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Tags Amelia Earhart

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Old 11th September 2016, 06:02 AM   #1
William Parcher
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New evidence of Amelia Earhart as a castaway

She seems to have died on a now identified remote island after making repeated radio contact.

Originally Posted by New York Post
Did Amelia Earhart survive her plane crash? This is the most likely theory, with evidence emerging that she was making contact for days after her plane disappeared.

The International Group for Historic Aircraft Recovery (TIGHAR) believes Earhart safely landed her plane when it disappeared in 1937 and died as a castaway.

During a presentation in the US last month, TIGHAR’s Ric Gillespie backed up all of the group’s theories.

Earhart’s plane was last seen on radar on July 2, 1937...

Originally Posted by Daily Mail
She must have landed with some fuel, Gillespie says, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to use the radio.

Earhart told those listening that she was injured, but Noonan was worse.

But if the pair were alive on the 3.7-by-2.1-mile island, no-one came to find them...

Originally Posted by TIGHAR
The video covers the evidence for the Earhart Electra being on the western reef slope of Nikumaroro and TIGHAR’s plan for the 2017 Niku IX expedition to find it...

http://nypost.com/2016/09/09/amelia-...dence-suggests

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-suggests.html

https://tighar.org
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Old 11th September 2016, 06:16 AM   #2
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This isn't new, surely? I've been hearing about this for quite a while.
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Old 11th September 2016, 06:50 AM   #3
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I was drawn to headlines which could be wrong. Various headlines in recent news say "new evidence" or "new theory".
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Old 11th September 2016, 07:27 AM   #4
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I always thought she arranged the whole disappearance so she could go live in secret with Judge Crater. Years later their son, DB Cooper, would use his inherited aeronautic and criminal skills to good effect.
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Old 11th September 2016, 07:33 AM   #5
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TIGHAR has been announcing "new evidence" on a pretty regular basis for years now, IIRC. And seeking more funding.
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Old 11th September 2016, 08:03 AM   #6
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So they've looked on this island before and not found anything? I'm pretty skeptical about this too as I also seem to remember this song and dance before. They have theories but not a scrap of actual physical evidence.
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Old 11th September 2016, 08:13 AM   #7
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So they are saying that a woman in Melbourne, another woman in Texas and a girl in Florida heard her radio transmissions but not the US Navy and all the people out in the Pacific searching for her?
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Old 11th September 2016, 08:22 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by TragicMonkey View Post
I always thought she arranged the whole disappearance so she could go live in secret with Judge Crater. Years later their son, DB Cooper, would use his inherited aeronautic and criminal skills to good effect.
No silly, she was recruited by TimeWatch.
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Old 11th September 2016, 08:55 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
No silly, she was recruited by TimeWatch.
You mean Torchwood, right?
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Old 11th September 2016, 06:09 PM   #10
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I noticed in the articles referenced many repetitions of "last appeared on radar" and similar phrases regarding radar. There was no radar anywhere in the Pacific in 1937, and really no working radar outside of laboratories, certainly nothing at the time that could resolve distant single aircraft. The plane was equipped with RDF equipment, which might lead to some confusion, but this is not the same thing. This type of error reflects poorly on the expertise of the people involved, needless to say.
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Old 11th September 2016, 07:27 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Orthoptera View Post
I noticed in the articles referenced many repetitions of "last appeared on radar" and similar phrases regarding radar. There was no radar anywhere in the Pacific in 1937, and really no working radar outside of laboratories, certainly nothing at the time that could resolve distant single aircraft. The plane was equipped with RDF equipment, which might lead to some confusion, but this is not the same thing. This type of error reflects poorly on the expertise of the people involved, needless to say.
This reminds me that at least at the beginning of WW2, they used these listening stations that were essentially enlarged ears to hear the planes coming as soon as possible, because there was no radar yet.

Something like this:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...0b1557d2fe.jpg
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Old 11th September 2016, 08:03 PM   #12
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RDF was simply direction-finding using radio signals from a target. The target had to transmit a constant signal to home in on. They would literally turn the aerial of a receiver until the incoming signal was strongest to get a bearing. Another receiver would be used for basic triangulation. It was limited by the accuracy of determining signal strength and its direction. Over long distances with low strength signals, accuracy was quite low. If the signal was intermittent, even worse.

The confusion probably comes about because the British called their first primitive radar system RDF. It was not the same system as US naval RDF described above. The word "radar" was an Americanism not commonly employed until some years into WW2.
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Last edited by Norman Alexander; 11th September 2016 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 11th September 2016, 08:07 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
OMG!

That picture!

I laughed.....I cried!!

I need one of these for a friend that's hard of hearing!!
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Old 11th September 2016, 08:11 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by deaman View Post
OMG!

That picture!

I laughed.....I cried!!

