, the same yahoo who did the bogus NASI analysis of the Patterson Gimlin film. Gillespie has nothing. No new evidence. His old evidence has been debunked. People lived on that island. Is it any wonder that trash is found there? Earharts plane rests on the bottom of the ocean apparently east of Gardner Island, as most of the ocean floor on the west side has been scanned. It was running out of gas when it passed the island. Could never have gotten as far south as Gillespie says. It will be found some day. But not by Gillespie.
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Old 4th October 2016, 06:32 AM   #47
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TIGHAR has this uncanny ability to find just enough circumstantial and suggestive "evidence" to keep the money coming in, but nothing ever definitive.
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Old 10th July 2017, 01:09 AM   #48
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Not sure if this has been posted yet (searched and found nothing)

http://www.history.com/specials/amel...-lost-evidence

Brief resume for non link clickers

Earhart and Noonan landed on Marshall Islands, were photographed on a wharf at Jaluit Island and subsequently were taken prisoner by the Japanese and died in a Japanese Prison at Saipan in the Northern Marianas

Looks like a load of cobblers to me.

The first problem I have with it is they simply did not have enough fuel on board to reach the Marshall Islands, by a large margin.

The second problem I have is that the Marshall Islands are northwest of Howland Island. That is the opposite direction from the one they reported heading in theri last received transmission... "on the line of position 157-337" which would indicate a SSE heading

I believe that Earhart's Electra ran out of fuel and crashed into the ocean a few hundred miles south east of Howland Island and they both died. However, in the unlikely event that they did survive, then IMO the most likely scenario is the one TIGHAR is chasing, that they ditched near Gardner Island (now called Nikumaroro) and survived on the island as castaways for an unspecified period before dying of starvation/thirst/exposure or from injuries.
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Old 10th July 2017, 01:21 AM   #49
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I saw an article on that on the BBC website.

As far as I could tell, it all seemed to be based on one photograph which, frankly, could have shown anything.
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Old 10th July 2017, 01:59 AM   #50
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But looks like the 'History' channel managed to get a programme out of one fuzzy picture.

And are marketing it.
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Old 10th July 2017, 06:25 AM   #51
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My reaction to this story in the news (again) was:

Wow. Astounding photographic evidence that at least one other person in the world had that same hairstyle? How exciting.
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Old 10th July 2017, 11:30 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Not sure if this has been posted yet (searched and found nothing)

http://www.history.com/specials/amel...-lost-evidence

Brief resume for non link clickers

Earhart and Noonan landed on Marshall Islands, were photographed on a wharf at Jaluit Island and subsequently were taken prisoner by the Japanese and died in a Japanese Prison at Saipan in the Northern Marianas

Looks like a load of cobblers to me.

The first problem I have with it is they simply did not have enough fuel on board to reach the Marshall Islands, by a large margin.

The second problem I have is that the Marshall Islands are northwest of Howland Island. That is the opposite direction from the one they reported heading in theri last received transmission... "on the line of position 157-337" which would indicate a SSE heading
I watched the show last night. The argument is that when she claimed to be running low on fuel, she actually had a lot left, because her plan was that if they couldn't find the target, she was going to turn back west and find something more obvious. The wind was stronger than anticipated, so she got blown farther north than expected, and then turned back west and found the Marshall Islands.

But yes, it is all predicated on this picture that is claimed to be her. The person in it is facing away from the camera, so you can't see a face or much of anything

The big problem I saw is that in the picture, the person is not being held captured or anything, and is squatting alone. Doesn't sound like someone captured by the Japanese and arrested for espionage. Just looks like a lot of people standing around the dock.

The one thing we learned is that there is a spot just northeast of an old cemetery in Saipan where her remains definitely are not.

