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Tags !MOD BOX WARNING! , Florida incidents , school incidents , school shootings , shooting incidents

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Old 15th February 2018, 11:38 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by BobTheCoward View Post
Here is another chart.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...cs-maps-charts


(chart 6 for reference)

If the US cut gun ownership by 80%, and still managed to be the worst nation on the chart (by only reducing gun deaths by 30%), I think that would still be viewed as a massive accomplishment and people would worry about cultural factors later.
For the life of me I can't see why you wouldn't advocate precisely what you've you've just speculated about, given the obvious conclusions from the charts/ graphs you link to.
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Old 15th February 2018, 11:39 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Oh, yes.
I don't see anything so far that strikes me as mental illness.
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Old 15th February 2018, 11:40 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by lionking View Post
I'm absolutely certain that you know this, but the position of most people in other parts of the world is that you address mental health issues while at the same time put in place policies which keep deadly firearms highly restricted.
Something that Obama implemented and Trump rescinded.
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Old 15th February 2018, 11:47 AM   #124
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FBI was warned about alleged shooter nearly 5 months ago, tipster says

Originally Posted by CNN
The FBI was warned in September about a possible school shooting threat from a YouTube user with the same name as the suspect in Wednesday's campus massacre in Parkland, Florida, according to a video blogger.

Ben Bennight, the 36-year-old YouTube video blogger from Mississippi, noticed in September an alarming comment on a video he'd posted. He told CNN he immediately contacted the FBI.

"Im going to be a professional school shooter," read the comment, left by a user with the name Nikolas Cruz, the same name of the suspected shooter who opened fire at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School on Wednesday, killing at least 17 people.

It was one of at least two alleged threat reports about the suspected shooter that the FBI received, according to a law enforcement official. In both cases, the FBI did not share the information with local law enforcement, the official said...
http://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/nik...ned/index.html
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Old 15th February 2018, 11:54 AM   #125
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Originally Posted by autumn1971 View Post
What I got out of it was that a horrific atrocity resulted in Australians clamoring for control, while multiple slaughters in the US result in gun owners not only asserting that gun availability is not the problem, but that more guns might be the solution. We in the US have a pathetic, stunted, and toxic culture which enshrines vigilante justice and discounts the rule of law.
Which I agree was the intended message and the way it should be taken. But look at the questions on a site like Quora regarding British gun laws in particular and the implication is almost always that our guns were taken away against our will, and (at the most extreme) that we're consequently at the mercy of our police and army, when the truth is that the laws were passed by our elected representatives (actually two governments from different parties) with overwhelming approval. I think it's an important distinction in order to prevent misrepresentation of the situation.
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Old 15th February 2018, 11:57 AM   #126
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Has the gun debate been settled yet?
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:08 PM   #127
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Mod Info A derail into one particular member's flavour of Libertarianism has been split to here.
Posted By:Agatha
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:11 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Nessie View Post
There is one solution, make guns inaccessible as possible for the wrong people. That is proven by other countries compared to the USA, which is an outlier in terms of lack of control of guns and the number of mass shootings and shootings of all kinds.
The problem that rarely gets mentioned in these conversations is that the US is an outlier in another area, i.e. Police shootings and police brutality. As a group, the police, with their legal near immunity and lack of accountability, have shown themselves more irresponsibility and dangerous than individuals. Limiting access to guns would only serve to give the police more power to abuse and make them more dangerous.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:15 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
Limiting access to guns would only serve to give the police more power to abuse and make them more dangerous.
How?
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:19 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by zooterkin View Post
Oh, yes.
Clearly the FBI did nothing with the reports in a direct attempt to make Trump look bad.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:19 PM   #131
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I'm not sure the US police exercise restraint on the basis that they might experience armed blowback. I imagine the reverse is true.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:19 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
The problem that rarely gets mentioned in these conversations is that the US is an outlier in another area, i.e. Police shootings and police brutality. As a group, the police, with their legal near immunity and lack of accountability, have shown themselves more irresponsibility and dangerous than individuals. Limiting access to guns would only serve to give the police more power to abuse and make them more dangerous.
I think you might be slightly exaggerating there, though some do seem to be nasty pieces of work.

