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Tags Canada elections , Canada politics , Elizabeth May , justin trudeau , Thomas Mulcair

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Old 31st January 2018, 04:49 PM   #321
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Quote:
This is a debate that affects a minority of homes in Canada. Most people already either have super mailboxes, or live in apartments that have their mail boxes in the lobby. Yet despite the millions of people who currently don't have door to door delivery, society has not collapsed.
Society hasn't collapsed, but CP's prospects have. It's a death spiral that could have been prevented IMO.
How could have been prevented?

By forcing people to write letters? By banning the internet?

The internet has affected the way people communicate between individuals (email). Companies are often switching to electronic bills to reduce costs. The amount of snail mail is dropping, and it has nothing to do with actions that Canada Post, the conservatives or the Liberals have any effect on.

Regardless of how you have convinced yourself that "OMG! My parents can't use superboxes!" the amount of actual snail mail people receive is going to drop, even if the mail was delivered personally door to door by members of the Swedish Bikini Team. For the vast vast majority of recipients, supermailboxes are simply not an issue. And less mail means less revenue.
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Old 31st January 2018, 04:51 PM   #322
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
In other news to the north, anyone else following the drama with the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls? Multiple resignations, lots of criticism. I knew it might be controversial, but I hadn't anticipated anything quite like this. I think it's politically interesting since the Liberals are taking heat over it from sources other than their usual opponents.
I hadn't heard anything about that. Do you have any references?

A quick googling has found a few articles about some of the cases they're looking into and some of the inquiries, but I haven't yet found anything about resignations and criticisms.
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Old 31st January 2018, 04:58 PM   #323
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
You complained about people having to bundle up specifically to go to their mailboxes. I'm pointing out that since the vast vast majority of people go out anyways, there will be times when they are already properly dressed and don't have to "bundle up" specifically to get their mail.
You're saying 'the vast majority' yes, but I'm explaining why specific people are not. This is not a trivial demographic, and it's a growing demographic.



Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
So, in other words, they have resources (in this case you) who would have the ability to pick up their mail for them on Saturday, after you finish shoveling (or mowing the lawn, or doing whatever work they need done).
Right, but I don't go out every week. I live about a 2 hour drive away. My sister lives about a 7 hour drive away.



Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Ok, so its down a hill and has no sidewalk... What is the reason they can't drive their car and stop by the mailbox when they're out running errands? Then, they only have to walk from the curb to the mailbox. I doubt they live on a freeway.
No, but it's a narrow road, and a tight corner, so they'd be blocking traffic and hazard a collision, depending on how they do it. It's a no stopping zone.



Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
You know, I know it can rain a lot on the west coast. But I doubt that the area receives solid rain, 24/7.
Of course not, but it does for literally months at a time. Last year we had a 120 day streak.



Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
And once again, as I've explained... if they are living in a home, they have already figured out how to manage chores that involve either traveling or household/yard work. If they have artificial hips or cannot do yard work themselves, they hire or get someone else to do it.
No, they don't. They have more or less abandoned exterior maintenance. They are not made of money.




Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Asking the kid who mows your lawn or shovels your driveway to walk down to the mailbox should be pretty much a no-brainer.
There is no such kid.


Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
While your parents supposedly have to walk long distances along muddy hills, I suspect that their situation is probably less common. More and more people live in high-density housing (town homes and the like), and most people live in urban areas. So overall people will have less distance to walk, and their travels will be on more solid ground. Not to mention the fact that many elderly people retire and move into condos, which already have their own super mailboxes.
Sure. So? I'm describing a nontrivial and growing portion of the market. If this was a one-in-a-million situation, I wouldn't offer it up as a problem.

My job includes market analysis for a canadian telco. I keep reminding my young educated peers that launching a complex VoIP product for consumer needs to take population demographics into account - 40% of the population cannot use email well. They're not going to configure VoIP sets.

It's not a question of what you and I would do - it's a question of what the market will do. My parents' generation is pretty much treating superboxes as the end of their relationship with CP. We can think they're making a mistake, but what I'm reporting is that it's a problem that CP seems to have glossed over or dismissed.
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Old 31st January 2018, 05:01 PM   #324
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
How could have been prevented?

By forcing people to write letters? By banning the internet?

The internet has affected the way people communicate between individuals (email). Companies are often switching to electronic bills to reduce costs. The amount of snail mail is dropping, and it has nothing to do with actions that Canada Post, the conservatives or the Liberals have any effect on.

Regardless of how you have convinced yourself that "OMG! My parents can't use superboxes!" the amount of actual snail mail people receive is going to drop, even if the mail was delivered personally door to door by members of the Swedish Bikini Team. For the vast vast majority of recipients, supermailboxes are simply not an issue. And less mail means less revenue.
Well, just as a crazy proposal... if the argument in favour of superboxes is that people can go out and check them once a week... why isn't there an argument that delivery can be staggered to once a week?

We used to get 3 canada post visits a day, they moved it down to one, it wasn't a big deal.

