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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , George Papadopoulos , Paul Manafort , Robert Mueller , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections

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Old 28th October 2017, 11:00 AM   #41
dudalb
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Originally Posted by mgidm86 View Post
Someone will be arrested for something Monday. Today is Friday. Cool thread.
Keep Drinking the Kool aid.
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Old 28th October 2017, 11:03 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Agreed, merge it into the ongoing Russian Scandal thread.
I think we should wait to find out who gets charged and for what before we merge or not.
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Old 28th October 2017, 11:42 AM   #43
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I'm hoping for a Manafort arrest. Pass the popcorn.
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Old 28th October 2017, 12:03 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by portlandatheist View Post
I'm hoping for a Manafort arrest. Pass the popcorn.
I have a bet with my cousin.
I have $5 on Manafort
He has $5 on Don Jr.

And, imagine if it is Don Jr. Just imagine what Don Sr. will do. Imagine the twitter tirades. That will be quite the something.
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Old 28th October 2017, 12:10 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Err... if you want to treat this as proof of that, you're a little premature. We'd need to see a conviction on rather clear and undeniable grounds to support that claim. Either way, it's good to hear that action's coming, but we'll see what comes of it and whether Trump tries to use the pardon irresponsibly, again.
In order to get arrest warrants, Mueller would have to convince a Grand Jury AND a judge there is sufficient legal evidence to issue a warrant. That is an extremely high standard of evidence. The GOP keeps pushing "nothing there". That claim is forever trashed. At least one Grand Jury and a sitting judge disagree.
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Old 28th October 2017, 12:14 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
I think we should wait to find out who gets charged and for what before we merge or not.
Keep in mind that it probably won't be the only arrests (if any happen exactly on Monday). This is just Round One.
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Old 28th October 2017, 02:40 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
I have a bet with my cousin.
I have $5 on Manafort
He has $5 on Don Jr.

And, imagine if it is Don Jr. Just imagine what Don Sr. will do. Imagine the twitter tirades. That will be quite the something.
Fine by me!!!! Keep him playing the idiot tool!!!!!!
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Old 28th October 2017, 04:08 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
In order to get arrest warrants, Mueller would have to convince a Grand Jury AND a judge there is sufficient legal evidence to issue a warrant. That is an extremely high standard of evidence. The GOP keeps pushing "nothing there". That claim is forever trashed. At least one Grand Jury and a sitting judge disagree.
I’m sure you’ll feel vindicated even if it’s a process charge. When it happens, it would be great to see President Trump pardon the charged quickly. That way we can see the loser leftists meltdown all over again.
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Old 28th October 2017, 04:39 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
When it happens, it would be great to see President Trump pardon the charged quickly. That way we can see the loser leftists meltdown all over again.
Don't you find justice important at all? Is it really paramount to just piss your opponents off rather than see the country run properly? I'm asking a serious question here and I would like a serious, detailed answer.
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Old 28th October 2017, 04:44 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Don't you find justice important at all? Is it really paramount to just piss your opponents off rather than see the country run properly? I'm asking a serious question here and I would like a serious, detailed answer.

For some people, apparently, America's only true purpose in existing is to punish their opponents. If it takes the sacrifice of its founding principles, so be it.

It's disheartening to see someone be so small...
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Old 28th October 2017, 05:06 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
In order to get arrest warrants, Mueller would have to convince a Grand Jury AND a judge there is sufficient legal evidence to issue a warrant. That is an extremely high standard of evidence. The GOP keeps pushing "nothing there". That claim is forever trashed. At least one Grand Jury and a sitting judge disagree.
Maybe. I think that you might underestimate the GOP's appreciation of fact, though. After all, a whole lot of them still buy into birtherism.
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Old 28th October 2017, 05:15 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Don't you find justice important at all? Is it really paramount to just piss your opponents off rather than see the country run properly? I'm asking a serious question here and I would like a serious, detailed answer.
Well, it’s simply fun to watch the reactions of people who couldn’t care less about the law. They ask for a serious answer when it’s quite obvious when one is just having a little fun with their emotions.
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Old 28th October 2017, 05:18 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Cl1mh4224rd View Post
For some people, apparently, America's only true purpose in existing is to punish their opponents. If it takes the sacrifice of its founding principles, so be it.

It's disheartening to see someone be so small...
Lol
“The sacrifice of its founding principles”

Do people on the left even like our founding principles?
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Old 28th October 2017, 05:43 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol
“The sacrifice of its founding principles”

Do people on the left even like our founding principles?
I think you should start a thread detailing what those are in your view and how they relate to the current moron in chief.
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Old 28th October 2017, 06:18 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by logger View Post
Lol
“The sacrifice of its founding principles”

Do people on the left even like our founding principles?
Yes. Does that answer make you happy? If there is not an answer you believe other than no, the you shouldn't waste my time asking the question.