How exactly does having tighter gun controls around what sort of citizens can legally obtain guns give the police more power to abuse?
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:20 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
How?
Huh? What do you mean how?
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:23 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
The problem that rarely gets mentioned in these conversations is that the US is an outlier in another area, i.e. Police shootings and police brutality. As a group, the police, with their legal near immunity and lack of accountability, have shown themselves more irresponsibility and dangerous than individuals. Limiting access to guns would only serve to give the police more power to abuse and make them more dangerous.
I'm thinking it would have the opposite affect. Police would not be able to cry gun and shoot nearly as often if guns were no longer an every day thing.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:23 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
How exactly does having tighter gun controls around what sort of citizens can legally obtain guns give the police more power to abuse?
I don't understand the question. How does it not give them more power?
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:25 PM   #136
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Originally Posted by kali1137 View Post
I'm thinking it would have the opposite affect. Police would not be able to cry gun and shoot nearly as often if guns were no longer an every day thing.
That's ridiculous. Guns would still be an everyday thing. The police would still have them. They could still plant them on people.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:26 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
I don't understand the question. How does it not give them more power?
You have made the claim

Justify it
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:27 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by Tsukasa Buddha View Post
How?
Just look at Cliven and Ammon Bundy. They stay nice and surrounded by armed folks and can do anything they want. The police are an irrelevance to them.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:30 PM   #139
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Originally Posted by cullennz View Post
You have made the claim

Justify it
No thanks. Don't believe that youre interested in discussion.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:31 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
That's ridiculous. Guns would still be an everyday thing. The police would still have them. They could still plant them on people.
The idea is to use registration and licensing to start reducing the supply moving into criminal circles.

As it stands, the prevalence of guns in the black market is incredibly damning of the poor state of regulation in the U.S. The great overwhelming majority of black market guns started out in legal hands.

So called "responsible" gun owners have done a terrible job of keeping guns away from criminals through poor security (allowing them to be stolen far too often and easily) and by opposition to background checks and registration that would severely reduce fraudulent transactions and straw purchases.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:32 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Ambrosia View Post
How many people need to die before something changes?
All of the USA, it seems. Which includes many of my friends.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:40 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by applecorped View Post
Has the gun debate been settled yet?
Yes. But regardless, the only thing that can stop a bad illegal immigrant with a gun is a good American with a gun.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:40 PM   #143
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Question

Originally Posted by crescent View Post
The idea is to use registration and licensing to start reducing the supply moving into criminal circles.

As it stands, the prevalence of guns in the black market is incredibly damning of the poor state of regulation in the U.S. The great overwhelming majority of black market guns started out in legal hands.

So called "responsible" gun owners have done a terrible job of keeping guns away from criminals through poor security (allowing them to be stolen far too often and easily) and by opposition to background checks and registration that would severely reduce fraudulent transactions and straw purchases.
It's not gun owners responsibility to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. I'm skeptical that such measures would keep criminals from getting guns. There are many prescription drugs that are tightly controlled, criminals still manage to get their hands on them. The issue is the fundamental corruption of the American system. If people with money want something, chances are they will be able to get it.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:41 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
I don't understand the question. How does it not give them more power?
Are you suggesting that an armed populace is somehow a counterbalance to an otherwise out-of-control policeforce? This sounds like some sort of dystopian nightmare.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:43 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Are you suggesting that an armed populace is somehow a counterbalance to an otherwise out-of-control policeforce? This sounds like some sort of dystopian nightmare.
A dystopian nightmare that humans have had to endure on occasion.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:43 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Are you suggesting that an armed populace is somehow a counterbalance to an otherwise out-of-control policeforce? This sounds like some sort of dystopian nightmare.
Except, paradoxically, the same people that are most pro-gun are usually the same that are police shooting apologists (for local and state police, FBI and ATF are jackbooted thugs, US Marshals, border patrol and homeland security are also OK).

