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Old 11th January 2018, 04:30 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Yeah, a 40 year old man thinking he's in his full right staring a way at a teenager's breasts without her full consent is probably a pervert or slightly delusional.
Apparently a lot of men don't realize women actually have faces and just talk to their breasts. This is of course apparently perfectly OK behavior by many here.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:30 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by Porpoise of Life View Post
The #metoo thing was started because sexual abuse (mainly of women, and often by a person in a position of power) is overlooked or dismissed too often.

Why do so many people insist that it's some kind of anti male conspiracy that will make it illegal to look at a pretty woman?
Maybe because that seems to be the sentiment of so many #metoo supporters? Don't look, she's dressed like that for her own pleasure!

I agree with the original "statement" that #metoo tries to make. Sexual harassment and abuse of power is absolutely not ok.

But the scope seems to be broadening and consequences that before was handed down in a court of law come hard and fast at the accused. The accusations are being believed at face value with next to no critical review and the burden of proof has been reversed. It's up to the accused to prove innocence beyond all doubt to a public that has already made up its mind.

I'm not saying that none of the #metoo stories are true. Right now they are probably mostly true. What I'm saying is that if it goes on much longer with the same strength in the public eye, it will be used for evil.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:30 AM   #123
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Okay, there's a lot there, forgive me if I miss anything:


Originally Posted by The Don View Post
There seems to be some kind of continuum from completely ignoring at one end and loitering and staring at the other. It seems that different people have different opinions about what constitutes acceptable behaviour on this continuum. You think it's perfectly fine to stare at a woman's boobs as you walk past - because they are on display - and that the woman objecting is some kind of "gotcha". You also seem think that it's up to the person staring (or you, I'm not sure) to determine whether the person being stared at thinks the staring is rude and hence whether they can remonstrate with the person staring.
I don't like rules that require me to be a mind reader. I make the - in my opinion, fairly reasonable assumption - that the mind reading is not necessary when the lady in question has chosen to leave her house having chosen to wear clothing that is specifically chosen and designed to highlight and display the female bosom. I think it's entirely reasonable to assume that, if she didn't want them to be seen, she would have worn something different.



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True, but it's the same kind of behaviour.
Yes, it's a continuum. At some point on that continuum behaviour becomes rude and then unacceptable. The situation described was staring as walking past and that's what I'm dealing with here.
Quote:




What is acceptable ?
  • If I stop to stare, is that still acceptable ?
  • If I slow down to stare is that acceptable ?
  • If I maintain speed but change course, is that acceptable ?
  • If I maintan speed and course but turn around to continue staring once I've passed, is that acceptable ?
Amending one's path is probably rude, if it could be demonstrated - difficult to do though. Obviously amending one's intended course of action in order to enable continued ogling is the line. Simply turning one's head and looking is not crossing that line.




Quote:
IMO it's up to the person being stared at. If they're happy at you ogling their breasts then good luck to them (and you), but don't be surprised if other people have a lower threshold and upbraid you.
I don't like being required to read minds to remain within the bounds of acceptable behaviour. Given that I can't read minds, I'm going to go on the next best thing and assume that if someone displays something in public they don't mind it being looked at. After all, if they minded, they wouldn't. I don't wander around with my cock out because I don't want people looking. If I wandered around with my cock out, I@d expect people to look (and, perhaps, vomit)



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Acquaintance, not friend.

Would you feel comfortable staring at him though, or would you have the uneasy feeling that I have, that staring is rude ?
I'd look. I'm not going to lie, I couldn't help it. I wouldn't find another seat for a better view though.



Quote:
Where is the line ?

Is the person being stared at ever justified in complaining ?
Perhaps. They're cetainly allowed to say 'would you mind not staring'. This is, though, I think, a very different situation. In the case of the ogling breasts, a decision has been made to display them. That, I think, is critical.



Quote:
Not at all. IMO my acquaintance isn't being rude showing his facial disfigurement but I personally think that staring at him is rude. YMMV

IMO the same applies to attractive people.

Again, your acquaintance doesn't seem to have choice. Ladies who choose from their wardrobe in the morning a top - and bra - combination that displays their bosom are not in the same situation.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:32 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
Yeah, say teenager that way it sounds worse than it is. The story was that she was late teens/early 20's. As in adult/above the age of consent.