Considering it takes 2 weeks for CP to damage my Amazon purchases and deliver them to a neighbour, I am fine with weekly deliveries to my door at this point.
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Old 31st January 2018, 05:18 PM   #325
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Quote:
You're saying 'the vast majority' yes, but I'm explaining why specific people are not. This is not a trivial demographic, and it's a growing demographic.
You're saying 'the vast majority' yes, but I'm explaining why specific people are not. This is not a trivial demographic, and it's a growing demographic.
You are still describing a demographic that is 1) elderly and exceptionally frail, 2) still living in homes as opposed to apartments/condos, 3) in possibly rural areas where super mailboxes would be far from the house and not on a quiet street, 4) don't have the resources to actually get someone to pick up the mail.

Sounds to me like a pretty specific set of circumstances and a pretty small demographic.
Quote:
Quote:
And once again, as I've explained... if they are living in a home, they have already figured out how to manage chores that involve either traveling or household/yard work. If they have artificial hips or cannot do yard work themselves, they hire or get someone else to do it.
No, they don't. They have more or less abandoned exterior maintenance. They are not made of money.
Really? The neighbors must love that.

Sorry, the situation you're describing sounds very... peculiar. Most people take at least some pride in their home, and at least arrange to do some basic yard work. Everyone on my street (heck, everyone in my neighborhood) seems to have lawns that are at least mowed regularly, and nobody has a house that has fallen into any sort of external disrepair.
Quote:
Sure. So? I'm describing a nontrivial and growing portion of the market. If this was a one-in-a-million situation, I wouldn't offer it up as a problem.
Are you sure that its NOT a one-in-a-million situation? As I pointed out above, there seems to be a rather significant combination of factors (your parent's exceptionally frail health, the location of their house, the location of the mail box, their extremely limited income, the supposed lack of any friends or relatives in the neighborhood) which seems like it would be a situation which would not be very common.
Quote:
It's not a question of what you and I would do - it's a question of what the market will do. My parents' generation is pretty much treating superboxes as the end of their relationship with CP
I would not generalize.

My neighborhood has several older residents. I see them using the supermailbox. My girlfriend's parents have a supermailbox. Extrapolating that to "your parent's generation" may be going going a bit far.
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Old 31st January 2018, 05:20 PM   #326
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
I hadn't heard anything about that. Do you have any references?

A quick googling has found a few articles about some of the cases they're looking into and some of the inquiries, but I haven't yet found anything about resignations and criticisms.
Here's some reporting from the Star mentioning some of the high-profile resignations and some of the criticisms:
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...y-resigns.html
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...and-girls.html

The AG's dad, Bill Wilson (a hereditary chief and public figure in his own right), did an interview with the House with some pretty harsh criticism:
http://www.cbc.ca/listen/shows/the-h...gment/12736004

Indigenous groups and victim's families have been complaining that the process is too slow, that communication with families and tribal groups has been poor and that the whole thing is just badly organized and administered.

I always thought Harper was a bit of a jerk for refusing to start an inquiry and was pleased that Trudeau saw it differently, but it seems he still needs to do some more work to win over the First Nations community.

Last edited by Civet; 31st January 2018 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 31st January 2018, 05:29 PM   #327
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Quote:
How could have been prevented?
Well, just as a crazy proposal... if the argument in favour of superboxes is that people can go out and check them once a week... why isn't there an argument that delivery can be staggered to once a week?
Well one of the references I provided (the one from Canada Post itself) actually considered that option. (And it pointed out that it was favored by more Canadians as a possible solution.)

It would indeed save money, but it would only save a fraction of the money that going to super mailboxes would entail. Switching to community mailboxes would save approximately $400 million; alternate day deliveries would save only $74 million. (The savings could be increased a bit by further reducing the number of delivery days, but overall it would still save less than going to super mailboxes.)

And remember, the predicted loss for Canada post was predicted to be $1 billion in 2020. Supermailboxes might cut that almost in half; staggered delivery would only save 1/10th.

Plus, there were other issues: It would take longer to implement, and would add to operational complexity (it would require combining routes, etc.).

In either case, the Liberals have not suggested that as a solution. Instead, their suggestion is "Spend the money and the revenue will magically appear".

ETA: I also want to point out that I had discussed reducing the number of days mail was delivered on back in post 303.
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Old 31st January 2018, 05:35 PM   #328
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
Here's some reporting from the Star mentioning some of the high-profile resignations and some of the criticisms:
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...y-resigns.html
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...and-girls.html
Interesting. I hadn't heard about any of that.

I wonder how the resignations compare to other inquiries (i.e. do other ones have the same type of turnover)?

I've always been a bit suspicious of this inquiry myself. I do not deny that there is a problem with aboriginal women going missing. But, I kind of figured the cause was pretty obvious (a lack of economic prospects and social supports in some areas), and as such the inquiry might end up being a feel-good exercise that doesn't provide much in the way of benefits.
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Old 31st January 2018, 08:50 PM   #329
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Quote:
Well, just as a crazy proposal... if the argument in favour of superboxes is that people can go out and check them once a week... why isn't there an argument that delivery can be staggered to once a week?
It would indeed save money, but it would only save a fraction of the money that going to super mailboxes would entail. Switching to community mailboxes would save approximately $400 million; alternate day deliveries would save only $74 million.
Forgot to add... there is one other problem with going to once a week delivery...