It just rehashed a bunch of old stories and rumors, and treated them as true (with a former FBI guy playing the role of Deanna Troi - he could have just as well had said, "He' s telling the truth - or at least he thinks he is" for pretty much every person they interviewed), all based on that one picture.
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Old 10th July 2017, 01:50 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
The argument is that when she claimed to be running low on fuel, she actually had a lot left, because her plan was that if they couldn't find the target, she was going to turn back west and find something more obvious. The wind was stronger than anticipated, so she got blown farther north than expected, and then turned back west and found the Marshall Islands.
I have two problems with this

1. Fred Noonan always flew with both a bubble octant (an aviator's navigation instrument for taking star shots) and a marinerís sextant as a backup in case the bubble octant got damaged. They both knew that this leg was going to be very difficult navigationally. Its unthinkable that they would leave such a vital navigation instrument behind to save weight when they intended to fly overnight by dead reckoning looking for a tiny sliver of land on a vast ocean while flying into the early morning sun. The weather was clear, and Noonan would have been taking frequent star shots to confirm they were on course. He would have noticed if they were drifting off course

2. AIUI, the Electra was equipped with a Sperry Air Mileage Unit, which, if they were on course, would have given them a fair idea when they were arriving in the vicinity of Howland Island. If they were off course to the north, the comparison between their heading and the bearing of sunrise (too far south) would have sent up a big red flag, and they would have known that they were too far north and had a fair idea where they were... NNW of Howland Island,. Any sensible navigator (and Noonan was an excellent one by all accounts) he would have turned SSE, not west!
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Old 10th July 2017, 02:50 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Worm View Post
I saw an article on that on the BBC website.

As far as I could tell, it all seemed to be based on one photograph which, frankly, could have shown anything.
Based on the photo and long standing stories about Earhart having ended up in the Marshall Is.
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Old 11th July 2017, 06:04 AM   #55
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They had a fellow commenting on this on NPR a few days ago who advised that the photograph in question has been accurately dated to a period before the flight. It had been in BBC archives.
He had a whole list of "debunking" points. Transcript:
http://www.npr.org/2017/07/06/535823...o-offers-clues
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Old 11th July 2017, 08:00 AM   #56
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http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...-earhart-photo
Quote:
A Japanese military history buff has found library records showing a photo supposedly depicting Amelia Earhart survived a crash landing in 1937 was actually published two years before the famous aviator vanished.
That's right the supposed photo was published in a book in 1935, two years before Earhart's flight. On top of that, a number of years ago a Japanese researcher interviewed the last surviving crew member of the boat in the picture and the crew member was very clear that they did not find Earhart or her plane.

The fake History Channel loves to produce the worst anti-historical shows possible. Watch them for their fake reality entertainment shows, go elsewhere for history programming.
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Old 11th July 2017, 08:10 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Bikewer View Post
They had a fellow commenting on this on NPR a few days ago who advised that the photograph in question has been accurately dated to a period before the flight.
So what you are saying is that the photo is evidence that Amelia Earhart could time travel.
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Old 11th July 2017, 12:07 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...-earhart-photo


That's right the supposed photo was published in a book in 1935, two years before Earhart's flight. On top of that, a number of years ago a Japanese researcher interviewed the last surviving crew member of the boat in the picture and the crew member was very clear that they did not find Earhart or her plane.

The fake History Channel loves to produce the worst anti-historical shows possible. Watch them for their fake reality entertainment shows, go elsewhere for history programming.
The next History Channel special: "Amelia Earhardt: Nevermind."
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Old 11th July 2017, 01:37 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-w...-earhart-photo


That's right the supposed photo was published in a book in 1935, two years before Earhart's flight. On top of that, a number of years ago a Japanese researcher interviewed the last surviving crew member of the boat in the picture and the crew member was very clear that they did not find Earhart or her plane.

The fake History Channel loves to produce the worst anti-historical shows possible. Watch them for their fake reality entertainment shows, go elsewhere for history programming.
I wouldn't agree with that 100%. They seem to get it right when they temporarily change their name to "The Hitler Channel" (Hunting Hitler excepted - no Godwinization intended). But yeah, Ancient Aliens, America Unearthed etc, all utter fake science claptrap.
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Old 11th July 2017, 05:12 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
I wouldn't agree with that 100%. They seem to get it right when they temporarily change their name to "The Hitler Channel" (Hunting Hitler excepted - no Godwinization intended). But yeah, Ancient Aliens, America Unearthed etc, all utter fake science claptrap.