I need one of these for a friend that's hard of hearing!!
New torture instead of waterboarding: getting your head strapped into one of these and then having to listen to replays of all Trump's speeches to date. Over and over and over...
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Old 11th September 2016, 08:14 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Orthoptera View Post
I noticed in the articles referenced many repetitions of "last appeared on radar" and similar phrases regarding radar. There was no radar anywhere in the Pacific in 1937, and really no working radar outside of laboratories, certainly nothing at the time that could resolve distant single aircraft. The plane was equipped with RDF equipment, which might lead to some confusion, but this is not the same thing. This type of error reflects poorly on the expertise of the people involved, needless to say.
I noticed that RADAR thing too.
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Old 11th September 2016, 10:52 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by deaman View Post
OMG!

That picture!

I laughed.....I cried!!

I need one of these for a friend that's hard of hearing!!
Do a google image search for ww2 listening devices to see more.

Here's another funny example:

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/C...an%201917a.jpg
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Old 11th September 2016, 11:50 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Puppycow View Post
Do a google image search for ww2 listening devices to see more.

Here's another funny example:

http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/C...an%201917a.jpg
That looks like a shot from La Jetée.
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Old 12th September 2016, 01:49 AM   #18
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Accoustic Mirrors
This one is a few miles from where I live
http://www.andrewgrantham.co.uk/soun...ations/boulby/

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 12th September 2016 at 01:54 AM.
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Old 12th September 2016, 01:50 AM   #19
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Or these 'War Tubas'

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Old 12th September 2016, 04:35 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
RDF was simply direction-finding using radio signals from a target. The target had to transmit a constant signal to home in on. They would literally turn the aerial of a receiver until the incoming signal was strongest to get a bearing. Another receiver would be used for basic triangulation. It was limited by the accuracy of determining signal strength and its direction. Over long distances with low strength signals, accuracy was quite low. If the signal was intermittent, even worse.

The confusion probably comes about because the British called their first primitive radar system RDF. It was not the same system as US naval RDF described above. The word "radar" was an Americanism not commonly employed until some years into WW2.
Well, yes, but not quite.

The primitive radar system you are talking about was called CRDF (Cathode Ray Direction Finding). Rather than a system using a rotatable antenna that was swung around to maximize a signal, it used a fixed Bellini-Tosi crossed loop antenna operating the deflecting plates of a cathode-ray tube. The bearing was displayed as a trace on the CRT giving a direct reading.

Of course, it still required the target to transmit, so it wasn't a primary radar, but more like a form of secondary radar.
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Old 12th September 2016, 06:03 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
You mean Torchwood, right?
Nope.
One of the initial scenarios involved recruiting her, hampered by a time travelling Nazi in an augmented Me-109.
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Old 12th September 2016, 06:10 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Nope.
One of the initial scenarios involved recruiting her, hampered by a time travelling Nazi in an augmented Me-109.
Pretty far-fetched, given that everyone knows she's currently in cryogenic suspension in the Delta quadrant.

Dave
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Old 12th September 2016, 06:18 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
Accoustic Mirrors
This one is a few miles from where I live
http://www.andrewgrantham.co.uk/soun...ations/boulby/
I was near this one last week, too (useful site, that, that's the first place I've seen it made plain that you can only visit those mirrors on an RSPB guided walk).
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Old 12th September 2016, 06:21 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
She seems to have died on a now identified remote island after making repeated radio contact.
Did she make a radio out of coconuts and Ginger's sequin dress?
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Old 12th September 2016, 06:37 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Pretty far-fetched, given that everyone knows she's currently in cryogenic suspension in the Delta quadrant.

Dave
That's a different universe, six points to peppermint.
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Old 12th September 2016, 08:15 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Well, yes, but not quite.

The primitive radar system you are talking about was called CRDF (Cathode Ray Direction Finding). Rather than a system using a rotatable antenna that was swung around to maximize a signal, it used a fixed Bellini-Tosi crossed loop antenna operating the deflecting plates of a cathode-ray tube. The bearing was displayed as a trace on the CRT giving a direct reading.

Of course, it still required the target to transmit, so it wasn't a primary radar, but more like a form of secondary radar.
This was refined in WW2 by the RN as High Frequency Direction Finding ('Huffduff' as it was known)http://uboat.net/allies/technical/hfdf.htm
http://www.naval-history.net/xGM-Tech-HFDF.htm
It used a distinctive 'Birdcage' antenna on top of the mast or on its own dedicated mast on some ships. It is censored out on a lot of wartime pictures.

It made a huge contribution in the Battle of the atlantic. As soon as a U-Boat started to transmit it's bearing was indicated as you say on a CRT. Two escorts could cross reference it and get a location fix within seconds and turn on to headings to run it down. When I was in the RN in the 80s the same set was in use on RN ships more or less unchanged from its wartime predecessors, Transistor circuits had replaced the valves at sometime in the 60s otherwise it was the same.