If letters are delivered once a week, then parcels may be delivered once a week too. (Or, they would have to have a separate parcel delivery run, which increases costs.)

But if parcels are only delivered once a week, then parcel senders may decide that the service is too slow and seek alternate delivery companies, further driving down revenues.
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Old 31st January 2018, 09:03 PM   #330
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Originally Posted by blutoski View Post
Not sure what you mean by this. My example is my parents, who are retired. They don't go out daily, and can't shovel the driveway. If they need the driveway shoveled to go on their weekly shopping, they call me and I pop by on Saturday and do it.
You know, one other thought occurred to me....

You said your parents can neither shovel, nor walk to the super mail box. Lets say they did have door-to-door delivery; if they are unable to shovel their walk, how exactly would door-to-door delivery work? After all, I'm sure they have rules about postmen having to deliver in situations where there is excessive ice or snow, so if your parents really were stuck inside their house waiting a week or 2 for you to shovel their driveway, they likely wouldn't be getting door-to-door delivery either.

It may not apply to your parents (I believe you're in BC where winters are milder) but for those of us in the rest of Canada we have to contend with much more snow.
Quote:
I'll grab a photo if it'll help, but their superbox is not even within sight of their house. About 200m up and down a steep muddy hill, no sidewalk so they'd have to walk on the road. They don't feel safe.
Quote:
No, but it's a narrow road, and a tight corner, so they'd be blocking traffic and hazard a collision, depending on how they do it. It's a no stopping zone.
You know, here's a suggestion...

Rather than dismissing super mailboxes as a pox on Canada, something to be shunned because your parents don't find it practical, perhaps they could simply ask Canada post (or contact your MP) and ask that the box be moved to a better location... perhaps one that's not on a curve so your parents can stop the car and feel safe. Heck, maybe you can demand that Canada Post implement a rule... "All super mailboxes must be installed on streets at least 20m from a curve, or be on a road with a speed limit below 50mph"
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Old 31st January 2018, 09:15 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Interesting. I hadn't heard about any of that.

I wonder how the resignations compare to other inquiries (i.e. do other ones have the same type of turnover)?

I've always been a bit suspicious of this inquiry myself. I do not deny that there is a problem with aboriginal women going missing. But, I kind of figured the cause was pretty obvious (a lack of economic prospects and social supports in some areas), and as such the inquiry might end up being a feel-good exercise that doesn't provide much in the way of benefits.
I agree that the root causes aren't much of a mystery and have been the subject of much study. One aspect of the issue that I do think warrants examination is the handling of these cases by law enforcement. Relevant police agencies - especially the RCMP - insist that they employ the same level of effort and professionalism in cases involving Aboriginal women as they do with any other group. Many Aboriginal people disagree. I have no idea who's right, but I think a competent third-party analysis is appropriate whenever authorities have been accused of not performing their duties.
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Old 1st February 2018, 12:06 AM   #332
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
I agree that the root causes aren't much of a mystery and have been the subject of much study. One aspect of the issue that I do think warrants examination is the handling of these cases by law enforcement. Relevant police agencies - especially the RCMP - insist that they employ the same level of effort and professionalism in cases involving Aboriginal women as they do with any other group. Many Aboriginal people disagree. I have no idea who's right, but I think a competent third-party analysis is appropriate whenever authorities have been accused of not performing their duties.
The RCMP did do a study where they found that cases were solved at roughly the same rate whether the victim was aboriginal or non-aboriginal. Granted, this WAS done by the RCMP itself, so its certainly possible the RCMP is lying.

From: https://globalnews.ca/news/1335731/l...riginal-women/
While female aboriginals are over-represented as victims, the rate at which police solve the homicides of aboriginal and non-aboriginal women is almost the same, with 88 per cent of aboriginal female homicides solved versus 89 per cent for non-aboriginals.
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Old 1st February 2018, 07:48 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The RCMP did do a study where they found that cases were solved at roughly the same rate whether the victim was aboriginal or non-aboriginal. Granted, this WAS done by the RCMP itself, so its certainly possible the RCMP is lying.

From: https://globalnews.ca/news/1335731/l...riginal-women/
While female aboriginals are over-represented as victims, the rate at which police solve the homicides of aboriginal and non-aboriginal women is almost the same, with 88 per cent of aboriginal female homicides solved versus 89 per cent for non-aboriginals.
That's a very impressive solve rate. Given the RCMP's generally solid reputation, I'm inclined to believe them. I expect that many people in the Aboriginal community in Canada need to hear confirmation from a trusted third party for the same reason I'd want third-party confirmation if a US law enforcement agency was claiming no racial bias against Black people. Hopefully the inquiry will find that this is accurate and that'll be one less problem that needs to be solved. Also, if other police departments aren't performing so well, perhaps the RCMP could give them some advice on how to improve.
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Old 1st February 2018, 08:51 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Asking the kid who mows your lawn or shovels your driveway to walk down to the mailbox should be pretty much a no-brainer.
Personally I wouldn't trust my mail to a stranger, or even an acquaintance who shovels my driveway.
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Old 1st February 2018, 08:55 PM   #335
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O Canada... Now Gender Neutral

If you recall, a year or so ago, the house of commons passed a bill to make the national anthem gender neutral (replacing "all thy sons command" with "all of us command"). It was supposedly the last wish of Mariel Belanger (a long time ottawa area MP who recently died of ALS). Well, the bill sat in the senate for a while, but it has just been passed into law.