I remember that. It was all Hitler, all the time.
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Old 11th July 2017, 06:02 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by John Jones View Post
I remember that. It was all Hitler, all the time.
In my household we used to call it The Hitler Channel. Ah the good ol' days
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Old 11th July 2017, 06:09 PM   #62
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The History Channel is so bad, in fact, that it's kind of surprising they aren't part of Discovery Communications, where mermaids are real and people live in the Alaskan Bush 1/2 mile from the Burger King.

Then again, the refutation is being provided by NatGeo, now owned by Rupert Murdoch and sponsoring competing "research" by TIGHAR.
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Old 11th July 2017, 08:20 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
The History Channel is so bad, in fact, that it's kind of surprising they aren't part of Discovery Communications, where mermaids are real and people live in the Alaskan Bush 1/2 mile from the Burger King.

Then again, the refutation is being provided by NatGeo, now owned by Rupert Murdoch and sponsoring competing "research" by TIGHAR.

I am a regular reader of Jason Colavito's excellent blog

http://www.jasoncolavito.com/blog

He regularly slams reviews History Channel programming, and I get the feeling he has little more than disdain for their standards. He touches on the Earhart story in his review of the latest load of bollocks offerings from "Ancient Aliens"

Review of Ancient Aliens S12E09 "The Majestic Twelve"

7/7/2017

​Almost anyone who has an interest in ufology knows of the Majestic-12 documents, a cache of alleged U.S. government documents outlining the governmentís secret involvement with space aliens in the middle twentieth century. The first of these documents began circulating in 1984, with a second set of papers released in 1994, and all but diehard true believers understand that they are fake. That did not stop Ancient Aliens from devoting an entire hour to them. Iím not sure whether it is an improvement that the show is now being honest about its willingness to accept any lie that can be spun into entertainment, or whether it should be considered a further diminution of the History Channel brand. Considering History is currently promoting a blurry undated photograph showing either a teenage boy or a mannish woman as alleged proof of Amelia Earhartís fate, Iím not sure they can really fall any further.
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Old 11th July 2017, 10:09 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by paulhutch View Post
The fake History Channel loves to produce the worst anti-historical shows possible. Watch them for their fake reality entertainment shows, go elsewhere for history programming.
Truly Fake News (or fake history to be precise).

Everything about that photo and the theory they made to go with it was ridiculous. Even if the date hadn't been wrong, why were they just casually hanging out there when the whole world is looking for them? Why would the Japanese take them prisoner and keep that a secret (this is several years before the war)? And if the Japanese had taken them prisoner, then what were they doing on that dock? Who was guarding them? Nothing about it makes sense. (not to mention that it's impossible to identify who those people were from the blurry image)



ETA:
If they had any interest at all in historical accuracy and their own credibility whoever presented this as "evidence" should have been laughed off as a kook, not given 2 hours of air time.
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Old 12th July 2017, 07:14 AM   #65
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Another interesting (or maybe worthless) aspect of this show was how they tried to use a "former FBI" something-or-other (investigator or whatever) to lend credibility.

As I mentioned in my summary the other day, his main role was basically Deana Troi, and he effectively would say, "He's telling the truth - or at least he thinks he is" after every interview. "Using all his interrogation experience from his days in the FBI, he is an expert at body language cues." or something like that. Geez, he should have used a lie detector. It would have been as useful.

But despite all that, he failed in step 1, to confirm that the photograph was taken at the actual time they claim it was. It was basically his "Geraldo Rivera Al Capone's Vault" moment.

So this great, experienced FBI guy built a case on a massive house of cards, which collapsed as the show was airing. So much for that credibility. If I were a current or former FBI guy, I'd be saying, "Dude, shut up! You look like an imbecile."
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Old 12th July 2017, 11:13 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by pgwenthold View Post
Another interesting (or maybe worthless) aspect of this show was how they tried to use a "former FBI" something-or-other (investigator or whatever) to lend credibility.

As I mentioned in my summary the other day, his main role was basically Deana Troi, and he effectively would say, "He's telling the truth - or at least he thinks he is" after every interview. "Using all his interrogation experience from his days in the FBI, he is an expert at body language cues." or something like that. Geez, he should have used a lie detector. It would have been as useful.

