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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , donald trump , lying charges , Russia conspiracies , Trump controversies , Trump-Russia connections , US-Russia relations , vladimir putin

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Old 21st December 2017, 11:33 AM   #41
Stacko
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
If this report is true, then Trump was obstructing justice when he fired Comey.
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Old 21st December 2017, 11:39 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
If this report is true, then Trump was obstructing justice when he fired Comey.
Not every crime is required to be investigated. As chief executive, these issues are something for the president to navigate even if he knows the parties. It isn't obvious that it is obstruction.
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Old 21st December 2017, 12:01 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
If this report is true, then Trump was obstructing justice when he fired Comey.
Of course he was and the campaign was colluding (conspiring if you will) when Donny Jr emailed a Russian lawyer drooling over getting dirt on Hillary.

But for some reason, most Democratic legislators are saying wait and see, and we don't have proof yet.

Wimps.
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Old 21st December 2017, 12:03 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Of course he was and the campaign was colluding (conspiring if you will) when Donny Jr emailed a Russian lawyer drooling over getting dirt on Hillary.

But for some reason, most Democratic legislators are saying wait and see, and we don't have proof yet.

Wimps.
Because you don't have proof.
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Old 21st December 2017, 12:22 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
If this report is true, then Trump was obstructing justice when he fired Comey.
Seth Abramson has been saying for a while that it was obstruction.

How the letter detailing the reasons for firing Comey combined with Trump's claim to have fired him because of "that Russia thing" demonstrate obstruction of justice

How admitting he knew Flynn had lied to the FBI demonstrates obstruction of justice
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Old 21st December 2017, 06:14 PM   #46
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FBI’s McCabe stonewalls on Trump Dossier

Originally Posted by Alexander Mercouris
[...] it is not only the FBI’s actions during the 2016 which are now open to criticism and scrutiny. It is also McCabe’s own individual actions since his central role in launching the Russiagate investigation and in ordering the surveillance of Hillary Clinton’s opponents is now becoming increasingly clear. Suffice to say that the discussion referred to by Peter Strzok in his ‘insurance’ email to his love Lisa Page took place in McCabe’s office.

It is not surprising therefore that McCabe continues to profess his belief in a Dossier he all but admits the FBI cannot verify. It is also not surprising that he conveniently ‘forgot’ that the Dossier upon which his whole career and reputation and that of the FBI now depends was paid for by the DNC and the Hillary Clinton campaign.

Meanwhile news from London must be making McCabe – and Robert Mueller and members of his team – still more concerned.

It turns out that over the course of a libel action brought against him by a Russian businessman mentioned in the Trump Dossier, Christopher Steele its compiler is now starting to row back on some of its claims. [...]
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Old 22nd December 2017, 04:05 AM   #47
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I'm shocked - Childlike Empress has linked to a story, and it's from a Russian propaganda site, authored by a Russian propagandist. Evidence for the above claims can be found on the previous page.

Well, here is a story covering the same events, but not from someone whose job is to spout Kremlin propaganda.

As for the story Empress has linked to, well, to pick just one example of its honesty in reporting at random, let's look at this portion quoted from the Washington Times about the Steele Dossier:

Quote:
In the dossier, [Steele] stated without reservation that an “extensive conspiracy between Trump’s campaign team and the Kremlin” existed.
Well, if you read the text of the Steele Dossier (pdf)* you'll find the phrase "extensive conspiracy between Trump's campaign team and the Kremlin" twice. Are either of those two occasions "without reservation"? Let's see:

Quote:
FURTHER INDICATIONS OF EXTENSIVE CONSPIRACY BETWEEN CAMPAIGN TEAM AND THE KREMLIN
"Indications"? That's not "without reservation", is it? How about the sentence under that headline?

Quote:
Further evidence of extensive conspiracy between campaign team and Kremlin, sanctioned at highest levels and involving Russian diplomatic staff based in the US
"Further evidence"? That's not "without reservation", either, is it?