So for him to be able to look, she has to approach him and tell him to? What a bunch of BS.
Hey it works for all ages. It is just looking, what does it matter if the object of sexual desire is 20 vs a sexy 8 year old on the playground? Their consent is irrelevant to this behavior so why do they need to be of an age to consent?
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:35 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by Squeegee Beckenheim View Post
...and the whole bus applauded!
Exactly, if women don't want men taking upskirt pictures they shouldn't wear skirts!
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:35 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Hey it works for all ages. It is just looking, what does it matter if the object of sexual desire is 20 vs a sexy 8 year old on the playground? Their consent is irrelevant to this behavior so why do they need to be of an age to consent?
Oh stop the BS. Stop trying to bring kids into this. That is not what this is about.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:36 AM   #127
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Only those people that the young ladies want to notice should notice? That can't be right, that makes no sense.

I'm really sorry, but if she's showing it, in public, then I'm looking. End of story. I'm not grabbing, I'm not flashing, I'm not in her space, but I'm looking at the cleavage because I like boobs and she's made it very clear that hers are for public consumption.
And you love it when people stare at you in public after all. And really if you didn't want people grabbing your ass why did you wear those pants? As long as they stop when you complain it was all good.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:36 AM   #128
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Again, your acquaintance doesn't seem to have choice. Ladies who choose from their wardrobe in the morning a top - and bra - combination that displays their bosom are not in the same situation.
Will you be issuing the guidelines for modest dress to avoid unwarranted (and unwanted) attention. Clearly a low cut top is "asking for it", but how about something that covers everything but is form fitting, is that "asking for it" too ?

How should a woman dress if she doesn't want to be stared at, an be made to feel uncomfortable by, male horn-dogs ?
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:37 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
As a middle-aged, middle-class, white man, it's not really my prerogative to say whether or not #MeToo has gone too far.
I really dislike this sort of comment, no offense. As a person, it's absolutely your place to voice your opinion. This "oh, I'm so privileged because of my skin colour and genitals that I shouldn't really be worth listening to, but here's what I think anyway" is, in my opinion, toxic in and of itself. Being white and male shouldn't require a disclaimer.

Originally Posted by chrispy View Post
Aaaaaand...dressing in sexy, revealing couture says 'hey, sexually harass and/or assault me, please!'?

I know it's Cain, so not I'm not sure if it is a joke or sarcasm
Who said anything about assault? The point is Cain's post is that "don't treat me like an object of sexual desire" doesn't mesh well with "hey, look at how sexy I am!"

Originally Posted by The Don View Post
No, the problem has that non-consensual relations are being portrayed as consensual so that men can get away with sexual assault. If he unilaterally decides to "take it to the next level" then yes, it's assault.
That's all nice in theory but in actual human relations, one of the two usually tries to take it to the next level first, before he or she gets a written, notarised release from the other giving them permission to do so.

Originally Posted by Planigale View Post
Men do not get told to wear high heels and make up as part of their work dress code.
No but they're asked to wear suits so that they look handsome. And it works.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:37 AM   #130
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
It's an attempt to get you to understand my point of view. I don't think that's a "gotcha".
Feels like it. We've gone, or rather, you've gone from discussing adults to discussing children and I don't really know why. We weren't talking about children. Only you are talking about children and I don't think it's relevant.


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It does? Please explain.
Ladies past the age of sexual maturity wearing low cut tops will be ogled. Until we stamp dates of birth on people's foreheads then we're stuck with that.



Quote:
That's the question it raises to you? Seriously?



Do you think that, at any point at all, looking might break any social norms to the point where verbally lashing out at the oogler becomes acceptable?



Or you can just look and then apologize if you're caught, understanding that the person you were oogling didn't want you to.
At the risk of repeating myself here, I can't read minds. I can read actions though - something that's covered up = not okay to look at. Something on display in public = okay to look at.



Quote:
Thought crimes are committed by the mind. We're talking about the eyes here.
Yes, so you need the eye tracker machine.

Listen, the rule is simple - if it's in public and I can see it, I'm allowed to look. Nothing more, just look.

I'm afraid the clothes have not yet been created that are revealing only when looked at by people the wearer finds attractive.

