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Tags donald trump , Trump administration , Trump controversies

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Old 22nd January 2018, 03:25 PM   #361
theprestige
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So if you are going to debate this woman's military knowledge, how about actually debating the facts rather than her combat injury as if that is all she ever accomplished.
You're the first person to bring up qualifications other than her injuries or her service record. I think if you go back over my posts, you'll see that this is exactly what I've been calling for all along.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 03:25 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Does it make me qualified to lecture Duckworth?
Nope
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Old 22nd January 2018, 03:26 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
So your complaint is about appearances? : rolleyes :
My complaint is that the argument presented and defended here so far is a bad argument. The fact that it appears bad is just a side effect of it being bad.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 03:28 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Nope
And by the same token, Duckworth's service record doesn't make her qualified to lecture me. Or Trump, really. Because, again, the service record is a red herring.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 03:32 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
And by the same token, Duckworth's service record doesn't make her qualified to lecture me. Or Trump, really. Because, again, the service record is a red herring.
The one and only topic that anyone, literally, can't lecture trump on is on being a narcissistic bully alpha-male wannabe.

Anybody from any background can lecture him on any topic, even topics they don't personally have any experience in.

For instance, I can lecture him on the military and what it means to be an American even without military experience. My one and only qualification is that I care.

That beats him.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 03:48 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
There's no tie to break, and service is not automatically a sign of fitness or qualification. I already have brought up examples of people with service records, who turned out to be unqualified. And an example of someone without a service record, whose qualifications to lecture on military matters are widely recognized.

Again, her service record is a red herring. If I had the choice of a military lecture from someone who had served, or from someone who hadn't served, I'd choose the lecturer who was actually more qualified to speak on the topic.
Fair enough, but that isn't Donald Trump when compared to, well, almost anyone.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 03:52 PM   #367
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
Fair enough, but that isn't Donald Trump when compared to, well, almost anyone.
Stipulated, without reservation.

But service record still isn't a good proxy for actual qualifications, in my opinion.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 04:52 PM   #368
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Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
The one and only topic that anyone, literally, can't lecture trump on is on being a narcissistic bully alpha-male wannabe.
.....
Actually, one of the symptoms of this kind of personality disorder is a complete lack of insight that he has it. So it's doubtful he has valid expertise on this subject.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 05:13 PM   #369
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
You're falling for the GOP talking points which are getting a lot of play on the MSM.
I really haven't been paying much attention to the MSM. I've been too disgusted. And I don't really see how I am "falling for the GOP talking points" when I don't even know what those are. I am speaking as someone who has followed immigration issues for more than 10 years, and who has known dozens, perhaps hundreds, of young people who may be affected.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
DACA could have been addressed at any point. McConnell refuses to let bills come to the floor.
I never understood why anyone trusted McConnell to facilitate passage of a clean DACA bill. I said that back when the tax cut passed.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 05:24 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I really haven't been paying much attention to the MSM. I've been too disgusted. And I don't really see how I am "falling for the GOP talking points" when I don't even know what those are.
You many not be "falling for GOP talking points", but you are certainly echoing their sentiments, for whatever reason..

Earlier you claimed that you "don't blame trump", but then you suggest that getting rid of DACA is a bad thing and that Trump should just bring in another executive order to renew it. Well, that's the thing... it was Trump himself who acted to get rid of it.
Quote:
I never understood why anyone trusted McConnell to facilitate passage of a clean DACA bill. I said that back when the tax cut passed.
Nobody should trust McConnell. But, he is the senate Majority leader, and as such a lot of what happens in the house will end up involving him.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 05:32 PM   #371
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
You many not be "falling for GOP talking points", but you are certainly echoing their sentiments, for whatever reason..
Because their primary sentiment is "ignore the MSM, pretend like the last year never happened."
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Old 22nd January 2018, 05:44 PM   #372
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Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
Trump will simply veto any bill containing DACA.
When there's something I care about a lot in the news, I paradoxically will stop following the news. I get too frustrated. I'm not sure Trump would veto DACA. IMO the U.S. would gain mightily by regularizing the status of most illegal immigrants, but I get it when people oppose letting them all stay. They made a choice. But their kids didn't.