While some may favor the change, there have been criticisms. Some are traditionalists and don't want the change. (Although the fact that the anthem has been modified before in the past kind of takes away from their argument.)

The other criticism is the way the law was passed. If I remember, when the bill passed in the house of commons there were no public consultations and the bill was rushed through. Conservatives in the house are now complaining about the way the bill was passed in the senate... debate was cut short, a voice vote was used instead of the regular 'stand' so individual votes can be recorded, and there are suggestions that the government influenced what had been a private member's bill (although the Liberals claim it wasn't out of the ordinary.)

From: http://nationalpost.com/news/politic...vative-protest
Lankin’s motion had come up without fanfare on Tuesday evening and was quickly called to a vote. The Senate speaker set a time for Wednesday. But Conservative Sen. Don Plett, a passionate opponent of the bill, wanted to rise on debate, and found it was too late. The Tories’ immediate reaction was to perceive collusion between the speaker and Justin Trudeau appointees to shut down dissenting opinions. Wednesday afternoon Plett rose on a point of order to argue that he should’ve gotten a chance to speak on the “guillotine” motion, and Lankin’s move set a negative precedent....Independent Sen. Anne Cools, the dean of the Senate, called the use of a dispensing motion “a two-headed monster,” saying it breached senators’ free speech and disrupted order....“I know that what we did yesterday is absolutely in order,” Lankin argued in an interview.


There are rumors that in retaliation, the conservatives may try to delay actual government bills (such as ones on marijuana legalization.)


Still the national anthem still has references to religion (in the english, they have "god keep our land". The french version is even worse, mentioning carrying a cross and "valor steeped in faith".) I wish they would have gotten rid of that before getting rid of 'sons'.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/anth...nate-1.4513317

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Old 1st February 2018, 08:57 PM   #336
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Personally I wouldn't trust my mail to a stranger, or even an acquaintance who shovels my driveway.
Yes, because your mail was SOOO much safer being in a mailbox on your home, where pretty much anyone could have gone in and taken it.
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Old 3rd February 2018, 03:51 AM   #337
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Yes, because your mail was SOOO much safer being in a mailbox on your home, where pretty much anyone could have gone in and taken it.
They'd have to walk up to your house and go through your mailbox, which takes some guts given that they can easily be seen. That's different from having access to all (every day or every week or whatever, every piece of mail you get, this person is entrusted with) of your mail for long enough to look through it and see anything of interest.
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Old 5th February 2018, 09:32 AM   #338
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
Quote:
Yes, because your mail was SOOO much safer being in a mailbox on your home, where pretty much anyone could have gone in and taken it.
They'd have to walk up to your house and go through your mailbox, which takes some guts given that they can easily be seen.
First of all, I think pretty much by definition criminals are willing to engage in risky behavior (i.e. "have guts"). And stealing mail doesn't seem to be much riskier than (for example) shoplifting.

Secondly, I think you are greatly overstating the risk to a potential thief. Many neighborhoods are very quiet (especially during weekdays in the winter). And even if a neighbor should see someone walking up to a mailbox, they are unlikely to confront them unless they have reason to think they are suspicious. Heck, a potential theif could further deflect suspicion by bringing a bunch of junk mail and claim they were "just delivering flyers" to give them an excuse to open/look in your mail box. (And they wouldn't have to stand on your porch to look through it; just reach in, grab a hand full and take off.)

The fact is, mail theft does happen... I've seen an estimate that roughly 400,000 Americans have had their mail stolen (often by people trying to engage in identity theft.)

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=128024

And up here in Canada, many people have had parcels stolen from outside their house, even though in theory the theft would be "visible" to those outside. There's even a word for it: Porch Pirates.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa...tmas-1.4456871

On the other hand, if you get things delivered to a super mailbox, it is under lock and key, relatively secure until you decide to pick it up. I'm not saying it totally eliminates security concerns, but it does limit them a little bit.

Quote:
That's different from having access to all (every day or every week or whatever, every piece of mail you get, this person is entrusted with) of your mail for long enough to look through it and see anything of interest.
I am assuming you wouldn't just give them your super-mailbox key to keep, but you'd lend them the key when they need it and they'd return it with your mail.

And even if they did keep your mail full time.. would that really be any worse than having a home mail box? After all, if you knew them well enough, then it would not be suspicious to see them around your home and they could steal right from your mail box.
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Old 6th February 2018, 03:48 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post

I am assuming you wouldn't just give them your super-mailbox key to keep, but you'd lend them the key when they need it and they'd return it with your mail.
If this person is delivering all of my mail to me, because I'm not going to pick it up myself, I don't see how that changes things. He/she still has exclusive, and relatively private, access to my mail. Since I'm not accompanying him, he's free to go through it and look for anything of interest. That's very different from the risk that someone might try to steal from my mailbox on any particular day. They're not doing every day are they?