Last edited by Captain_Swoop; 12th September 2016 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 12th September 2016, 08:22 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Nope.
One of the initial scenarios involved recruiting her, hampered by a time travelling Nazi in an augmented Me-109.
Ianto's expertise (and smouldering good looks) claim another victim!
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Old 12th September 2016, 08:27 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
RDF was simply direction-finding using radio signals from a target. The target had to transmit a constant signal to home in on. They would literally turn the aerial of a receiver until the incoming signal was strongest to get a bearing. Another receiver would be used for basic triangulation. It was limited by the accuracy of determining signal strength and its direction. Over long distances with low strength signals, accuracy was quite low. If the signal was intermittent, even worse.
While rotating a loop antenna to give the strongest signal is the easiest mode of operation, better angular accuracy is achieved by rotating it to give a null signal. Since rotating for a maximum and rotating for a minimum give directions that differ by 90 degrees, there is ample scope for confusing one's bearing if one is inexperienced. There is also a 180 degree ambiguity between the direction the antenna is pointing and the bearing to the transmitter.
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Old 12th September 2016, 09:03 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Pretty far-fetched, given that everyone knows she's currently in cryogenic suspension in the Delta quadrant.

Dave
I had a feeling that someone would bring up that stupid episode.
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Old 12th September 2016, 09:15 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I had a feeling that someone would bring up that stupid episode.
Hey, it's Voyager. What other kind of episode was there?

Dave
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Old 12th September 2016, 11:09 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Slowvehicle View Post
Ianto's expertise (and smouldering good looks) claim another victim!
Sorry but I don't think Ianto will be appearing in TimeWatch, though he's in AITAS.
I must get around to writing up Amelia for AITAS sometime.
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Old 12th September 2016, 11:19 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by catsmate View Post
Sorry but I don't think Ianto will be appearing in TimeWatch, though he's in AITAS.
I must get around to writing up Amelia for AITAS sometime.
It's all right--everyone reacts that way to bring Ret-conned...
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Old 12th September 2016, 11:27 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Hey, it's Voyager. What other kind of episode was there?

Dave
Good point.
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Old 12th September 2016, 03:14 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Didymus View Post
While rotating a loop antenna to give the strongest signal is the easiest mode of operation, better angular accuracy is achieved by rotating it to give a null signal. Since rotating for a maximum and rotating for a minimum give directions that differ by 90 degrees, there is ample scope for confusing one's bearing if one is inexperienced. There is also a 180 degree ambiguity between the direction the antenna is pointing and the bearing to the transmitter.
Yep!
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Old 14th September 2016, 02:19 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Dave Rogers View Post
Hey, it's Voyager. What other kind of episode was there?
Well, there was the one where Captain Janeway punishes 7 of 9 with a spanking for her insubordination.

Or maybe that was a dream I had.
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Old 14th September 2016, 02:31 PM   #36
TheGoldcountry
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Well, there was the one where Captain Janeway punishes 7 of 9 with a spanking for her insubordination.

Or maybe that was a dream I had.
Well, it SHOULD have been an episode.
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Old 14th September 2016, 03:32 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Well, there was the one where Captain Janeway punishes 7 of 9 with a spanking for her insubordination.

Or maybe that was a dream I had.
... we all had.

Dave
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Old 14th September 2016, 05:14 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Well, there was the one where Captain Janeway punishes 7 of 9 with a spanking for her insubordination.

Or maybe that was a dream I had.

Sheesh, if I ever had a dream about Seven of Nine, "spanking" wouldn't be the first thing that comes to mind.

As far as "Trek" women go, T'Pol is more my cup of tea anyway!
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Old 14th September 2016, 06:03 PM   #39
Norman Alexander
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Originally Posted by smartcooky View Post
Well, yes, but not quite.

The primitive radar system you are talking about was called CRDF (Cathode Ray Direction Finding). Rather than a system using a rotatable antenna that was swung around to maximize a signal, it used a fixed Bellini-Tosi crossed loop antenna operating the deflecting plates of a cathode-ray tube. The bearing was displayed as a trace on the CRT giving a direct reading.

Of course, it still required the target to transmit, so it wasn't a primary radar, but more like a form of secondary radar.
That was one system prior to actual "radar" using reflected signals. Watson-Watt had a primitive system going in 1935, with fixed aerials. Wiki is reasonably OK with some details.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...United_Kingdom
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Old 14th September 2016, 08:12 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Norman Alexander View Post
That was one system prior to actual "radar" using reflected signals. Watson-Watt had a primitive system going in 1935, with fixed aerials. Wiki is reasonably OK with some details.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histor...United_Kingdom
Right, but I don't believe for a second that any kind of primary radar was in use in the Pacific in 1937, and especially not tracking Earhart & Noonan's Electra.

When the articles say the aircraft "disappeared off radar", they will almost certainly be talking about CRDF, HFDF or some other variant of that system.
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