Last edited by lobosrul5; 15th February 2018 at 12:45 PM.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:45 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Are you suggesting that an armed populace is somehow a counterbalance to an otherwise out-of-control policeforce? This sounds like some sort of dystopian nightmare.
I got bad news for you dude. We are already living in a dystopian nightmare.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:45 PM   #148
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Trump warns against, engages in inaction on shooting
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:46 PM   #149
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The guy is from Clearwater....already notorious for being the world headquarters of the Chruch of Scientology.
Wow, that place seems to be magnet for dangerous nutjobs....
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:47 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
It's not gun owners responsibility to keep guns out of the hands of criminals. I'm skeptical that such measures would keep criminals from getting guns. There are many prescription drugs that are tightly controlled, criminals still manage to get their hands on them. The issue is the fundamental corruption of the American system. If people with money want something, chances are they will be able to get it.
You want full legalization of drugs?

Guns seem the only issue in which conservatives feel that failure to obey the law means that the law should not exist.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:49 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by Cheetah View Post
Guns and their availability are obviously part of the problem but I don't think they can explain such high figures.
They totally can.

Quote:
When the world looks at the United States, it sees a land of exceptions: a time-tested if noisy democracy, a crusader in foreign policy, an exporter of beloved music and film.

But there is one quirk that consistently puzzles America’s fans and critics alike. Why, they ask, does it experience so many mass shootings?

Perhaps, some speculate, it is because American society is unusually violent. Or its racial divisions have frayed the bonds of society. Or its citizens lack proper mental care under a health care system that draws frequent derision abroad.

These explanations share one thing in common: Though seemingly sensible, all have been debunked by research on shootings elsewhere in the world. Instead, an ever-growing body of research consistently reaches the same conclusion.

The only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:49 PM   #152
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Originally Posted by William Parcher View Post
FBI was warned about alleged shooter nearly 5 months ago, tipster says



http://www.cnn.com/2018/02/15/us/nik...ned/index.html
Too soon to make any judgements, but you have to wonder how many tips like this the FBI gets, probably too many to check on them all.
And the other problem is until Cruz actually did something illegal, there is not much the FBI, or the local police can do..
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:49 PM   #153
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Originally Posted by Tony View Post
I got bad news for you dude. We are already living in a dystopian nightmare.
Dude? Did you just "dude" me?
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:51 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by lobosrul5 View Post
Except, paradoxically, the same people that are most pro-gun are usually the same that are police shooting apologists (for local and state police, FBI and ATF are jackbooted thugs, US Marshals, border patrol and homeland security are also OK).
Absolutely. Both "sides" go full retard on this issue. The people who are the most anti-police brutality and quick to call the police racist are the same ones who trust the police with a near monopoly on gun access.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:52 PM   #155
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Originally Posted by dudalb View Post
Too soon to make any judgements, but you have to wonder how many tips like this the FBI gets, probably too many to check on them all.
And the other problem is until Cruz actually did something illegal, there is not much the FBI, or the local police can do..
We had a smaller school shooting in New Mexico 2 months ago. Same situation, police investigated, but they weren't allowed to take away his weapons (or prevent his purchase of any in that case).

https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/08/us/az...son/index.html
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:54 PM   #156
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Originally Posted by crescent View Post
You want full legalization of drugs?
Yes

Quote:
Guns seem the only issue in which conservatives feel that failure to obey the law means that the law should not exist.
I agree. The issue of guns in general makes for a lot of hypocrisy on the conservative side.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:55 PM   #157
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Originally Posted by MikeG View Post
Dude? Did you just "dude" me?
It was either "dude" or "bitch". I went with the most offensive one. 😜
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:55 PM   #158
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The face of murderous criminal insanity.


https://media.tmz.com/2018/02/15/021...mug-shot-2.jpg
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Old 15th February 2018, 01:08 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by kali1137 View Post
I'm thinking it would have the opposite affect. Police would not be able to cry gun and shoot nearly as often if guns were no longer an every day thing.
This.
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Old 15th February 2018, 01:08 PM   #160
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HuffPost is saying white supremacist.
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