So this article is focusing on what politicians from both sides of the aisle have said was not the main focus of the interviews, is falsely claiming that the Steele Dossier is the only evidence on which the investigation is based, and is repeating lies about the contents of the Dossier. I'm shocked at the lack of honesty from a website that disseminates Kremlin propaganda authored by a Kremlin propagandist.

*Searchable text version here.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 04:13 AM   #48
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^ see what he's doing, folks? Franticly backpedaling from the whole "Russia gate" narrative while blaming "Russian propagandists" for his confusion. Boomerang, going whoosh as I've told you for weeks if not months now. To funny if not for the broader context. Better get in line, "skeptics". The direction is backwards.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 04:29 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
^ see what he's doing, folks?
Pointing out when you post Russian propaganda? Referring to the evidence, which you have been unable to counter, that you're posting Russian propaganda? Pointing out how the Russian propaganda you post deviates from the truth?

Yeah, I think people do see that.

Quote:
Franticly backpedaling from the whole "Russia gate" narrative while blaming "Russian propagandists" for his confusion.
One sentence containing two completely different statements, both of which you've pulled out of your arse.

If you think I'm doing any kind of "backpedaling" then can you link to any statement I've made which I've contradicted in my previous post? Or, indeed, any statement I've made which is in any way mitigated by my previous post?

The answer is no, you can't, because you've just made that up.

And if you can take someone pointing out factual errors, with reference to the actual source material rather than the lies disseminated by the Kremlin propaganda you keep posting, as an indication of "confusion" then, well, it's no wonder your grasp on other facts is so tenuous.

Still, you wanted to know what an ad hominem was: and now you know. What you did in that post was to attack my character rather than address my arguments. So there you go.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 04:43 AM   #50
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Now give it a rest. Maybe after that you'll be more able to understand the situation.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 04:58 AM   #51
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Another ad hominem, still no substance.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 05:46 AM   #52
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Now this Reagan insider seems to have been turned into a commie as well:

The RussiaGate Witch-Hunt---The Deep State's "Insurance Policy"

Originally Posted by David Stockman
There was a sinister plot to meddle in the 2016 election, after all. But it was not orchestrated from the Kremlin; it was an entirely homegrown affair conducted from the inner sanctums---the White House, DOJ, the Hoover Building and Langley----of the Imperial City.

Likewise, the perpetrators didn't speak Russian or write in the Cyrillic script. In fact, they were lifetime beltway insiders occupying the highest positions of power in the US government.

Here are the names and rank of the principal conspirators: John Brennan, CIA director; Susan Rice, National Security Advisor; Samantha Power, UN Ambassador; James Clapper, Director of National Intelligence; James Comey, FBI director; Andrew McCabe, Deputy FBI director; Sally Yates, deputy Attorney General, Bruce Ohr, associate deputy AG; Peter Strzok, deputy assistant director of FBI counterintelligence; Lisa Page, FBI lawyer; and countless other lessor and greater poobahs of Washington power, including President Obama himself.

To a person, the participants in this illicit cabal shared the core trait that made Obama such a blight on the nation's well-being. To wit, he never held an honest job outside the halls of government in his entire adult life; and as a careerist agent of the state and practitioner of its purported goods works, he exuded a sanctimonious disdain for everyday citizens who make their living along the capitalist highways and by-ways of America.

The above cast of election-meddlers, of course, comes from the same mold. If Wikipedia is roughly correct, just these 10 named perpetrators have punched in about 300 years of post-graduate employment---and 260 of those years (87%) were on government payrolls or government contractor jobs. [...]
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Old 22nd December 2017, 05:58 AM   #53
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Where are you getting these crazy fringe stories out of nowhere? Do they email you a list? Do you pick randomly from the list whenever you need to change the subject, or is there a specified order?
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Old 22nd December 2017, 06:07 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
Where are you getting these crazy fringe stories out of nowhere? Do they email you a list? Do you pick randomly from the list whenever you need to change the subject, or is there a specified order?

