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Tags Canada elections , Canada politics , Elizabeth May , justin trudeau , Thomas Mulcair

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Old 10th December 2015, 05:23 PM   #81
Corsair 115
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I guess we can look forward to four years of hard-hitting news coverage like this on the Trudeau administration: Justin Trudeau and Sophie Grégoire-Trudeau pose for Vogue photo shoot.

Talk about the triumph of style over substance...
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Old 10th December 2015, 05:41 PM   #82
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Why can't you have style and substance? Harper was a goof... but it was ideology over evidence... not substance.

And you're surprised the media is obsessed with beauty?
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Old 10th December 2015, 07:36 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
Why can't you have style and substance? Harper was a goof... but it was ideology over evidence... not substance.

Can you find puff pieces in a similar vein done on Harper? I can't think of any offhand, but maybe there were.


Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
And you're surprised the media is obsessed with beauty?

No. I'm disappointed that a first-time Prime Minister didn't exhibit enough self-awareness to realize that engaging in a puff piece of this kind only gives credence to the criticism of Trudeau as being a paper-thin candidate.

Trudeau could have declined doing this puff piece, and focused on the serious business of running the country. He did not decline. Trudeau's doing nothing to dispel my impression of him as an empty suit; indeed, so far he seems determined to reinforce it.
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Old 10th December 2015, 08:32 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Corsair 115 View Post
Can you find puff pieces in a similar vein done on Harper? I can't think of any offhand, but maybe there were.
What the media did with Harper was say "Who is this camera shy, aloof, awkward policy wonk and why does he treat the media like it's a girl and he's never been kissed?" Trudeau is being himself, has no problem just saying stuff he knows people will go nuts over. This is a guy who told people he smoked dope while an MP, and people are honestly shocked he let a photographer capture him acting natural with his woman?

Quote:
No. I'm disappointed that a first-time Prime Minister didn't exhibit enough self-awareness to realize that engaging in a puff piece of this kind only gives credence to the criticism of Trudeau as being a paper-thin candidate.
Puff piece is a huge stretch, it's a profile in *********** Vogue! Who the **** do you think is going to care? There have been pieces like this on him for years, didn't stop him from getting a majority government. Your argument is that he should be worried about how the least charitable viewers are going to complain? Rejecting that kind of thinking was part of why he did so well.

Quote:
Trudeau could have declined doing this puff piece, and focused on the serious business of running the country. He did not decline. Trudeau's doing nothing to dispel my impression of him as an empty suit; indeed, so far he seems determined to reinforce it.
I read the Vogue piece, and I haven't the slightest *********** clue what you're talking about!

I bet you think the "Obama the media whore" thread is a winner too!

If you see him at a hockey game while there is anything serious going on at all in the world, will you call him incompetent? We've been down that road before and we will get there, just wait.

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Old 10th December 2015, 09:42 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
What the media did with Harper was say "Who is this camera shy, aloof, awkward policy wonk and why does he treat the media like it's a girl and he's never been kissed?" Trudeau is being himself, has no problem just saying stuff he knows people will go nuts over. This is a guy who told people he smoked dope while an MP, and people are honestly shocked he let a photographer capture him acting natural with his woman?

That's a great deal of arm waving. It doesn't, however, actually address my request for examples of Harper getting fawning coverage from the CBC.


Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
Puff piece is a huge stretch, it's a profile in *********** Vogue! Who the **** do you think is going to care? There have been pieces like this on him for years, didn't stop him from getting a majority government. Your argument is that he should be worried about how the least charitable viewers are going to complain? Rejecting that kind of thinking was part of why he did so well.

Of what use or value to the governance of the country is a piece in Vogue? Of what value to the public discourse is fawning CBC News coverage of a Vogue photo shoot? Did Vogue do a similar piece on Harper? Or Paul Martin for that matter? If not, why not? It wouldn't just be giving coverage to Trudeau because he's a pretty boy, would it?


Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
I bet you think the "Obama the media whore" thread is a winner too!

Such a comment says far more about you than it does me. I'm tempted to call it projection.


Originally Posted by Joey McGee View Post
If you see him at a hockey game while there is anything serious going on at all in the world, will you call him incompetent? We've been down that road before and we will get there, just wait.

Well, I'd hope he'd be taking his job seriously. And I'd hope the CBC News would do more than give meaningless, fawning press coverage.
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Old 10th December 2015, 10:11 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Corsair 115 View Post
That's a great deal of arm waving. It doesn't, however, actually address my request for examples of Harper getting fawning coverage from the CBC.
Reality does have a well-known liberal bias... I think you mean the cbc covering the fawning coverage, which if you haven't noticed, is nearly ubiquitous across the planet. So no, you're not going to find a lot of that, since Harper wasn't comfortable with the media or talking about himself etc, and generally was an awkward geek... Trudeau is a dope-smoking, snowboarding, tattoo-having, etc etc, kind of guy. This is to be expected.
Quote:
Of what use or value to the governance of the country is a piece in Vogue?
What use is talking to the media who want to know and convey to the world who you are as a person? That's incredibly curmudgeonly of you.
Quote:
Of what value to the public discourse is fawning CBC News coverage of a Vogue photo shoot? Did Vogue do a similar piece on Harper? Or Paul Martin for that matter? If not, why not? It wouldn't just be giving coverage to Trudeau because he's a pretty boy, would it?
You don't think that Canadians are interested in how the world is looking at their PM? You seem to have certainly been serviced by their work, you can't get enough of it! You don't like it... that's what you have the Post and the Sun for my friend. Plenty of "fair" coverage in there to whet your whistle.
Quote:
Such a comment says far more about you than it does me. I'm tempted to call it projection.
In that thread we were told that Obama is a media whore because he comments on sports, it's stupid. Politicians are people too, and people are interested in them as people. They should stop being people and be all serious and businesslike all the time? No one wants to live in that world anymore, welcome to the future.
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Well, I'd hope he'd be taking his job seriously. And I'd hope the CBC News would do more than give meaningless, fawning press coverage.
Every article on his government work includes comments by the opposition, you're full of ****.
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Old 10th December 2015, 11:35 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Corsair 115 View Post
Can you find puff pieces in a similar vein done on Harper? I can't think of any offhand, but maybe there were.





No. I'm disappointed that a first-time Prime Minister didn't exhibit enough self-awareness to realize that engaging in a puff piece of this kind only gives credence to the criticism of Trudeau as being a paper-thin candidate.

Trudeau could have declined doing this puff piece, and focused on the serious business of running the country. He did not decline. Trudeau's doing nothing to dispel my impression of him as an empty suit; indeed, so far he seems determined to reinforce it.
Do you not get the National Post. It's readily available. They've done Stephen Harper at Home, Stephen Harper and his Band, Herringbone, Stephen Harper's Favorite Pastimes, Stephen Harper's Passion for Hockey, etc...