I can't post effectively on the latest round of political obstructionism. I don't know who's at fault. I don't know why Republicans can't just pass what they please. At some point I'll get informed. Right now I'm just disgusted all over again.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 06:09 PM   #373
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Christopher Wray threatened to resign amid Trump, Sessions pressure

Quote:
Attorney General Jeff Sessions — at the public urging of President Donald Trump — has been pressuring FBI Director Christopher Wray to fire Deputy Director Andrew McCabe, but Wray threatened to resign if McCabe was removed, according to three sources with direct knowledge.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 06:15 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I really haven't been paying much attention to the MSM. I've been too disgusted. And I don't really see how I am "falling for the GOP talking points" when I don't even know what those are. I am speaking as someone who has followed immigration issues for more than 10 years, and who has known dozens, perhaps hundreds, of young people who may be affected.....
Following the issues where or how?


It's not personal. The alt-right narrative seeps in through every pore in the country.

Let's look at the issues.
Originally Posted by Minoosh
Is this the place to say that it's lunacy to tie DACA to a whole bunch of huge issues? This is not Trump's fault.
It is Trump's fault because he cancelled Obama's DACA executive order in the first place.

Originally Posted by Minoosh
A clean DACA bill would pass, IMO.
Of course it would. But neither McConnell nor Ryan will let it come up for a vote. Nothing the Democrats can do about that without political force.

Originally Posted by Minoosh
I'm sick about how it's been held hostage pending resolution of a whole bunch of other issues.
Yes, and the question is, why are the Democrats responsible for this?

They aren't. It is however, the GOP and Trump narrative.


Apparently the GOP put another poison pill in the government funding bill to make the Democrats look bad. The military pay. Tell me how this:
Quote:
In fact, a government shutdown would likely have little impact on members of the military, especially if Congress takes action to minimize the effects as it has in the past. Some civilian employees and contractors could still feel the pinch, however.
turned into this: Soldiers won't be paid and neither would widowers of soldiers.

Pence said so in his Israeli campaign speech, and a commercial was made claiming the Democrats were trading the rights of service persons for the rights of illegal immigrants. Sarah Suckabee repeated the campaign talking point.

All of that was clearly planned by the GOP legislators and very much purposeful.

When I say you bought the GOP talking point, I'm talking about you believing the Democrats were holding the spending bill hostage without noticing how that POV has been so manipulated.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 06:22 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Can anyone spell, 'obstruction'?

Trump is really feeling that pressure for someone who insists he has nothing to worry about.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 07:52 PM   #376
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Stipulated, without reservation.

But service record still isn't a good proxy for actual qualifications, in my opinion.
It certainly can be, but I don't know the record of her service, so I won't hang my hat on that.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 08:52 PM   #377
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
Apparently McCabe told people last month that he plans to retire soon, as soon as he can collect his full pension after 20+ years of FBI service. Trump is obviously just trying to screw the guy over.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.0926d27042d1

Last edited by Bob001; 22nd January 2018 at 08:57 PM.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 08:56 PM   #378
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Originally Posted by phiwum View Post
It certainly can be, but I don't know the record of her service, so I won't hang my hat on that.

Her record isn't hard to find:
Quote:
Ladda Tammy Duckworth (born March 12, 1968) is an American politician and retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel, serving as the junior United States Senator for Illinois since 2017. A member of the Democratic Party, she earlier represented Illinois' 8th district for two terms (2013–2017) in the United States House of Representatives. Before seeking elective office, she served as Assistant Secretary for Public and Intergovernmental Affairs in the United States Department of Veterans Affairs (2009-2011), and she was the Director of the Illinois Department of Veterans Affairs (2006-2009). In the 2016 election, Duckworth defeated incumbent Republican Senator Mark Kirk for the seat in the United States Senate.[2]

Duckworth was the first Asian American woman elected to Congress in Illinois, the first disabled woman to be elected to Congress, and the first member of Congress born in Thailand. Her father, an American, and her Thai mother were working and living there at the time. Duckworth is the second Asian-American woman serving in the U.S. Senate after Mazie Hirono and next to Kamala Harris.

An Iraq War veteran, Duckworth served as a U.S. Army helicopter pilot and suffered severe combat wounds, losing both of her legs and damaging her right arm. She was the first female double amputee from the war.[3] Having received a medical waiver, she continued to serve as a Lieutenant Colonel in the Illinois Army National Guard along with her husband, Major Bryan W. Bowlsbey, a signal officer and fellow Iraq War veteran, until her retirement from the Army in October 2014.[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammy_Duckworth
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Old 22nd January 2018, 09:02 PM   #379
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Daft Taft's fans are getting dangerous.