If one wants to ensnare the hot bloke at the laundry and so wears one's friday night special, don't be surprised when everyone else in the laundry looks too.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:37 AM   #131
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And you love it when people stare at you in public after all. And really if you didn't want people grabbing your ass why did you wear those pants? As long as they stop when you complain it was all good.
No, complaining isn't allowed because those trousers were a "Gotcha !"
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:38 AM   #132
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
Again, give me a *********** break. You are not taking anything from her by looking. You did not invade her personal space like happens during rape. Equating looking with rape. What a bunch of nonsense.
Exactly there is nothing wrong with staring lustily at the objects of your desire, be they 26 or 6. It is those who complain that are the truly bad people.

It is only looking after all, not something to make a big deal over.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:39 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And you love it when people stare at you in public after all. And really if you didn't want people grabbing your ass why did you wear those pants? As long as they stop when you complain it was all good.
When I said that if he stops when she says to then that should be the end of it, I was meaning in a dating type situation. I was not talking about walking up to some random person and grabbing them like you seem to be saying.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:39 AM   #134
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And you love it when people stare at you in public after all. And really if you didn't want people grabbing your ass

for the love of *********** god, who on earth said anything about assault? Why are you suddenly including assault here? Nobody talked about assault and now you've decided that that's the logical and inevitable consequence of looking.



Quote:
why did you wear those pants? As long as they stop when you complain it was all good.
Jesus. Looking. Just looking.

I accept it's unacceptable to grab. I wouldn't ever do it. It's worong, it's illegal and it should be prosecuted.


Now that's out of the way, can we dispense with the hyperbole that this topic seems to so easily generate?
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:42 AM   #135
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Exactly there is nothing wrong with staring lustily at the objects of your desire, be they 26 or 6. It is those who complain that are the truly bad people.

It is only looking after all, not something to make a big deal over.
Oh stop the BS.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:44 AM   #136
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
And really if you didn't want people grabbing your ass why did you wear those pants? As long as they stop when you complain it was all good.
Noone is making that argument.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:44 AM   #137
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Originally Posted by Argumemnon View Post
That's all nice in theory but in actual human relations, one of the two usually tries to take it to the next level first, before he or she gets a written, notarised release from the other giving them permission to do so.
If you can find an example of me saying in this thread that consent needs to be either written or notarised, then you get a cookie

It seems that a lot of people in this thread, and they seem to be men, think that consent is given until it is removed. If I'm kissing someone, then I'm perfectly entitled to try to "cop a feel". I dispute that.

Now I may unilaterally decide that I want to do that, and I may have incorrectly interpreted verbal and non-verbal communication that consent is given, if that it the case then I shouldn't be surprised if the other party complains and indeed if my behaviour extends to sexual assault, does more than merely complain.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:48 AM   #138
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
Will you be issuing the guidelines for modest dress to avoid unwarranted (and unwanted) attention. Clearly a low cut top is "asking for it"
Asking to be looked at? Yes. Asking for anything else - and it's getting tedious pointing it out - not just you, Mr Don, but the common theme in the thread is one of hyperbole and I've lost count of the times I've had to say 'just looking'.


Quote:
, but how about something that covers everything but is form fitting, is that "asking for it" too ?
Asking for what?!?!? To be looked at? Yes! To be touched? Absolutely *********** not.


Quote:
How should a woman dress if she doesn't want to be stared at, an be made to feel uncomfortable by, male horn-dogs ?
Again, we've shifted here.

A woman who wears a low cut top, a top deliberately designed to show off her secondary sexual characteristics - characteristics which anthropologists tell us have specifically developed in the female human to attract a mate and to cause arousal - and, in all likelihood also a brassiere specifically designed to enhance all of the things that are developed by evolution to cause arousal in males has no cause to complain when her efforts cause, not only attractive me but all men to look.

I feel the need to add - not touch, not stalk, not follow, not catcall, just look.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:48 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by ponderingturtle View Post
Exactly there is nothing wrong with staring lustily at the objects of your desire, be they 26 or 6. It is those who complain that are the truly bad people.