Were you as concerned about how much time Harper took away from his duties as PM and Leader of his party to devote to writing a book on the history of Ice Hockey between 2005 and 2013?

Or is this like someone else mentioned.... just as worrisome as the Obama Media Whore discussion. Note that said OP doesn't appear to be concerned the Nixon phoned in a play to the Superbowl coach, nor that he horned in on the moon walk (the actual one, not Michael Jackson's dance move) to get his fat face on television.

When someone you're against gets it, it's unfair attention and exploitation of the privilege of office. When someone you're for gets it, it's an interesting look into the private lives and interests of one of our tireless leaders.

Partisan hackery.
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Old 11th December 2015, 01:54 AM   #88
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Originally Posted by Corsair 115 View Post
Well, I'd hope he'd be taking his job seriously.
I suppose he should be more like his father, who we all remember was super-super-serious, 24/7.

Now my expectations for a Prime Minister is to be . . . wait, does it matter? Where is it written what a Prime Minister has to do with his personal life? Or that he can only be photographed by "serious" magazines?

He's from a new generation, he can start his own traditions of what a Prime Minister can or can't do.
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Old 12th December 2015, 05:02 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Do you not get the National Post. It's readily available. They've done Stephen Harper at Home, Stephen Harper and his Band, Herringbone, Stephen Harper's Favorite Pastimes, Stephen Harper's Passion for Hockey, etc...

I thought we were talking about the CBC News, an organization which has far more reach than the National Post. That's a nice bait and switch you've got going on there.


Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Were you as concerned about how much time Harper took away from his duties as PM and Leader of his party to devote to writing a book on the history of Ice Hockey between 2005 and 2013?

Still avoiding the puff, fawning coverage the CBC elected to go with, I see.


Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Or is this like someone else mentioned.... just as worrisome as the Obama Media Whore discussion. Note that said OP doesn't appear to be concerned the Nixon phoned in a play to the Superbowl coach, nor that he horned in on the moon walk (the actual one, not Michael Jackson's dance move) to get his fat face on television.

I'm not American, so I don't give a rat's posterior what goes on there in regards to Obama and media coverage. But by all means if you wish to venture off to that ground, go ahead, but it has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Perhaps you've mistaken this for the USA Politics section?


Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
When someone you're against gets it, it's unfair attention and exploitation of the privilege of office. When someone you're for gets it, it's an interesting look into the private lives and interests of one of our tireless leaders.

I don't hate the Liberals, I just have little use for Justin Trudeau, who has only achieved what he's achieved thanks to his daddy's name. Do you think if his last name was Williams and he had no genetic attachment to a famous prime minister of the past he would have been taken seriously as a Liberal leadership candidate? Everything Trudeau has said and done so far strikes me as the offerings of an empty suit. And this recent bit, coupled with the CBC fawning over it, does nothing to dispel that.

If he wants my vote for next time, he'd better pick up his game and show me some damned substance. His statement "Because it's 2015" has already reached internet meme status for its vapidity.


Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Partisan hackery.

If that's directed at my comment in this thread, then as I said to Joey, your statement says far more about you than it does me. Congratulations on the projection.

I've voted for Liberal, Conservative, and NDP at one time or another, both federally and provincially. No party has a lock on my vote. But, hey, be sure to keep flogging the idea that anyone who criticizes Trudeau or the CBC must be a right-wing conservative. It'll do wonders for your argumentative credibility in my eyes.
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Old 12th December 2015, 05:05 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by TriangleMan View Post
I suppose he should be more like his father, who we all remember was super-super-serious, 24/7.

Now my expectations for a Prime Minister is to be . . . wait, does it matter? Where is it written what a Prime Minister has to do with his personal life? Or that he can only be photographed by "serious" magazines?

He's from a new generation, he can start his own traditions of what a Prime Minister can or can't do.

Sure. Then I can lambaste him for that here in this thread. Kind of like what's been going on.
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Old 12th December 2015, 06:50 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Corsair 115 View Post
I thought we were talking about the CBC News, an organization which has far more reach than the National Post. That's a nice bait and switch you've got going on there.





Still avoiding the puff, fawning coverage the CBC elected to go with, I see.





I'm not American, so I don't give a rat's posterior what goes on there in regards to Obama and media coverage. But by all means if you wish to venture off to that ground, go ahead, but it has nothing to do with the subject of this thread. Perhaps you've mistaken this for the USA Politics section?





I don't hate the Liberals, I just have little use for Justin Trudeau, who has only achieved what he's achieved thanks to his daddy's name. Do you think if his last name was Williams and he had no genetic attachment to a famous prime minister of the past he would have been taken seriously as a Liberal leadership candidate? Everything Trudeau has said and done so far strikes me as the offerings of an empty suit. And this recent bit, coupled with the CBC fawning over it, does nothing to dispel that.

If he wants my vote for next time, he'd better pick up his game and show me some damned substance. His statement "Because it's 2015" has already reached internet meme status for its vapidity.





If that's directed at my comment in this thread, then as I said to Joey, your statement says far more about you than it does me. Congratulations on the projection.

I've voted for Liberal, Conservative, and NDP at one time or another, both federally and provincially. No party has a lock on my vote. But, hey, be sure to keep flogging the idea that anyone who criticizes Trudeau or the CBC must be a right-wing conservative. It'll do wonders for your argumentative credibility in my eyes.
Partisan doesn't necessarily refer to party politics.

The parallels to ODS are valid. You don't like someone so the CBC bit is a "puff piece". I simply picked the first Harper puff piece that I found and looked in that publication for similar articles. If you want Harper puff pieces you can find them. (Laureen Harper fosters cats from humane society, Laureen Harper joins facebook, etc...)

I'm not doing a lot of research on this, just picking obvious fluff topics. CBC had sufficient fillers that were not in the least "newsworthy". True, they probably hated Harper; who wouldn't when he was trying to defund them (or variations thereof). But singling out this stupid story when they run such crap on every PM/leader and their family is to be blind to reality.

Was this "puff piece" the only article run on Trudeau or the Liberal Government that day? That week? Singling out a single story in the mounds of coverage speaks more to your slant than mine. Can you not find a review of Harper's book on the CBC? I could. Comparing Justin's coverage to Harper's isn't fair, of course. Harper hated the media and didn't grant interviews, in general. Trudeau has his daddy's love of the big eye in the living room, if not his ability to milk it.