Quote:
A Michigan man was arrested after an FBI investigation, accused of threatening to travel to Atlanta to commit mass murder at CNN headquarters.

According to federal court documents, the man, from a Detroit suburb, made 22 calls to CNN about a week ago.
It began with claims of "fake news" and ended with threats of violence.

The man told a CNN operator, among other things, "Fake news. I'm coming to gun you all down."

He then called again, saying "I'm smarter than you. More powerful than you.

I have more guns than you. More manpower. Your cast is about to get gunned down in a matter of hours."

He continued, "I am coming to Georgia right now to go to the CNN headquarters to ********** gun every single last one of you."
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Old 22nd January 2018, 09:18 PM   #380
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A Trumpite threatening to do to CNN what some Mohammedans did in Paris at Charlie Hebdo... And the Trumper loons would fail to see the parallels.

By number of incidents and individuals involved, good ol' Murican home-grown terrorism in the US by far outstrips all foreign-imported terrorism.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 09:52 PM   #381
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Can anyone spell, 'obstruction'?

Trump is really feeling that pressure for someone who insists he has nothing to worry about.
"Why it matters: Trump started his presidency by pressuring one FBI Director (before canning him), and then began pressuring another (this time wanting his deputy canned). This much meddling with the FBI for this long is not normal."

Yeah. That's not even normal for a crook. Most crooks have sense enough not to push the FBI around.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 11:24 PM   #382
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Originally Posted by Captain_Swoop View Post
She was elected.
Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
So was Trump.
Duckworth was elected by the majority of her electorate. Trump was not.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 11:27 PM   #383
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Trump prefers soldiers who don't get shot down. Sad. Total losers.
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Old 22nd January 2018, 11:58 PM   #384
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I love this protest sign picture: Build the wall and my generation will tear it down.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 12:01 AM   #385
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Originally Posted by Toontown View Post
"Why it matters: Trump started his presidency by pressuring one FBI Director (before canning him), and then began pressuring another (this time wanting his deputy canned). This much meddling with the FBI for this long is not normal."

Yeah. That's not even normal for a crook. Most crooks have sense enough not to push the FBI around.
Almost makes one wish J Edgar was still around.

Hmmm, that's fodder for one of those alternate history books, Trump in the time of Hoover. Russia gets Hoover's dress-up tapes and Trump's pee pee tapes. Oh man, the optional endings there are a writer's dream.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 12:04 AM   #386
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Almost makes one wish J Edgar was still around.

Hmmm, that's fodder for one of those alternate history books, Trump in the time of Hoover.
They could do each other's hair and share their dresses.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 02:19 AM   #387
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Following the issues where or how?
Skeptic Ginger, you have at least twice told me how I arrive at my opinions and you've been wrong both times. Please stop.

Here's how I have followed the issues: For about 8 years I was a newspaper editor overseeing coverage of the border and immigration. I assigned and/or edited perhaps hundreds of news stories, many involving DACA, going back to about 2002. I've also done a fair amount of commentary (with attendant research). Since 2010 I've been been working in schools, some literally 98 percent Latino. I've seen a 14-year-old sobbing in a teacher's arms because he missed his father and grandparents, but couldn't visit Mexico because he might not get back into the U.S. In 2011 I did extensive interviews as part of research for a documentary (it has never been released), talking to human-rights activists and finding a family that felt secure enough to appear in the film. I edited stories about a 19-year-old U.S. soldier who finally earned his citizenship after he was killed in combat.

Throughout, I have tried to inform the public by taking those mainstream media stories, including those from the AP, and making them more concrete and detailed. I slash the phrase "tough new immigration law" in favor of a paragraph summarizing what the bill would do.

At least once before, you have invented motives for my posts - your theory that I am "falling for" Republican talking points, or that my views on Iran are based on media-driven stereotypes. I won't go into length about my qualifications on Iran, but they are based on talking to a wide variety of Iranians both inside and outside of Iran; extensive reading (not just MSM) and slipping into the Islamic Republic of Iran as a "proofreader" because I was afraid if I put "journalist" or even "editor" on my visa application they wouldn't let me in. None of that makes me an expert, but I'm reasonably well-informed.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Let's look at the issues. It is Trump's fault because he cancelled Obama's DACA executive order in the first place.
Yep.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Yes, and the question is, why are the Democrats responsible for this?
I didn't say they were. I was talking about my frustration with Congress as a whole over the years. For better or worse I haven't even been paying attention to who's doing what right now. But I absolutely have not been influenced by Trump/GOP talking points on this issue. I watch virtually no television and haven't been on CNN's site in days.

Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
When I say you bought the GOP talking point, I'm talking about you believing the Democrats were holding the spending bill hostage without noticing how that POV has been so manipulated.
I'm talking about what has happened with this bill over the years. I didn't watch any Pence speeches. I don't listen to anything Sarah Huckabee Sanders says. I didn't even know the GOP was blaming Democrats for the holdup. I plead ignorance, but please be aware that I am not someone who is easily manipulated by the media. I've spent a good deal of time demolishing talking points by insisting on adding perspective to stories, filling in gaping holes and sometimes asking awkward questions. I had huge leeway to do this and was highly trusted.

If I was still doing my old job I would be following these machinations closely but right now I'm ignoring it. Too crazy-making. I know I'm not falling for any GOP finger-pointing. You can draw your own conclusions.

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Old 23rd January 2018, 02:31 AM   #388
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According to a book written by Fox News anchor Howard Kurtz, Trump admitted he was wrong to make an issue out of the size of his inauguration crowd

My favourite bit is this:

Quote:
[Kellyanne Conway] appeared to be one of the few who could calm Trump down, using a line she regularly employs with the president when he gets irritated about a matter: ‘You’re really big. That’s really small.’ ”
That's literally how you manage a 5 year old.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 05:31 AM   #389
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Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
Getting injured in combat is not a qualification to discuss military affairs. Combat injuries do not impart knowledge of recruitment and retention, training and doctrine, procurement and supply, etc. They don't make anyone an expert, or even minimally competent, in matters of strategic priority, force strength and composition, or national security posture. By themselves, they don't even give much insight into the administration of veteran's affairs.
Right, it's not the injury itself that gives you the knowlege but the service.

Originally Posted by theprestige View Post
As for rank being a qualification? She might have been a Lieutenant Colonel, but Donald Trump is Commander in Chief.
Becoming a Lieutenant Colonel takes years and must be earned. One would learn a lot during those years of service.

Becoming Commander in Chief only takes an election, and up until the time when you start getting those intel briefs doesn't teach you anything.

You started off making a logical point, then took this nose-dive into silliness.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 06:50 AM   #390
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Originally Posted by Skeptic Ginger View Post
Hmmm, that's fodder for one of those alternate history books, ...
I feel like we've been in the "alternate history" for about the last year.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 06:59 AM   #391
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Originally Posted by Stacko View Post
A Michigan man was arrested after an FBI investigation, accused of threatening to travel to Atlanta to commit mass murder at CNN headquarters.

According to federal court documents, the man, from a Detroit suburb, made 22 calls to CNN about a week ago.
It began with claims of "fake news" and ended with threats of violence.

The man told a CNN operator, among other things, "Fake news. I'm coming to gun you all down."

He then called again, saying "I'm smarter than you. More powerful than you.

I have more guns than you. More manpower. Your cast is about to get gunned down in a matter of hours."

He continued, "I am coming to Georgia right now to go to the CNN headquarters to ********** gun every single last one of you."



This is what the undercurrent of the Trump movement seems to be; some might feel they have been given a free ride with respect to racism and discrimination; and the justification of violence against those who oppose the President.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 07:06 AM   #392
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Real world experience is extremely faulty compared to evidence based approaches.
Since when are you interested ion evidence based approach? You’ve made it abundantly clearly you are only interested in your own idealized view of how the world should work and routinely dismiss evidence of how it actually works are being irrelevant to you.

Originally Posted by kookbreaker View Post
Get back to us when Trump uses anything resembling either of those, OK?
Not just Trump. Republicans in general despise evidence based approaches.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 07:08 AM   #393
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Originally Posted by C_Felix View Post


This is what the undercurrent of the Trump movement seems to be; some might feel they have been given a free ride with respect to racism and discrimination; and the justification of violence against those who oppose the President.
What's scary is that if/when he is indicted, Trumpublicans are likely to become even more violent on his behalf.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 07:17 AM   #394
BobTheCoward
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Originally Posted by lomiller View Post
Since when are you interested ion evidence based approach? You’ve made it abundantly clearly you are only interested in your own idealized view of how the world should work and routinely dismiss evidence of how it actually works are being irrelevant to you.