But despite all that, he failed in step 1, to confirm that the photograph was taken at the actual time they claim it was. It was basically his "Geraldo Rivera Al Capone's Vault" moment.

So this great, experienced FBI guy built a case on a massive house of cards, which collapsed as the show was airing. So much for that credibility. If I were a current or former FBI guy, I'd be saying, "Dude, shut up! You look like an imbecile."
They did spend time saying the photo was real and of the time period. They did get that right. The photo was real and of the time period just not the exact time period they needed.

The wishful thinking that goes into this is kind of sad.
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Old 12th July 2017, 01:55 PM   #67
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http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/12/asia/a...pan/index.html

Quote:
Amelia Earhart mystery: Photo appears taken 2 years before pilot vanished
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Old 12th July 2017, 05:47 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Spindrift View Post
They did spend time saying the photo was real and of the time period. They did get that right. The photo was real and of the time period just not the exact time period they needed.

The wishful thinking that goes into this is kind of sad.
Yeah, it's a "real" photograph. That means little, of course, because the question is "what is it a photograph of?"

And time period? Sure, it's probably 35 - 40 era. But that's not good enough. They needed to know that it was 37 or later.

As I said, that is a major house of cards on which to build your case. When that whole thing falls, there goes the rest of the story.
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Old 12th July 2017, 11:30 PM   #69
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Fractal wrongness. Even if the photo was taken at the right time, too many other things just don't make any sense.

Quote:
The History Channel said in a statement Tuesday its investigators were exploring the latest development, and the channel would be "transparent in our findings."
"Ultimately, historical accuracy is most important to us and our viewers," it said on Twitter.
I don't think this site has enough laughing dogs for that howler.
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Old 13th July 2017, 03:09 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
So what you are saying is that the photo is evidence that Amelia Earhart could time travel.
Just having finished reading the Time Patrol/ Nancy Laplante series of novels (in which Amelia does indeed travel in time, regularly)

Maybe they arent fiction after all, they could be `hidden' documentaries, thus proving that the photo is real!!!!

We are through the looking glass people!!!





(hey it makes more sense than most history channel documentaries do anyway)
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Old 8th March 2018, 05:36 PM   #71
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Island bones 'likely' belonged to famed pilot

Originally Posted by BBC News
Bones discovered on a Pacific island in 1940 are "likely" to be those of famed pilot Amelia Earhart, according to a US peer reviewed science journal.

Earhart, her plane, and her navigator vanished without a trace in 1937 over the Pacific Ocean. Many theories have sought to explain her disappearance.

But a new study published in Forensic Anthropology claims these bones prove she died as an island castaway.

The report claims they are a 99% match, despite an earlier conclusion.

The study, titled Amelia Earhart and the Nikumaroro Bones, was first published by the University of Florida and conducted by Professor Richard Jantz from the University of Tennessee.

It disputes that the remains found on the eastern Pacific island of Nikumaroro - about 1,800 miles (2,900km) southwest of Hawaii - belonged to a man, as a researcher had determined in 1941...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43323944
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Old 8th March 2018, 07:10 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Well, there was the one where Captain Janeway punishes 7 of 9 with a spanking for her insubordination.

Or maybe that was a dream I had.
If you remember how it ended, you might figure that out!!!
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Old 8th March 2018, 07:13 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
Island bones 'likely' belonged to famed pilot



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-43323944
Doubt any decent skeletal expert even then could have missed interpreting the bones as male if they really were female by then, Unless the "expert" was a fraud.
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Old 8th March 2018, 07:21 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Doubt any decent skeletal expert even then could have missed interpreting the bones as male if they really were female by then, Unless the "expert" was a fraud.
Why propose fraud when this is given as an explanation?...

Quote:
But Dr Jantz argues that because forensic osteology - the study of bones - was still in its early stages, Dr Hoodless probably reached a wrong conclusion.

"Forensic anthropology was not well developed in the early 20th century," the paper states.
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Old 8th March 2018, 07:40 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Doubt any decent skeletal expert even then could have missed interpreting the bones as male if they really were female by then, Unless the "expert" was a fraud.
They could with some confirmation bias and the absence of a pelvic bone.