(I have no affection for the LP. Canadian LP policy under Trudeau done me a real big favour many years ago. I returned that by supporting the NDP, PQ and Rhinoceros Party.)
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Old 13th December 2015, 09:12 PM   #92
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Originally Posted by TriangleMan View Post
I suppose he should be more like his father, who we all remember was super-super-serious, 24/7.
Trudeau Sr. is often seem by many as a horrible prime minister. He was actually ranked as the worst Canadian in a poll by a magazine (even beating out serial killers Olsen and Bernardo.) When he left office, the country was divided like never before, the country was in serious deficit, and the military was severely cut back.

Frankly, I'd rather we had a prime minister was a bit more serious than Pierre Trudeau was.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/trudea...-poll-1.675408

Quote:
Now my expectations for a Prime Minister is to be . . . wait, does it matter? Where is it written what a Prime Minister has to do with his personal life? Or that he can only be photographed by "serious" magazines?
Justin Trudeau certainly does have the right to spend his free time as he sees fit. But, the earlier criticism of Trudeau was that he was an intellectual lightweight.

The fashion industry is generally seen as being filled with vapid, idiotic people. Posing for a magazine associated with that industry is certainly playing to the "Trudeau is an intellectual lightweight" portrayal.
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Old 14th December 2015, 12:06 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Corsair 115 View Post
I guess we can look forward to four years of hard-hitting news coverage like this on the Trudeau administration: Justin Trudeau and Sophie Grégoire-Trudeau pose for Vogue photo shoot.

Talk about the triumph of style over substance...

Yes, I'm outraged that Vogue has departed from its famous history of hard-nosed investigative journalism to post fashion shots of the PM.



Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Were you as concerned about how much time Harper took away from his duties as PM and Leader of his party to devote to writing a book on the history of Ice Hockey between 2005 and 2013?

Or how about the Friday after last year's attack here in Ottawa, where he went out of his way to attend a football game and take pictures with his fawning fans*?









*Yeah, I got my picture taken. He was only ten rows behind me! Go RedBlacks!
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Old 14th December 2015, 03:11 PM   #94
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And in previous years where he got his picture taken at the Army Run. It's like he's a politician who wanted some name recognition for being at public events.
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Old 14th December 2015, 05:19 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Yes, I'm outraged that Vogue has departed from its famous history of hard-nosed investigative journalism to post fashion shots of the PM.






Or how about the Friday after last year's attack here in Ottawa, where he went out of his way to attend a football game and take pictures with his fawning fans*?









*Yeah, I got my picture taken. He was only ten rows behind me! Go RedBlacks!
Originally Posted by Border Reiver View Post
And in previous years where he got his picture taken at the Army Run. It's like he's a politician who wanted some name recognition for being at public events.
A politician wanting publicity? Say it isn't so!
News organizations cooperating and sending in film crews and reporters? Gasp!

Oh, wait. I hated Harper. So this was a typical do-nothing politician frittering away our precious journalistic resources, then.
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Old 14th December 2015, 06:28 PM   #96
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
.... a typical do-nothing politician frittering away our precious journalistic resources, then.


Well, what do you expect from someone who denies Peak Journalism?
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Old 15th December 2015, 09:02 AM   #97
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Yet more problems with the Liberals....

Remember during the election when the Liberals would run a deficit but promised to keep it under $10 billion? Ha! suckers!

The prediction is now $25 billion. They are saying they'll keep the debt-to-GDP ratio low, but that isn't what they promised during the election. They specifically promised sub-$10 billion deficits.

Oh, and remember their promises that they could give lower and middle-class people tax breaks without impacting finances? Ha! Sucker! Turns out that they failed at that too. The plan to raise taxes on the wealthy and cut them for the lower brackets won't be revenue neutral after all.

Now that the federal Liberals have shied away from their vow to keep annual deficits under $10 billion, they've latched on to another fiscal target — and this one will be much easier to meet. The new government is suddenly talking about the debt-to-GDP ratio...By targeting debt-to-GDP, the Liberals could instead be prepared to run annual deficits of up to $25 billion...Earlier this month, projections by the parliamentary budget office suggested the government could find itself running annual deficits up to $15 billion once the Liberals' costed, big-ticket election promises are factored in. On top of that, the party has also made several uncosted vows. Then, this week, the Liberals conceded their new tax package will, in fact, drain more than $1 billion net from the treasury each year.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/can...361723781.html

The most annoying thing? Much like the Liberal promise of 25000 refugees by end of 2015, we KNEW their plans would not work. 3 campaign promises broken, and the government hasn't even lost that new government smell.

Oh, and remember the Liberals complaining about conservative "patronage appointments" before the election call? They sent out letters asking people to voluntarily resign... however, at least some of those singled out had no political affiliations, and were supposedly quite competent at their jobs (i.e. they are the type of people we WANT in our public service). And they aren't happy getting "smeared" by the Liberals by suggestions that they were appointed for political reasons.

From: http://news.nationalpost.com/news/ca...dent-to-resign
Canada Post’s board of directors has rejected the Liberal government’s request that post office president Deepak Chopra voluntarily resign... Matthews’s letter politely but firmly tells LeBlanc, and, indirectly, Trudeau, that their request is unwarranted and unworthy — and, indeed, shameful... In her letter to LeBlanc, Matthews sketches Chopra’s background qualifications — including senior executive positions with Pitney Bowes, a global mailing and communications company, before being selected as Canada Post president in 2011 — and observes that he was the “unanimous choice” of the board’s selection committee.

I'm sure there were some real, actual patronage appointments. But it seems like the Liberals did not even think that hey, maybe some people are getting hired on merit.
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Old 15th December 2015, 12:17 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Yet more problems with the Liberals....

Remember during the election when the Liberals would run a deficit but promised to keep it under $10 billion? Ha! suckers!

The prediction is now $25 billion. They are saying they'll keep the debt-to-GDP ratio low, but that isn't what they promised during the election. They specifically promised sub-$10 billion deficits.
OOPS ... to the tune of maybe $15 billion! Not good. We'll have to wait for the end of the fiscal year to see just how much a deficit they actually run.

That's as opposed to the fake "surplus" the Conservatives sort of, kind of gave us by not spending on things like war vets with PTSD, so the money could be returned to the treasury.

Mind you, the Liberals now have to dig Canada out of a Harper-inspired recession. Usually when the US economy does well, so does Canada's. When the financial crisis hit in 2008, Canada was reasonably well protected due to measures the previous Liberal government had put into place, specifically in the banking sector.

Rather to his credit, Harper started spending a bit to help the economy along. That accounts in part for the Conservative's 9 year run of deficits. That and a bunch of tax breaks for their rich friends.

But for a Canadian government to put Canada into a recession while the US is starting to boom again ... that's quite an achievement! Thanks, Harper (not!)