Last edited by BobTheCoward; 28th October 2017 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 28th October 2017, 06:25 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
... That is an extremely high standard of evidence.
It's not as high as you think. An indictment would be enough for a judge to issue an arrest warrant. I'm not sure there's even any discretion there.

Arrest Warrant or Summons on an Indictment or Information


The indictment itself establishes probable cause.

Last edited by Minoosh; 28th October 2017 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 28th October 2017, 06:40 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
Don't you find justice important at all? Is it really paramount to just piss your opponents off rather than see the country run properly? I'm asking a serious question here and I would like a serious, detailed answer.
For some, the means justify the ends. It doesn't matter what the end result it, as long as 'The Other' is upset. trump could personally start nuclear Armageddon, and their response would be 'Ell oh Ell! Look how upset the leftists are!'

Oh well.
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Old 28th October 2017, 06:44 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Yes. Does that answer make you happy? If there is not an answer you believe other than no, the you shouldn't waste my time asking the question.
I don't think that he actually cares. He just likes seeing librul heds asplode. Yes, though, the left does largely value most of the founding principles, like the right also values most of the founding principles.

Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
It's not as high as you think. An indictment would be enough for a judge to issue an arrest warrant. I'm not sure there's even any discretion there.

Arrest Warrant or Summons on an Indictment or Information


The indictment itself establishes probable cause.
Adding on the grand jury helps with that, though. Even then, though, it still probably doesn't require as much as a conviction would.
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Old 28th October 2017, 06:58 PM   #59
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If nothing big comes of this, at least it caused Roger Stone to get bounced from Twitter. That's pretty funny. Sorry, trumpkins
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Old 28th October 2017, 07:08 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Beerina View Post
Are those threads really needed? Why this fetish for bundling many disparate topics under a single thread?


And now, my witty, cutting commentary regarding the topic of this thread, lest I be accused of derailing:
There is a thread on Trump and all things Russia, and another thread on the rest of Trump things. How is this not part of Trump and all things Russia?

However, it's too late now and soon this will become the Trump and all things Russia thread which was soon to need a new thread in the series anyway. So oh well.

But riddle me this, what topics on Trump and all things Russia will be off-topic here and how will we know?
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Old 28th October 2017, 07:11 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post
I have a bet with my cousin.
I have $5 on Manafort
He has $5 on Don Jr.

And, imagine if it is Don Jr. Just imagine what Don Sr. will do. Imagine the twitter tirades. That will be quite the something.
It would certainly be more exciting.
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Old 28th October 2017, 07:14 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
In order to get arrest warrants, Mueller would have to convince a Grand Jury AND a judge there is sufficient legal evidence to issue a warrant. That is an extremely high standard of evidence. The GOP keeps pushing "nothing there". That claim is forever trashed. At least one Grand Jury and a sitting judge disagree.
Umm, I don't think you need a judge for an arrest warrant, the prosecuting attorneys issue official charges. And it's pretty easy for the prosecutor to get a Grand Jury to indict. They present a case with no defense allowed. No one is there to object to evidence or questioning.
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Old 28th October 2017, 07:53 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
There is a thread on Trump and all things Russia, and another thread on the rest of Trump things. How is this not part of Trump and all things Russia?

However, it's too late now and soon this will become the Trump and all things Russia thread which was soon to need a new thread in the series anyway. So oh well.

But riddle me this, what topics on Trump and all things Russia will be off-topic here and how will we know?
Depends on what the charges actually are. The Trumps (plural) helping the Iranian Guard launder money through the Trump Tower in Azerbaijan, for example, would likely not be as much about Trump's relationships to Russia. The President himself is nigh immune to charges, but the rest of the family is not.
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Old 28th October 2017, 08:25 PM   #64
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Is that hypothetical or did that happen?
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Old 28th October 2017, 08:30 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Depends on what the charges actually are. The Trumps (plural) helping the Iranian Guard launder money through the Trump Tower in Azerbaijan, for example, would likely not be as much about Trump's relationships to Russia. The President himself is nigh immune to charges, but the rest of the family is not.
Your hypothetical is not helpful.
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Old 28th October 2017, 08:35 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Your hypothetical is not helpful.
You may want to rethink that. Reading up about it, it seems legit to me. Trump is nothing if not brazen.