Quote:
And even if they did keep your mail full time.. would that really be any worse than having a home mail box? After all, if you knew them well enough, then it would not be suspicious to see them around your home and they could steal right from your mail box.
How long do you leave your mail just sitting in your mailbox? I haven't lived in Canada, or with a mailbox (I live in an apartment), for many years, but when I did we always took the mail in pretty much when it arrived. If it arrived when everyone living in the home was out, the first person to get back home would bring the mail in.
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Old 6th February 2018, 03:49 AM   #340
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I will admit that your plan does have the benefit that if you suspect that some of your mail has been stolen, or that someone has engaged in identity theft, you will know who the most likely culprit is.
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Old 6th February 2018, 09:35 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by Roboramma View Post
If this person is delivering all of my mail to me, because I'm not going to pick it up myself, I don't see how that changes things. He/she still has exclusive, and relatively private, access to my mail. Since I'm not accompanying him, he's free to go through it and look for anything of interest. That's very different from the risk that someone might try to steal from my mailbox on any particular day. They're not doing every day are they?
Well, the difference is either
- Someone you know (perhaps only marginally, perhaps very well) having access to your mail for a few minutes with a super mailbox for a few minutes a week

- Everyone else in the city, most people you don't know at all having access to your mail when delivered to your door

Personally I think the first situation presents far less of a risk.


Quote:
How long do you leave your mail just sitting in your mailbox? I haven't lived in Canada, or with a mailbox (I live in an apartment), for many years, but when I did we always took the mail in pretty much when it arrived. If it arrived when everyone living in the home was out, the first person to get back home would bring the mail in.
My supermailbox seems to get delivered to around 9-10 in the morning. That schedule might change if they had door to door delivery, but my parents mail is delivered in the morning too, so a pre-noon delivery would probably be common. On the other hand, I don't usually get home until after 6pm, and sometimes not even until after 11pm. Heck, there have even been times when I've gone away for a day or 2 without stopping my mail.

Given all that, I'd say many people (either single people, or couples where both work) could easily have their mail sitting in their mail box for 6-8 hours. That's 6-8 hours where some unknown individual can walk to your home, open your mailbox (perhaps with the pretext of "just delivering flyers") and grab a handful of your mail in order to steal your identity.
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Old 6th February 2018, 11:15 PM   #342
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So, let's move on from the Mail Debate to this: Who do we like in the Ontario PC party leadership contest, that's taking place mere months before an Ontario general election?

So far, we've got the candidate who lost the last leadership election, the candidate with even less experience than Justin Trudeau had when he became Liberal leader, and Rob Ford's stupider brother.

It's gonna be a wild ride!
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Old 7th February 2018, 10:22 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
So, let's move on from the Mail Debate to this: Who do we like in the Ontario PC party leadership contest, that's taking place mere months before an Ontario general election?

So far, we've got the candidate who lost the last leadership election, the candidate with even less experience than Justin Trudeau had when he became Liberal leader, and Rob Ford's stupider brother.

It's gonna be a wild ride!
I guess the question is who do you want to win vs. who do you think will win. Which sadly aren't always the same thing.

I'd like to see the current interim leader Vic Fedeli stay on as full time leader. He's been an MPP for around 7 years (much of that time as finance critic), and before that was Mayor of North Bay, so he has political experience. He has also had substantial business success (he started an advertising company that was voted one of the best places to work in Canada, and a long history of charity work (donating to the local college, and helping raise money for the hospital.)

Admittedly, I am biased... he is actually a family friend.

The one big problem with him is that he's from Northern Ontario, and in Ontario political power tends to rest with the Toronto area.
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Old 7th February 2018, 11:05 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
The one big problem with him is that he's from Northern Ontario, and in Ontario political power tends to rest with the Toronto area.


Well, that and he's decided not to run.

But this whole mess is almost making me a Conspiracy Theorist! There's just so many levels to it...I mean, look at Fedeli. He initially said he would run for the leadership, but then backed out later. After he got a look at the books, maybe? There have been stories this week about inflated party membership numbers, and Patrick Brown was unpopular with many members who thought he was rigging the candidate nominations. Maybe Brown took a dive to avoid this information coming out? Maybe someone else in the party wanted him gone?

And of course, this couldn't be better for Kathleen Wynne. Could you imagine anything better to derail the PC attacks against her about the hydro mess? And those two party hacks who were just convicted? It's just soooo convenient!

And then Doug Ford steps up to bat, which again, I couldn't imagine a better candidate for tanking the election. It's almost like the PCs don't want to win this one....
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Old 7th February 2018, 11:19 AM   #345
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
Re: Current PC Interim leader Vic Fedeli...
Quote:
The one big problem with him is that he's from Northern Ontario, and in Ontario political power tends to rest with the Toronto area.
Well, that and he's decided not to run.