It sounds like a lot of evidence until we find out the bones were all lost. Then it reminds me of that photograph upthread which was supposed to be Earhart on a dock where she would be in Chinese custody.

I await other experts weighing in, not ruling this new hypothesis out.
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Old 8th March 2018, 07:47 PM   #76
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There are predators/scavengers on those islands, namely crabs, I think, that may have eaten her remains.
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Old 8th March 2018, 09:24 PM   #77
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Personally I find that David Billings site has the most convincing evidence to date, including a ww2 map by an Australian army patrol that found a crashed aircraft, and the notations on the edge of it that actually list the airframe number and engine horsepower of the engines fitted to her aircraft, he has been searching to try and find the wreck, so far without success, but that army map to me is the most convincing evidence (plus he actually interviewed 2 of the then surving members of the patrol before they passed on)
Personally I think they did find her wreck, and hope David finds it again

Main site

The tag and the army map

PPrune thread 2009 to current (12 pages)
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Old 9th March 2018, 02:22 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by fuelair View Post
Doubt any decent skeletal expert even then could have missed interpreting the bones as male if they really were female by then, Unless the "expert" was a fraud.
Or, the expert wanted to attached their name and reputation to the mystery. I seem to recall the bones in question are now missing?

Originally Posted by Dabop View Post
Personally I find that David Billings site has the most convincing evidence to date, including a ww2 map by an Australian army patrol that found a crashed aircraft, and the notations on the edge of it that actually list the airframe number and engine horsepower of the engines fitted to her aircraft, he has been searching to try and find the wreck, so far without success, but that army map to me is the most convincing evidence (plus he actually interviewed 2 of the then surving members of the patrol before they passed on)
Personally I think they did find her wreck, and hope David finds it again
I'm curious about the apparent lack of urgency trying to bring closure. No money in it for salvage operators? The tragedy of a famed aviatrix pioneer and her partner, disappeared in a remote tropic location, playing out through the decades?
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Old 9th March 2018, 05:17 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by dellarte View Post
Or, the expert wanted to attached their name and reputation to the mystery. I seem to recall the bones in question are now missing?



I'm curious about the apparent lack of urgency trying to bring closure. No money in it for salvage operators? The tragedy of a famed aviatrix pioneer and her partner, disappeared in a remote tropic location, playing out through the decades?
He hasnt managed to get any assistance from the Oz government, and approaches to the US government resulted in, if you find it, we get to keep everything, oh and btw, we wont pay you a cent towards your expenses. So basically what we currently have is a retired pensioner trying to do it purely on raised funds, mind you, he has mounted quite a few expeditions to look for it, unlike the others that have gotten millions and resulted in zip....

Certainly I find their 'evidence' at best laughable (a compact, that may or may not even be one, some pictures of bones that dont exist anymore)- against a map, with supporting evidence from the National War Museum, and supporting eyewitness statements....
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Old 9th March 2018, 07:26 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
2. AIUI, the Electra was equipped with a Sperry Air Mileage Unit, which, if they were on course, would have given them a fair idea when they were arriving in the vicinity of Howland Island. If they were off course to the north, the comparison between their heading and the bearing of sunrise (too far south) would have sent up a big red flag, and they would have known that they were too far north and had a fair idea where they were... NNW of Howland Island,. Any sensible navigator (and Noonan was an excellent one by all accounts) he would have turned SSE, not west!
Assuming there was no mechanical failure. Dabop's links posit a theory that one of the engines may have failed in some way. "Ugly" rivets. Cowel fatigue. Flat props. Strong winds. Modifications (or the lack of suitable modifications) to the "Flying Laboratory" for such a journey might also have been a contributing factor.

Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
The second problem I have is that the Marshall Islands are northwest of Howland Island. That is the opposite direction from the one they reported heading in theri last received transmission... "on the line of position 157-337" which would indicate a SSE heading
Re: "on the line of position 157-337". Could such a last transmission, assuming accuracy followed by mechanical failure given the above conditions, see the Electra crash-land on New Britain in PNG?

Last edited by dellarte; 9th March 2018 at 07:28 AM.
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