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Oh, and remember their promises that they could give lower and middle-class people tax breaks without impacting finances? Ha! Sucker! Turns out that they failed at that too. The plan to raise taxes on the wealthy and cut them for the lower brackets won't be revenue neutral after all.
Oops again! Looks like someone wasn't crunching the numbers very well.

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Now that the federal Liberals have shied away from their vow to keep annual deficits under $10 billion, they've latched on to another fiscal target — and this one will be much easier to meet. The new government is suddenly talking about the debt-to-GDP ratio...By targeting debt-to-GDP, the Liberals could instead be prepared to run annual deficits of up to $25 billion...Earlier this month, projections by the parliamentary budget office suggested the government could find itself running annual deficits up to $15 billion once the Liberals' costed, big-ticket election promises are factored in. On top of that, the party has also made several uncosted vows. Then, this week, the Liberals conceded their new tax package will, in fact, drain more than $1 billion net from the treasury each year.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/can...361723781.html
Do you have a subscription to the Free Press? Whenever I go there, I'm asked to log in and I can't read the article.

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The most annoying thing? Much like the Liberal promise of 25000 refugees by end of 2015, we KNEW their plans would not work. 3 campaign promises broken, and the government hasn't even lost that new government smell.
More accurately, two broken (the fiscal ones) and one incomplete. I'm not sure how they thought they could vet and resettle 25,000 new permanent residents in six weeks. But they haven't yet changed the number, just the target date. Compare that with the pitifully low number the US is preparing to accept. Or Donald Trump, who fortunately isn't the President.
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Old 15th December 2015, 02:18 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
That's as opposed to the fake "surplus" the Conservatives sort of, kind of gave us by not spending on things like war vets with PTSD, so the money could be returned to the treasury.
Or the Chretien government not spending on things like EH-101 Helicopters (even though the sea kings were greatly in need of replacement at the time.)

Yes, it happens.... all governments do it. And Justin "the Hair" Trudeau is going to to it with the CF18 and navy procurement projects.

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Mind you, the Liberals now have to dig Canada out of a Harper-inspired recession.
I don't think this is a "Harper-inspired" recession. Global resource prices (oil, gold, iron, lumber, etc.) have all slumped, and as a country that produces a lot of those resources, we are going to be affected. Plus, while the U.S. economy is growing, its not exactly strong growth. (Their economy actually shrunk back in Spring 2014, and has growth of <1% for at least one quarter this year.)

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Usually when the US economy does well, so does Canada's. When the financial crisis hit in 2008, Canada was reasonably well protected due to measures the previous Liberal government had put into place, specifically in the banking sector.
Actually it probably had as much to do with our resource-based economy, since demand at that time was still fairly high.

By the way, do you have any proof that the Liberals "protected our banking industry"? I have heard claims like that before, but I have never actually seen any proof. I do remember that, at the time, the conservatives were pushing to loosen some regulations, but I have never seen anything to suggest that they would have pushed for the type of deregulation they had in the U.S. (And its not easy searching for stuff that far back on the internet.) It makes me wonder if its some sort of self-reinforcing myth... "The Liberals saved our banking system"... Proof? Well someone else said "The Liberals saved our banking system", so now I'll tell everyone else.
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Rather to his credit, Harper started spending a bit to help the economy along. That accounts in part for the Conservative's 9 year run of deficits. That and a bunch of tax breaks for their rich friends.
Actually, many of the cuts have favored lower income Canadians (Working Income Tax Benefit, GST) and overall their tax cuts have been progressive (i.e. benefiting the poor more than the rich.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workin...fit_%28WITB%29

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But for a Canadian government to put Canada into a recession while the US is starting to boom again ... that's quite an achievement! Thanks, Harper (not!)
The U.S. is starting to boom? Lets see: According to the World Bank, between 2011 and 2014 Canada's growth rate was 3.0, 1.9, 2.0 and 2.5.
The U.S. growth rate was:1.6, 2.3, 2.2 and 2.4. And, as I pointed out before, they had negative growth for one quarter last year, and <1% growth for at least one quarter this year. Not exactly an economic boom.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.KD.ZG

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The plan to raise taxes on the wealthy and cut them for the lower brackets won't be revenue neutral after all.
Oops again! Looks like someone wasn't crunching the numbers very well.
Or they did, but still lied about it.

But that's ok... if its a liberal that does it, its not REALLY a lie. Isn't that how it works?
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Do you have a subscription to the Free Press? Whenever I go there, I'm asked to log in and I can't read the article.
No, I don't have a subscription. Maybe they have some sort of counter (a certain number of free articles a month)?

However, I've seem the same article and/or information posted elsewhere.

http://www.cbc.ca/m/touch/business/story/1.3363946

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More accurately, two broken (the fiscal ones) and one incomplete.
Actually, if you put a certain time frame on your promise (e.g. "we will settle 25,000 refugees by the end of the year) and then say "we won't do it until next year" that is not an incomplete promise. It is a broken promise.

An incomplete process would be "We will settle refugees as quickly as we can", and then, in a few months (if they haven't settled everyone yet) say that its incomplete.
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I'm not sure how they thought they could vet and resettle 25,000 new permanent residents in six weeks.
Well, either they were incompetent, or they were lying. Pick one.
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But they haven't yet changed the number, just the target date.
The date was a specific part of the promise. (Its what made their promise different than the NDP promise.) Giving a firm date then changing it is breaking the promise.

If you don't think so, try delaying the date that you pay your mortgage without asking the bank first and see how well they likes it.
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Compare that with the pitifully low number the US is preparing to accept. Or Donald Trump, who fortunately isn't the President.
Never claimed that Canada wasn't accepting more refugees than the U.S. (Heck, even the conservatives were planning on accepting more Syrians.)

But the Liberals could have been smarter... they could have said "25,000 sometime in the new year" (Like, you know, the NDP, or many aid organizations said was reasonable.) Or even said 25,000 but left it without a firm date. But, they wanted all those votes that come with being the party of kindness.
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Old 23rd December 2015, 03:29 AM   #100
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Yet more hypocrisy from the Trudeau government...

After an election filled with promises of transparency and accountability, the Liberals have decided to actually reduce transparency.

A couple of years ago, the Conservatives brought in the First Nations Financial Transparency act. Some native leaders didn't like it (claiming it was unnecessary red tape), but it has had the effect of uncovering some abuses (like a band chief earning almost $1 million, despite having less than 100 people in the band.)

Well, the liberals have backed off the law... removing potential punishments for not complying (and making the law more or less useless.)

http://www.thestar.com/opinion/edito...editorial.html

They've also repealed bill C-377, a new bill which would have forced unions to disclose certain financial transactions. There had been complaints from unions (duh!), and even some provinces, as well as possible constitutional issues. But, apparently previous laws regarding accountability weren't working very well.