It is only looking after all, not something to make a big deal over.
What's with the kids? Noone is trying to say that it's ok to "stare lustily" at kids. Stop trying to build that strawman, it's silly.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:51 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
If you can find an example of me saying in this thread that consent needs to be either written or notarised, then you get a cookie

It seems that a lot of people in this thread, and they seem to be men, think that consent is given until it is removed. If I'm kissing someone, then I'm perfectly entitled to try to "cop a feel". I dispute that.
I don't think I@ve ever asked, while kissing someone, if I can cop a feel. Actually, that would be impossible.

In my experience, and this works for both sexes, if one wants to cop a feel, the one moves ones hand, one doesn't ask. If one's hand is firmly removed then it doesn't go back. I really don't ever recall outright asking if I can grope the breast or bum of the person I'm kissing.


Quote:
Now I may unilaterally decide that I want to do that, and I may have incorrectly interpreted verbal and non-verbal communication that consent is given, if that it the case then I shouldn't be surprised if the other party complains and indeed if my behaviour extends to sexual assault, does more than merely complain.
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Old 11th January 2018, 04:52 AM   #141
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And to belabour the point the #me2 is not about people being looked at in public, it is about people in power over someone else's way of earning an income using that power to sexually assault/harass the person they have power over.

That is the problem that has been exposed and it appears the problem was much worse than many people thought and it's that problem that needs to be addressed and fixed.
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:00 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by Darat View Post
And to belabour the point the #me2 is not about people being looked at in public, it is about people in power over someone else's way of earning an income using that power to sexually assault/harass the person they have power over.
Yes.


Quote:
That is the problem that has been exposed and it appears the problem was much worse than many people thought and it's that problem that needs to be addressed and fixed.

The discussion of one distracts from the seriousness of the other, yes.
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:01 AM   #143
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I pay no heed to a campaign fronted and backed by the very people who enabled the bad behaviour in the first place. Meryl Streep, one day cheerleading for a child rapist, the next calling a known sexual predator 'God', the next day dressed all in black, dewy-eyed for the trauma suffered by females in Hollywood and determined that this stops here. 99% of Hollywood is the same, not to mention your next president who used to hang off Weinstein's arm and smooch up to him in the full knowledge of his sexual predations, and who is now applauded for taking a stand against this sort of thing (when it suits her career path).
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:01 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Asking to be looked at? Yes. Asking for anything else - and it's getting tedious pointing it out - not just you, Mr Don, but the common theme in the thread is one of hyperbole and I've lost count of the times I've had to say 'just looking'.
You seem to think that someone dressing in a way that you find attractive gives you the right to stare at them and furthermore removes their right to complain because "Gotcha!".

I disagree. IMO staring, for whatever reason, is rude and you have no cause for complaint if the person staring complains, and IMO you certainly don't get to take them to task for dressing that way.

Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Asking for what?!?!? To be looked at? Yes! To be touched? Absolutely *********** not.
If someone (let's say an attractive young woman) doesn't want to be stared at by old men, how do you suggest that she should dress and conduct herself ?

Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Again, we've shifted here.

A woman who wears a low cut top, a top deliberately designed to show off her secondary sexual characteristics - characteristics which anthropologists tell us have specifically developed in the female human to attract a mate and to cause arousal - and, in all likelihood also a brassiere specifically designed to enhance all of the things that are developed by evolution to cause arousal in males has no cause to complain when her efforts cause, not only attractive me but all men to look.

I feel the need to add - not touch, not stalk, not follow, not catcall, just look.
Then I repeat my point, If someone (let's say an attractive young woman) doesn't want to be stared at by old men, how do you suggest that she should dress and conduct herself ?

At what point does she "earn" the right to complain when someone is staring at her breasts (covered in whatever manner she chooses) ?
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:12 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
Oh stop the BS. Stop trying to bring kids into this. That is not what this is about.
I understand that completely, and I'm not insinuating anything with my line of questioning. The reason I bring children up here is because of the argument that if it's in a public space, it's up for public consumption. I wondered if that applied to children as well, and I very much doubt anyone here who is a parent would be comfortable or even inactive if their child was oogled the same way the woman in the story was. It's a question of principle that attacks that specific argument, nothing else.
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:15 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
You seem to think that someone dressing in a way that you find attractive gives you the right to stare at them and furthermore removes their right to complain because "Gotcha!".