Nothing that has happened so far seems out of place for a guy like that. Everything is plausible with a piece of trash like trump.
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Old 28th October 2017, 08:47 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Is that hypothetical or did that happen?
Donald Trump's worst deal

The New Yorker is working hard to show Trump family connections to shady real estate deals.
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Old 28th October 2017, 08:49 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
Donald Trump's worst deal

The New Yorker is working hard to show Trump family connections to shady real estate deals.
thanks for the link.
I did read that after my comment. Couldn't link from my phone.
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Old 28th October 2017, 08:49 PM   #69
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Dup

Last edited by Minoosh; 28th October 2017 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 28th October 2017, 08:50 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
You may want to rethink that. Reading up about it, it seems legit to me. Trump is nothing if not brazen.

Nothing that has happened so far seems out of place for a guy like that. Everything is plausible with a piece of trash like trump.
Not the point.
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Old 28th October 2017, 08:58 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Umm, I don't think you need a judge for an arrest warrant, the prosecuting attorneys issue official charges. And it's pretty easy for the prosecutor to get a Grand Jury to indict. They present a case with no defense allowed. No one is there to object to evidence or questioning.
Yes, you do need a judge. Only a court can issue a warrant. Prosecutors can file charges, but not issue warrants.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_4
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Old 28th October 2017, 09:02 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
Depends on what the charges actually are. The Trumps (plural) helping the Iranian Guard launder money through the Trump Tower in Azerbaijan, for example, would likely not be as much about Trump's relationships to Russia. The President himself is nigh immune to charges, but the rest of the family is not.
He may be nigh immune from being removed, but he can still be charged.

http://www.abajournal.com/news/artic..._the_answer_i/
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Old 28th October 2017, 09:03 PM   #73
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
That's what I was thinking. At this point, even if the most serious charge is theft of a single paperclip from office supplies - it is still more productive than the endless Hillary investigations.
- “The nature of the evidence is irrelevant; it's the seriousness of the charge that matters.”-
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Old 28th October 2017, 09:05 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
you lost me
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Old 28th October 2017, 09:12 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Aridas View Post
I don't think that he actually cares. He just likes seeing librul heds asplode.
Keep in mind the fact that the troll army is large and still active.
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Old 28th October 2017, 09:15 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
thanks for the link.
I did read that after my comment. Couldn't link from my phone.
I don't know if Mueller's investigations delve deep into Trump family real estate deals, but the New Yorker helpfully points to U.S. laws possibly broken. Also per the New Yorker, Trump was upset because American firms weren't allowed to bribe foreign governments. (ED: That article was recent, not connected to Azerbaijan deal, but a conversation Trump supposedly had with SOS Tillerson)

Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Yes, you do need a judge. Only a court can issue a warrant. Prosecutors can file charges, but not issue warrants.
I believe the judge's action is basically a rubber stamp. Do not know for sure at federal level, but the arrest warrant can basically be notifying the defendant to check in with a booking facility. People aren't necessarily taken into custody. While they're being booked, they technically are in custody - they're not free to turn around and leave.

As soon as I heard this story I had a hunch - nothing but a hunch - that whoever is being arrested already has a deal with Mueller. If that's true there would be certain implications. That's just speculation but there's not a whole lot else to do until Monday.

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Old 28th October 2017, 09:26 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
As soon as I heard this story I had a hunch - nothing but a hunch - that whoever is being arrested already has a deal with Mueller.
Yeah, I had the same thought. Rather than run out and arrest someone, sometimes they go through lawyers and agree on a time and place for a person to turn themselves in. Especially if it is a white-collar crime and the accused is a rich white guy. Sometimes they can avoid being seen by the press that way.

My guess is that the person who is to be arrested already knows, has been in contact with the FBI (via lawyers) and and has agreed to turn himself in.

If this is all true. I hope its true and I pray it isn't, if that makes any sense. I'd rather have a dumb, incompetent buffoon as president than an intelligent, calculating criminal.
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Old 28th October 2017, 10:18 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by ChristianProgressive View Post
Yes, you do need a judge. Only a court can issue a warrant. Prosecutors can file charges, but not issue warrants.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/frcrmp/rule_4
You are conflating things.

Criminal Charges: How Cases Get Started
Quote:
A criminal case usually gets started with a police arrest report. The prosecutor then decides what criminal charges to file, if any. Some cases go to a preliminary hearing, where a judge decides if there is enough evidence to proceed. Cases can also start when a grand jury issues a criminal indictment.
Note "some".
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Old 28th October 2017, 10:18 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
If this is all true. I hope its true and I pray it isn't, if that makes any sense. I'd rather have a dumb, incompetent buffoon as president than an intelligent, calculating criminal.
He could very well be a calculating criminal buffoon.
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Old 29th October 2017, 02:03 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Your hypothetical is not helpful.
It does, however, seem to be within the potential scope of Mueller's investigation and serves as one of the examples of potential issues that are not directly related to Russia, but could be branched out to even if the investigation started with a focus on Russia. Money laundering in general is a rather likely charge for a number of the people that Trump's had around him, though, whether it be for the Russians or for others.
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