From: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/libe...ions-1.3375076
Bill C-377 required unions to disclose all transactions over $5,000 and reveal the details of officers or executives who make over $100,000 to the Canada Revenue Agency...The waiver effectively removes any worry unions had that they would see their spending, including how much they spend on political activities and social causes, as well as details about contracts with private companies and contractors, made public... Liberals said there were already federal labour rules in place requiring unions to open their books to their members...Proponents of the bill argue those rules haven't worked well and condemned the government's refusal to enforce the legislation.

Now, unions are not government organizations. However, union dues ARE considered tax deductible expenses. It does make some sense to have oversight over their expenditures (much like charitable expenses are). All this is especially relevant, after the Charbonneau commission uncovered massive fraud in quebec unions, including ties to biker gangs and the mafia. (And remember, none of the previous disclosure rules managed to stop the fraud that the Charbonneau commission uncovered.)

Oh and by the way... remember "dictator" Harper, doing things without involving parliament? Guess what? The Liberal waiver of bill C-377 was not done as a result of a vote by parliament, but by executive decision. (But I guess those were only bad when done by a Conservative government.)

So thanks Liberal voters... For all of Trudeau's campaign rhetoric, we now currently have less transparency and accountability than we had when the Conservatives lost power.
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Old 23rd December 2015, 06:40 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Oh and by the way... remember "dictator" Harper, doing things without involving parliament? Guess what? The Liberal waiver of bill C-377 was not done as a result of a vote by parliament, but by executive decision. (But I guess those were only bad when done by a Conservative government.)

So thanks Liberal voters... For all of Trudeau's campaign rhetoric, we now currently have less transparency and accountability than we had when the Conservatives lost power.
Conservatives are a fine bunch to talk about "transparency." Harper ran the most opaque government in history. Everything was scripted, and no communications came out of the government without first being passed by the PMO.

Meanwhile, corporations are free to spend money on whatever they want to without any transparency whatsoever. So transparency is mandated only when you're in the Conservative's "bad books" but not when you're a major donor to the party.

As far as our First Nations go, Trudeau has done more in the month since he was elected to repair the strained relationship between First Nations and Canada than Harper did in nine years. Harper blocked any sort of inquiry into murdered and missing aboriginal women for years; Trudeau is busy outting the inquiry together.

Here in Manitoba, Shoal Lake 40 First Nation was cut off from the mainland when the city of Winnipeg dug a canal for its water supply, which it draws from Shoal Lake. The First Nation has been lobbying for years to get a road built to them, which will help them put in a water treatment plant so they can lift the boil water advisory they've been under for the past seventeen years. The road is 30 km long and will cost about $30 million. Manitoba and the local RM have pledged $10 M each; all that was needed was $10 M from the federal government. Harper, the same guy who spent $23 million to construct a media centre for the G20 meeting, sat on the file for years. Trudeau immediately found $10 M so the construction can proceed.
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Old 24th December 2015, 12:40 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Quote:
Oh and by the way... remember "dictator" Harper, doing things without involving parliament? Guess what? The Liberal waiver of bill C-377 was not done as a result of a vote by parliament, but by executive decision. (But I guess those were only bad when done by a Conservative government.)

So thanks Liberal voters... For all of Trudeau's campaign rhetoric, we now currently have less transparency and accountability than we had when the Conservatives lost power.
Conservatives are a fine bunch to talk about "transparency." Harper ran the most opaque government in history. Everything was scripted, and no communications came out of the government without first being passed by the PMO.
That certainly seems to be the standard playbook... when faults are found with a person's favorite party, jump in and slam some other party.

As for the specifics of your accusation... I don't think the Liberals have the high ground when it comes to transparency and accountability... Under Chretien they certainly went through great efforts to muddy the waters (remember the whole HRDC scandal, and ad scam. Then there was Trudeau Sr. and his "MPs are nobodies" statement.) I certainly don't think the Conservatives have been perfect, but claims that they were the "most opaque ever" is nothing but empty political rhetoric.

Quote:
Meanwhile, corporations are free to spend money on whatever they want to without any transparency whatsoever.
As I've pointed out... Union dues are tax deductible. (This puts them in the same category as charities, which can be scrutinized by the government.) Corporations are not charitable organizations, and their income is not tax deductible, thus, the government does not have the same incentive to ensure they are operating above board.

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As far as our First Nations go, Trudeau has done more in the month since he was elected to repair the strained relationship between First Nations and Canada than Harper did in nine years.
So, your definition of "repairing the strained relationship" means "lets give them as much money as they want, with few checks to make sure the money isn't wasted".

You know, I wonder how the members of the band where the chief was making almost $1 million/year feel knowing that the rules that were put in place to detect such waste are being removed.

ETA: You know, this reminds me of Obama winning the Nobel peace prize, not because of anything he did, but because "He's not Bush". I rather suspect that once difficult decisions need to get made, Trudeau will no longer be the savior of First Nations/Canada relations, but just another politician.
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Harper blocked any sort of inquiry into murdered and missing aboriginal women for years; Trudeau is busy outting the inquiry together.
Yes, because we need more useless feel-good inquiries.

The RCMP has investigated the issue... as expected, most murders are committed by individuals that are known to the victim. And while an aboriginal woman is more likely to be subject to violence, I doubt its a big mystery about why... widespread poverty and alcohol abuse. (I rather suspect that things will come down to "give us more money", even though in the past money has been wildly misspent.)

Quote:
Here in Manitoba, Shoal Lake 40 First Nation was cut off from the mainland when the city of Winnipeg dug a canal for its water supply, which it draws from Shoal Lake. The First Nation has been lobbying for years to get a road built to them, which will help them put in a water treatment plant so they can lift the boil water advisory they've been under for the past seventeen years. The road is 30 km long and will cost about $30 million. Manitoba and the local RM have pledged $10 M each; all that was needed was $10 M from the federal government.
While you sit there and slam Harper for his inaction, you ignore the fact that the Liberals were in power for much of he time that Shoal lake has had drinking water issues.

From: http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/loc...113126539.html
Ottawa had set aside $7.6 million for a plant that has been discussed with the First Nation since 1998.
Hmmm... The Liberals were in power until 2006. So, for ~8 years, the liberals sat around with their thumbs up their rear ends.
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Harper, the same guy who spent $23 million to construct a media centre for the G20 meeting
First of all, from what I understand, the media pavilion was $2 million, not $23 million. And since Canada was obligated to host the conference, a media center would have been a requirement.
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Old 24th December 2015, 06:47 AM   #103
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Quote:
So, your definition of "repairing the strained relationship" means "lets give them as much money as they want, with few checks to make sure the money isn't wasted".