But this whole mess is almost making me a Conspiracy Theorist! There's just so many levels to it...I mean, look at Fedeli. He initially said he would run for the leadership, but then backed out later. After he got a look at the books, maybe?
Well, the talk was that he dropped out of the previous leadership race because he just wasn't getting the support from southern Ontario. I suspect he's not running again for the same reason.
Quote:
And of course, this couldn't be better for Kathleen Wynne.
I find it so amazing... scandal after scandal by the Liberals (Broken election promise of not raising taxes, Gas plant cancellation, eHealth scandal), poor economic growth, and a very unpopular premier. The last election should have been won by the conservatives. They should be on track to win now.

And it seems like they may mess up once again, with 2 possible leadership candidates who are doing the whole "outsider" thing (because why not, it worked for Trump) and another Candidate who has her own problems.
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Old 9th February 2018, 03:48 PM   #346
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This just in! Candidate for Ontario PC Party leadership demands socialism!

Quote:
She highlighted hydro rates as a key affordability issue, and suggested the party would need to “fix the structural problem” of the system, in addition to looking for ways to get out of expensive renewable energy contracts.

Mulroney also said the general tax base may have to foot more of the cost of hydro.

“We’ve got to find solutions that move a lot of the cost to the taxpayer base, and start delivering change,” she said.

I mean, okay, it's a good idea, and there's probably no other way to fix this problem, but seriously, how is she expecting to sell this to the Sex With a Sheep Tories during a leadership campaign?
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Old 10th February 2018, 12:15 PM   #347
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So the verdict is in for the Gerald Stanley/Colten Boushie case. One of many articles here. Acquittal by an all-white jury. Comparisons to the Trayvon Martin case are being drawn. Apparently a downgrade to manslaughter was available but Stanley's acquitted of that as well. I get the impression that this case is a very, very big deal up there and that the First Nations community is feeling angry but not particularly surprised at the verdict.
I don't know Canadian law but I think the Crown can actually appeal an acquittal up there unlike here. Don't know if that's in the cards in this case.
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Old 10th February 2018, 12:20 PM   #348
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Originally Posted by Horatius View Post
This just in! Candidate for Ontario PC Party leadership demands socialism!




I mean, okay, it's a good idea, and there's probably no other way to fix this problem, but seriously, how is she expecting to sell this to the Sex With a Sheep Tories during a leadership campaign?
Sex with a sheep Tories?

Are you trying to make Canadians seem like bigoted douchebags? Or is it just that Canadians have been bigoted douchebags for so long that it no longer occurs to them to be ashamed of parading their douchebag bigotry in public?
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Old 10th February 2018, 03:34 PM   #349
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Sex with a sheep Tories?

Are you trying to make Canadians seem like bigoted douchebags? Or is it just that Canadians have been bigoted douchebags for so long that it no longer occurs to them to be ashamed of parading their douchebag bigotry in public?


Well, yes, some Canadians are bigoted douchebags, take a look at the last Federal election and the Federal Conservative Party leadership election last year, and you'll see quite a few people who would be quite happy supporting a Trump-like bigoted candidate.

But the point with this guy is that, completely aside from the question of whether or not they personally are bigots, there's also a large contingent of conservative supporters who literally don't care about anything other than taxes, and they'll support anyone who will lower taxes, without regard for any other stances the candidate takes, specifically including bigotry, crack addiction, drug dealing, or, as in the linked video, a propensity for sheep-***********.

Which is going to be a small problem for a candidate pushing an obviously socialist solution to the Ontario Hydro problem.
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Old 10th February 2018, 05:20 PM   #350
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Just listened to an interview with Doug Ford on the House. He seems to be unaware that Brad Wall has retired.
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Old 10th February 2018, 06:54 PM   #351
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
Just listened to an interview with Doug Ford on the House. He seems to be unaware that Brad Wall has retired.
I saw Milewski interview him on PnP yesterday. In the unlikely event he wins both the leadership and the Premiership I'll be looking at housing in Gatineau. That scenario just can't end well.
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Old 10th February 2018, 09:21 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
So the verdict is in for the Gerald Stanley/Colten Boushie case. One of many articles here. Acquittal by an all-white jury. Comparisons to the Trayvon Martin case are being drawn. Apparently a downgrade to manslaughter was available but Stanley's acquitted of that as well. I get the impression that this case is a very, very big deal up there and that the First Nations community is feeling angry but not particularly surprised at the verdict.
I don't know Canadian law but I think the Crown can actually appeal an acquittal up there unlike here. Don't know if that's in the cards in this case.
I would like to see the First nations offer up some sort of proof that there was racism involved before going off in all directions with their knee-jerk reactions to what may be a perfectly reasonable verdict.
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Old 10th February 2018, 09:30 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by rockinkt View Post
I would like to see the First nations offer up some sort of proof that there was racism involved before going off in all directions with their knee-jerk reactions to what may be a perfectly reasonable verdict.
From the accounts I've read I've seen no indication that racism was involved in the shooting. Guy went to confront some thieves and things escalated. I know Boushie's family felt there was some bias in the way the RCMP treated them when informing them of his death and searching their home. I don't know enough detail about that part of things to agree or disagree. Verdict looks reasonable on the murder charge. I'm not so sure about the manslaughter.