I'm mostly using a professional newsfeed reader to catch up with what is going on, so there is few distraction with crappy design or adverts directed at morons. In this case, the article was carried by a subscribed site for adult geopolitical analysts called "Strategic Culture Foundation", which might have some contacts to Russia, so I figured I would post the original article on the guy's website and have a LOL with the introduction (which totally contradicts even the snippet, I hope you've noticed).
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Old 22nd December 2017, 06:14 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
<snip infantile content>

Now give it a rest. Maybe after that you'll be more able to understand the situation.
As I read it, SB understands the situation, and s/he has done a good job demonstrating that you're foisting brazen propaganda. What else is new?
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Old 22nd December 2017, 06:21 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
What else is new?

Certainly not my assessment of your assessments. Another useless click.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 06:22 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I'm almost tired of being right all the time.
Yeah, all that winning can sure tire you out.

Even Donald Trump, whose legendary endurance eclipses everyone this side of Kim Jong Un, has begun to grow tired of winning. Back when Trump was fresh, before he Made America Great Again, he would have celebrated his 128-9-35 victory in the UN with an exuberantly joyful tweet ordering his State Department and other swampers to defund the UN and the 128 losers of that vote.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 06:30 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I'm mostly using a professional newsfeed reader to catch up with what is going on, so there is few distraction with crappy design or adverts directed at morons. In this case, the article was carried by a subscribed site for adult geopolitical analysts called "Strategic Culture Foundation", which might have some contacts to Russia, so I figured I would post the original article on the guy's website and have a LOL with the introduction (which totally contradicts even the snippet, I hope you've noticed).
Are you saying you posted the article because you wanted everybody to laugh at how ridiculously stupid it is? If so, then well done.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 06:36 AM   #59
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Apparently the Congressional dissatisfaction with the Russia investigations is not shared by the American public. I'm sure it's because we're unfairly cut off from the stooges and propagandists. Yeah, that's it.


http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/21/po...oll/index.html
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Old 22nd December 2017, 06:54 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Foolmewunz View Post
Apparently the Congressional dissatisfaction with the Russia investigations is not shared by the American public. I'm sure it's because we're unfairly cut off from the stooges and propagandists. Yeah, that's it.


http://edition.cnn.com/2017/12/21/po...oll/index.html
I think the takeaway from that is that a third disapprove. I think that's a worrying testimony to how effective the disinformation campaign has been.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 06:55 AM   #61
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Transition team sought to encrypt Flynn's communications.

Quote:
Days before a series of phone calls in late-2016 between Michael Flynn and Russia’s then-ambassador to the United States, members of the presidential transition team began inquiring about ways to encrypt Flynn’s conversations, discussing with the director of national intelligence’s office by email a range of technologies that would enable secure communications.

Among the recommendations apparently approved of by the General Services Administration (GSA)—the agency charged with overseeing the orderly transfer of power after a new president is elected—was the use of Signal, a popular encrypted messaging app that allows users to exchange messages that can self-destruct.


These internal conversations, made public under the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), add further context to internal deliberations of the Trump transition team ahead of moments that have become touchstones of the ongoing Department of Justice (DOJ) investigation into Russia’s 2016 election interference. The emails also suggest that, while certain correspondence may have been recently acquired by the DOJ’s special counsel’s office, other potential sensitive conversations pertaining to Flynn’s communication with Russian officials may be forever unobtainable.

Flynn, who served as President Donald Trump’s national security advisor for less than a month and resigned after it was revealed he had misled Vice President Mike Pence and others in the White House about his conversations with the Russian ambassador, pleaded guilty this month to lying to the FBI. Flynn phoned then-Russian ambassador, Sergey Kislyak, multiple times on December 29th in an effort to undermine American sanctions against Russia imposed by the Obama administration in response to cyberattacks during the election, according to a plea agreement.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 08:13 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Now this Reagan insider seems to have been turned into a commie as well:

The RussiaGate Witch-Hunt---The Deep State's "Insurance Policy"
Speaking of conspiracy theories, a lot of people have noted that much of the pro-Trump rhetoric (including Trump's own) uses many of the same techniques as Russian propaganda (e.g. conspiracy theories and attacks on legitimate news sources) to create their alternate reality. As a skeptic, I think that might be a coincidence, or it might just be that they have noted how effective such techniques are on "low-information voters" (a euphemism).
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Old 22nd December 2017, 08:17 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Speaking of conspiracy theories, a lot of people have noted that much of the pro-Trump rhetoric (including Trump's own) uses many of the same techniques as Russian propaganda (e.g. conspiracy theories and attacks on legitimate news sources) to create their alternate reality. As a skeptic, I think that might be a coincidence, or it might just be that they have noted how effective such techniques are on "low-information voters" (a euphemism).