You know, I wonder how the members of the band where the chief was making almost $1 million/year feel knowing that the rules that were put in place to detect such waste are being removed.
Meanwhile, the Europeans basically stole the entire country from its original inhabitants, did everything they could to dishonour the treaties that were signed with them, relegated them to second-class citizens, and launched into a program of cultural genocide that lasted over a century. So yeah, First Nations have a bit of a beef with the rest of Canada. We've become very rich and have done precious little to share that wealth with the original inhabitants.

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Yes, because we need more useless feel-good inquiries.

The RCMP has investigated the issue... as expected, most murders are committed by individuals that are known to the victim. And while an aboriginal woman is more likely to be subject to violence, I doubt its a big mystery about why... widespread poverty and alcohol abuse. (I rather suspect that things will come down to "give us more money", even though in the past money has been wildly misspent.)
The families of the murdered and missing aboriginal women are saying the police have not investigated the murders. (See also previous comment.)

Quote:
First of all, from what I understand, the media pavilion was $2 million, not $23 million. And since Canada was obligated to host the conference, a media centre would have been a requirement.
The $2 million was for the artificial lake, in a country that arguably has more lakes than any other in the world.
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Old 24th December 2015, 06:49 AM   #104
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Meanwhile, the Europeans basically stole the entire country from its original inhabitants, did everything they could to dishonour the treaties that were signed with them, relegated them to second-class citizens, and launched into a program of cultural genocide that lasted over a century. So yeah, First Nations have a bit of a beef with the rest of Canada. We've become very rich and have done precious little to share that wealth with the original inhabitants.


The families of the murdered and missing aboriginal women are saying the police have not investigated the murders. (See also previous comment.)


The $2 million was for the artificial lake, in a country that arguably has more lakes than any other in the world.


(Snipped long rant about Stephen Harper. This thread is supposed to be about Justin Trudeau's government, which inevitably involves Trudeau himself.)
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Old 29th December 2015, 07:04 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
Quote:
So, your definition of "repairing the strained relationship" means "lets give them as much money as they want, with few checks to make sure the money isn't wasted".

You know, I wonder how the members of the band where the chief was making almost $1 million/year feel knowing that the rules that were put in place to detect such waste are being removed.
Meanwhile, the Europeans basically stole the entire country from its original inhabitants, did everything they could to dishonour the treaties that were signed with them, relegated them to second-class citizens, and launched into a program of cultural genocide that lasted over a century. So yeah, First Nations have a bit of a beef with the rest of Canada. We've become very rich and have done precious little to share that wealth with the original inhabitants.
First of all, I do not deny that in the past, the native population has been mistreated. However, we do not have infinite resources.

Native Canadians have received millions over the past decades (under both conservative AND liberal governments), and yet poverty is still (sadly) common. Just giving more money is probably not the solution.

Lastly.... lets say there is more that can be done (I never said I was against taking steps to improve relations.) However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the rules that were brought in to improve transparency for funding of native groups runs counter to that. If there is waste (e.g. a chief earning more than he should), I'm sure the average native Canadian would probably want to know about that, so the money can be properly directed to the people that need it.

And its that removal of transparency by Trudeau that I think is wrong.... it does little to help those at the bottom (who most need help).

Quote:
Quote:
Yes, because we need more useless feel-good inquiries.

The RCMP has investigated the issue... as expected, most murders are committed by individuals that are known to the victim. And while an aboriginal woman is more likely to be subject to violence, I doubt its a big mystery about why... widespread poverty and alcohol abuse. (I rather suspect that things will come down to "give us more money", even though in the past money has been wildly misspent.)
The families of the murdered and missing aboriginal women are saying the police have not investigated the murders. (See also previous comment.)
I'm sure many families of murdered/missing women are saying the police haven't investigated. But the fact that they are unhappy with the police investigation doesn't necessarily mean the cases were mishandled. (At least any more than non-aboriginal cases would be in similar circumstances.)

If someone decides to run away from home and ends up abused as a result or living on the street, its tragic. But, police are not omniscient... they'd probably have equal trouble tracking down a white girl as they would a native girl. It may happen more often in native communities, but again, that's probably a result of things like poverty and substance abuse.

Quote:
Re: Expenditures for the G8/G20 summit
Quote:
First of all, from what I understand, the media pavilion was $2 million, not $23 million. And since Canada was obligated to host the conference, a media centre would have been a requirement.
The $2 million was for the artificial lake, in a country that arguably has more lakes than any other in the world.
Nope, wrong.

From: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/g20-fa...ealed-1.936289
The pool, costing $57,000, is meant to simulate the charm of Ontario's cottage country...The lake is part of a $1.9-million tourism pavilion

So no, you were wrong... the lake was NOT $2 million. It was a small fraction of that. $57k.

Now, lets say that the whole tourist pavillion was a waste. (The purpose of it was to encourage tourism in the area, which was a reasonable goal, but may not have had the success it needed.) The fact that there was one waste of money doesn't necessarily mean that we should automatically accept that other wastes of money are now acceptable.
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Old 29th December 2015, 10:05 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
(respectful snip)
I'm sure many families of murdered/missing women are saying the police haven't investigated. But the fact that they are unhappy with the police investigation doesn't necessarily mean the cases were mishandled. (At least any more than non-aboriginal cases would be in similar circumstances.)

If someone decides to run away from home and ends up abused as a result or living on the street, its tragic. But, police are not omniscient... they'd probably have equal trouble tracking down a white girl as they would a native girl. It may happen more often in native communities, but again, that's probably a result of things like poverty and substance abuse.
On one side we have the police saying they have done investigations. Unfortunately the police aren't exactly known for their excellent relations with First Nations people and have, in the past, been known to lie about things.

On the other side we have the families of missing Aboriginal people saying the police have not done investigations, or have done them poorly.

So now we have a difference of opinion. If only there was a formal way to gather information from interested parties, analyse it, come to conclusions, and make recommendations on how to improve things in the future.

Oh, wait ...

As for the lake, the media pavilion, and the whole G20 meeting, I may just let that one drop. I was using it as an example of Harper spending money on less important things, but that may not have been the best example.

Another one might be building prisons as part of his "tough on crime" strategy, when all the statistics indicate such a policy was unwarranted and quite possibly counter-productive. There's hope the Trudeau government may re-start the prison farm(s) in southern Ontario, something that Harper shut down because it didn't fit into his mentality of punishing people instead of rehabilitating them.
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Old 30th December 2015, 02:27 AM   #107
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
On one side we have the police saying they have done investigations. Unfortunately the police aren't exactly known for their excellent relations with First Nations people and have, in the past, been known to lie about things.

On the other side we have the families of missing Aboriginal people saying the police have not done investigations, or have done them poorly.