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Old 11th February 2018, 12:12 AM   #354
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Ahh isn't Justin so cute.

First, during a recent town hall meeting when someone poses a serious question about their concerns using the term "mankind" Justin admonishes them and says "peoplekind" is the correct term used in Canada.

Next he compares ISIS members entering Canada to Italians and Greeks who came here seeking a better life after the devastation of WW2. Rightly the latter aren't too pleased.

I guess his life as a drama teacher has perfected his act of being a clown.
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Old 11th February 2018, 08:47 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by ProBonoShill View Post
Ahh isn't Justin so cute.

First, during a recent town hall meeting when someone poses a serious question about their concerns using the term "mankind" Justin admonishes them and says "peoplekind" is the correct term used in Canada.
Trudeau has claimed that that was a joke on his part.

I am almost inclined to believe that it was an attempt at humor... I have made the same sort of comment in the past. But, the problem with Trudeau is that he has gone so far out of his way to portray himself as an ultra-mega feminist (with things like his balanced cabinet) that it is easy to assume he was being serious.

Of course, if Trudeau was making a joke, then he could (in theory) be blamed for not treating someone's question with full seriousness.
Quote:
Next he compares ISIS members entering Canada to Italians and Greeks who came here seeking a better life after the devastation of WW2.
This to me was a much bigger issue than the whole 'person-kind' comment.

One thing I noticed... I did a google search to try to find more details. The only mainstream article I could find that referred to the ISIS/Italian/Greek comparisons was from the Toronto Sun. Does anyone know if the issue was covered by other sources (such as the CBC, CTV, Toronto Star or Globe and Mail)?

http://torontosun.com/opinion/column...e-real-problem
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Old 11th February 2018, 10:23 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Trudeau has claimed that that was a joke on his part.

I am almost inclined to believe that it was an attempt at humor... I have made the same sort of comment in the past. But, the problem with Trudeau is that he has gone so far out of his way to portray himself as an ultra-mega feminist (with things like his balanced cabinet) that it is easy to assume he was being serious.

Of course, if Trudeau was making a joke, then he could (in theory) be blamed for not treating someone's question with full seriousness.
It was a joke. I wouldn't call it an attempt at humor, because the audience as a whole seemed to feel that the attempt was successful based on their reaction - that includes the person who asked the question, who was probably left at ease with the humor break lightening the situation, after her long rambling statement/question (which went on for about 3 minutes, and was a combination of rambling, religious cult indoctrination, and finally a question, and of which the audience was probably getting a little tired of her by then).

The reaction, which has spread out from the worst depths of the extreme alt-right, conspiracy theory, pizzagate brand of crazy, should have been completely ignored by any conservative media that expects to be treated seriously. Instead they spread the same nonsense without giving their audience the context, despite it being easily available with a couple seconds of googling.

Vice has the video here. When I clicked on it started at the relevant part, although not back as far as when the woman actually started speaking (about 1:06:30). Trudeau does go on to answer her question - whether he does a good job at that I have no idea because I care so little about the tax status of religious organizations that I can't force myself to pay attention.

I think that there is an extreme danger is the type of de-contextualizing political leaders to score crass political points. It results in politicians removing any attempts of humor from their engagement with citizens. Results in them choosing the safe road of sounding robotic, while losing their humanity. We all lose when this happens and we should fight against it.

I personally think that Trudeau is a bit of an empty shirt. Style over substance. I am ok with that if he surrounds himself with the right people and listens to their advice. I am undecided as to how well or poorly he has done at that. But the rightwing attacks, attacks generally coming from a starting point of Trudeau lacking substance, have dwindled to the lies and misrepresentations (which therefore lack substance) spread by conspiracy mongers.

The other claim is more worrisome (by default as the first claim is nonsense), although it has only appeared in the rightwing media or worse, and they, like in the case of the "peoplekind" claim, fail to provide a video of the question and answer, so while they can say that it is obvious that the questioner was talking about ISIS, there is simply no way of knowing that without the clip, and the clip in context.

Outside of the town hall clip which I have not seen, Trudeau has said that when it comes citizens who have joined ISIS and are now returning the policy is to prosecute those who have violated anti-terrorism laws, and that the government would also attempt to re-integrate them into society. People may differ strongly on how both should be done, but I am not sure how else to deal with them. Should the plan be to lock them up forever? Should the plan be revoke their citizenship? Neither would succeed in the courts. Some who joined ISIS would have realized that it is an evil organization and they could be valuable in helping combat against that ideology. Some will continue to hold those destructive beliefs and after they have finished their sentences they would be watched.

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Old 11th February 2018, 10:44 PM   #357
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Here's a version of the ISIS/immigration question and answer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVYlUjRwATw
Seems to me that Trudeau is doing the politician's classic "answer the question you wish had been asked". He's not comparing ISIS fighters to legit immigrants - he's just straight up pretending that the question wasn't about them. Seems sleazy to me, but a different flavor of sleazy than it's been characterized as by a lot of conservatives.
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Old 11th February 2018, 11:57 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
Here's a version of the ISIS/immigration question and answer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVYlUjRwATw
Seems to me that Trudeau is doing the politician's classic "answer the question you wish had been asked". He's not comparing ISIS fighters to legit immigrants - he's just straight up pretending that the question wasn't about them. Seems sleazy to me, but a different flavor of sleazy than it's been characterized as by a lot of conservatives.
First, thanks for the video.