Not just Trump. Republicans in general despise evidence based approaches.
I'm not interested in effects of policies. I am capable of assessing the process of determining the effects and their probability of occurring. When a person points to very strong evidence of all the harm my policies will do, I agree with them.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 07:35 AM   #395
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Originally Posted by Segnosaur View Post
Well, that's the thing... it was Trump himself who acted to get rid of it.
Who says Trump can't change his mind? Maybe with an AG other than Sessions.

I've stayed awake writing screeds that I have deemed not fit to post. Twice I tried to tone it down; this is the third draft. The Dreamers, who believed America's promises, are low-hanging fruit. We know where they live, or where the go to school. Round them up and get as many people as we can into custody. Expedite their removal orders and fly them deep into Mexico's interior. Where exactly you put them is not clear; but having them walk right into Mexico isn't enough; they need to be 1,000 miles from the border and boom, not our problem. Somehow we'll strong-arm Mexico into taking charge of them, and those people probably won't make it back.

I keep thinking if Americans - and not just Democrats and a few Republicans, but masses of independents and some wavering Trump supporters - get a clear enough picture of who Trump really is - an extremist who seriously wants to be a dictator - his approval rating will hit the teens. So start deporting people. Let's see how that plays out.

America made a commitment to these young people. If Americans want to live in a country that reneges on such commitments - an America that will not admit even a token number of refugees displaced as a result of wars we started - an America that turns away even highly skilled professionals because competition scares the local talent - at that point America is dying or dead. We've turned our back on the world. We'll be a shrinking plurality of mostly white people who feel they've been left behind and don't want any more change, unless it's to see the hands of the clock moving backward. Actually I can relate to that; things are moving forward rather more quickly than I would like. (Not the demographics, but other things). It is scary. But not as scary as the waves of xenophobia, religious mania and white nationalism that got Trump into office.

I don't want to see him impeached, especially. I just want his support to dwindle at least down to the teens as people realize what a phony he is and what a dead end he wants to create for this country. I'd like to see the Republican party fractured, and the Democrats actually on the ball and ready with a plan for communicating their own message and whipping up votes.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 07:51 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by Minoosh View Post
I keep thinking if Americans - and not just Democrats and a few Republicans, but masses of independents and some wavering Trump supporters - get a clear enough picture of who Trump really is - an extremist who seriously wants to be a dictator - his approval rating will hit the teens. So start deporting people. Let's see how that plays out.
President Trump isn't the problem IMO, he's a symptom of the problem (a potent mix of selfishness, racism, xenophobia, fear of losing power, lack of respect for expertise and experts and inerrancy). If people start getting deported, President Trump's support will actually get a slight bump because the 35-40% who already love him will continue to love him and a proportion of the remainder will support him because he's a strong President, doing what he promised and protecting America.

The people who will be incensed at the deportations are IMO already vehemently anti-Trump.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 07:58 AM   #397
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Incoming news cycle about Trump mimicking Indian accents.
While that would be abnormal, insensitive and stupid behaviour for normal people involved in diplomacy, it's just another day for Trump. Supporters will find it funny and enjoy that it irritates non-supporters. We'll all be a little more numb.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 08:12 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by The Don View Post
President Trump isn't the problem IMO, he's a symptom of the problem (a potent mix of selfishness, racism, xenophobia, fear of losing power, lack of respect for expertise and experts and inerrancy). If people start getting deported, President Trump's support will actually get a slight bump because the 35-40% who already love him will continue to love him and a proportion of the remainder will support him because he's a strong President, doing what he promised and protecting America.

The people who will be incensed at the deportations are IMO already vehemently anti-Trump.
Well said.
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Old 23rd January 2018, 08:19 AM   #399
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Old 23rd January 2018, 08:20 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by TofuFighter View Post
Incoming news cycle about Trump mimicking Indian accents.
While that would be abnormal, insensitive and stupid behaviour for normal people involved in diplomacy, it's just another day for Trump. Supporters will find it funny and enjoy that it irritates non-supporters. We'll all be a little more numb.
Look, if paying hush money over an affair with a porn star doesn't even make a single one of his supporters blink and it doesn't even stary in the news cycle a few moments of his blatant racism isn't going to have any effect.
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