I disagree. IMO staring, for whatever reason, is rude and you have no cause for complaint if the person staring complains, and IMO you certainly don't get to take them to task for dressing that way.



If someone (let's say an attractive young woman) doesn't want to be stared at by old men, how do you suggest that she should dress and conduct herself ?



Then I repeat my point, If someone (let's say an attractive young woman) doesn't want to be stared at by old men, how do you suggest that she should dress and conduct herself ?
If a young lady doesn't want to be the object of attention she should not wear clothes that draw attention. Very specifically, in this discussion, a low cut top.

We're not talking here about a lady dressed in jeans and a tshirt, we're not talking about a wallflower out in public for the first time wearing as many clothes as she can because she's petrified of the outside world.

What we're talking about is a lady wearing an extremely low cut top. Now, if this lady doesn't want her cleavage ogled then I would firmly suggest that she does not wear a low cut top that is very specifically designed to show her cleavage.

It follows, very logically that my suggestion is that a lady who does not want her cleavage ogled not wear a low cut top.



Quote:
At what point does she "earn" the right to complain when someone is staring at her breasts (covered in whatever manner she chooses) ?
When she's not wearing a low cut top that's been very specifically designed to show off her body.


If I went out i my clown suit and people stared, would I be within my rights to complain about it? Or would it be my fault for so obviously trying to draw attention to myself.
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:16 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Ladies past the age of sexual maturity wearing low cut tops will be ogled. Until we stamp dates of birth on people's foreheads then we're stuck with that.
Children are not ladies past the age of sexual maturity in this line of reasoning. I explained that clearly in a previous post.




Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
At the risk of repeating myself here, I can't read minds. I can read actions though - something that's covered up = not okay to look at. Something on display in public = okay to look at.
You can't read minds but you can judge consent by what people show?


Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Yes, so you need the eye tracker machine.

Listen, the rule is simple - if it's in public and I can see it, I'm allowed to look. Nothing more, just look.
Nobody is going to put you in jail, so yes, you are allowed to look. You are not allowed to look while expecting not to be called a pervert, and you are not allowed to slut-shame the woman you're oogling without social consequences.
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:17 AM   #148
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Children are not ladies past the age of sexual maturity in this line of reasoning. I explained that clearly in a previous post.






You can't read minds but you can judge consent by what people show?




Nobody is going to put you in jail, so yes, you are allowed to look. You are not allowed to look while expecting not to be called a pervert, and you are not allowed to slut-shame the woman you're oogling without social consequences.
It makes someone a pervert for looking at boobs that are being shown in public?
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:19 AM   #149
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Children are not ladies past the age of sexual maturity in this line of reasoning. I explained that clearly in a previous post.






You can't read minds but you can judge consent by what people show?
I don't think I need consent to look. Hell, I don't need consent to film where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. Like being in a public space. There is no expectation of privacy there.




Quote:
Nobody is going to put you in jail, so yes, you are allowed to look. You are not allowed to look while expecting not to be called a pervert, and you are not allowed to slut-shame the woman you're oogling without social consequences.
Who the hell is slut shaming anyone? Sluts are among my favourite people. Wear what you like, be who you like, walk down the street naked and if someone grabs you I'll stop him fuelair style, but I'm going to look.

How have we managed to arrive at "looking at someone" = "slutshaming"
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:21 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
I don't think I need consent to look. Hell, I don't need consent to film where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy. Like being in a public space. There is no expectation of privacy there.
A public space, like a beach. Yes, you need consent if you are filming people.


Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
Who the hell is slut shaming anyone? Sluts are among my favourite people. Wear what you like, be who you like, walk down the street naked and if someone grabs you I'll stop him fuelair style, but I'm going to look.