I mostly agree with your interpretation, but I would also state that the person who asked the question made it easy for Trudeau, as his question, despite what Candice Malcom says in The Sun, was actually not overly clear (it is hard asking clear questions in front of a large audience), and when the question asker says "10, 15 20 years from now when you are letting people in with an ideology that just does not conform with what we are doing here." It could be interpreted as being about immigrants coming from Syria.

I view the threat of ISIS fighters returning to Canada as a threat from a small number of people now, vs a threat 10 - 20 years from now. When I hear people talk about their opposition to Canada allowing immigrants fleeing from Syria - and often ISIS - from coming to Canada - notice the term the person used was "letting people in" vs letting fighters/terrorists return - they are often concerned about the children becoming future terrorists. Most (probably all) of my anti-immigrant family members make no distinction between ISIS fighters and the people fleeing them. They fear individuals from both categories the same amount and it is a far larger number of people who are immigrating to Canada from Syria, than the small number who are returning from fighting in Syria and who due to their small number can probably be monitored (if not convicted).

Regardless, it is not like Trudeau does not know that people are concerned with both returning fighters and immigrants fleeing from Syria. He should have answered both.

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Old 12th February 2018, 01:07 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by Civet View Post
Verdict looks reasonable on the murder charge. I'm not so sure about the manslaughter.
I would say that the verdict was reasonable on the 2nd degree murder charge. I think that the verdict on manslaughter was unreasonable.

Every defense I have seen of Stanley on the internet has been from the standpoint of self-defence. However, the defence never argued self-defence (I would say for good reason), they argued it was an accident. I haven't seen internet supporters argue the accident defence, probably because it was completely absurd (the article you linked to discussed how the prosecution completely dismantled the accident claims). So the jury failed to convict based on a completely failed and absurd "accident" defence. I wouldn't be surprised if, like many, some of the jury members were basing their position on a self-defence bias, a defence that wasn't argued and therefore they would not have known if the actions met the standard of self-defence (which I would argue it didn't come close).

Here was the accident:

Stanley goes into the garage and grabs his gun and loads what he thought was 2 bullets, but was actually 3.
Despite having felt the need for a loaded gun, he then fired off 2 warning shots, leaving his gun empty as far as he believed.
Then he was worried that his wife might be under the victim's truck, for reasons that make zero sense.
So he approached the truck, and while approaching pulled the trigger on his gun multiple times to ensure that it was empty (with it never firing that unknown third bullet during that time).
Reaching the truck he tried to remove the keys with his left hand (have you ever tried doing that? Reaching into a vehicle with your left arm and somehow managing to get around the steering wheel and being able to remove the keys with your left hand? If you knew that your gun was empty, why not pass it to your left hand and then remove the keys with your right hand?)
Gun still in his right hand (but finger not on the trigger) and unknowingly extremely close to the back of the victims' head, the gun fired through an amazingly late "hang fire" despite all evidence showing the gun was fine.

It was an absurd defence. If people on the jury honestly thought that guns behaved like that then there should be no guns allowed in the country. Did it succeed due to racism? No one can prove that. Having spent a lot of time in Saskatchewan, Manitoba, northern Ontario, my experience would rate the racism against first nations is about as bad as the racism against African Americans in the Southern States.

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Old 12th February 2018, 03:25 PM   #360
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So I read that your handsome PM is the son of Fidel Castro after all. Would be totally funny. Apparently hasn't hit the news? Or is this fake news (it's true that Fidel's official son committed suicide a couple of days ago)?

Originally Posted by Baxter Dmitry
The suicide note left by Fidel Castro’s eldest son has rocked the Cuban nation this week, with the most astonishing revelation being the claim that Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was his half-brother and the son of the late Fidel Castro.

The handwritten note left by Fidel Castro Diaz-Balart, 68, the eldest of Fidel Castro’s children, appears to confirm the longstanding rumor in Cuba that Fidel Castro fathered Justin Trudeau after a public tryst with Margaret Trudeau in 1970.

“Castro Diaz-Balart, who had been attended by a group of doctors for several months due to a state of profound depression, committed suicide this morning,” Cubadebate website reported.

The death of the high-profile government nuclear scientist, also known as “Fidelito”, or Little Fidel, because of how much he looked like his father, stunned the nation, however it is his “explosive” suicide note that has set tongues wagging in Havana.

Amid a wide-ranging barrage of complaints, the note suggests Fidelito was angry with his late father, the revolutionary Cuban dictator. Fidelito wrote that his father, Fidel Castro, was “always comparing me unfavorably with Justin” and “dismissing my achievements in comparison to his success in Canada.“

“But what was I to do? I am Cuban. My brother is Canadian. If he was born and raised in Cuba, he would have lived in our father’s shadow forever just like me.” [...]
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