You wouldn't type up such a ridiculous circular reasoning scrap yard if you were a skeptic worth the label.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 08:54 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
I'm mostly using a professional newsfeed reader to catch up with what is going on, so there is few distraction with crappy design or adverts directed at morons. In this case, the article was carried by a subscribed site for adult geopolitical analysts called "Strategic Culture Foundation", which might have some contacts to Russia, so I figured I would post the original article on the guy's website and have a LOL with the introduction (which totally contradicts even the snippet, I hope you've noticed).
So you're getting them from a Russian propaganda site, but since squeegee was accusing you of spreading Russian propaganda, you bothered to trace it back to the original link to try and disguise its intent, and the article itself is so poor an excuse that I made you walk it back to "LOL I'm joking" just by bringing it up?

No I hadn't noticed. I don't read links you post because of stuff like the above.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 08:58 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Kinda cute how much energy you put into deceiving yourself, btw. Give it time.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 09:03 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
Now this Reagan insider seems to have been turned into a commie as well:

The RussiaGate Witch-Hunt---The Deep State's "Insurance Policy"
Look out !!! The deep state is coming for you !! BWahahahhahhha
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Old 22nd December 2017, 09:28 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You wouldn't type up such a ridiculous circular reasoning scrap yard if you were a skeptic worth the label.
It was an observation, not an argument. It's also been observed that a lot of Republicans who have said worse things about Trump than Strzok are now shamelessly kissing Trump's butt. Since I'm a skeptic, I'm not yet convinced that kompromat has anything to do with that.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 10:37 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
I think the takeaway from that is that a third disapprove. I think that's a worrying testimony to how effective the disinformation campaign has been.

It's the same core group of Trump dittoheads who have always supported anything he says or does with unquestioning approval.

~34% of all voters seems to be Trump's rock bottom so far. Nothing, no amount of irrefutable evidence seems to sway them from their loyalty. They cling to it like a life preserver.

When we see that group eroding significantly for any length of time, then we will see the 'me too' Republicans starting to jump ship, but until then it is too tempting a plum for any GOP pol to turn their backs on.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 10:40 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by Childlike Empress View Post
You wouldn't type up such a ridiculous circular reasoning scrap yard if you were a skeptic worth the label.

Please pay attention, folks.

That is the right way to do an ad hominem fallacy.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 10:47 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by quadraginta View Post
When we see that group eroding significantly for any length of time, then we will see the 'me too' Republicans starting to jump ship, but until then it is too tempting a plum for any GOP pol to turn their backs on.
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Republicans warn Trump of 2018 bloodbath

Originally Posted by Politico
The backstage talks provide a window into how those closest to Trump are bracing for a possible bloodbath in the 2018 midterms, which could obliterate the Republican congressional majorities and paralyze the president’s legislative agenda. The potential for a Democratic wave has grown after Republican losses this fall in Virginia, New Jersey and Alabama, and as the president’s approval ratings have plummeted to the 30s.

In recent weeks, some of the president’s advisers have taken it upon themselves to warn him directly about the fast-deteriorating political environment. White House officials have convened to discuss ways to improve his standing with suburban voters. And on Wednesday, the president met with Kelly, political director Bill Stepien, communications director Hope Hicks, former Trump campaign manager Corey Lewandowski and Brad Parscale, Trump’s digital director in the 2016 campaign, to discuss the political landscape. Lewandowski forcefully raised concerns about the party’s efforts, according to one attendee and another person briefed on the meeting.

<snip>
Among GOP leaders, however, there is widespread concern heading into 2018. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) has said privately that both chambers could be lost in November. House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) has told donors that he fears a wave of swing district Republican lawmakers could retire rather than seek reelection.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 11:01 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Wow, a national security advisor that doesn't communicate using encrypted methods?