How have we managed to arrive at "looking at someone" = "slutshaming"
The man in the story we're discussing was slut-shaming the woman in the story.
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:23 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by baron View Post
I pay no heed to a campaign fronted and backed by the very people who enabled the bad behaviour in the first place. Meryl Streep, one day cheerleading for a child rapist, the next calling a known sexual predator 'God', the next day dressed all in black, dewy-eyed for the trauma suffered by females in Hollywood and determined that this stops here. 99% of Hollywood is the same, not to mention your next president who used to hang off Weinstein's arm and smooch up to him in the full knowledge of his sexual predations, and who is now applauded for taking a stand against this sort of thing (when it suits her career path).
Does the problem not exist if someone is a hypocrite, is there nothing to be done if someone is a hypocrite? Your argument means that you are saying that the single mother of 2 has to put up with her boss groping her because you think Streep is a hypocrite and therefore we should ignore that the problem pervades society.
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:24 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
It makes someone a pervert for looking at boobs that are being shown in public?
Nope. It makes someone a pervert to oogle boobs that he happens to see in public but clearly weren't put on display for him. It makes him an ******* to then slut-shame the woman berating him for his perverted behavior.

Look, I'm a guy too. I like to see pretty ladies. That doesn't mean I think it's appropriate behavior for me to oogle women in public. Social codes like this isn't really hard to learn. Have a cheeky glance, and if she catches you, apologize. If she calls you a pervert, simply say "sorry miss, won't happen again" and walk away. It's not *********** rocket science.
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:25 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
A public space, like a beach. Yes, you need consent if you are filming people.




The man in the story we're discussing was slut-shaming the woman in the story.
He was? This is the guy looking at her? The woman who then yelled at him for looking? That's slutshaming? As far as I can work out, that's just admiring a woman. I'm afraid I'm allowed to do that. I might, somewhere in my head, have graphic and naughty thoughts about the woman at whom I'm looking, I'm afraid I'm allowed to do that too.

Or are we talking about a different story?
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:26 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Nope. It makes someone a pervert to oogle boobs that he happens to see in public but clearly weren't put on display for him. It makes him an ******* to then slut-shame the woman berating him for his perverted behavior.

Look, I'm a guy too. I like to see pretty ladies. That doesn't mean I think it's appropriate behavior for me to oogle women in public. Social codes like this isn't really hard to learn. Have a cheeky glance, and if she catches you, apologize. If she calls you a pervert, simply say "sorry miss, won't happen again" and walk away. It's not *********** rocket science.
What part of "in public" is not clear?
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:26 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
He was? This is the guy looking at her? The woman who then yelled at him for looking? That's slutshaming? As far as I can work out, that's just admiring a woman. I'm afraid I'm allowed to do that. I might, somewhere in my head, have graphic and naughty thoughts about the woman at whom I'm looking, I'm afraid I'm allowed to do that too.

Or are we talking about a different story?
No, we're talking about the same story, but you left off the end where the slut-shaming occured.
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:27 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by 3point14 View Post
By looking into someone's house. Not at someone walking down the street.
If they didn't want people to look they should have drawn the curtains. What is this idea that suddenly it is strange to look into someones house through clearly unobscured windows as long as you are not tresspassing? That is as crazy as saying where you can and can not look on a train and someone has their cleavage exposed. People can not control where they look.

Now pass the binoculars.
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:27 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
Yeah, a 40 year old man thinking he's in his full right staring a way at a teenager's breasts without her full consent is probably a pervert or slightly delusional.
Well, thanks for showing that it has indeed gone too far. Apparently now we need permission to look at people.

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Yes, I think she deserves an apology. He was the one at fault.
At fault for what? Oogling in the First Degree?

Quote:
He should have resisted the urge to oogle her breasts. They weren't on display for him, and if he had any sense, he would have known that.
They were on display for all to see. You do understand the concept of putting things out in public, right?

Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
How has she done so? By wearing a low cut top? Is your car for public consumption if you leave it with the window rolled down, or is it still stealing if someone takes it?
People are free to look at my car when it's out in public, yes.

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I didn't equate looking with rape.
Yes you did. You also equated it with stealing.
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:27 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
Here we go again. We are all supposed to pretend that we do not have sexual urges or that we are not attracted to each other's parts. We are not supposed to ever look (even for a second) when someone has their parts out in public. Give me a *********** break. This what I mean by it going too far.
You are not supposed to look. The world would be a much better place of we didn't.
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:27 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by mike81 View Post
What part of "in public" is not clear?
No part. It's perfectly clear. Hence my post.
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Old 11th January 2018, 05:28 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by uke2se View Post
And if she's not? Is her body up for public consumption then?
That is why you don't let them out in public before they are of age.
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