So now we have a difference of opinion. If only there was a formal way to gather information from interested parties, analyse it, come to conclusions, and make recommendations on how to improve things in the future.

Oh, wait ...
Homicides in first nations communities are solved at a rate of 81%. This is roughly the same rate for crimes against non-natives. So, this would suggest that, rather than ignoring the problem, the police actually have made attempts to catch the killers.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...nal-women.html

Furthermore, as the above article points out...
In March, Valcourt further angered First Nations chiefs when he told them in a meeting that 70 per cent of the cases of murdered and missing aboriginal women were perpetrated by aboriginal men, a statistic RCMP Commissioner Bob Paulson later reluctantly confirmed.

So, here you have a case of a conservative cabinet minister making a statement that on the surface sounds insensitive, but ultimately proves correct. Yet he got criticized for it.

You see, that's my major concern... things do need to change, but such feel-good exercises (like the inquiry) may stay away from some facts that may be distasteful, even if recognizing those facts can help solve the problem. So it will slap a veneer of respectibility on a bunch of conclusions that are useless.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong... maybe the inquiry will actually delve into some of the more distasteful facts surrounding crimes against first nations women. Maybe it will recommend useful changes, rather than just "give more money". It will be curious whether the Liberals would actually act on such a report, if it ends up making recommendations that go against the wishes of the chiefs.

Quote:
As for the lake, the media pavilion, and the whole G20 meeting, I may just let that one drop. I was using it as an example of Harper spending money on less important things...
Again... the purpose of the media pavilion (and the fake lake) was to generate tourism interest in the Muskoka area. Bringing in more tourists would increase business in the area, providing both more jobs and more tax revenue. Sounds like something pretty important. (whether it was successful or not is far less clear.)

Quote:
Another one might be building prisons as part of his "tough on crime" strategy, when all the statistics indicate such a policy was unwarranted and quite possibly counter-productive.
Is this the whole "crime is decreasing so we don't need to be tough on crime" nonsense?

The problem is, that argument is only comparing 2 time periods under roughly the same set of laws/punishments, where the crime rate can be affected by multiple factors (demographics being probably the most important). It gives no indication of what the crime rate could be under a different set of laws/punishments.

There is also the issue of what is a valid punishment... If a Liberal says "crime X deserves a punishment of 10 years in prison" and a conservative says "crime X deserves 15 years", the lower punishment is not necessarily "best", since there is a large element of personal opinion involved.
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There's hope the Trudeau government may re-start the prison farm(s) in southern Ontario, something that Harper shut down because it didn't fit into his mentality of punishing people instead of rehabilitating them
2 issues with the prison farms:
- Many of them lost money. Now, I don't expect jails to be profit-making ventures, but we don't necessarily have unlimited resources either.
- It is questionable whether skills learned on such farms would be applicable later in life. This doesn't mean that farming skills are worthless; however, those with criminal records may not get a chance to apply those skills because of the stigma attached to hiring someone like that

Now, I am not saying that it was a smart idea to close the prison farms. In fact, it may actually be a good idea to open them up. (I would have to see some statistics showing the number of people who use the skills learned through a prison farm program to find employment upon release, and compare that to alternative training programs that might be employed.) But the reasons for closing them may not be quite as black and white as you seem to suggest, and claiming its all the "bad conservatives just being mean" seems overly simplistic.
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Old 5th January 2016, 04:03 PM   #108
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Oops....

From: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...vote-1.3390340
Niki Ashton's campaign manager, Blair Hudson, has filed a formal complaint with Elections Canada about alleged partisan behaviour at Fairford Poll # 90 and associated polls during the Oct. 19 federal election....The first complaint is that between 558 and 561 votes were counted at the polling station, roughly 300 more votes than voters identified on the electors list... An NDP scrutineer overheard an an Elections Canada worker tell the local returning officer "be careful. The NDP is here watching," Hudson's letter states. At least one person reported to the Ashton campaign they were instructed to vote Liberal in the election.

Note: I don't necessarily blame Trudeau for this, since even if some sort of fraud did happen, I doubt he'd have been micromanaging it.
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Old 19th January 2016, 08:12 AM   #109
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A little political fallout for our withdrawl of CF18s from the ISIS mission...

From: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...ate-fight.html
Canada’s decision to end combat operations against Islamic State extremists may have cost it a seat at the table as allies gather to discuss strategy in their fight against ISIS. When defence ministers from the United States, France, Australia, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom meet in Paris Wednesday, Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan won’t be among them. U.S. Secretary of Defence Ash Carter said the six nations are playing a “significant role” on the ground and in the air in the battle against Islamic State fighters.

I suggest Trudeau take steps to enhance our influence... lets double the number of blankets we give!

Seriously, this isn't exactly surprising. While there were suggestions that somehow Harper "harmed Canada's reputation internationally", the fact that we are now excluded from such meetings means that Trudeau isn't exactly doing much to help our influence either.
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Old 26th January 2016, 11:32 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by Gord_in_Toronto View Post
Mr Trudeau's nicer Canada is having a positive effect already!
Well, so much for the Liberals being all nice...

From: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...deau-1.3412505
Trudeau attempted to differentiate himself from Stephen Harper, who addressed Davos as prime minister in 2012. "My predecessor wanted you to know Canada for its resources," he said. "I want you to know Canadians for our resourcefulness."

All right, 2 problems with that:

- Generally, criticizing former leaders (especially on an international stage) is something that is generally frowned upon. Makes him look petty.

- It ignores the fact that extracting resources generally requires a significant amount of "resourcefulness". (Unless he thinks crude oil magically leaps from the ground into our gas tanks.)

What could he have said? He could have left out "my predecessor" (and simply said "in the past...". He could have made efforts to point out that while we do have significant intellectual potential we aren't forgetting about the resource sector.
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Old 26th January 2016, 12:53 PM   #111
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Well, so much for the Liberals being all nice...

From: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...deau-1.3412505
Trudeau attempted to differentiate himself from Stephen Harper, who addressed Davos as prime minister in 2012. "My predecessor wanted you to know Canada for its resources," he said. "I want you to know Canadians for our resourcefulness."

All right, 2 problems with that:

- Generally, criticizing former leaders (especially on an international stage) is something that is generally frowned upon. Makes him look petty.

- It ignores the fact that extracting resources generally requires a significant amount of "resourcefulness". (Unless he thinks crude oil magically leaps from the ground into our gas tanks.)

What could he have said? He could have left out "my predecessor" (and simply said "in the past...". He could have made efforts to point out that while we do have significant intellectual potential we aren't forgetting about the resource sector.
petty.
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Old 26th January 2016, 07:16 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Well, so much for the Liberals being all nice...