How dumb are these jokers?
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Old 22nd December 2017, 11:03 AM   #72
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Speaking of conspiracy theories, a lot of people have noted that much of the pro-Trump rhetoric (including Trump's own) uses many of the same techniques as Russian propaganda (e.g. conspiracy theories and attacks on legitimate news sources) to create their alternate reality. As a skeptic, I think that might be a coincidence, or it might just be that they have noted how effective such techniques are on "low-information voters" (a euphemism).
Trump is one of those CTers. I don't think he's masterminding a propaganda campaign. But given all that Dear Leader worship by the GOP legislators the other day, I'm guessing they know full well how to manipulate Dear Leader and his followers.

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Old 22nd December 2017, 11:17 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Trump is one of those CTers. I don't think he's masterminding a propaganda campaign. But given all that Dear Leader worship by the GOP legislators the other day, I'm guessing they know full well how to manipulate Dear Leader and his followers.
Given the increased volume of Mueller/FBI/DOJ corruption accusations emanating from GOP as a whole since the Flynn indictment, I have little doubt that a propaganda campaign is indeed being "masterminded". Whether it's Trump personally or his minions doing the masterminding is but a detail.

Add: Oh, different context. I wonder to what extent the boot-lickers are playing him.
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Last edited by varwoche; 22nd December 2017 at 11:18 AM.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 02:18 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy View Post
So you're getting them from a Russian propaganda site, but since squeegee was accusing you of spreading Russian propaganda, you bothered to trace it back to the original link to try and disguise its intent, and the article itself is so poor an excuse that I made you walk it back to "LOL I'm joking" just by bringing it up?

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Old 22nd December 2017, 02:26 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by varwoche View Post
....
Add: Oh, different context. I wonder to what extent the boot-lickers are playing him.
Except for the whacko Evangelical, Pence, I don't wonder at all.

Then there are those probably just hanging out hoping for handouts like Nunes. He doesn't seem smart enough to be playing Trump.
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Old 22nd December 2017, 07:39 PM   #76
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New plan: Chaffetz suggests Trump get rid of Sessions ("not up to the job"). Now there's a trick to get around Rosenstein. Lots of rumblings about James Baker getting reassigned supposedly because he leaked the Dossier to David Corn of Mother Jones back in 2016.

WA Po: FBI’s top lawyer said to be reassigned.

Hannity's team (Hannity has the day off) is on the case.


Oh yeah, don't forget to throw in Uranium One.

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Old 23rd December 2017, 12:03 PM   #77
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US provision of weapons to Ukraine could fuel conflict, Russia says
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ct-russia-says

Quote:
Russian officials have said the US decision to supply weapons to Ukraine will fuel conflict in the east of the country.

The US state department said on Friday that it would provide Ukraine with “enhanced defensive capabilities” as it continued to fight Russia-backed separatists in a low-intensity conflict.

...

The de facto change in policy, signed off by the state department and the Pentagon earlier this year, is likely to escalate tensions between the US and Russia.
I guess that puts paid to suggestions of any quid pro quo on this subject.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 12:55 PM   #78
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Now that is interesting. Because one of the pieces of evidence that suggests collusion between the Trump transition team and Russia is that they softened the promise of aid to Ukraine from "lethal defensive weapons" to "appropriate assistance". If that is the case and they're now walking that back, I wonder what that says about the current relationship between the two?
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Old 23rd December 2017, 01:16 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
If that is the case and they're now walking that back, I wonder what that says about the current relationship between the two?

Look over there. Providing weapons to the current Ukrainian regime is insanity. Period.
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Old 23rd December 2017, 01:39 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by WilliamSeger View Post
Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Republicans warn Trump of 2018 bloodbath
Virginia is the only race with any predictive value. The Democrat in New Jersey was running with an incumbent Republican who was the least popular governor in the country. We don't know what would have happened in Alabama if the Republican hadn't been a child molester. The Red to Blue seats in the Virginia House of Delegates is the only real data point that means anything and it's one state, a swing state.
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