From: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...deau-1.3412505
Trudeau attempted to differentiate himself from Stephen Harper, who addressed Davos as prime minister in 2012. "My predecessor wanted you to know Canada for its resources," he said. "I want you to know Canadians for our resourcefulness."

All right, 2 problems with that:

- Generally, criticizing former leaders (especially on an international stage) is something that is generally frowned upon. Makes him look petty.

- It ignores the fact that extracting resources generally requires a significant amount of "resourcefulness". (Unless he thinks crude oil magically leaps from the ground into our gas tanks.)

What could he have said? He could have left out "my predecessor" (and simply said "in the past...". He could have made efforts to point out that while we do have significant intellectual potential we aren't forgetting about the resource sector.
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
petty.
Or, perhaps, telling it like it is. As if simply saying, "In the past the government has ..." would have caused anyone to think he was referring to a decade-before Liberal government instead of the just-departed Harper government. And remember, it was Harper who on insisted it be known as the "Harper Government." In that vein, he reaped what he sowed.

A lot of what's been posted here is, in my opinion, petty. There will be some real meat to chew on when the budget comes down.
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Old 30th January 2016, 07:13 PM   #113
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
A lot of what's been posted here is, in my opinion, petty. There will be some real meat to chew on when the budget comes down.


Yes. I'm really getting annoyed with all the Conservative supporters who are all falling over themselves to declare Trudeau some sort of failure less than four months into his mandate, and either demanding apologies for voting him in, or predicting he'll get booted by his own party in short order.

Come on, seriously: at least let him actually screw up before declaring him a failure*. Doing so at this point reveals your objections are literally nothing but knee jerk partisanship.





*It's government. Some sort of screw up is inevitable.
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Old 13th April 2016, 11:56 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Yes. I'm really getting annoyed with all the Conservative supporters who are all falling over themselves to declare Trudeau some sort of failure less than four months into his mandate...
Is that anything like the Liberal supporters here who, following Harper's election in 2011, were predicting he'd turn the country into some sort of theocracy, even before he was sworn in?

I didn't create this thread. I assumed it was supposed to be a general discussion thread. Otherwise, shouldn't it be called the "Praise Justine Trudeau" thread?

Lastly, keep in mind that the things I have pointed out are failings that have already occurred. For example, he promised to bring in 25000 Refugees by the end of 2015. Regardless of what happens in the future, that is still a broken promise, and unless his first budget financed a time machine to go back in time and fix things, he still broke a promise.

Quote:
and either demanding apologies for voting him in...
I don't expect apologies. But it sure would be nice if the raging hypocrisy were turned down a bit.

I voted conservative in the last election. However, I did so with the knowledge that not everything they did or planned I agreed with. I have no problem acknowledging that (for example) the conservatives use of Omnibus bills was wrong.

There is no need to apologize for voting Liberal. Heck, there were even some policies that they had that I preferred over the Conservative policies. But please quit assuming that Trudeau's poop doesn't stink.

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or predicting he'll get booted by his own party in short order.
Who claimed that? I know I certainly didn't. In fact, I actually predicted he would be in power for at least 2 terms.

Quote:
Come on, seriously: at least let him actually screw up before declaring him a failure*.
I've actually pointed out things that he's screwed up. While it is too early to say whether the Liberal government as a whole is a screw up, there is certainly nothing wrong with pointing out individual policies that were failures.
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Old 13th April 2016, 12:26 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
There will be some real meat to chew on when the budget comes down.
Surprised nobody commented on it yet...

First budget came down. Some highlights:

- Deficit of $29.5 billion, with virtually no chance of eliminating the deficit before the next election. (So much for the $10 billion they promised during the election)

- Shifts in tax benefits for those with children. (apparently less than what was promised in the election)

- As expected, more infrastructure spending

- Extended EI benefits for workers impacted by the drop in oil prices. (Not sure how I feel about that... after all, it is sad that people are so impacted, but they were doing exceptionally well before the collapse in the oil industry; you'd figure they should have saved up some.)

- More money for native people, for post-secondary educational grants, for culture and the CBC

- Ending of income splitting

- Ending the plan for increasing the old age security benefits from 65 to 67 years (as the conservatives had done)

- Small business tax rate has been frozen at 10.5%, which is less than it was before, but is greater than the planned reduction to 9%

What's not in the budget:

- Any sort of increase in military spending. After the "decade of darkness" under Chretien, and the unfortunate continuation of military cuts by the conservatives, it looks like the woes of the military are going to continue.

- I haven't seen anything about the promised middle class tax cuts. (Admittedly it was a first budget, so perhaps those promises will come in the future.)


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle29336681/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle29352253/
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Old 16th April 2016, 08:11 PM   #116
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Yes. I'm really getting annoyed with all the Conservative supporters who are all falling over themselves to declare Trudeau some sort of failure less than four months into his mandate, and either demanding apologies for voting him in, or predicting he'll get booted by his own party in short order.
Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Is that anything like the Liberal supporters here who, following Harper's election in 2011, were predicting he'd turn the country into some sort of theocracy, even before he was sworn in?

Segnosaur's got a point there.

But then, this subforum involves politics. And a political subforum is where logic and reason go to die (with the Social Issues & Current Events subforum not far behind I would say).
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Old 17th April 2016, 12:41 AM   #117
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His SJW nonsense is getting tired fast but I can still look past it for now.
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Old 17th April 2016, 08:34 AM   #118
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
His SJW nonsense is getting tired fast but I can still look past it for now.
What sort of "nonsense" are you thinking about?
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Old 17th April 2016, 09:37 AM   #119
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I'm surprised the Saudi arms deal hasn't been mentioned yet. The Trudeau decision to honour the deal has created more concerns about the transparency of the administration and has them being sued which resulted in the revelation that they're more involved than they're comfortable admitting to the public. The first third of this Canadaland podcast highlights the problems the Liberals are having defending their role and how they've attempted to use the language of social justice to do it.
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Old 17th April 2016, 03:12 PM   #120
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Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys View Post
His SJW nonsense is getting tired fast but I can still look past it for now.

My irritations are as follows: (1) basically what you said; sometimes Trudeau sounds like he's just finished reading a Tumblr blog; (2) the ridiculous amount of fawning coverage/attention he gets from the press/public; and (3) he's an empty suit who's only gotten to where he is by riding off his daddy's name. Honestly, does anyone really think he would have won the Liberal leadership if his last name wasn't Trudeau?


Originally Posted by Blue Mountain View Post
What sort of "nonsense" are you thinking about?

"Because it's 2015." That line has now become an internet meme: Because it's [current year].

Granted, it's a puny example. But some of what Trudeau says in his public addresses has the depth of a sheet of paper and read like they were lifted from a Tumblr blog.
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